Durst Laborator 184 --Help!!

[o.gok]

Hi,
We are trying to repair the enlarger we have it in school. The last repair was done by the guy who repaired the metaform processor of the school. He is quite old and we couldn't find anyone who is up for the job.
The system we have is Durst color laborator 184, with EST 301 power supply and Tim 1000 Timer.

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A couple of months ago, when I was using the machine the bulb burnt out and whatever lamp we tried afterward immediately burnt out.
We first suspected the power supply. But the timer was checked by an electrician and it didn't pass the inspection.
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We recently tried a new timer, not a Durst but a Hauck branded one. As we run out of bulbs we couldn't try it. But we measured to voltage with a voltmeter and it reads 150 Volts. Do you think that is the problem? I guess we should have a reading of 120 volts. And if that's the problem shall we fix or replace the power supply?
We think someone modified the sockets, as the enlarger now takes 300 W ELH lamps.

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We would really appreciate any leads!

[o.gok]

Connections to EST 301:

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Hauck timer:
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[o.gok]

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?141873-CLS-301-Restoration&p=1410348&viewfull=1#post1410348

hmm maybe try with two lamps, and problem will be solved?

[Drew Wiley]

ELH is the correct bulb for a CLS301 colorhead intended for USA usage. But you need both in place or the unit will not function properly. And I recommend replacing both at the same time. I prefer to use a modern 750W Gralab timer. If there's an issue with the power supply itself, you might have a real headache; replacements aren't available, and fishing around for a used one might just introduce more of the same kind of problems. What I do is dispense with the power supply entirely, route the cooling fan directly to a 240V outlet, and segregate the color head itself to a dedicated 115V line, with the timer connected to that. Test your outlets first with a good volt meter, to make sure they're within tight specification. But just try fresh bulbs first.

[ic-racer]

EST301 repair instructions (Deutsch)
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[ic-racer]

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[ic-racer]

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[ic-racer]

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[Oslolens]

If the Durst is used for b&w only (I suspect not), skip the fan, use a normal timer, a correct power supply and LEDs, either 5m of strips inside a tube or cone or a roof fixture of correct diameter.

Big Wehman, Toyo 5x7" and a small Chamonix

[o.gok]

ELH is the correct bulb for a CLS301 colorhead intended for USA usage. But you need both in place or the unit will not function properly. And I recommend replacing both at the same time. I prefer to use a modern 750W Gralab timer. If there's an issue with the power supply itself, you might have a real headache; replacements aren't available, and fishing around for a used one might just introduce more of the same kind of problems. What I do is dispense with the power supply entirely, route the cooling fan directly to a 240V outlet, and segregate the color head itself to a dedicated 115V line, with the timer connected to that. Test your outlets first with a good volt meter, to make sure they're within tight specification. But just try fresh bulbs first.

Thanks Drew. Yes we have the CLS 301 colorhead. We were using 120V, 300 watt lamps. They are not so hard to find in Germany and they cost around 12 euros. The EST 301 has 120 V output, and that's how we were able to use the lamps.

If the new lamps don't work, hence we have a problem with the power supply how can we connect the head to the 120V line (We will need a transformer for that as the mains is 240V here)? The connection seems proprietary?
Colorhead 120V:

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[Oslolens]

240 to 115 volt supply is common. Just has to be big enough, and not to big. Connections can be moved over. Available on rs-online from 25VA to 5kVA

Big Wehman, Toyo 5x7" and a small Chamonix

[o.gok]

If the Durst is used for b&w only (I suspect not), skip the fan, use a normal timer, a correct power supply and LEDs, either 5m of strips inside a tube or cone or a roof fixture of correct diameter.

Big Wehman, Toyo 5x7" and a small Chamonix

It is mostly used for RA4 process.
Could you please share the setup you have? What is the timer and power supply that you are using?

[o.gok]

240 to 115 volt supply is common. Just has to be big enough, and not to big. Connections can be moved over. Available on rs-online from 25VA to 5kVA

Big Wehman, Toyo 5x7" and a small Chamonix

sorry for double posting. It seemed the messages didn't post and then they did. And what is the power supply and the timer that you are using? Just curious, also I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

[o.gok]

also I guess it is a good idea to check the sockets:
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?137740-Ilford-500-Bulb-Blowing-Blues&p=1380920&viewfull=1#post1380920
(https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?137740-Ilford-500-Bulb-Blowing-Blues&p=1380920&viewfull=1#post1380920)


Sockets?

One of my D5500's was blowing bulbs. Oxidation in the lamp socket produced an intermittent low voltage. That power supply has a PWM stabilization circuit. I suspect some low voltage at the socket caused the thyristors to open all the way. Since the thyristors are right on the mains, the 81V lamp could get a jolt of 120V.

This is a different head, but I guess it still makes sense.

[Oslolens]

It is mostly used for RA4 process.
Could you please share the setup you have? What is the timer and power supply that you are using?240 to 115 volt supply is common. Just has to be big enough, and not to big. Connections can be moved over. Available on rs-online from 25VA to 50kVA.
Sorry, mine is B&W: cold head with two small 230 to 115 trafo, on for the lamp and one for the heater. Timer is normal.
For RA4 process, you could use high quality LED, but sufficient watts, the high output LED need cooling, but maybe not a fan. Several amateurs have done this for b&w, but if they do color heads, I think they use red, green and blue LEDs. Do a search online, you might end up there anyway.

Big Wehman, Toyo 5x7" and a small Chamonix

[o.gok]

240 to 115 volt supply is common. Just has to be big enough, and not to big. Connections can be moved over. Available on rs-online from 25VA to 50kVA.
Sorry, mine is B&W: cold head with two small 230 to 115 trafo, on for the lamp and one for the heater. Timer is normal.
For RA4 process, you could use high quality LED, but sufficient watts, the high output LED need cooling, but maybe not a fan. Several amateurs have done this for b&w, but if they do color heads, I think they use red, green and blue LEDs. Do a search online, you might end up there anyway.

Big Wehman, Toyo 5x7" and a small Chamonix


Thanks!
I will have an update when the new bulbs arrive next week.

[ic-racer]

Drew gives good advice to get this running if the power supply can't be repaired.

[Drew Wiley]

DO NOT omit the coollng fan under any circumstances!! That would be a great way to prematurely age the filters and certain other things too. Although these filters don't fade per se, overheating them will lead to the coatings progressively spalling off. Spectral sensitivity also shifts when dichroic filters overheat and will affect color repeatability. In terms of rewiring the circuits independently and bypassing the power supply, you can use most of the original wiring in the head itself, but need to trace which apply to the 115 circuit simply by tracing them with a continuity tester from the appropriate plug and labeling the end of the respective lines with colored electrical tape. You might have to omit certain minor amenities like the tiny lamps which optionally light up the colorhead dials (I don't like them on anyway). Do you have motorized focus and height on your unit? If so, you'll also need to see which voltage that runs on. Hopefully, you won't need to rewire. But another option would be a generic dual-voltage power supply. These are common but need to be consistent within plus or minus about 5 volts, just as your outlets should.

[Oslolens]

DO NOT omit the coollng fan under any circumstances!! That would be a great way to prematurely age the filters and certain other things too. Although these filters don't fade per se, overheating them will lead to the coatings progressively spalling off. Spectral sensitivity also shifts when dichroic filters overheat and will affect color repeatability. In terms of rewiring the circuits independently and bypassing the power supply, you can use most of the original wiring in the head itself, but need to trace which apply to the 115 circuit simply by tracing them with a continuity tester from the appropriate plug and labeling the end of the respective lines with colored electrical tape. You might have to omit certain minor amenities like the tiny lamps which optionally light up the colorhead dials (I don't like them on anyway). Do you have motorized focus and height on your unit? If so, you'll also need to see which voltage that runs on. Hopefully, you won't need to rewire. But another option would be a generic dual-voltage power supply. These are common but need to be consistent within plus or minus about 5 volts, just as your outlets should.Agree, except if you have 5x3W of LED with most of the heat going up, instead of 100s of W going through filters.

Big Wehman, Toyo 5x7" and a small Chamonix

[o.gok]

So we could only try the setup today.
We put two ELH lamps. We connected the timer but it wasn't turned on. The fan was connected directly to the mains and it was working.
When we turned on the EST 301 both lights turned on. And after 20 secs the light on left blew, and shortly after the right one.

When we measured the voltage on the socket it read 150 volts.
I guess we will try to find the problem by checking the EST 301 first, and then the wires and the socket.
What could be faulty besides the power supply and the wires?

[Luis-F-S]

After you fix the voltage issue, you may wish to try ENH bulbs instead of ELH. 150 hours vs 35 hours to failure, but 250 w instead of 300 watts. That's how I lamped my CLS 301 head and how I presently lamp my DeVere 5108 head. A very minor loss of light vs a 4x increase in lamp life. You can possibly also find NOS bulbs cheaper at the auction site.

[Drew Wiley]

First, double-check your actual line voltage fluctuations. Look for corrosion in any plugs or sockets, including in the lamp position. Then you might have to address some flawed element in the power supply itself and either fix that, find another power supply, or bypass the whole thing with direct line voltage. I'm not an electronics hobbyist; and some of these old power supplies are on the verge of any number of things potentially going wrong with them, so prefer not to tangle with the problem directly.

[gary mulder]

Try running the two lamps in series directly to the mains. Or in series with conrad.de part 190516. (The lamps still in series.) You will need a true rms voltmeter to adjust the pwm to the right voltage.