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John Brady
5-May-2019, 10:38
I have had all types of cameras over the years. I am shooting a lot of 8x10 but I am always drawn back to the 5x8 format. My current set up is an 8x10 Ebony 810slw with i custom made 5x8 reducing back that Hiromi created for me back when he was still building cameras. I am able to use a SA 72XL but on a recessed board, which is not pleasant, but it works.

I have ten 5x8 film holders built by Chamonix, that are very nice.

My goal would be to find a dedicated 5x8 that would be non folding, have rise and fall and focus the 72XL on a flat board. The camera needs to be as light as possible yet sturdy, I work in some pretty extreme conditions in the Everglades and surrounding swamps.

In the past, I have owned a 5x8 chamonix that was a well built camera but the 72 was too wide for it, the front rail was visible in the image.

Shen Hao builds the TFC58-B, which is their wooden 5x8 camera. Jeff at Badger Graphic inquired for me about it's ability to utilize the 72xl and they told him it wouldn't.

I have contacted Fotoman in China, they have offered to build a camera based on their 45sps that they tell me will work with the 72xl and my film holders. That is great of them to offer and may be the best thing for me to try. It would be like a point and shoot 5x8 with a hyperlocal lens adapter with rise and fall. I am just concerned about the language barrier and fully understanding at the end of the day that this will not vignette or do anything strange. I'm also not clear on weather or not it will have a Graflok type back that will allow me to compose the image.

I have considered scrapping the whole idea and just get a Walker Titan 5x7, but I would really like 5x8.

Anyway, if any of you have a suggestions of a camera that is already out there or a company that can build what I am looking for please let me know. Or if you would just like to discuss the format.

John
www.timeandlight.com

Oren Grad
5-May-2019, 13:41
Thinking out loud...

I wonder whether Richard Ritter could build something for you - either a non-folding bellows camera or a box camera with a sliding front, with the lens put into helical mount. If you're willing to dedicate it to the 72XL, a box camera could be pretty compact.

Also if you're inclined more toward the wide end, perhaps someone can make you an expansion back for the 5x7 Titan XL. But the Titan XL in that format is fairly heavy even without an expansion back, though certainly lighter than your Ebony.

Pere Casals
5-May-2019, 15:26
Walker Titan 5x7, but I would really like 5x8.

The most practical choice would be shooting 5x7" and then discarting two 8mm strips in the long sides, to have 4.375x7", which is exactly the same aspect ratio than 5x8". The 8mm strips can be painted in the GG or even a mask can be placed in the inside so the negative would take 4.375".

Sure you are to enlarge/scan and anyway a 4.375x7" negative would have an insane amount of image quality. Having the 5x8 aspect it's quite easy, but if wanting the camera...

Ken Lee
5-May-2019, 15:34
OOPS - Pere provided the same answer already

You can also apply some easily removable painter's tape to your 5x7 ground glass to render the same aspect ratio as 5x8. I've done that often.

Given the clear film edge, 5x7 is roughly 4.75 x 6.75 inches.

5/8 * 6.75 = 4.22 inches. If you round that up to 4.25 you basically need to lose 1/2 inch from 4.75 to get the narrower format. You can either apply a 1/2 inch piece of tape at the top or bottom, or a 1/4 inch piece of tape on both top and bottom.

Again due to the clear film edge when we shoot with a 5x8 camera we're really shooting 4.75 x 7.75 but this should be close enough.

Luis-F-S
5-May-2019, 15:41
Not to point out the obvious, but you can also use one of the splitters in a Deardorff V8 to make two 5x8 negatives on an 8x10 sheet of film. You'd need an 8x10 enlarger to print it, using the method above allows you to use a 5x7 enlarger. Or you could just get that 5x7 Titan. L

B.S.Kumar
5-May-2019, 16:19
Or crop using a Rittreck 5x10 expansion back?

Kumar

Michael Roberts
5-May-2019, 17:00
Awesome photos on your site, John. Since you already have the holders, I second your attempt to find a dedicated 5x8 camera. I’m with you on the 60% aspect ratio.

Am I correct in thinking you primarily shoot in landscape mode? How would you feel about a dedicated landscape mode camera, I.e. one w/o a reversible back?

Also, what are the dimensions of your holders? I’m thinking 6 1/2 x 9 1/2” o/s dimensions for the camera might work...

A couple of other options would be to put an expansion back on a 5x7 camera or put a reduction back on a whole plate camera.

John Brady
5-May-2019, 17:30
Thinking out loud...

I wonder whether Richard Ritter could build something for you - either a non-folding bellows camera or a box camera with a sliding front, with the lens put into helical mount. If you're willing to dedicate it to the 72XL, a box camera could be pretty compact.

Also if you're inclined more toward the wide end, perhaps someone can make you an expansion back for the 5x7 Titan XL. But the Titan XL in that format is fairly heavy even without an expansion back, though certainly lighter than your Ebony.

Thanks Oren, Richard Ritter is a good suggestion! I've never handled the Walker Titan so I hadn't thought about it being heavy, I just liked the fact that it handles the 72 well.

John Brady
5-May-2019, 17:33
Awesome photos on your site, John. Since you already have the holders, I second your attempt to find a dedicated 5x8 camera. I’m with you on the 60% aspect ratio.

Am I correct in thinking you primarily shoot in landscape mode? How would you feel about a dedicated landscape mode camera, I.e. one w/o a reversible back?

Also, what are the dimensions of your holders? I’m thinking 6 1/2 x 9 1/2” o/s dimensions for the camera might work...

A couple of other options would be to put an expansion back on a 5x7 camera or put a reduction back on a whole plate camera.


Thanks Michael, yes, I stick with horizontal for the most part in this format, I'm okay with a non convertible back, I can always flop the ball head on the tripod. My goal here is low weight and simplicity.

Michael Roberts
5-May-2019, 17:56
John, do you use other lenses besides the 72? If so, what's the longest?

I'm just wondering if you need anything beyond a bag bellows?

I dig low weight and simplicity, too. My fav 5x7 right now is a modified Cycle Poco No. 3. Weighs less than 2lbs w/o lens. Landscape mode (with additional tripod socket for portrait), with front rise and shift (rise for portraits). This camera could be modified for a drop bed to avoid vignetting your 72XL, but it's 5x7, not 5x8, so I'm not suggesting it would work for you. But the design might work for you.

Oren Grad
5-May-2019, 19:34
I've never handled the Walker Titan so I hadn't thought about it being heavy, I just liked the fact that it handles the 72 well.

I should have reported the weight so you can decide for yourself whether it's too much: the camera is specified at 6.6 lb.

John Brady
6-May-2019, 04:19
John, do you use other lenses besides the 72? If so, what's the longest?

I'm just wondering if you need anything beyond a bag bellows?

I dig low weight and simplicity, too. My fav 5x7 right now is a modified Cycle Poco No. 3. Weighs less than 2lbs w/o lens. Landscape mode (with additional tripod socket for portrait), with front rise and shift (rise for portraits). This camera could be modified for a drop bed to avoid vignetting your 72XL, but it's 5x7, not 5x8, so I'm not suggesting it would work for you. But the design might work for you.

For this project, I’m going for simplicity. The 72xl is all I am planning to use. I already have my 8x10 and a wide assortment of lenses. This will bee my swamp camera, I go as wide as possible to capture the environment.

I’ve never heard of the Cycle Poco, under 2lbs has got to be a joy!

John Brady
6-May-2019, 04:38
I should have reported the weight so you can decide for yourself whether it's too much: the camera is specified at 6.6 lb.

That seems pretty heavy! Looks like a great camera but maybe not for this project.

John Brady
6-May-2019, 04:43
Zach at Mercury Camera Works has offered to modify his new 5x7 to accept my 5x8 holders.
http://mercurycamera.com/new-product-announcement-5x7-is-here/

This could be a great solution for a single purpose camera!

Greg
6-May-2019, 04:51
In the past, I have owned a 5x8 chamonix that was a well built camera but the 72 was too wide for it, the front rail was visible in the image.

A while back remember corresponding with a photographer in southern Asia who was using a Hologon on an 11x14 Chamonix that Chamonix had modified to take his ultra wide angle lens. I would think that Chamonix could easily modify their 5x8 Chamonix to take your SA 72XL. Hugo?
FYI several years back when I went to use my 5.9” No. 5 Gray Periscope for the first time on my newly acquired 11x14 Chamonix had the same problem as you did with the front rail visible in the image and the camera not being able to focus at infinity... On probably the second time of trying to use my 5.9” No. 5 Gray Periscope on the 11x14, the solution became terribly obvious to me: just move the rear standard forward!!!

Pere Casals
6-May-2019, 06:22
Zach at Mercury Camera Works has offered to modify his new 5x7 to accept my 5x8 holders.
http://mercurycamera.com/new-product-announcement-5x7-is-here/

This could be a great solution for a single purpose camera!


This is a lightweight travel camera, but with a lack of movements...

But, to me, it looks that many wooden 57 cameras can be easily modified to accept 58, this is machining the rear window make it grow 12.7mm in each short side (receptacle and GG frame). I guess that many cameras have the rear frames big enough to allow the conversion, perhaps some alluminium platings can be bolted to reinforce the machined sides. Probably many 57 bellows may work for a 58 modification, if not some angled platings in the sides may separate the bellows.

190992

This can be done with simple tools:

190993

I guess that a good carpenter would do an excellent job by just spending 2 or 3 hours, with all polished and with all finishings, but additional work may required to reinforce the sides with metal platings.

Michael Roberts
6-May-2019, 08:08
Pere, I agree!

John, are you willing to give up front rise? If so, the Mercury fixed point and shoot may be just what you need.

Oren Grad
6-May-2019, 09:54
For this project, I’m going for simplicity. The 72xl is all I am planning to use. I already have my 8x10 and a wide assortment of lenses. This will bee my swamp camera, I go as wide as possible to capture the environment.

If this is going to be a dedicated ultrawide camera, that makes a box camera especially attractive - it can be rugged, very fast and easy to set up, but in that format and focal length still quite lightweight.

FWIW, I have an 8x10 Hobo with the 120 SA which I had modified by adding a focus helical and a real ground glass. A mini-version of that in 5x7 with the 72 SA-XL would be a really sweet camera.

Corran
6-May-2019, 10:59
Pere, I agree!

John, are you willing to give up front rise? If so, the Mercury fixed point and shoot may be just what you need.

John,

I actually have a Mercury 5x7 custom built for the 72mm XL. Zach also made for me the focus scale I calculated and it works perfectly.

To be honest, I haven't used it much yet due to time constraints and not finding the right subject, but it's a fine camera.

I can understand your want for rise so as to alleviate keystoning, but I would guess you'd run out of image circle fairly quickly anyway, so if the Mercury works, it would be a great and economical solution.

I don't have any current plans, but I do often travel down to south GA and sometimes FL for various reasons, so I could possibly get the Mercury in your hands to try sometime? Let me know. PS - love your work, as I've told you in the past! I am glad to see you back shooting film.

John Brady
6-May-2019, 17:01
Pere, I agree!

John, are you willing to give up front rise? If so, the Mercury fixed point and shoot may be just what you need.

Michael, I am definitely interested in front rise and fall. Zach at Mercury thinks he can accommodate that. Worst case scenario, I thought about a fixed front lens panel with rise built in, it could be flipped over to create fall. Not ideal but could work. I think I am giving the Mercury a go, could be a great solution. I will keep you all posted.

John Brady
6-May-2019, 17:02
If this is going to be a dedicated ultrawide camera, that makes a box camera especially attractive - it can be rugged, very fast and easy to set up, but in that format and focal length still quite lightweight.

FWIW, I have an 8x10 Hobo with the 120 SA which I had modified by adding a focus helical and a real ground glass. A mini-version of that in 5x7 with the 72 SA-XL would be a really sweet camera.

Yes Oren, I agree, that would be a sweet camera!

Oren Grad
6-May-2019, 17:03
I think I am giving the Mercury a go, could be a great solution. I will keep you all posted.

Please do, will be very interested to hear about it.

John Brady
6-May-2019, 17:07
John,

I actually have a Mercury 5x7 custom built for the 72mm XL. Zach also made for me the focus scale I calculated and it works perfectly.

To be honest, I haven't used it much yet due to time constraints and not finding the right subject, but it's a fine camera.

I can understand your want for rise so as to alleviate keystoning, but I would guess you'd run out of image circle fairly quickly anyway, so if the Mercury works, it would be a great and economical solution.

I don't have any current plans, but I do often travel down to south GA and sometimes FL for various reasons, so I could possibly get the Mercury in your hands to try sometime? Let me know. PS - love your work, as I've told you in the past! I am glad to see you back shooting film.

Very kind of you to offer, I get up to North Florida and Georgia sometime too, maybe we can meet up? Good chance I will have the Mercury by then and we'll take the pair out shooting!
There is actually a fair amount of rise and fall available at f32 on my current 5x8 set up with the 72xl. I think it will be limited by the Mercury more than the lens?

Thank you for the kind words by the way!

Luis-F-S
6-May-2019, 18:06
Attached are two 5x7 Deardorff backs one is for a V5 and the other a reducing back for the V8. Both seem to have enough meat where you could enlarge the opening from 6.5 to 7.5" which is what would be required for 5x8. You'd loose the slots for the sliders, but there's no such thing as a Free Lunch!

V5 5x7 back

191031

V8 5x7 reducing back

191032

Corran
6-May-2019, 18:19
Very kind of you to offer, I get up to North Florida and Georgia sometime too, maybe we can meet up? Good chance I will have the Mercury by then and we'll take the pair out shooting!
There is actually a fair amount of rise and fall available at f32 on my current 5x8 set up with the 72xl. I think it will be limited by the Mercury more than the lens?

Thank you for the kind words by the way!

That'd be great! I know a couple locations near Jennings, FL you might like on the Alapaha River. Also, we've got a good group of LFers up here in north GA and I also have started an arts group and am looking for speakers/presenters....

I have been meaning to try the 72XL on 4x10 so I am definitely hoping it's got a bit more IC than expected. I've only used it on 4x5 with extensive movements and never found the edge of the IC so I am not surprised there's a lot left to play with on your 5x8. The Mercury internally is pretty tight but Zach is great and I'm sure he might have some tricks up his sleeve for allowing some movement.

John Brady
8-May-2019, 06:06
191106 191105 191107

Here is a look at my current set up for 5x8 on my 8x10, it works but not a very elegant solution. While Ebony was still in business, I was able to get Hiromi to build this beautiful 5x8 reducing back for my 810slw.

The other thing I am hoping to do is loose the recessed lens board. This is my 72xl, kind of amazing to be able to focus it on an 8x10 camera. I am able to cover 5x8 and still utilize some rise and fall.

The Ebony 810slw will focus my 90xl on a flat lens board, a bit of vignetting on 8x10 with that set up though.

I'm still working with 8x10 but looking to simplify difficult hikes in the swamp.

www.timeandlight.com

Luis-F-S
8-May-2019, 09:38
191106 191105 191107

Here is a look at my current set up for 5x8 on my 8x10, it works but not a very elegant solution. While Ebony was still in business, I was able to get Hiromi to build this beautiful 5x8 reducing back for my 810slw.

www.timeandlight.com
I’m sure Richard Ritter could make one if asked.