Glossy Fiber Based Paper Choice

[Luis-F-S]

Oriental Seagull or Ilford? Haven't used Seagull in many years, your thoughts on the two papers? Thanks, L

[Ulophot]

I can't speak to the Seagull, having never used it. The Ilford now (as of when, I don't know; I was out of the darkroom until recently for nearly 15 years) has a glossier surface than it used to, in case that has import for your work.

[Fred L]

I've been using the Oriental lately and it's not a bad paper. Still nailing down selenium toning with it but I like how it looks in Formulary 130. I will say though that I prefer Bergger Prestige Neutral over the Oriental. The price of Oriental is attractive however. Haven't used Ilford papers in years so can't speak to that for comparison.

[Alan9940]

I tried the Oriental and didn't like it at all. My favorites nowadays are Ilford MG Classic, Ilford MGWT, and Foma 111 Variant.

[Greg Y]

Luis, I also use (Formulary) Ansco 130 & selenium tone. I've had good results with the new Oriental. I also use Ilford MG Classic & Warmtone, as well as Foma Variant iii. I select the paper based on the negative & the look I'm going for. I've liked Bergger as well, but it's at the top of the price market, & since they have the paper made for them, instead of being a manufacturer, you can't be sure when it's going to change.

[Drew Wiley]

For those of us who once did a lot of printing on the old Seagull G graded bromide papers and other classic graded papers of the past, the performance of current neo-Oriental paper seems quite anemic. I guess it all depends upon your budget and expectations. Any premium quality paper is going to be relatively expensive; and nowadays, it most likely to be VC. But among those premium options I'd include Ilford MGWT, Agfa MCC, and Bergger papers. Ilford has certain other papers I like too. A lot depends on what kind of image tone you are after.

[Greg Y]

Drew, when I say Bergger is at the top of the price chain;(B&H prices here) 50 sheets of 20x24 Ilford WT is $360 US, while 50 sheets (2 boxes of 25) of 20x24 Bergger VCCB is $480 USD...& up here north of the 49th parallel with an additional 37% exchange rate.... for me the price difference is not exactly chump change....even with B&H free shipping....

[Drew Wiley]

Here Bergger is sold in 25-sheet boxes just like Adox MCC. But per sheet of neutral tone it is less than MGWT, and for warmtone, just a tiny bit more. It can be hard to acquire sometimes. Add-ons to cost can be hard to predict. Here in the US there will probably soon be a tariff imposed on breathing air arriving via the jet stream.

[Greg Y]

"a tiny bit more" Hmm.... Freestyle has Bergger 20x24x 25 sheets @ $239.99 same as east coast prices & Ilford WT is $359 for 50. Any way I look at its $120 USD/ 50sheets more....so above my pay grade. And i'm with you on the graded papers of yore. I just finished some prints on Forte Fortezo & i can't get that look in modern papers...

[Drew Wiley]

It's all relative. This afternoon I'm making a color print on Fujiflex Supergloss, which only comes in a thousand dollar roll. Thankfully, my roll has kept its color balance well for several years now, as I slice off a bit of it at a time. But black and white premium papers often save one money because you're less likely to waste paper getting from Point A to B than using cheaper options, at least in my experience. My one gripe with Bergger is that it doesn't spot (retouch) as easily as Ilford. What is giving me a real headache in expense is rag museum board. It's sure gone up in recent years, and I need a lot of it.

[Tim V]

I love Bergger semi-gloss CB warmtone. Beautiful ivory base and tone. I use it with formulary 130.

[Drew Wiley]

I've been experimenting with Bergger neutral tone to achieve true cold tone images. And while amidol is the most direct path to get there, what gives the most consistent cold tone is actually via more finely dividing the silver via 130, then gold toning the print. I've obtained prints this way quite reminiscent of the deep rich tones once typical of Seagull G; but Bergger is easier to print overall due to the VC feature. The DMax is not quite as deep as certain premium warm tone papers like MGWT, but is nonetheless outstanding and better than any current cold tone option. It's somewhat richer, for example, from the venerated Polygrade V, which could also be tweaked to a true cold tone. And it's punchier than Ilford MG Cooltone, which is a wonderfully silvery paper in its own right.