matt or gloss paper for colour prints

[adrian tyler]

i have been producing large format test prints (over 50" wide) on both matt and gloss paper, wilst i realise that much has to do with how the photographer envisiges the final print, there are however, independantly of final esthetics, pros and cons for each surface.

gloss paper (espcially at these sizes) produces reflections which even good illumiation can't remove, which compromises in some way the "depth" of the print with it's deep blacks etc. putting anti glare glass in front at these sizes is very expensive and not at all practical if the thing has to travel.

matt paper solves the reflection problems but kills you blacks and generally produces a flatter print, i don't know if putting glass in front would bring this information back, but i kind of defeats the purose anyway...

are these compromises something we have to live with? am i missing something?

thanks

[julian_4860]

Hi Adrian,
diasec or plexi brings it back... how were the scans?

[Mark Sampson]

Well, a matte surface disperses the reflected light, so it cannot reflect as deep a black as a glossy surface can. In b/w, there have been many paper surfaces, and many treatments available to let the photographer choose their print surface qualities. In color, a more mechanized process, the options are fewer. In my former career as a color printer, at least 90% of the prints I made were on matte paper (Kodak N). Just about all of my own color photographs have been printed the same way- but that's the way I see color. The 'F' surface was just too shiny. Certainly the newest color papers have a higher d-max, and I have no problem getting a believeable black in my prints. Digitally, of course, you're at the mercy of what the printer designers and paper-makers think. Paul Strand used to varnish his prints to get the surface and reflectance he wanted... perhaps a non-traditional approach like that might provise an answer.

[adrian tyler]

thanks for the help, julian, would there be a big finish difference to a plexiglassed print if the paper were matt or gloss?

interesting comment about varnish mark, my wife has a restoration studio and they actualy have a varnishing room and in some cases make the varnishes themselves, but they apply to oil paintings, still i'll study the theme...

[julian_4860]

The matte would be fine. The plexi adds a luminosity and a perceived increase in dmax IMO. Maud Gran Formato in Barcelona does diasec and will put a frame around the dibond/diasec

[ronald moravec]

I just did a glossy black locomotive for my employer. Fresh mint right off the assembly line. It looks deep black where light was of minimal reflection, and "lighter black" in other areas. All the sheetmetal panel lines were visable and the whole effect was very realistic.

Film used was Portra 160 VC printed on N surface Kodak Profesional Portrait N by a competent wedding lab. 6x7 roll film back on 4x5.

If you want it punched up more, use more contrasty and/or higher contrast film and print on commercial rather than portrait paper.

[paul stimac]

Chris Jordan seems to have come up with a good compromise:

http://largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/topic/503590.html

[adrian tyler]

thanks paul that look interesting too, i have face mouted matt print onto the matt plexi and my blacks lost their punch, but i'll test chris approach gloss print to matt plexi...

[Sitron]

I'm glad to hear about Paul Strand varnishing his prints, I didn't know that. I've just started shellacing my prints. I print b+w with an inkjet, and the shellac gives it the depth and amount of gloss i want. It also has a warm cast to it, which is similar to the warm tone papers I use to use. It's the closest I've gotten to a "real" print since I got rid of my darkroom. The shellac should be waxed after it's dry, so nothing sticks to it. As for doing this on a print as large as 50", I don't know. Good luck!

[Mark Sampson]

FWIW, the photographic conservators I know have used the word "nightmare" to describe Strand's varnished prints. Apparently there's a serious yellowing problem, among other things. I should have mentioned that in my first post, I guess.

[adrian tyler]

yes, the yellowing occurs because the varnish oxidises (rusts), and the dislovents used to get rid of the varnish are not very "print friendly"!