Wanting to try ADOX MCC 110 - any advice?

[m00dawg]

I see ADOX MCP 310 is now available (their resin papers) but I've been thinking of perhaps trying out their fiber papers - MCC 110 or 112. The trouble is they seem to be a bit harder to come by. I can special order a box of 5x7 and 8x10 but only in 100 sheet counts which hits the pocketbook a bit hard given I haven't used fiber papers before and haven't used any ADOX paper. Their RC papers are available on Freestyle and are much cheaper than the fiber but I figured it might be time to give fiber a try.

Anyone have any thoughts on the MCC paper? I tried searching around here and other places to get an idea and couldn't really find a whole lot of info there. I currently use Ilford RC papers (neutral and cooltone) and definitely like them - I just thought I'd try a different brand to see how things went (and also try out fiber).

Just kinda torn on spending that much on the paper. I certainly can buy a box of 5x7 first but 8x10 was a bit more convenient to cut up for doing contact prints for initial paper testing. I'm looking for a neutral paper generally.

Any ideas?

[Robert Opheim]

I have been enlarging on the ADOX MCC 110 paper in 8x10, 11x14, and 16x20 sizes. A great paper much like Agfa Brovira was. I only print on fiber.

[koraks]

I've gone through a few boxes of MCC110 in 5x7 and 8x10. It's a straightforward, dependable paper that just works regardless of what developer I've thrown at it. It doesn't shift color much in selenium toner, although like with any paper, any green cast is neutralized. However, the paper gives fairly neutral tones even without selenium toner. Everyone has their own preferences, but I'd say it's unlikely you'd be dissatisfied with the purchase of a box of this paper. It just works, and very well at that.

[Andrew Tymon]

Have you used fibre before? There is certainly a difference in the look between fibre and R.c. paper and processing is different too but well worth trying. Freestyle say their small packs of Mcc110 are out of stock until may 24th. https://www.freestylephoto.biz/156572-Adox-Premium-MCC-110-VC-FB-5x7-25-Sheets-Glossy

[m00dawg]

Thanks all! Good info! Andrew, I haven't used fiber before no. Which was one thing that gave me pause for buying 100 sheet boxes. Freestyle has the RC papers in stock but not many (any?) of the fibers. B&H is the opposite weirdly, but requires a 7-14 day special order (and even then I can only get 100 count boxes). I could wait for Freestyle but May 24th is over a month away and I'm hoping to some new photos I'd like to print with before then.

That's sorta what I'm trying to balance - investing big into fiber with these 100 count boxes or doing something else such as buying their RC papers perhaps, or trying Ilfords various fiber papers, etc. and perhaps get smaller count boxes (25 and 50) to avoid a big initial investment.

I'm certainly leaning towards just getting the Adox fiber paper. Their newly re-released CHS ii is a beautiful film so that plus the opinions in this thread, give me some confidence it will be a great paper to use. I know Ilford papers are good and dependable but I just wanted to see what paper was like from a smaller company like Adox. I thought about Bergger too but I'm holding off just because Pancro 400 has been such a tough film for me to figure out.

[Sal Santamaura]

...B&H is the opposite weirdly, but requires a 7-14 day special order (and even then I can only get 100 count boxes)...B&H puts up that generic "7-14 days" but gets all its Adox from Freestyle, so it would likely be 7-14 days after Freestyle receives its shipment that your paper reached B&H. Order from Freestyle or Fotoimpex.

[William Whitaker]

https://www.alanrossphotography.com/notes-on-the-new-adox-mcc-110-fb-paper/

[m00dawg]

Hmm good point about BH. I previous had gone to Fotoimpex to see about getting CHS and found shipping was crazy so I had written it off. Turns out though that ordering paper from there is about the same price with shipping and the shipping prices don't seem to increase when I add more stuff which is great since I want to buy another box of CHS anyway.

Thanks for that link William! I've read that and it was a good sign but didn't really give me any visual queues to know how those tests might translate to prints. Does seem to show, if I'm reading his graph right, that the paper does indeed have some nice dynamic range to it.

[Larry Gebhardt]

His graph shows that the paper will print at about the same contrast as Ilford MultiGrade without a filter. Using full magenta filtration (removing green and leaving blue light) it isn't quite as hard as MG and with full yellow (removing blue and leaving green) it is much softer than MG. So if you have very contrasty negatives that you can't print on MG even at the lowest grade it might work better for you, but at the other extreme for very soft negatives it will not get as contrasty. His chart doesn't show the curve shape at the extremes which is worth knowing as there are some weird contrast behaviors with some papers at the extremes (all blue or green light). While interesting it's likely not a deciding factor since you'll print using the middle grades because you of course develop and expose correctly ;)

[m00dawg]

... it's likely not a deciding factor since you'll print using the middle grades because you of course develop and expose correctly ;)

Correct! =) For the most part I print around a #2-3 with Ilford papers. I've been rocking the Aristo D2 HO cold light and it brings the contrast I get much more in line with the Beseller 67 I was used to using but if I really wanted to print a flat negative I could toss my condensers back in to try and get more contrast perhaps.

[Merg Ross]

It has been my favorite paper for a decade. I am using the same Aristo cold light that you reference. Of course, it all depends on the many variables of print making, but for an introduction to fiber paper I suggest you give it a try. Have fun!

[m00dawg]

Ah good to know! I decided to place an order at Fotoimpex since, if I ordered enough stuff, it would be cheaper than buying domestically from Freestyle. To do that though I ended up ordering about $300 worth of stuff haha so spent a good deal of time starting at the final price. :)

I ended up buying MCC 110 in 5x7 and 8x10 boxes (100 each), 2 boxes of CHS ii (pretty sold on it after the shots I've taken with my first box), 3 rolls of HR-50 and 3 rolls of Silvermax. Should hopefully last me a while! Still not done though, I need to order some extra odds and ends from BH (Hypotest, Perma Wash, extra tongs, etc.) and need to rig up some sort of paper washer. I use a plastic bucket from the hardware store now as a holding tank for my resin prints. I was going to add a spout at the bottom so I can cycle the water in and out but also need to figure out a way to keep the papers separate.

I spent a lot of time working out if I should also try toning but decided to take things one step at a time and work on learning more about how to use and wash the paper first and then consider that later. I think adding that in requires having a good process down (doubly so since those chemicals are more hazardous).

I'm really looking forward to it!

[Merg Ross]

Ah good to know! I decided to place an order at Fotoimpex since, if I ordered enough stuff, it would be cheaper than buying domestically from Freestyle. To do that though I ended up ordering about $300 worth of stuff haha so spent a good deal of time starting at the final price. :)

I ended up buying MCC 110 in 5x7 and 8x10 boxes (100 each), 2 boxes of CHS ii (pretty sold on it after the shots I've taken with my first box), 3 rolls of HR-50 and 3 rolls of Silvermax. Should hopefully last me a while! Still not done though, I need to order some extra odds and ends from BH (Hypotest, Perma Wash, extra tongs, etc.) and need to rig up some sort of paper washer. I use a plastic bucket from the hardware store now as a holding tank for my resin prints. I was going to add a spout at the bottom so I can cycle the water in and out but also need to figure out a way to keep the papers separate.

I spent a lot of time working out if I should also try toning but decided to take things one step at a time and work on learning more about how to use and wash the paper first and then consider that later. I think adding that in requires having a good process down (doubly so since those chemicals are more hazardous).

I'm really looking forward to it!

When ordering from B&H you might consider this for washing a small quantity of prints. Obviously not the ideal solution, but an inexpensive substitute.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40427-REG/Paterson_PTP235_8x10_High_Speed_Print.html

[m00dawg]

When ordering from B&H you might consider this for washing a small quantity of prints. Obviously not the ideal solution, but an inexpensive substitute.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40427-REG/Paterson_PTP235_8x10_High_Speed_Print.html

Yeah I've thought about this. I think I might be able to make it work but my darkroom is in our spare bathroom. At some point I might get a shed or something to try and get more space but for now I use a detachable shower head and I would need to work out a way to mate it, or its hose at least, with that tray. I think that would otherwise work because I've got plywood on top of the bathtub where I have a rack (which has my trays and other darkroom things) but with a gap so I can run a drain out so I can drain right from the tub.

All the bits are there other than figuring out how to mate the tubes. I have the Patterson tank washer thing which has a similar tube and haven't worked out how to adapt it (though I haven't tried very hard - I now use a JOBO 2500 in a custom rotary I made for film deving).

[Drew Wiley]

The fiber paper is excellent, with both a high DMax and superb highlight reproduction, provided you are satisfied with the range of image tones it gives, which trend a bit more brownish-purple than some other papers. Like all premium papers, it's on the expensive side. So there's no point in trying to whittle that down by switching to RC. A premium paper often saves you money by wasting less paper, getting you from Point A to Point B more efficiently.

[Pieter]

https://www.freestylephoto.biz/15681-Adox-Premium-MCC-110-VC-FB-8x10-5-Sheet-Sample-Pack-Glossy

[m00dawg]

The fiber paper is excellent, with both a high DMax and superb highlight reproduction, provided you are satisfied with the range of image tones it gives, which trend a bit more brownish-purple than some other papers. Like all premium papers, it's on the expensive side. So there's no point in trying to whittle that down by switching to RC. A premium paper often saves you money by wasting less paper, getting you from Point A to Point B more efficiently.

Purple I think would be cool. Not sure about brown but I'll give it a go. I didn't get the Adox developer with it since I still have a few sealed bottles of Ilford Multigrade. That and it had some ORM restrictions on it that Multigrade didn't seem to have (aside from their eco developer which I may try depending on how it looks in the Ilford dev).

I don't print a lot in terms of quantity so yeah the purchase hurt the pocketbook but I think it will both last a while and when I am able to get in the darkroom it'll be nice to use good quality paper since my time spent is just as valuable as the paper.

[Larry Gebhardt]

Print color is highly dependent on the developer dilution (I don't think this is true with paper that incorporates developer, but I'm not sure any of that is still on the market). So try your multigrade and if you want it a bit warmer dilute it in half and increase your developing time. Go the opposite way to cool it down. Try that before spending more money on developer. I just through away a whole lot of expired (and bad) paper developer I had bought to try out over the years and some given to me by various people. That felt really bad.

[Fred L]

If you can, give Formulary 130 paper developer a try as well. Used to process in MG dev and Oriental (new stuff, not the glorious blue box paper) didn't look all that great. That and Bergger Prestige neutral tone, look really nice in 130, and it's now my developer of choice. Am tempted to order some Adox as well and have heard nothing but good about it.

[m00dawg]

Thanks folks! Oh man really excited now! Curious how long it'll take to get my order here from Germany but we'll see! Ah good call on Formulary 130, I'll give it a shot once I run through my multigrade. I use TF-5 for my film fixing and got pretty well sold on it so yeah Formulary 130 is worth a try in my book.

I just, to Larry's point, don't want to end up with bad chemicals I didn't use. That's also why I still use Ilford Rapid Fixer for my paper. I have a few bottles of it left as well and it seems to last quite a while at least with RC papers. I plan on switching over to TF-5 for paper as well - probably. I say probably because that stuff smells like a cat litter box and I dunno if I could deal with using it in trays in my small darkroom. We'll see though.

[Drew Wiley]

It's compatible with all ordinary developers. I was simply implying that you're not going to get a true neutral black out of it, and certainly not a blue-black by anything I've tried. It's a tad on the warm side, though I wouldn't classify it as a warm tone paper per se. It takes toners well, and you can split print with it if that appeals to you, but the effect is less dramatic than with MGWT. Ansco 130 is a superb general-purpose paper developer, but it has slightly different effects on different kinds of paper in terms of final image color.
I routinely use TF4 for all my film and paper needs, and always one-shot. The odor is mild. If I want to smell cats I go back in the house.

[m00dawg]

I thought I'd provide an update on my experiences. Advice here has been spot on - the MCC paper has some lovely tones but I have "run out" of contrast with it using my Aristo Cold Light on my D2 on a few occasions. I can try to thwart that by switching back to condensers but it hasn't been a huge issue necessarily. It's also a tad on the warm side, or rather the base of the paper isn't as white as the Ilford RC papers I have. I think I would still call it neutral but it leans a bit warm. I'm using Ilford multigrade developer for it so another developer might produce different results, though I think it's mostly the paper base I'm looking at.

That said, though, it's a joy to work with! It's my first fiber paper, as noted previously, so I don't have a ton to go on but I've enjoyed the overall look of the paper, I love how it handles, it does seem to have a bit more "depth" (though perhaps less than I was expecting given comments on fiber vs rc). I really like the weight.

Overall I'm sold on fiber. I'll still do RC for tests and strips and quick prints, but typically if I'm in the darkroom it's because I have an intent to print something and usually I'd rather spend the extra time to make it as nice as I can. Working with fiber hasn't been a huge deal. I did some residual fixer tests and it seems like my wash methods are decent. I'm currently not toning but will do that at some point. I wasn't quite ready to work with the heavy metals.

Not trying to doodoo no RC paper either - I really like the Ilford RC papers, the cooltone especially for the right composition is really great! But fiber is definitely a step up and yeah I just enjoy working with it more. I'll perhaps try other FB papers as well (ADOX Polywarmtone looks interesting, oddly, paired with the cooltone developer they were testing with). Plenty to try which is another reason I like FB (bigger selection).

Anyways thanks for all the help and advice both here and in general! Learned a lot and am glad I finally gave fiber a shot!

[JMO]

I’ll agree with most of the comments above about working with MCC 110 based on my last year of working it; and also about the recos to try EC- or ANSCO-130 developer (I’ve tried Dektol and ADOX’s developers with MCC 110 also). However, if you’ll permit me to interject a suggestion about another paper besides MCC 110, I recommend you try ADOX’s MCC 112 semi-matte. It allows greater latitude to bring in the highlights and keep the shadows, but also does not finish quite as “matte” or “ semi-matte” as (for example) Ilford’s FB semi-matte. And to my mind 112 does not finish a bit warm as some have said above about MCC 110.

[m00dawg]

I’ll agree with most of the comments above about working with MCC 110 based on my last year of working it; and also about the recos to try EC- or ANSCO-130 developer (I’ve tried Dektol and ADOX’s developers with MCC 110 also). However, if you’ll permit me to interject a suggestion about another paper besides MCC 110, I recommend you try ADOX’s MCC 112 semi-matte. It allows greater latitude to bring in the highlights and keep the shadows, but also does not finish as “matte” or “ semi-matte” as (for example) Ilford’s FB semi-matte. And to my mind 112 does not finish a bit warm as some have said above about MCC 110.

Hmm really? Well that's rather interesting! I would not have though there would have been such a different between the two. I'll have to give that a go!

Also a good reminder for me to look at the other developers! I actually pulled up the Photographer's Formulary version of the 130 just now. I noticed they note the working solution can last 1-2 months!? That's rather impressive compared to Ilford's Multigrade which is measured in days. Not a fan of the powders or mixing process but if the shelf and working solutions last as long as the instructions say, that may be well worth it.

[Jeroen]

I assume you're located in Europe or you wouldn't consider Fotoimpex. This Belgian webshop could be a nice alternative source: https://www.retrocamera.be. I bought there a few times with total satisfaction. They reply fast to your questions, too.

Adox MCC is a nice paper, Berger is 1/3 grade harder and a bit thicker/heavier than MCC, but MCC is 2x faster and 1/2 the price of Berger. With Adox warm tone developer I get very nice results, more like Record Rapid than Brovira.

[m00dawg]

In the US actually. It ended up being cheaper to go with Fotoimpex or at least the same price and at the time US places were out of stock of either the MCC 110 paper in the sizes I wanted or the CHS ii film. I normally do Freestyle or BH. I think Freestyle is more or less the official ADOX distributor (but shipping can be pretty terrible, even when compared to the cost of shipping overseas).

Anyway back to paper, I thought about Bergger since I've heard good things about it and there is a nice selection of it in the US. I was slightly apprehensive just because Pancro 400 has been such a tough (and grainy) film to master and I didn't want to have a repeat experience with their paper. (I'm not saying Pancro 400 is bad, just a film I haven't been able to figure out with my process).

[Greg Y]

M00dawg, The results from PF 130 are definitely worth the small effort of mixing from powder.