PDA

View Full Version : Need help with filter sizing.



Xia_Ke
30-Mar-2019, 14:18
I recently acquired a Tessar 300mm f/4.5 in a Prestor 5 shutter and I want to pick up some filters for it, but I'm having trouble figuring out what size filters to use. An 82mm is a hair too small and an 86mm is a hair too big. I'm not aware of any standard filter size inbetween the two, but the lens is fully threaded on the front and the original factory cap is a push on, so I have to assume that it was meant to allow for filter use. Is there some filter size between 82mm and 86mm I'm not aware of? Thanks in advance for any help.

Jim Noel
30-Mar-2019, 14:27
get a push on filter adapter of appropriate size and filters to fit.

Eric Woodbury
30-Mar-2019, 14:31
Or use 100mm gels (polyester).

Xia_Ke
30-Mar-2019, 14:54
Thank you for the quick replies :)


get a push on filter adapter of appropriate size and filters to fit.

I've never had to use one before. Any in particular you'd recommend? The outside diameter looks to be about 88mm or 89mm (hard to tell exactly using a ruler). Only one I'm seeing from a quick Google search is the Lee FK100 which is for a 100mm outside diameter. Not sure if it would close down 10mm+?


Or use 100mm gels (polyester).

Do you mean just holding the gel in front of the lens? Any issues with reflections off the back of the filter? I primarily want to be able to use filters because the fastest shutter speed with it is 1/30, so filters would add more aperture options in brighter conditions.

Dan Fromm
30-Mar-2019, 15:20
Who made the lens? What is its name?

Xia_Ke
30-Mar-2019, 15:21
Who made the lens? What is its name?

Oops, sorry for not including that to begin with. It is a Zeiss Tessar 300mm f/4.5.

It is the one listed here on page 8 and shown on page 10.

http://www.arnecroell.com/czj.pdf

Bob Salomon
30-Mar-2019, 16:24
Oops, sorry for not including that to begin with. It is a Zeiss Tessar 300mm f/4.5.

It is the one listed here on page 8 and shown on page 10.

http://www.arnecroell.com/czj.pdf

Send an email to Heliopan and ask them if they have any 84mm filters or adapters left. Ideally you would want an 84 to 86mm adapter. But you would need to know the thread pitch of your lens as well as the thread size.

Greg
30-Mar-2019, 16:43
I used a gel filter holder that had 2 bent wires on opposite sides under tension that mounted it onto the lens barrel. Used it in back of the lens inside the bellows. No filter threads to match.

Bob Salomon
30-Mar-2019, 16:47
I used a gel filter holder that had 2 bent wires on opposite sides under tension that mounted it onto the lens barrel. Used it in back of the lens inside the bellows. No filter threads to match.

Besides being the wrong place to put a filter or gel optically, how do you use polarizes or graduated ND filters that way?

Greg
30-Mar-2019, 17:10
Besides being the wrong place to put a filter or gel optically, how do you use polarizes or graduated ND filters that way?

Interesting post Bob... As I recall Sinar recommended placing filters behind the lens. They even included a filter holder on the back of their Sinar Copal shutter (which I frequently use). Obviously Polarizers and gradated ND filters have to be used in front of the lens.

Bob Salomon
30-Mar-2019, 17:18
Interesting post Bob... As I recall Sinar recommended placing filters behind the lens. They even included a filter holder on the back of their Sinar Copal shutter (which I frequently use). Obviously Polarizers and gradated ND filters have to be used in front of the lens.
Placing filters behind the lens makes the filter part of the lens. That will always cause a focus shift = to 1/3rd the thickness of whatever you place there. More importantly any defects, scratches, dust, fingerprints, etc. will also have far more detrimental effect then with placement in front where the filter does not effect what the lens does.

Eric Woodbury
30-Mar-2019, 18:21
Bob, we're going to need a reference on your last statement.

Bob Salomon
30-Mar-2019, 18:32
Bob, we're going to need a reference on your last statement.

Check any photographic optical text book.
Filters only go behind or in a lens if they are part of the design of the lens. Otherwise they will effect the image.

Xia_Ke
30-Mar-2019, 19:28
Thanks again everyone for the input :)


Send an email to Heliopan and ask them if they have any 84mm filters or adapters left. Ideally you would want an 84 to 86mm adapter. But you would need to know the thread pitch of your lens as well as the thread size.

Thanks Bob :) I'll give them a call on Monday.

Tracy Storer
30-Mar-2019, 19:44
Check any photographic optical text book.
Filters only go behind or in a lens if they are part of the design of the lens. Otherwise they will effect the image.

I learned this way. Thin wratten gels behind the lens, ok if you must, glass = nono.

Keith Fleming
30-Mar-2019, 21:17
Another option would be to contact S. K. Grimes and have them make an adapter to take the screw-in filters of your choice. They would need the lens itself to verify the lens threads and then for checking the fit of the final product. For example, for my 355 mm Schneider Dagor the Grimes company made an adapter that adapts a 67 mm filter to the lens' 60 mm diamerter. I found it much easier to find 67 mm filters than 60 mm ones.

Keith

Jerry Bodine
30-Mar-2019, 21:31
...Filters only go behind or in a lens if they are part of the design of the lens. Otherwise they will effect the image.

Even if the lens produces a blurry, swirly image?

Greg
31-Mar-2019, 02:42
Placing filters behind the lens makes the filter part of the lens. That will always cause a focus shift = to 1/3rd the thickness of whatever you place there. More importantly any defects, scratches, dust, fingerprints, etc. will also have far more detrimental effect then with placement in front where the filter does not effect what the lens does.

Thickness of Kodak gel filters is 0.08mm. So now will have to compensate for that 0.0266666mm focus shift. Unfortunately my Sinar standards are not calibrated in one one hundreds of a mm so will just have to live with knowing my focus is 0.0266666mm off.... I can live with that.

Xia_Ke
31-Mar-2019, 04:52
Another option would be to contact S. K. Grimes and have them make an adapter to take the screw-in filters of your choice. They would need the lens itself to verify the lens threads and then for checking the fit of the final product. For example, for my 355 mm Schneider Dagor the Grimes company made an adapter that adapts a 67 mm filter to the lens' 60 mm diamerter. I found it much easier to find 67 mm filters than 60 mm ones.

Keith

Thanks Keith :) If a call to Heliopan doesn't pan out, I may try going that route. Do you mind if I ask what the cost was when you had one made?

Keith Fleming
31-Mar-2019, 17:43
The filter adapter--a step-up ring-- from Grimes was made roughly 15 years ago, so the current price is likely higher. As I recall, the price I paid was about $80.00. I should add that some research on the Internet may turn up a cheaper commercial 60-67 step-up ring. At the time, I did not find a commercial version of what I wanted, but that may not be the case today.

Keith

Bob Salomon
31-Mar-2019, 17:48
The filter adapter--a step-up ring-- from Grimes was made roughly 15 years ago, so the current price is likely higher. As I recall, the price I paid was about $80.00. I should add that some research on the Internet may turn up a cheaper commercial 60-67 step-up ring. At the time, I did not find a commercial version of what I wanted, but that may not be the case today.

Keith

Heliopan and probably B+W, made brass 60 to 67mm step up rings. It was a common ring since many Leica lenses used 60mm.

Greg
31-Mar-2019, 17:50
The filter adapter--a step-up ring-- from Grimes was made roughly 15 years ago, so the current price is likely higher. As I recall, the price I paid was about $80.00. I should add that some research on the Internet may turn up a cheaper commercial 60-67 step-up ring. At the time, I did not find a commercial version of what I wanted, but that may not be the case today.

Keith

On eBay have picked up a couple of very inclusive sets of step-up and step-down rings for very, very little money from Chinese sellers. But I found 2 rings that fit my needs at a fraction of the price of having one custom adapter rings made. Be aware that those rings are made of a very soft easily machined aluminum.

Xia_Ke
31-Mar-2019, 18:40
The filter adapter--a step-up ring-- from Grimes was made roughly 15 years ago, so the current price is likely higher. As I recall, the price I paid was about $80.00. I should add that some research on the Internet may turn up a cheaper commercial 60-67 step-up ring. At the time, I did not find a commercial version of what I wanted, but that may not be the case today.

Keith

I did find a Lee push-on 100mm filter mount and they make a 100->90mm adapter ring. I have plenty of sheets of varying thickness camera foam I could use to line that adapter to get a perfect fit. I also found 2 old aero camera slip-on filters meant to fit up to a 90mm barrel. Couldn't help but pull the trigger on those and hope they will work to some extent with the thought that I can adjust contrast in development.

Xia_Ke
31-Mar-2019, 18:43
On eBay have picked up a couple of very inclusive sets of step-up and step-down rings for very, very little money from Chinese sellers. But I found 2 rings that fit my needs at a fraction of the price of having one custom adapter rings made. Be aware that those rings are made of a very soft easily machined aluminum.

I have searched a ton of those cheap adapter listings to no avail. They all have 82mm and/or 86mm, neither of which will work. Another thought was to get a cheap 92mm filter with front threading, take out the glass, and use some foam strips to make it fit as a slip on adapter.

pgk
1-Apr-2019, 01:41
Bob, we're going to need a reference on your last statement.

FWIW. Some of the Nikon Fisheye lenses used glass filters behind the lens. These were supplied with the lens and pushed in to a slot designed to take them. A clear glass filter was supplied for 'normal' use when a coloured one was not required. Failure to use the clear glass filter threw the focus out. At least one company marketed a purpose built lens which could be pushed into the slot if the lens was to be used underwater (housed behind a dome port) to adjust focus for the virtual image created by the dome port. Clearly these filters were a part of the optical system and an inherent requirement for the lens to work well.

Bob Salomon
1-Apr-2019, 03:56
FWIW. Some of the Nikon Fisheye lenses used glass filters behind the lens. These were supplied with the lens and pushed in to a slot designed to take them. A clear glass filter was supplied for 'normal' use when a coloured one was not required. Failure to use the clear glass filter threw the focus out. At least one company marketed a purpose built lens which could be pushed into the slot if the lens was to be used underwater (housed behind a dome port) to adjust focus for the virtual image created by the dome port. Clearly these filters were a part of the optical system and an inherent requirement for the lens to work well.

That is what I said:

“Filters only go behind or in a lens if they are part of the design of the lens. Otherwise they will effect the image.”

neil poulsen
1-Apr-2019, 08:42
Consider using 4" Wrattin filters, or Lee acetate. Lee sells a rubber band adapter that holds 4" gels. At least, give this a try before spending a lot of money on glass filters. If you decide to keep the lens, then maybe go for an adapter or glass that would fit.

pgk
2-Apr-2019, 00:38
That is what I said:

“Filters only go behind or in a lens if they are part of the design of the lens. Otherwise they will effect the image.”

My point was that this lens is an example of a lens with rear fit filters which are obviously designed into the optical calculation.