View Full Version : Interesting observation regarding Large Format on Facebook
Lachlan 717
4-Mar-2019, 03:23
I’m really not interested in the pros/cons of Facebook.
I AM interested in a FB page that I’m on that is dedicated to Large Format.
Every day or two, upwards of 3-5 new members sign up. The Moderator welcomes newcomers, directing them to the page’s Ts and Cs.
Very interesting numbers joining. Contrary to what Tony Northrup claims, it seems that film isn’t dead.
minh0204
4-Mar-2019, 03:48
That metrics is super inflated, no one should take it seriously.
Joining a FB group is super easy - almost as easy as creating an account here. Takes no effort at all.
What fraction of them will actually go out and buy LF related equipment, and more importantly, use them?
Christopher Barrett
4-Mar-2019, 05:21
I've maintained a close relationship with Arca Swiss, having bought a half dozen of their cameras over the last 20 years. My last was an 8x10 F Metric and Rod told me afterwards that they're selling more of these than ever. At $8k a piece, I'd say that's a positive metric.
CB
mvanderaa
4-Mar-2019, 06:14
While I can't speak specifically to LF, I can make an observation on shooting film in general. I teach high school photography. 10 years ago many high schools closed their darkrooms (fortunately we did not). I know of one high school that closed their darkroom a decade ago that has re-opened it. There are more students interested in shooting film today than in previous years. They think of it like vinyl records — analog is cool and in style.
Good points that support increasing LF and film usage.
Several small companies have joined the fray.
FB is winning
Do the terms and conditions of Facebook still claim ownership of anything posted on it? The right to use it, alter it, sell and re-sell anything posted - including your personal information?
This was part of their terms some time back - have they changed them?
There are several LF groups, two have about 7,000 members.
Kent in SD
Lachlan 717
4-Mar-2019, 09:55
Do the terms and conditions of Facebook still claim ownership of anything posted on it? The right to use it, alter it, sell and re-sell anything posted - including your personal information?
This was part of their terms some time back - have they changed them?
Please reread the first line of my original post.
I don’t care about Tw&Cs on Facet.
This thread is simply about interest in LF.
Please reread the first line of my original post.
I don’t care about Tw&Cs on Facet.
This thread is simply about interest in LF.
I read it the first time.
The fact of how they do business helps with deciding whether to get involved. Dedicated to Large Format is nice but if you can lose rights to your images or information - that is a consideration before getting involved.
On this site those in charge do not claim ownership to sell or whatnot. Worth being on here.
Bob Salomon
4-Mar-2019, 15:07
I've maintained a close relationship with Arca Swiss, having bought a half dozen of their cameras over the last 20 years. My last was an 8x10 F Metric and Rod told me afterwards that they're selling more of these than ever. At $8k a piece, I'd say that's a positive metric.
CB
Doesn’t mean that much if you don’t know how many they sold before.
Mike in NY
4-Mar-2019, 15:11
Let's hope the interest in LF continues to grow across diverse channels, whether it's here, FB, high schools, colleges, or other venues where the magic can be (re)discovered.
Edited because I realized I didn't fully understand a previous poster's point.
Lachlan 717
4-Mar-2019, 15:16
I read it the first time.
The fact of how they do business helps with deciding whether to get involved. Dedicated to Large Format is nice but if you can lose rights to your images or information - that is a consideration before getting involved.
On this site those in charge do not claim ownership to sell or whatnot. Worth being on here.
*Yawn.
Mike in NY
4-Mar-2019, 15:21
Mr. Owl, how many posts does it take for friendly optimism to disappear... a one... a two... a three...?
paulbarden
4-Mar-2019, 15:52
I read it the first time.
The fact of how they do business helps with deciding whether to get involved. Dedicated to Large Format is nice but if you can lose rights to your images or information - that is a consideration before getting involved.
On this site those in charge do not claim ownership to sell or whatnot. Worth being on here.
I am pleased that there is a growing interest in large format photography, no matter who is promoting it or how. However....
Facebook's business model is - first and foremost - to capitalize on users data. That's bad enough, but as far as collating and disseminating useful information about ANY hobby, Facebook is the worst because nothing is truly archived, and therefore very little of it retrievable. All social media is a stream, but forums like this are useful archives. You wanna engage Facebook that's your prerogative, but bear in mind that everything you put there is headed downstream, never to be seen again.
Mike in NY
4-Mar-2019, 16:14
To Lachlan's point, as the OP he wasn't interested in debating the pros and cons of FB; he was merely referencing the FB LF page as a positive indicator of interest in film. I'm pretty sure he was hoping his thread would not go down the path of debating FB, so I'll choose to respect that. Maybe a different thread could be created by those interested in discussing opinions about FB per se.
Lachlan 717
4-Mar-2019, 16:29
To Lachlan's point, as the OP he wasn't interested in debating the pros and cons of FB; he was merely referencing the FB LF page as a positive indicator of interest in film. I'm pretty sure he was hoping his thread would not go down the path of debating FB, so I'll choose to respect that. Maybe a different thread could be created by those interested in discussing opinions about FB per se.
Thanks, Mike. You’re spot on.
I really didn’t think it was a difficult concept to follow...
pepeguitarra
4-Mar-2019, 16:31
Well, having been in film for several years, and in digital for the last 30 of the last 34 years, I can tell you WHY I came back to film, and to LF later:
1) I have shot over 18,000 images, most of them in my computer, other disappeared when my computer crashed.
2) No body looks at them because they are in my computer.
3) I took several shots of the same subject, just in case and to make sure I got one right. I shot really quick. AF and fast lenses.
4) I upgraded camera regularly every two years, one time, less than a year.
5) I realized I was buying a computer that became obsolete rather quickly.
6) I used to be in photography for the artistic part of it, but I stayed because of the gadgets.
7) One day, after traveling for a month in England with a Canon 5D and three humongous lenses, I developed back pains. In the meantime, I saw one man inside a cathedral with a small camera and what I now know was a Sumilux 35/1.4 lens and a Leica M4.
8) Then I moved to Leica digital (the first ones M8 and M9 later). When I realized that M3 was the cool one. Then 35mm film was my thing.
9) Developing 35mm and looking at the grain that I obtained, I started moving to 6x7, until I found the 4x5.
10) I am glad to report that after spending one afternoon hiking and shooting, I come home with only 4 shots (two film holders) and usually, 3 of them are OK.
11) That is why I am in LF. I support LF. That is why I am buying the Intrepid, they are inexpensive compared to Leicas.
12) I do expect to buy an 8x10 Deardorff Tennessee one day.
13) I am also in every group in FB, Instagram, etc. I do want film to stay. I hate to see companies like Kodak, Tetenal, go bankrupt. That is why I support Ilford (not Fuji), who has stayed in the game for a long time and now seems to be growing up.
John Kasaian
4-Mar-2019, 20:16
Any positive news about LF photography is, well, positive.
This, like Freestyle's new analog catalog, should be encouraging.
Good stuff!
Kirk Gittings
4-Mar-2019, 20:27
While I can't speak specifically to LF, I can make an observation on shooting film in general. I teach high school photography. 10 years ago many high schools closed their darkrooms (fortunately we did not). I know of one high school that closed their darkroom a decade ago that has re-opened it. There are more students interested in shooting film today than in previous years. They think of it like vinyl records — analog is cool and in style.
I have taught film and LF film at the college level for a few decades. I've seen a lot of trends and been able to follow students long term interests as I make it a point to keep in touch. Yes there is an upsurge in interest in film and LF amongst students, but unfortunately I have not seen that interest last long outside of school except for a couple of isolated cases.
To Lachlan's point, AND the issues with Facebook "groups":
The issue I see with the groups (many of which I am a part of, but do not participate in that much) is that much of the "basics" of LF is unavailable directly (hence referencing on occasion the largeformatphotography.info page). Since these pages basically offer nothing to newbies, except constantly asking the same basic questions and receiving everything from decent to downright terrible advice, I also think there may also be a trend of quickly quitting LF if turning to such groups for primary sources of information.
So in other words, long-term, they may actually be harmful to LF use overall, but it's just my opinion. A couple weeks ago, someone was asking about images "missing" from film, where it was actually completely black including the edges, indicating obvious exposure to light outside of the camera. Yet, arguments ensued for over 100 posts with everything from "bad film from the manufacturer" to "it was never developed." This kind of thing is common.
Mike in NY
5-Mar-2019, 04:27
I have taught film and LF film at the college level for a few decades. I've seen a lot of trends and been able to follow students long term interests as I make it a point to keep in touch. Yes there is an upsurge in interest in film and LF amongst students, but unfortunately I have not seen that interest last long outside of school except for a couple of isolated cases.
Hopefully, even if they don't continue to practice, they continue to appreciate the fine print, and that helps those of us who are exhibiting.
I joined into some of the Facebook groups not so much to post images but to dilute the politics and other brain dead posts that would otherwise flavor my Facebook stream. I use fb for family and work mostly. I post something in a group once in a while to be a participant. I think their low image quality and ever changing TOS discourage more posts and that's why there is modest traffic but big subscriber count. I suspect lf is more popular than we know. I bet scanning is difficult for many lf participants too.
Steven Ruttenberg
5-Mar-2019, 10:49
Well considering I only post images on FB that are not would not make very good prints beyond postage stamp size, (low res, and such) and contain my copyright, let them try to steal my work.
faberryman
5-Mar-2019, 14:19
That’s different than here where someone new tries to ask a basic question and the vocal assholes keep beating them down until the new people just stop coming.I don't see it much. Maybe it is a matter of perspective.
ic-racer
5-Mar-2019, 15:52
What is Facebook?
I got me one, Portraits of Greatness (https://karsh.org/bibliography/portraits-of-greatness/)
What is Facebook?
What is Facebook?
You wouldn't like to face it, trust me!
I have taught film and LF film at the college level for a few decades. I've seen a lot of trends and been able to follow students long term interests as I make it a point to keep in touch. Yes there is an upsurge in interest in film and LF amongst students, but unfortunately I have not seen that interest last long outside of school except for a couple of isolated cases.
I had worked at a college lab for a time, and noticed that while there was a turn key lab set up, people took it for granted it was there and lived in that moment, but the learning curve/space/commitment needed to operated one's own lab I'm sure changed everything later for them...
When asked for advice about their futures, I stopped saying that materials, situations, costs etc will change, but to survive doing wet work will require great flexibility to adapt to the new changing landscapes required, but possible, so be prepared to make changes work for you, instead of hitting a wall stopping you...
They didn't like that answer, so I stopped giving it... :-(
Steve K
As an adult college student in a small setting that had a huge Darkroom available 24/7, I spent a lot of time there, especially weekends. I worked full time nights. It was empty most of the time, had endless raw materials for chemistry. I took one class from my now close friend. Same age. Then used it for the duration until I moved up to Grad student in a bigger environment.
Those were the good old days. 20 years ago. Then I went digital for 10 years but 2011 made my home a Darkroom, now twice in a second location.
Few are hooked for life, but some can't get enough.
ymmv
I had worked at a college lab for a time, and noticed that while there was a turn key lab set up, people took it for granted it was there and lived in that moment, but the learning curve/space/commitment needed to operated one's own lab I'm sure changed everything later for them...
When asked for advice about their futures, I stopped saying that materials, situations, costs etc will change, but to survive doing wet work will require great flexibility to adapt to the new changing landscapes required, but possible, so be prepared to make changes work for you, instead of hitting a wall stopping you...
They didn't like that answer, so I stopped giving it... :-(
Steve K
Kirk Gittings
6-Mar-2019, 09:00
I had worked at a college lab for a time, and noticed that while there was a turn key lab set up, people took it for granted it was there and lived in that moment, but the learning curve/space/commitment needed to operated one's own lab I'm sure changed everything later for them...
When asked for advice about their futures, I stopped saying that materials, situations, costs etc will change, but to survive doing wet work will require great flexibility to adapt to the new changing landscapes required, but possible, so be prepared to make changes work for you, instead of hitting a wall stopping you...
They didn't like that answer, so I stopped giving it... :-(
Steve K
Yes. It's a tough question. It has always been difficult to make a living in the arts and a very rare person who can make it work at any level. I have always tried to explain it more as a passion that one is driven to follow and can be followed in many ways including NOT doing it for a living. Some of the best photographers I know did something else for a living.
Merg Ross
6-Mar-2019, 09:15
I have always tried to explain it more as a passion that one is driven to follow and can be followed in many ways including NOT doing it for a living.
Good point, and a realization that may take years.
pepeguitarra
6-Mar-2019, 09:26
What is Facebook?
A project created and published by Mark Zukerberg as a Harvard student originally under the name Facemash. Facemash allowed Harvard students to judge the attractiveness of each other to create rankings (similar to the Hot or Not site that he launched in 2000). As he didn’t actually get permission to use student photos, unsurprisingly many were not happy with his work. Within a few hours the site had seen 22k photo views, but within a few days it was shut down. He was hauled in front of the Harvard Administration Board. With the risk of expulsion on the table, the board finally decided to let him stay. After a public apology he moved on from his first brush with authority and set his sights on his next project. Then he offered his services to the FBI and other organizations to harvest data from people. Now, everybody who is in FB, has contributed with data to the largest data base that supplies information to business, political, and illegal organizations.
Kirk Gittings
6-Mar-2019, 09:31
Good point, and a realization that may take years.
In that vein, I always brought in interesting speakers, mostly artists who did interesting work. I always tried to bring in a couple of people who had done great work and had made some real contributions who indeed did something else for a living. Richard Wasserman, who participates on this forum, is an example-he has given presentations to my Chicago class many times.
Hugo Zhang
6-Mar-2019, 10:05
Good point, and a realization that may take years.
Merg,
I have been reading your lovely book and you explained why you gave up your 20 years career of commercial photography in 1981 to become a real estate appraiser so you could have the freedom to pursue photography without pressure.
It may take years or decades for one to find his/her calling and the best way to get there. Most of us may never achieve what we want, life is indeed a journey. Sometimes I tell myself that at least I am having a great time making images with tools I like.
BTW, what a beautiful book, full of wonderful stories and images! Thanks.
Hugo Zhang
6-Mar-2019, 10:14
I have found many members of this forum I know spend much more time at FB. I discovered this when visiting a friend the other day and asked him why I seldom read his postings here anymore. He spent most of of time on FB and so were many other members, I was told. While I still communicate via emails and read postings here. I am old and out of date.
To get out of my isolation, one of my New Year's resolutions was to learn social mediums and get into FB, Instagram and some other stuff I don't know. I have yet to do it, because my life is so full without them. So should I join FB, to keep touch with old friends and maybe to sell more cameras?
Yes, FB is good for a business, but do not forget to also have a 'normal' business website.
Where I live now many local only business have only FB Business websites.
I quit FB some time ago and will never visit it again or any Business website on it.
I prefer to shop local, but...
It's a Political decision I made.
ymmv
paulbarden
6-Mar-2019, 10:28
I quit FB some time ago and will never visit it again or any Business website on it.
It's a Political decision I made.
Me too.
While I can't speak specifically to LF, I can make an observation on shooting film in general. I teach high school photography. 10 years ago many high schools closed their darkrooms (fortunately we did not). I know of one high school that closed their darkroom a decade ago that has re-opened it. There are more students interested in shooting film today than in previous years. They think of it like vinyl records — analog is cool and in style.
Few days ago, I visited the largest photo gear dealer in Spain, Fotocasión in Madrid. The owner told me that last year was very good in film, paper and chemistry sales, and all points to an increase sales for this year.
pepeguitarra
6-Mar-2019, 11:28
Hugo: I used FB a lot before to keep in touch with the kids, but I realized the data I provided was never private. Besides, FB became already a place for older guys, kids are moving on to Instagram, so I moved to Instagram too. :). But I only provide public information, never private. This forum is the closest thing to private (yeah right!) I participate on.
Merg Ross
6-Mar-2019, 11:37
Merg,
I have been reading your lovely book and you explained why you gave up your 20 years career of commercial photography in 1981 to become a real estate appraiser so you could have the freedom to pursue photography without pressure.
It may take years or decades for one to find his/her calling and the best way to get there. Most of us may never achieve what we want, life is indeed a journey. Sometimes I tell myself that at least I am having a great time making images with tools I like.
BTW, what a beautiful book, full of wonderful stories and images! Thanks.
Hugo,
Thanks for the kind comments.
I have never had a desire to be on Facebook. From time to time I hear that my work is mentioned on Facebook, but other than that I know little about it. However, through this forum I have met individuals, some in person, who have enriched my journey as a photographer. For me this forum is adequate, and allows time better spent in making photographs.
Mike in NY
9-Mar-2019, 21:37
The Facebook groups are made up of a lot of people new to the medium and, yes, they ask a lot of basic questions over and over. But they are trying to learn. That’s different than here where someone new tries to ask a basic question and the vocal assholes keep beating them down until the new people just stop coming.
I don't see it much.
I can help you with that: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?151061-Deciding-between-Rodenstock-vs-Fujinon-entry-level-150mm-lenses/page3
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.