4x5 camera for long exposure

[rpagliari]

Hi All,
I am getting into 4x5 photography. I do mostly long exposure and I'm looking for a sturdy 4x5 camera, around the range of £1,000 or so.

So far, I've narrowed down to Chamonix, Shen Hao and Stenopeika.

Do any of you have an experience with any of these or recommendations in this direction?

Thank you,

[pepeguitarra]

Don't forget to get a sturdy and heavy tripod and shoot when there is no wind. LF Cameras with the extended bellows can act as sails on a boat and catch a lot of wind.

I have one of these Calumet CC400 that is very sturdy once on a strong tripod:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVqdFV9iprU

[jmontague]

I recently purchased a Chamonix and must say that it is more sturdy than you might think for a camera so light. Very pleased. I agree with the post above that a monorail camera is the most sturdy, but the trade off is weight. Also, do not skip on your tripod and head. They make a tremendous difference, as well. If you are not going far from the car, a monorail is no problem. If you plan to hike, look into the Chamonix.


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[Jac@stafford.net]

You cannot go wrong among your choices, but
you should concentrate upon a good tripod.

[rdeloe]

Have you considered a metal camera? I used to use a nice wooden field camera (Wisner Technical Field), but for sturdiness I prefer my Wista 45VX. It's built like a tank and it's well under your price point.

Mind you almost any camera, no matter how sturdy, is going to move around in the wind if your tripod/head aren't heavy and solid, or your bellows is catching the wind. In other words, the camera might not be the weak link in the chain.

[Mark Sampson]

Not to be Captain Obvious, but a large umbrella used as a windbreak will help long exposures with any camera. Very useful, whichever camera you choose.

[andrewch59]

Most stable camera I have is my Horseman 45FA, small enough not to catch a breeze, light enough to be rock solid on a decent tripod.

[Mark Darragh]

+1 for a metal camera. £1,000 would give you plenty of choices including a used Sinar, Arca-Swiss or Linhof as well as those mentioned. Most metal monorails or flatbeds would fit the definition of sturdy. How far do you intend to carry your camera? Obviously, weight and portability become more critical the further you plan to venture out.

In windy conditions, bellows vibration can become a real headache. As Mark points out, sheltering the camera can be as critical as using a "sturdy" camera and heavy tripod.

[LabRat]

I assume that your requirements for "long exposure" means you will be shooting dim or dark subjects, or heavy filters on the lens, so beyond stability of the camera, the mounting etc, you will have to focus maybe in dim lighting and set-up the camera without full visualization, so a sturdy camera that has alternate focusing (or scale focus and framing) to not depend so much on the gg that is the heart of a view camera...

A press type camera would fit the above bill as sturdy, can be preset for common distances, and compact for on the go use...

You would maybe not need movements so much and need the portability more, but what is the application you are choosing LF for??? LF might help or hinder you...

Steve K

[rpagliari]

I assume that your requirements for "long exposure" means you will be shooting dim or dark subjects, or heavy filters on the lens, so beyond stability of the camera, the mounting etc, you will have to focus maybe in dim lighting and set-up the camera without full visualization, so a sturdy camera that has alternate focusing (or scale focus and framing) to not depend so much on the gg that is the heart of a view camera...

A press type camera would fit the above bill as sturdy, can be preset for common distances, and compact for on the go use...

You would maybe not need movements so much and need the portability more, but what is the application you are choosing LF for??? LF might help or hinder you...

Steve K

Thanks a lot for the info to all of you. I won’t travel much with my camera, as I manly use it in the city where I live.

I do have a heavy duty tripod and normally expose anywhere between 4 and 8 minutes.

I don’t really need too much movement except rise and fall. I'm also planning on using mostly 75mm and 50mm lenses, and only occasionally a 120mm lens, if that makes any difference.

Thank you

[minh0204]

Thanks a lot for the info to all of you. I won’t travel much with my camera, as I manly use it in the city where I live.

I do have a heavy duty tripod and normally expose anywhere between 4 and 8 minutes.

I don’t really need too much movement except rise and fall. I'm also planning on using mostly 75mm and 50mm lenses, and only occasionally a 120mm lens, if that makes any difference.

Thank you

If you have only those few lenses and movements in mind, then get a shift-only camera like the Silvestri T30. They're a bit rare but is within your budget.

[Dan Fromm]

I don’t really need too much movement except rise and fall. I'm also planning on using mostly 75mm and 50mm lenses, and only occasionally a 120mm lens, if that makes any difference.

50 mm lenses for 4x5? Are there any? Yes, I know, 47/5.6 SAXL, 55/4.5 Apo-Grandagon, but 47 isn't 50 and neither is 55.

[Richard Wasserman]

Or you could simplify your life and not have to make lens choices by getting a Cambowide with a 65, 75, 0r 90mm lens. They have rise and fall and are extremely solid and rigid cameras. You can also focus using hyperfocal distance and view the scene through a viewfinder on top of the camera. Are you familiar with just how wide a 50mm lens is on 4x5?

Good luck!

[Jac@stafford.net]

Others have considered the stability of the camera in windy conditions, and a bellows is a significant contributor. Should we list cameras that have no flexible bellows?

[aaronnate]

If it were me, and I was planning to shoot with that limited range of lenses I would go for something with fixed focus capabilities. I thought, at some point in the not so distant past someone made a fixed focus camera with those focal lengths in mind. You changed out the cone and the lens, and had a simple view finder for framing.

I don't know about the exchange rate but Silvestri might fit the OP's requirements.

[Doremus Scudder]

Well...

You can make a long exposure with just about any camera as long as you can get the shutter to stay open for the amount of time you want... It's really not camera-specific.

Sure, stability for long exposures is important, but, despite what the consensus here might seem to indicate, most shots are not made in gale-force winds. Yes, if you plan on doing a lot of shooting in windy conditions, there are considerations (sturdy tripod, shielding the camera, using shorter lenses to minimize bellows draw, etc.), but in calm conditions, I've made razor-sharp images from 20+ minute exposures with pretty "flimsy" tripods (at least by comparison to the recommendations above). All that has to happen is for the camera to stay still (and the subject to stay still) during the exposure time. FWIW, I have had more problems with negative popping or shifting around during long exposures than unsharpness due to wind-caused camera movement.

I do, and have done, a lot of city photography using a wooden folding camera with bag bellows and wide-angle lenses. I used a small Manfrotto tripod and lightweight head. I carried the whole kit with me on my bicycle or on my back walking. Many long exposures and no problems with camera shake.


Thanks a lot for the info to all of you. I won’t travel much with my camera, as I manly use it in the city where I live. I do have a heavy duty tripod and normally expose anywhere between 4 and 8 minutes. I don’t really need too much movement except rise and fall. I'm also planning on using mostly 75mm and 50mm lenses, and only occasionally a 120mm lens, if that makes any difference.
Thank you

Let's see... You say you need rise and fall, and that you want to use "mostly 75mm and 50mm lenses, and only occasionally a 120mm lens." Firstly, as pointed out above, there are no 50mm lenses for 4x5. Secondly. lenses in the 47-75mm range generally have pretty limited coverage unless they are real, real expensive (and large) specialty lenses. A typical 65mm wide-angle lens for 4x5 just barely covers the negative. My 75mm f/5.6 lenses give me a few millimeters of rise/fall/shift and not much more. In other words, the lenses you say you want to use rise and fall with won't allow much... Could it be that you are thinking in focal lengths relative to another format?

The focal length that has become the "standard wide-angle lens" for many shooting 4x5 is 90mm. Many of these lenses will allow pretty extensive movements on 4x5. Sure, if you really need wider and more coverage, there are options, but since you are just getting into 4x5 photography, I'd recommend that you check out the 90mm offerings from the big four lens makers (Schneider "Super Angulon" lenses, Fujinon and Nikkor "SW" series and Rodenstock "Grandagon" lenses). I primarily us my 90mm lens and a 135mm Wide-Field Ektar for close city work (you can see some of it on my web site if you're interested). I have a 75mm that ends up being used mostly for landscape work.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

[Peter Lewin]

With your preference for short lenses, I am surprised no one has mentioned bag- versus "normal"-bellows. I have a Canham DLC, and among others, Schneider 80mm and 120mm lenses. The 120mm works easily with a normal bellows, but with the 80mm I can use the normal bellows with minimal movements, but it is much easier to work with the bag bellows (and which allows larger movements). So for any camera you consider, you need to find out first what the widest lens you can use will be (which is a function of how close together you can place the front and rear standards, or the existence of a recessed lens board to fit) and also what the bellows will allow. If you are photographing in a city, I suspect you will be using indirect rise (camera points up, standards are positioned to be vertical) more than you might think, and that is precisely where a bag bellows may become a requirement.

[rpagliari]

Thank you again for your valuable feedback. Yes, I meant 47-75mm range, and I have a preference for super-wide because I tend to stay very close to the subject.

The 75mm might not have been the best choice. However, I will use it for now, and get a 90mm later.

It is reassuring to know that wind may not be the biggest issue. So for now, I will go ahead with a 4x5 field camera, unless I find a T30, but it seems quite rare.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Thank you again for your valuable feedback. Yes, I meant 47-75mm range, and I have a preference for super-wide because I tend to stay very close to the subject.

The 75mm might not have been the best choice. However, I will use it for now, and get a 90mm later.

It is reassuring to know that wind may not be the biggest issue. So for now, I will go ahead with a 4x5 field camera, unless I find a T30, but it seems quite rare.

A 4x5 with a short bellows might be adequate. I just finished one for a 47mm XL. It is very short. Short rail. It works.

[Pfsor]

It is reassuring to know that wind may not be the biggest issue. So for now, I will go ahead with a 4x5 field camera, unless I find a T30, but it seems quite rare.

Surprisingly, nobody has mentioned it yet - the biggest issue doesn't need to be the usually mentioned wind or a weak tripod. In my long exposure photography I grappled more with a moving ground - be it sand under tripod spikes, snow or even a wooden floor, moving happily as I walked around the camera to activate the shutter or just leaving it for the exposure etc.
It took me some ruined Venus Jupiter conjunction pictures to realise that even a firm ground can vibrate from your steps on it.

[Jac@stafford.net]

In my long exposure photography I grappled more with a moving ground.

You might look at tripod vibration suppressors like this (http://www.digoliardi.net/vibration-suppression-pads.jpg).

Google Vibration Suppression Pads

[Pfsor]

You might look at tripod vibration suppressors like this (http://www.digoliardi.net/vibration-suppression-pads.jpg).

Google Vibration Suppression Pads

A nice try Jac, but would not make any difference on an old wooden plank moving with each your step on it. My tripod has rubber protection but the ground can easily betray you. Well, we're speaking a 800mm lens beast in action.

[Jac@stafford.net]

A nice try Jac, but would not make any difference on an old wooden plank moving with each your step on it. My tripod has rubber protection but the ground can easily betray you. Well, we're speaking a 800mm lens beast in action.

So who is presuming an old wooden plank? And what does that mean?

[Pfsor]

An old wooden plank like from an old wooden floor. Found usually in flats or apartments of older buildings that have not been modernized or even in wooden cabins in nature where you hide with your camera to catch a subject of interest because there you have the best view and nobody around to disturb you.
See - plank
/plaŋk/
noun
plural noun: planks
1.
a long, thin, flat piece of timber, used especially in building and flooring.
synonyms: board, floorboard, beam, timber, stave, deal
"rough wooden planks"

[Pfsor]

Now to continue the explanation asked for - an old wooden plank from a wooden floor often times moves when you step on it. It can even make a squeaking noise (good for you - in this case you're warned that the floor is not good for long exposure photography if the photographer steps on it during an exposure). It is more dangerous than winds because winds do not penetrate to the room as easily as they ventilate you in nature. So the wooden floor can move even without you noticing it while walking on it. The rest is easily understandable. Hopefully.

[Greg]

Sinar Norma (4x5 and 8x10) on a Linhof Heavy Duty tripod never failed me for night time exposures of hours plus in length (even on a windy nights).

[Jac@stafford.net]

An old wooden plank like from an old wooden floor. Found usually in flats or apartments of older buildings that have not been modernized or even in wooden cabins in nature where you hide with your camera to catch a subject of interest because there you have the best view and nobody around to disturb you.
See - plank
/plaŋk/
noun
plural noun: planks
1.
a long, thin, flat piece of timber, used especially in building and flooring.
synonyms: board, floorboard, beam, timber, stave, deal
"rough wooden planks"

That is almost enough to put you into the Nut Case category.

[Pfsor]

Sinar Norma (4x5 and 8x10) on a Linhof Heavy Duty tripod never failed me for night time exposures of hours plus in length (even on a windy nights).

Good for you, frankly. The same tripod put on a sandy beach would gladly tell you a different story. :) Especially if you walk around it while bored during the hours of waiting. Been there, done that.

[Pfsor]

That is almost enough to put you into the Nut Case category.

Was is so difficult for you? Next time you don't get it ask again!

[Pfsor]

You might look at tripod vibration suppressors like this (http://www.digoliardi.net/vibration-suppression-pads.jpg).

Google Vibration Suppression Pads

They won't help you in snow, on sand or, your favourite - an old wooden plank floor. :(

[Dan Fromm]

Hmm. The OP is talking about 4 to 8 minute exposures in daylight, not that that matters. A few seconds of vibration should hardly register.

[Pfsor]

Hmm. The OP is talking about 4 to 8 minute exposures in daylight, not that that matters. A few seconds of vibration should hardly register.

Sure, if the vibration calms down and the vibrating parts come to their original optical position, then a few seconds of vibration don't register. That is surely not case of a vibrating, sliding tripod on snow, on sand or even on a bending floor plank. Once the tripod slides deeper to the snow, sand or the floor plank bends because of your steps it is impossible for the tripod to find its original position, hence the optical path is changed and the picture is consequently ruined.

[Serge S]

This past Fall I took a number of long exposure photos (2 to 3 minutes / by the ocean) & although it was quite windy the negatives came out sharp.
The dark cloth was something I needed to minimize as it also as it tended to flap around if I was not careful.
I could shield the bellows to some degree with my body or an umbrella.
Also waited for the wind drop in intensity as it went in ebbs & flows.
The tripod did not move but the bellows did vibrate a bit a times I'm sure, even if just a minimal amount.