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Mike in NY
15-Feb-2019, 16:39
I'm looking to get educated on Horseman Topcor lenses and Seiko shutters. My father-in-law has a Horseman 4x5 HD that I'd like to take for a test drive, and I noticed the Topcor lens name and the Seiko shutter, and thought to myself that I don't usually see these names in LF. However, when I search the 'net for information it seems these are THE lenses and shutters typically used for Horseman cameras. If you have experience with these, I'm interested to hear and learn from any insights you have to share about their performance and/or quirks. Thanks!

Tin Can
15-Feb-2019, 17:17
I shot Horseman Topcon Super 90mm in Seiko and a 120 mm APO Symmar in Copal this week with Horseman HD, same scene, same film.

Both negs equally sharp at f22.

I will not post the negs.

I like both lenses. With a HD I want a lens that will fold up inside, both do.

ic-racer
15-Feb-2019, 17:29
Nikon, Fuji and Topcon are all makers of fine LF lenses. I have twelve Topcor LF and MF lenses and six Fujinon LF lenses. I don't know of any quirks of the lens cells other than the 90mm 5.6 LF Topcor (the one that covers 4x5) has a removable ring in the back so it will fit through the lensboard. If you take the lens off and don't replace the ring, the rear element will be damaged if you set it down.
In terms of Seiko shutters. Some have a lever that you push or pull, rather than slide back and forth for focusing and viewing.
I think the LF 300mm Topcor is one of the rarest. I don't recall ever seeing one for sale.

Mike in NY
15-Feb-2019, 17:44
Nikon, Fuji and Topcon are all makers of fine LF lenses.

Nikon and Fuji are, of course, names I know (I have a Fuji 210mm lens), but are they somehow related to Topcor lenses?

Dan Fromm
15-Feb-2019, 18:06
Nikon and Fuji are, of course, names I know (I have a Fuji 210mm lens), but are they somehow related to Topcor lenses?

No. Nikon is a contraction of a Japanese name that means Japan Optical Company. Fuji is an abbreviation of Fujifilm, whose lens brands are Fujinon and Fujinar. Topcon is an abbreviation of Tokyo Optical, whose lens brand is Topcor. Three entirely independent companies. All three make, sorry, made excellent LF lenses.

Mike in NY
15-Feb-2019, 18:23
Three entirely independent companies.

That's what I thought... wasn't sure why they were mentioned in previous post.

ic-racer
16-Feb-2019, 08:58
That's what I thought... wasn't sure why they were mentioned in previous post.
The three popular Japanese manufacturers of the large format lenses one finds on the used market.

187830

ic-racer
16-Feb-2019, 09:11
Again to point out some Seikos have a lever that pulls and pushes to open the shutter. Shutter needs to be cocked. Some of the shutters with the lever stick, so the blades might stay open when the lever is pushed back in. They later changed the mechanism to a sliding lever that performed better. Are you able to open the shutter to focus?

Can you post a picture of what you have?

Cameraeccentric site used to have a Horseman catalog. That is a great catalog. In addition to demonstrating the extensive line of cameras, lenses and accessories, it shows the basics of view camera movement and tells about lens coverage and other lens specs (no MTF curves, however).

I presume you know how to use a view camera, but I have seen Horseman field cameras destroyed by people that don't know how to open the camera or remove the back or use the lens rail.

Dan Fromm
16-Feb-2019, 11:39
Cameraeccentric site used to have a Horseman catalog. That is a great catalog. In addition to demonstrating the extensive line of cameras, lenses and accessories, it shows the basics of view camera movement and tells about lens coverage and other lens specs (no MTF curves, however).

Still there. http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/horseman_2.html

Tin Can
16-Feb-2019, 12:10
That's a good catalog. I have one close to that issue.

Calumet also had Horseman in their catalogs, but not 8X10 as they were pushing the C!.

The Horseman catalogs can be deceptive especially with part #'s changing for the same part.

I believe the 5X7 Rail Horseman never made it past imagination. I know of several of us searching for it, which is only a standard, frame, back and bellows to use with other rail components.




Still there. http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/horseman_2.html

Mike in NY
16-Feb-2019, 17:52
Ic-racer, thank you for the information on the Seiko shutter's push/pull lever; I've not encountered that before. Thanks also for the information on the rear element of the 90mm lens; I certainly wouldn't want to scratch it. All of my LF experience has been with wooden field cameras (my two 4x5's, two 5x7s, and an 8x10). I recently acquired a Busch Pressman D, knowing that it had limited movements, but was curious as to how well it would do as a smaller kit in a backpack, and I presume the Horseman may open and close similarly to the Pressman (of course, the Horseman would be a step above the Pressman in quality). Next time I'm at my father-in-law's I'll take possession of the Horseman and post some photos.

B.S.Kumar
16-Feb-2019, 23:54
I have seen a couple of Horseman 5x7 monorail cameras. One curious thing about them was that the 5x7 bellows had a Horseman/Sinar front frame, and a choice of Cambo or Toyo rear frame. Very strange, indeed.

Kumar

Tin Can
17-Feb-2019, 00:12
I would expect that as I have had 8x10 Rail Horseman with both variation.

I considered making one.from Cambo parts and creative DIY.

I prefer the more elegant Cambo bits. The light trap design is better.

However the Cambo locks are less secure than Toyo and I use gaff tape for security.

Very easy to unlock a Cambo frame lock by accident.





I have seen a couple of Horseman 5x7 monorail cameras. One curious thing about them was that the 5x7 bellows had a Horseman/Sinar front frame, and a choice of Cambo or Toyo rear frame. Very strange, indeed.

Kumar

Tin Can
17-Feb-2019, 08:32
Correction!



The 120 mm APO Symmar in Copal does NOT fold up inside a HD. I usually have a Rodenstock Geronar 150mm f6.3 aka Calter II-E on that camera. I need more lensboards...


I shot Horseman Topcon Super 90mm in Seiko and a 120 mm APO Symmar in Copal this week with Horseman HD, same scene, same film.

Both negs equally sharp at f22.

I will not post the negs.

I like both lenses. With a HD I want a lens that will fold up inside, both do.

Tom Monego
20-Feb-2019, 19:39
Years ago I had a 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 Horseman I wanted a larger film size and had an add on 4x5 back but then the rear movements didn't make a lot of sense. I did have the 65 Super lens that did cover 4x5, nice lens sharp, it was really good on roll film. Except my final gripe with the 985 was the film holders didn't hold the film flat. So I moved to a 4x5. Had tried 8x10 earlier in my photographic life.