How to print a shutter

[Phasma]

Hi everyone!

I am new here and I want to share the process of printing a huge shutter for a 415mm 3,6 projection lens.

First of all - My experience in large format is only about a year now... but I take fotos since years digitally (crop, later so called "full frame"). My aim is what I call Object oriented Fotography. It goes bejond seperating something from a blurry background. Lighting/Exposure.. vignetting and everything needs to work together to isolate a Subject (or sometimes Subjects) in a Frame. Besides all of the cool reasons to switch to large format (in my case 8x10) - for me it is mostly the small amount of depth of field and the possibility to control it exaclty.

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This is the reason I went from a Symmar 300 5.6 to a Plaubel 300 4.2 and from a Symmar 360 5.6 to this crazy 415 3.6. The only thing is, that this huge 415mm lens had nothing. no mounting option, no lens caps and no shutter or aperture.

So I printed them starting with the mount for my Plaubel camera.

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once I had all this, I needed a shutter. As I am a 3d artist, I started doodeling around in 3DsMax...

http://recordit.co/hUlFcrIs23

when it came to the point of moving the blades, I first went for an unconventional approach

http://recordit.co/xOqml7CTGM

but then ended up with a more cummon technique

http://recordit.co/BvHzHnxcIv

http://recordit.co/jyufpt9uhs

http://recordit.co/JvdmFibCcX

I rendered everything nicely

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and then sent it of for printing @shapeways

Here is the video of the unboxing and initial assembly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh1gsWKGHPU

after some adjustments it was closing properly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWuvHiYekdg

and then I added a bike break for remote control
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc0OYN4Tqso

finally, this is what it looks like when shooting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cn8zT7pGD4


As you might have seen, there is still a little hole in the middle - I calculated it to be around f2000, so in sunny daylight there is currently still the possibility to unintentionally expose the film before/after shooting. I will soon fix this as well :-)

I will show some test-shots in the next post

[Phasma]

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as you can see, the depth of field is nice and shallow.

If you are interested, I can give you the 3d Files.

I hope you enjoy'd this and sorry for my bad english :-)

[B.S.Kumar]

This is a great idea!

Kumar

[Tin Can]

Like!

[Paul Ron]

great job!

[Pere Casals]

Great !!!

Perhaps, for the f/2000 hole, you may attach a little plating behind one of the blades, in the tip, so it will cover the central area.

[Phasma]

Thanks to all!


Great !!!

Perhaps, for the f/2000 hole, you may attach a little plating behind one of the blades, in the tip, so it will cover the central area.

this is exaclty what I had in mind :-)

[ic-racer]

That is great. Even down to the bike break...what an awesome solution to the long throw needed to activate the shutter.

[jp]

Beautiful work!

Many of the older shutters had overlapping blades to stop the light leaking and the overlap was a wear/friction area unfortunately. With 3d printing you could make the overlap be small and stepped/terraced sort of so the blades don't wear. I don't think they would have been able to do that reliably or economically a hundred years ago. Assume it will get sloppy or slightly out of spec over time.

[Phasma]

Many of the older shutters had overlapping blades to stop the light leaking (...)

Yes. but i could not do an overlap at all with 3d printing as material this thin would have been way to fragile/not possible to print. thats why i choose the concave/convex profiles on the blades to stop the light leakage... however this could not be achieved perfectly in the middle where all blades meet as just minimal differences in closing angles will cause a little hole...

[Tin Can]

Have you disassembled a Packard shutter?

https://packardshutter.com


I have very old used ones, that work perfectly, some dated from WWII inside by inspections and simple cleaning.

Not trying to discourage you at all, but you need to know the competition.

[pepeguitarra]

Speechless, 3D artist and mechanical engineer? This is too good to answer so quickly, I am thinking in the potential for the future. Marriage of new technology with an old one. I presume it is only one speed, correct? How do you determine the speed before actually testing it?

[Pere Casals]

Yes. but i could not do an overlap at all with 3d printing as material this thin would have been way to fragile/not possible to print.

I don't know if it is a good idea, but I was thinking to add a sort of light trap to the blade, perhaps it may be a separate part that would be glued to the blade to allow an easier 3d print.

One of the blades would have a different lip that would cover the central area, with the lip having a larger separation from the blade.

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[Phasma]

this is basically done in my design

http://recordit.co/hUlFcrIs23

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so the blades are already overlapping... I thought about something similar to your design as well, but it has two downsides:
-added weight on those fast moving parts
-the extra thickness on only one side makes the construction impossible to move out of the way. in the moment the blades are closed it is also important to have no light leaking from behind (where the blades are mounted). In your construction they would need extra space to move away.. If closed this space would allow light to come through...
I am sure that there are a couple of possible ways around this but they would all include more material (for something like a housing for example) but this would also increase printing costs a lot

I payed 260€ for all of this.

regarding the Packard shutters... I saw them on ebay although the ones from within Germany were too small. I might be wrong here, but my intention to go 4 bladed was the camera shake when operating the shutter. with only two blades this seems tricky

Currently my shutter only supports bulb... meaning it can release as fast as you can pull the leaver :-) (might be 1/8th of a second? - I need to measure this...) however I mostly use Harman Direct Positive Paper @ISO1... unless it is super bright I will not have to realse it faster then some seconds... however I plan to rework the release completely using an arduino and a servo motor. (I also shoot film...).. although I also like the estetics of the bike breake, this will give me a lot more control over the shutter times :-)... or I just use a big nd Filter :-D

[Tin Can]

A few years ago I tried RC Servos from this supplier. https://www.pololu.com/category/205/servos

Too slow back then on a Packard. Air operated Packards vary speed by unit mass/inertia from 1/15 to 1/30. I had a metal blade model.

[Peter De Smidt]

Great job!

[Pere Casals]

Currently my shutter only supports bulb... meaning it can release as fast as you can pull the leaver :-) (might be 1/8th of a second? - I need to measure this...)

With just a solenoid and a timer you may press/release the shutter release cable, for accurate exposures.

Something like this (or a 12V one, for a single 12V batt)
https://www.ebay.es/itm/24V-Adjustable-Pulse-Trigger-Delay-Cycle-Timer-Delay-Switch-Relay-Control-Module/162844444694?hash=item25ea490816:g:4pEAAOSwDApaVg2g:rk:45:pf:0

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The solenoid can be removed from any cheap (or cannibalized) fluid valve, this is $14.

This would be a control box that would be linked to the shutter with the release cable.

I experimented that with a broken shutter, I found that by placing an spring pulling the cable for a faster closing in B position then perhaps 1/30 could be achieved. When I brake another shutter because a DIY CLA I'll think seriously in that way :)

[Phasma]

I am not too much into electronics and I really need to dig deep into this before continue developing, so thanks a lot for your help!

[Pere Casals]

I am not too much into electronics and I really need to dig deep into this before continue developing, so thanks a lot for your help!

By using an standard timer you don't need to mess much with electronics, it's more about finding the right solenoid and drawing a convenient enclosure for the control box...

It's way more difficult what you have done yet...

[skuuterboy]

Well done! This is a great idea and is especially good for use with very large lenses for which Packard Shutters are either not available or are too expensive.

[Jac@stafford.net]

this is basically done in my design

http://recordit.co/hUlFcrIs23

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so the blades are already overlapping.


I cannot express how much I admire your design and CAD skills. That is an awfully large shutter to move and using springs to return it to closed is probably the best course of careful compromise. Four blades seems right.

Slightly overlapping leaves is all I know, but I'm an Olde Pharte. Can carbon fiber be laser cut? Is it opaque enough?

I'm stuck to this thead. Hugely interested.

[Pere Casals]

Can carbon fiber be laser cut?

Anyway it can be cut with waterjet

[Jac@stafford.net]

Anyway it can be cut with waterjet

Another technology I know nothing of!

[Pere Casals]

Another technology I know nothing of!

It's a popular technology, here cutting Aircraft Windscreen Glass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY-zQI7nr9c

It's a water jet at some 4000 Bar, that it takes an abrasive powder before reaching out material.

It's as usual, we pay and they cut. Not expensive... It can cut many materials: metals, rocks, plastic. I guess all clothes we are wearing have been cut in that way, they place many layers of fabric and the jet cuts that.

A benefit is that material is not reheated. It is used to cut aircraft wings from alluminium sheets, because material is not heated the sheet is not dilated while being cut, also holes for rivets have no crystaline changes in the hole boundary, so future cracks are not favoured.

[andrewch59]

Its good to see some of the techo buffs of today coming up with new solutions to an old problem. I have a few old packards and an ilexpo shutter. Would certainly buy a newer more reliable version that doesnt stick quite so regularly (may be a good kickstarter project). Most of the time I use the highly technical Jim Galli shutter with my big lenses.

[Phasma]

"Jim Galli shutter" :D I looked it up - never heared of it - hilarious... also his description! - but if it works it works! In my case just covering the lens with something would have been enough as I rarely go below 1s - but this would have been too easy :-)

Also: I am not an engineer or CAD Person per se. I am a Computer graphics specialist when it comes to visualisation. I used visualisation tools to construct my shutter (so Polygon based instead of NURBS) and I would not recommend this unless you already know polygon modelling well. AND it is important to emphasize that there was a certain amount of luck involved here. I could not know the forces acting on the parts and If those rubber bands are enougth etc... that everything played out that nicely on the first try is not only based on skill ;-)

[Pere Casals]

For the record:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190213104455/https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/the-jim-galli-shutter-for-barrel-lenses-drum-roll-please.13953/
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/the-jim-galli-shutter-for-barrel-lenses-drum-roll-please.13953/

[radii]

Very, very, very cool !!