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kendolinator324058943
3-Feb-2019, 13:43
I have a digital artwork that's 7 x 4 inches and I plan on printing it on transparent film at that size. I'm trying to reduce it in size to 3.5 x 2 inches so it fits on a business card. It will be embossed, so I need a film negative to make the plate.

I plan to use my homemade 4 x 5 camera as a process camera to create a negative where the work is the desired 3.5 x 2 inches.

The reason I'm not just printing the digital transparency smaller to begin with is that my inkjet isn't capable of producing the kind of detail that the artwork demands.

I was under the impression that my lens (G-Claron) is best suited for 1:1 transfer. Will I lose any detail or encounter any issues reducing the size? Is there a more preferable way to accomplish this?

Any advice/comments would be much appreciated.

Doremus Scudder
4-Feb-2019, 12:22
Your G-Claron will do just fine at 1:2. Heck, it'll do fine at infinity as well. You're just making a 50% magnification close-up; not all that demanding. Just make sure you get everything parallel (gridded ground glass helps) and that all four corners and the middle are really in focus before you stop down. Don't forget to compensate for bellows extension.

Best,

Doremus

kendolinator324058943
4-Feb-2019, 23:47
Are you referring to making the image larger? I'm trying to make the image half its original size. Maybe I'm confused.

Doremus Scudder
5-Feb-2019, 12:01
I'm also referring to making the image half it's original size on the negative. It is just close-up photography. A ratio of 1:2 denotes half life-size (1 unit on the film equals 2 units of the original).

So, mark your ground glass with the size you want your final negative to be. Then set up your camera so that your original just fills the marked area. This is going to be the most time-consuming part. It really helps if you have a monorail camera and can move both standards. Anyway, spend your time here getting exactly the right-size image and getting it square and parallel.

Once you have the shot set up. you'll need to adjust your exposure from your meter reading because your bellows will be extended quite a bit. The normal adjustment factor for 1:2 is 2; that means you need to multiply your shutter speed by 2 (e.g., 1/30 x 2 = 1 1/5) or adjust your aperture accordingly, since this is a one-stop adjustment, you would open your aperture one stop.

Alternately, if you have a darkroom, you can use an enlarger to project a half-size image of your negative onto a piece of film. You'll have to test to get your exposure right, which, if you haven't worked it out already, can take a bit of time and film and, of course, must be done in complete darkness. It has the advantage of being able to work with the image a bit easier than with macro photography, but may be more trouble than you need for just one shot.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

Bob Salomon
5-Feb-2019, 12:26
“that means you need to multiply your shutter speed by 2 (e.g., 1/30 x 2 = 1 1/5)”

No, 1/15 not your answer.

I always looked at it as dividing the original shutter speed.

Pfsor
5-Feb-2019, 14:08
“that means you need to multiply your shutter speed by 2 (e.g., 1/30 x 2 = 1 1/5)”

No, 1/15 not your answer.

I always looked at it as dividing the original shutter speed.

You're absolutely right, multiplying a speed gives a higher speed, the opposite of what is necessary in this case.

Pere Casals
5-Feb-2019, 14:14
to reduce it in size to 3.5 x 2 inches so it fits on a business card.

An optimal lens for this job is Linos Rodagon D 2x reversed, search ebay Rodagon D 2x, there are a lot used from Machine Vision systems, it may cost $200 used or less, see sold items

187365

Today Rodagons are sold for industrial inspection cameras of linear sensor type, a similar application is Hasselblad X1 / X5 scanners also sporting a rody inside.

Other enlarger and taking lenses would also perform ok, better is reversed. But the Rodagon R and D are optimized for that magnification range, performing optimally and way beyond a human eye may see.

Bob Salomon
5-Feb-2019, 14:23
An optimal lens for this job is Linos Rodagon D 2x reversed, search ebay Rodagon D 2x, there are a lot used from Machine Vision systems, it may cost $200 used or less, see sold items

187365

Today Rodagons are sold for industrial inspection cameras of linear sensor type, a similar application is Hasselblad X1 / X5 scanners also sporting a rody inside.

Other enlarger and taking lenses would also perform ok, better is reversed. But the Rodagon R and D are optimized for that magnification range, performing optimally and way beyond a human eye may see.

You would not reverse the D for this application. You would just need the proper D. There are 2 different 75mm ones and a 120mm.

Pere Casals
5-Feb-2019, 14:34
Bob, those easily found used are the x1 and x2, the x2 reversed is just optimal for x0.5, which is exactly the requested magnification...

Bob Salomon
5-Feb-2019, 14:59
Bob, those easily found used are the x1 and x2, the x2 reversed is just optimal for x0.5, which is exactly the requested magnification...

You don’t reverse it.

Pere Casals
5-Feb-2019, 15:23
You don’t reverse it.

Bob, are you sure ?

By reversing we also reverse the ray tracing, so if we reverse the lens then we geometrically invert the value for the optimal magnification. With x1 it would not have an effect, but the benefit it should be clear for the x2. Think that enlarger lenses are usually reversed for macro, because of that.

http://extreme-macro.co.uk/reversed-enlarger-lenses/
https://web.archive.org/web/20170218062044/http://extreme-macro.co.uk/reversed-enlarger-lenses/

Bob Salomon
5-Feb-2019, 17:07
Bob, are you sure ?

By reversing we also reverse the ray tracing, so if we reverse the lens then we geometrically invert the value for the optimal magnification. With x1 it would not have an effect, but the benefit it should be clear for the x2. Think that enlarger lenses are usually reversed for macro, because of that.

http://extreme-macro.co.uk/reversed-enlarger-lenses/
https://web.archive.org/web/20170218062044/http://extreme-macro.co.uk/reversed-enlarger-lenses/

Yes, the D is not an enlarging lens!

Pere Casals
5-Feb-2019, 17:17
Yes, the D is not an enlarging lens!

We discussed that before... D stands for Duplication, I know, but we have the x1 and the x2 lenses. D x2 is not duplication but for enlarging to x2.

Anyway, I've to correct that the x2 lens has not to be reversed, because x2 is for projecting, not for taking the image, recommending -0.8 to -0.4 magnification in a camera.

For the APO Rodagon N catalog says "Magnification range: -0.05 … -0.5" so magnification in this case in the camera sense.

Duolab123
5-Feb-2019, 17:37
It's really easy with a real process camera. The magnification / reduction is marked on a big scale hooked to the aperture of the lens. No fiddling with exposure times, once you have a good time established. Bottom line. That Claron will do anything you want it to do . Look up lens extension in a old Kodak master photoguide or on line plug in your numbers and go. Have fun. If I had room I would have a nice horizontal process camera. When you think of cut and paste, remember that it was literally cut and paste in the day.

kendolinator324058943
10-Feb-2019, 02:57
Your G-Claron will do just fine at 1:2. Heck, it'll do fine at infinity as well. Doremus

Are you saying that it would be possible for a 10x reduction in size with my G-Claron 150mm lens? Like if I wanted to reduce a four-foot-long poster to an 8x10 negative? Or would I need a larger lens like a 355mm? Thanks you all are so knowledgeable.

Doremus Scudder
10-Feb-2019, 11:53
Are you saying that it would be possible for a 10x reduction in size with my G-Claron 150mm lens? Like if I wanted to reduce a four-foot-long poster to an 8x10 negative? Or would I need a larger lens like a 355mm? Thanks you all are so knowledgeable.

That's just taking a full frame photo of your poster. Easy-peasy. The G-Claron will perform just fine. You should be far enough away from your original with 150mm that spherical distortion at the corners should not be a problem. The only reason to go to a longer lens would be if that were a problem, e.g., if objects appear "stretched" at the corners and edges. That is a function of angular projection and the distance the camera is from the subject.

Best,

Doremus

kendolinator324058943
10-Feb-2019, 20:09
That's just taking a full frame photo of your poster. Easy-peasy. The G-Claron will perform just fine. You should be far enough away from your original with 150mm that spherical distortion at the corners should not be a problem. The only reason to go to a longer lens would be if that were a problem, e.g., if objects appear "stretched" at the corners and edges. That is a function of angular projection and the distance the camera is from the subject.

Best,

Doremus

Ok thanks again Doremus. Can you recommend the sharpest 8 x 10 film that will pick up the most detail? Someone else referred me to X-ray film. What is usually used in process camera work?