Workflow headache. Can I see examples of your workflow bullet style?

[Laminarman]

I shoot film, scan and use PS and LR (also shoot digital). But for this let's say it's hybrid I'm interested in. I see a LOT of conflicting opinions on workflow and I read The Zen of Post Production which advocates opening an image in LR, adjusting highlights, clipping, tone and color adjustments, assign keywords, labels..etc THEN open a copy with LR adjustments in PS (which is now a permanent file and LR edits are embedded). Do your PS thing then save as an edit which is stacked with the original. Is there a better way?

*Scan image in v850 at the resolution for the print size I desire (have not been scanning supersized and re-sampling down to print due to file size concerns and disc space). What is better, a few scans at different sizes or one master large file?
*Import TIFF into LR
*Assign keywords, tags..etc
*Open a copy with LR adjustments in PS
*Edit in PS and save an edit along with the original

If it's non critical work for family and friends, I'll just edit and print from within LR which is about 75% of what I do. Then I have the issue of how do I keep track of my FINAL printed product so I can find it in the future and duplicate it. So my edit from PS, now saved in LR (Img4555_edit for example) may have these keywords (my keyword list is huge now)

FILM<scanned<BW<Delta100<Rodinal 1:100STAND<FINAL EDIT<Papersize13x19<EpsonEFP<P800<ABWWarm<500CM<LANDSCAPES<Trees<Winter

I then place this file into a smart collection named FINAL PRINTED so in my portfolio boxes I have this collection in hard copy essentially.

Does this seem like a reasonable approach or is there something simpler?

[Tin Can]

I add version numbers like Final 1.13 as i change my final.

Get bigger drives.

Backup.

Many use Flickr Pro for posting any pic as it is so easy to custom size and post.

[Laminarman]

Randy, I thought if you saved with a different file name in PS then LR wouldn't find it? Something about synchronizing files. I have a 2TB HD and two cloud backups going and local Seagate HD backup. Sadly, I never even heard of Flickr PRO : (

[Tin Can]

I don't use LR.

You will get different advice.

There is no correct Digital road and it changes course over time.

I do know where my actual negatives are.




Randy, I thought if you saved with a different file name in PS then LR wouldn't find it? Something about synchronizing files. I have a 2TB HD and two cloud backups going and local Seagate HD backup. Sadly, I never even heard of Flickr PRO : (

[Steven Ruttenberg]

I scan at 6000dpi on V850 as a raw tiff (linear gamma) 4x5
import to PS
Convert using ColorNeg by Colorfast
In PS I use the following, but not always all on adjustment layers
Use Color Balance to see if there is a cast of sorts that need to be corrected
create a blank layer (first one above base image)
On this layer, I do all of my dust deletion using the spot healing, healing, and clone tool. I prefer the Healing brush. I don't remember, but I think the patch tool will work with the blank layer, but maybe not so I rarely use it
Then I create a set of luminosity masks
use these luminosity masks to create selections to use curves, levels, etc as an adjustment layer. Note: I rename each layer I create with the appropriate name so I know what it is. The dust delete layer gets that name, If I use a luminosity mask called light 2, I name the adjustment layer light 2
I also group my layers based on what they do. For example a set of adjustment layers may be for contrast so I group all those together and call the group contrast, etc
I create dodge and burn layers
contrast mask layer/s
Frequency Separation layers too (typically used for portraits, but works awesome to smooth out a blotchy sky and other areas of photo)

Each step is an adjustment layer. I may after making a lot of adjustments, delete the original set of luminosity masks and create a new set
Once I am satisfied, I will save this as the working file (note, it can be quite huge. I have files in the 60-70gb range) This is my archive working file. I have to archive files. The original scanned raw tiff, and then the working file.
From the working file I flattened image, downsize to print size I want at 300dpi (use Canon Printer) use 360 for an Epson Printer
Use high pass sharpening. I start by desaturating the image (can't desaturate if it is a smart layer so I do the desaturating first, then create a smart layer.
I set the layer blend to Overlay (you can use others that suit your goal) and choose high pass from filter>other, I have started using layer blend options to target the mid-tones. You can do the high pass filtering as often as you want, one on top of the other if you think needed, each time targeting a certain area. I typically only need to target the mid-tones or mid-contrast if you will.

Also, I take full advantage of layer masking and painting in combination with luminosity masks, gradient tool, etc. Example, I will adjust picture to get the look I want in a certain area, then either paint out the adjustment elsewhere, or use the gradient tool to filter out the adjustment from areas I don't want and will even do additional painting on the gradient maske.

Make full use of the paint brush and layer masks. Set your flow very low (leave opacity at 100%) and like a painter, make corrections to your masks

While I can keep listing what I do, I also do not use everything or even add more. The image dictates what I need to do based on what I want to achieve.

To be sure, I usually never get there in one pass or even two. It sometimes takes me a couple of iterations to get there (why everything is on an adjustment layer) Forget about LR for editing your photo. Use it to catalogue your images at most. It can't read a PSB file and most certainly cannot read a 70GB file. Make sure your directories are set up logically for how you think, use dates to name your files so you know what is latest and what was first and in between. When all done, get rid of all the intermediate working files and save the final working file.

My file names are something like this: 20180920_0143_Working_20190123.psb so; (date image was taken)_(image file number)_(Working/final_date saved).psb

I also create jpgs along the way to post up for opinion if I want or to show the final image. Intermediate jpgs are used to see if others are seeing what I am, expecially if I am not sure about the look, and for general discussion which helps me finalize. Of course in the end the only real opinion that counts is your own and no one elses.

Check out thse two sites for working on photos

This first one, will provide you with more information on how to use PS and LR than you will probably ever use, but you will find it quite worth while and Aaron is pretty cool for a millenial :)

https://phlearn.com/

The second is Joel Tjintjelaar.

https://www.bwvision.com/

Both these sites have a lot of PS/LR knowledge. Joel, has started into large format since last year as well. They also have g+, and facebook sites as well.

Hope this helps a little.

[Laminarman]

Steve that is very helpful. I am nowhere that proficient in Photoshop! And thank you for the references.

[Alan9940]

This is a pretty wide open question and there are probably as many answers as there are photographers using a hybrid workflow. I would say my own hybrid workflow is darn close to Steven's, except my scanners are a Minolta Scan Elite II for 35mm and an Epson Expression 1680 Pro for LF. I scan at max optical resolution of each scanner into a raw TIFF file which becomes my master (think of it as a raw file that's never touched.) Silverfast Ai Studio 8 is used with the Epson and VueScan with the Minolta. Like Steven, I convert with the ColorPerfect plugin, do my edit, sharpen, then re-purpose for output. When I'm done, I'll have three image files: 1) the raw TIFF master, 2) a working copy (.psd format), and 3) a print copy (TIFF) for output.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

This is a pretty wide open question and there are probably as many answers as there are photographers using a hybrid workflow. I would say my own hybrid workflow is darn close to Steven's, except my scanners are a Minolta Scan Elite II for 35mm and an Epson Expression 1680 Pro for LF. I scan at max optical resolution of each scanner into a raw TIFF file which becomes my master (think of it as a raw file that's never touched.) Silverfast Ai Studio 8 is used with the Epson and VueScan with the Minolta. Like Steven, I convert with the ColorPerfect plugin, do my edit, sharpen, then re-purpose for output. When I'm done, I'll have three image files: 1) the raw TIFF master, 2) a working copy (.psd format), and 3) a print copy (TIFF) for output.

Nice to see I am not to far overboard.

One thing to mention, unlike digital, which can take some time if the file is not a great exposure, is that film, not withstanding dust delete can take as much or as little time as you want. I figure the whole process from mounting negative to final output for me is around 8-16 hours. As you can imagine, this is not a high volume process. If I were doing portraits, it might still take me 2-4 hours or longer for a final image, but then your customer is expecting a perfect image even though there isn't such a thing.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Steve that is very helpful. I am nowhere that proficient in Photoshop! And thank you for the references.

Just takes practice. I hadn't used PS in many years, because I could do 99% of everything in LR for a digital image, but when I went back to film, I found LR wanting and PS was not. So, I dived in and started. I eventually learned most of the lingo and then just sat down and worked an image. And those images can take some time as I posted.

[Laminarman]

Thanks Steve and Alan. I guess what I wanted to hear and see was that there is indeed no "one right way" to do this. I will have to look at that plug in. I don't do professional work so my images don't anywhere near 8-16 hours. Perhaps I don't even have the eye for that much detail :rolleyes:

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Thanks Steve and Alan. I guess what I wanted to hear and see was that there is indeed no "one right way" to do this. I will have to look at that plug in. I don't do professional work so my images don't anywhere near 8-16 hours. Perhaps I don't even have the eye for that much detail :rolleyes:

I am sure you are quite good. I just find it relaxing and when I am working I shut out the rest of the world and it is no longer work, but way to create something, I may be remembered for in the future. A way to be immortal. Don't think you need to spend that much time to create a great image. You may find you need to spend very little time to produce an excellent image. Especially the more "right" the image is when you expose the film.

[Laminarman]

I am sure you are quite good. I just find it relaxing and when I am working I shut out the rest of the world and it is no longer work, but way to create something, I may be remembered for in the future. A way to be immortal. Don't think you need to spend that much time to create a great image. You may find you need to spend very little time to produce an excellent image. Especially the more "right" the image is when you expose the film.

Thank you Steve. I do it for me. But it's a great feeling when someone says "YOU took that?" I'm working my way through a layers book now, I'm just not utilizing them enough right now and it seems a waste not to use the most fundamental tool at my disposal.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Very true on layers. If you need help with PS or LR let me know. I am no expert, but I know a bit or know where to find the info. When you have something, post it up!

[Laminarman]

Will do Steve and thank you for the offer of help!

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Np...

[jnantz]

*Load film into holders
*Judge light and expose film
*Process film
*Turn on Epson Perfection 4870 Photo
*Preview/"reset" values scan at around 1200 or 2400 TIFF @4x5
*Open in PS do dusting, minimal levels burning and dodging
*Convert to JPG, discard TIFF and Save
*Resize to 72dpi and canvas to 6x8 and "save for web"

repeat.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

*Load film into holders
*Judge light and expose film
*Process film
*Turn on Epson Perfection 4870 Photo
*Preview/"reset" values scan at around 1200 or 2400 TIFF @4x5
*Open in PS do dusting, minimal levels burning and dodging
*Convert to JPG, discard TIFF and Save
*Resize to 72dpi and canvas to 6x8 and "save for web"

repeat.

Do you print?

[Corran]

For b&w all I do is isolate the green channel and dump the rest, saving the original tiff file as a single grayscale image to save on file space. This is done with a single click in Photoshop using an "Action" I made. I also do a quick pass with the Spot Healing Brush to get any big dust or hairs off the image. For the "finished" JPEG I have another one-click "Action" to duotone the image to roughly match my normal darkroom prints and do a quick curve, levels, and dodge/burn to the image as needed to get it looking right.

5-10 minutes tops. For color I might spend some more time with color / HSL layers to dial in the colors but other than that, not much.

You don't need LR. I love LR for digital imaging but I don't really understand the use of LR for film scans, unless you use their cataloging system, which I HATE and definitely do not use.

Some have very elaborate editing workflow. I don't really get it personally.

PS: I used to teach Photoshop courses. It's really not hard. Just practice, and anything you want to do that you do not know, just Google it, and someone will have a written or video tutorial. I've taught myself enough Photoshop that I surprise veterans and professionals with techniques that they haven't seen or used.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

For b&w all I do is isolate the green channel and dump the rest, saving the original tiff file as a single grayscale image to save on file space. This is done with a single click in Photoshop using an "Action" I made. I also do a quick pass with the Spot Healing Brush to get any big dust or hairs off the image. For the "finished" JPEG I have another one-click "Action" to duotone the image to roughly match my normal darkroom prints and do a quick curve, levels, and dodge/burn to the image as needed to get it looking right.

5-10 minutes tops. For color I might spend some more time with color / HSL layers to dial in the colors but other than that, not much.

You don't need LR. I love LR for digital imaging but I don't really understand the use of LR for film scans, unless you use their cataloging system, which I HATE and definitely do not use.

Some have very elaborate editing workflow. I don't really get it personally.

PS: I used to teach Photoshop courses. It's really not hard. Just practice, and anything you want to do that you do not know, just Google it, and someone will have a written or video tutorial. I've taught myself enough Photoshop that I surprise veterans and professionals with techniques that they haven't seen or used.

I agree for the most part. I think the amount of time spent on a photo is much a personal preference as choosing what to eat for dinner. Also on what you are trying to achieve. If I add up actual PS time, it is probably an hour total. I just spend time contemplating my image and trying things to achieve what I see in my minds eye. Which as you know, doesn't always work the first time!

[rdeloe]

When I transitioned to digital from film I chose Lightroom. I barely know Photoshop because in the digital world I can do anything I want to do in Lightroom. I'm shooting film again alongside digital, but instead of optical printing I print on the same printer I use for my digital work. I still do all my photo editing in Lightroom. A digital file is a digital file as far as editing goes. But there are some things I have to do in Photoshop. I'm camera scanning my 4x5 negatives. Lightroom is not set up to do inversions easily. You can invert by switching up the tone curve, but then all the sliders are backwards (a real pain). So I invert in Lightroom, export as a TIF, and then import the TIF back into Lightroom. Photoshop comes in at the spotting stage. Lightroom is OK with smaller files for spotting, but it's impossible to use for my camera scanned files (which are around 125 MP after cropping the borders away from the full scan). So I spot the TIFF in Photoshop before bringing it back into Lightroom for final processing and printing.

There are lots of workflows. Some are more efficient than others. But many are simply different. Once you find one that works, it's only worth changing it up if you find a demonstrably better way to work. Of course if you're shooting and processing for a living then the rules are different. A faster workflow is money in your pocket.

[PRJ]

Lightroom is for cataloging (and basic edits). Photoshop is for manipulation. I open the original scan from Lightroom without Lightroom adjustments. Better to just deal with everything in Photoshop.


For digital I use Capture One.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

I have tried Capture One a few times and it seems promising for digital. Raw therapee too. If I ever give up LR probably use Capture One.

[jnantz]

Do you print?

Yups, all the times, but I usually just upload them to my phone.

[Alan9940]

I have tried Capture One a few times and it seems promising for digital. Raw therapee too. If I ever give up LR probably use Capture One.

Raw Therapee is a fine program, but I find its workflow daunting. I can get just as good results, IMO, with Darktable and it's much more intuitive to use. I have used Capture One for about 15 years, but have stopped with v11 because their upgrade pricing is just ridiculous now!

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Haven't tried darktable, but looked at it once because I am eventually going to convert my 5DMKIII from full spectrum to straight up black and white.