PDA

View Full Version : Schneider/Rodenstock lenses: help for a beginner



tintype
20-Jan-2019, 05:49
Hi, I've recently acquired 4 lenses and after searching on Google I still don't know what they are and why on Google the Schneider lenses pictured all seem to have a 'Copal' surround and my Schneider lenses don't?

I wonder if somebody could explain what I have and what camera they would fit?

1- Schneider - KREUZNACH MAKRO-SYMMAR HM 5,6/80 MULTICOATING
2- Schneider - Kreuznach Componon-S 5,6/100
3- Rodenstock Apo-Ronar 1:9 f=150mm MC — COPAL - N0.0
4- Rodenstock Apo-Ronar 1:9 f=240mm MC — COPAL 1

Please find attached photos of them...

Any help would be much appreciated.
Martin.

Bob Salomon
20-Jan-2019, 05:56
Copal is a brand of shutters. Other common shutters were Compur, Prontor, Prontor Press, Prontor Professional, Ilex, etc.. your two process lenses are mounted in Copal 1 and Copal 0 size shutters.
Your other 2 lenses are enlarging lenses for print making and they are rarely in a shutter.

tintype
20-Jan-2019, 06:20
Thank you Bob for your info. Sorry to bother you again, but would you know if the Rodenstock lenses with shutters would fit on the Wolf camera (attached)?

Dan Fromm
20-Jan-2019, 06:53
Pardon me for jumping in. What size is your camera? I ask because on my screen the ground glass measures 41 mm x 55 mm. Its aspect ratio is 1:1.34, seems a bit off for 4x5 and nominal 2x3. Please tell us more about the camera.

As Bob said, the two Rodenstock process lenses are in #0 and #1 shutters respectively. They'll fit on all 2x3 (6x9 in metric) and larger view cameras. However, it isn't clear how long your camera's rail is. If the rail is too short (240 mm plus a bit to allow for the rail riders' thickness) the 240 won't focus to infinity, let alone closer.

I don't know whether you've lurked (read, didn't post) here for a while, but you're a new poster. This forum has resources you might want to investigate. Look through the articles at https://www.largeformatphotography.info/.

We also have a large list of links to useful resources, it is in the first post in this https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138978-Where-to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses discussion. One of its sections has very brief reviews of highly recommended books on LF photography. You'll probably get more from any of them than from discussions in the forums.

Good luck, have fun,

Dan

edit: I just looked harder, it seems that y'r Wolf is probably a Sinar Alpina 4x5, also called A1. You can learn more about the camera by searching for Sinar Alpina.

Bob Salomon
20-Jan-2019, 07:12
Thank you Bob for your info. Sorry to bother you again, but would you know if the Rodenstock lenses with shutters would fit on the Wolf camera (attached)?

You have a Sinar 45 camera that Sinar tried to market at a lower price with a different, not extendible rail. If I remember correctly it was about 18” long. But it has been several decades since these were made and since I have seen one.

The 150 would not cover 45 at infinity at f22. The 240mm will cover.

Good luck with them.

Jac@stafford.net
20-Jan-2019, 07:44
You have a Sinar 45 camera that Sinar tried to market at a lower price with a different, not extendible rail.

The Wolf was also called the Sinar Alpina.

tintype
20-Jan-2019, 07:50
Hi Dan, Thank you too for the info and the links. Yes, I am new to large format photography... I've shot 35mm with a 1972 Nikon F2 for the past 33 years. I'll look forward to reading the articles and discussions plus also the books about LF photography.

My camera's ground glass is 5 x 4 inches. Seems like I will need a plate to fit the lenses onto the camera. I've been given several boxes of 'out-of-date' 5x4 sheet film to experiment on, and a friend in London processes and prints all formats up to 10x8, so I hope to be seeing some results soon...

tintype
20-Jan-2019, 07:51
Thanks Bob, yes, the rail is 19 inches.

Peter Lewin
20-Jan-2019, 08:15
The “plate” you mention is called a lens board, and what you are looking for will be called a Sinar lens board with either a 0 or 1 hole. You need one of each to fit your Copal 0 and Copal 1 shutters. Lens boards come in different, but somewhat standardized sizes. The smaller lens boards which will NOT fit your camera are often called Linhof Technika boards, and a larger standard is the Sinar, which I think is 139mm square.

Luis-F-S
20-Jan-2019, 08:40
Might be a good idea to learn a bit more about lenses, types, use and coverage before buying any more. Of the 4 lenses as noted, only the 240 Apo-Ronar will cover 4x5. The first two are in process mounts with out shutters, the Componon is an enlarging lens, the MaKro-Symmar I suspect is a duplicating lens, the 6" Apo-Ronar is a process lens, and if it's similar to an Artar, it won't cover 4x5. Hopefully, you didn't buy these all to use on your Alpina. L

tintype
20-Jan-2019, 11:23
Hi Peter, I think I must have a Sinar lens board... it fits in nicely, but the Copal 1 and 0 size lenses don't fit into it? I've attached a shot of the lens board and the back of the Copal lenses...

You are right Luis, I need to learn lots before I can shoot with the 5x4. Actually a dear friend and fellow photographer/printer passed away and I'm trying to make sense of the equipment he passed to me. I'm familiar with the 35mm and 120 roll film cameras, but the Sinar Wolf and lenses mentioned, plus the lens board are like jigsaw pieces to me and there seems to be a piece missing to attach the lens!

Peter Lewin
20-Jan-2019, 11:48
Copal shutters are numbered 0,1,2,and 3, from smallest to largest. Each requires a different size hole. But I realized you probably have never tried to mount a lens. You unscrew the rear section of the lens, insert the front/shutter through the hole, thread on the lock ring which when tightened holds the lens to the board, and then screw the rear section back on. In your 2nd thumbnail, the retaining ring (another name for the lock ring) is visible screwed onto the lens right behind the shutter, it is the circular “thing” with notches. (There are a few lenses where you merely remove the retaining ring and the lens fits through the hole without disassembly, you simply re-attach the ring. I can’t tell whether your lenses need the rear cell removed without being there.)

Bob Salomon
20-Jan-2019, 13:01
The Wolf was also called the Sinar Alpina.

Yes, after the Wolf didn’t sell! But then the Alpina didn’t do much either!

Bob Salomon
20-Jan-2019, 13:03
Thank you Bob for your info. Sorry to bother you again, but would you know if the Rodenstock lenses with shutters would fit on the Wolf camera (attached)?

Yes, with boards with the correct hole sizes, 0 and 1.

Luis-F-S
20-Jan-2019, 13:05
Hi Peter, I think I must have a Sinar lens board... it fits in nicely, but the Copal 1 and 0 size lenses don't fit into it? I've attached a shot of the lens board and the back of the Copal lenses...

You are right Luis, I need to learn lots before I can shoot with the 5x4. Actually a dear friend and fellow photographer/printer passed away and I'm trying to make sense of the equipment he passed to me. I'm familiar with the 35mm and 120 roll film cameras, but the Sinar Wolf and lenses mentioned, plus the lens board are like jigsaw pieces to me and there seems to be a piece missing to attach the lens!

It would probably be worthwhile if you can find someone local to at least get you on the right track. There have to be large format hobbyists near you. You don't mention in your profile the country where you live, you may want to add it. Much more effective than making mistakes on gear. L

Leigh
20-Jan-2019, 13:19
Copal shutters are numbered 0,1,2,and 3, from smallest to largest.
There is no Copal #2 shutter.

I don't know why not. Perhaps Bob Salomon knows.

- Leigh

Leigh
20-Jan-2019, 13:25
Hi Martin,

Some basic info regarding large-format lenses like those you have.

There are actually two components, the optical lens assembly and the shutter. The shutter is the large diameter structure near the middle. The optical lens assembly consists of two parts called "cells" that screw into the shutter. The "front cell" is on the side of the shutter with the time and aperture scales.

You must remove (unscrew) the rear cell in order to mount the shutter on a lensboard. That allows you to unscrew the retaining ring* on the back of the shutter, push the shutter through the lensboard hole, then reinstall the retaining ring and tighten it. You need a lens wrench or similar device to accomplish this. Then screw the rear cell back on.

Note that the threads on the cells and the retaining ring are very fine. DO NOT exert any significant pressure or torque when manipulating them. They should screw on or off easily if aligned properly.

- Leigh

*NB Note that the retaining ring has a smooth section with a diameter smaller than the flange with the drive slots. That smooth section goes into the hole on the lensboard.

Jac@stafford.net
20-Jan-2019, 13:42
Yes, after the Wolf didn’t sell! But then the Alpina didn’t do much either!

That is unfortunate because it was a good camera. I got mine for $75. Still like it.

Willie
20-Jan-2019, 20:53
Some good articles that will help you on the front page of this website. You might get a book such as Using the View Camera, by Steve Simmons. Both will help.

Alan Gales
21-Jan-2019, 09:54
In your post #11 second photo I can see the retaining ring for securing your shutter and lens to a lens board. You need to unscrew the ring, stick the shutter and rear element through the board and then screw it back on using a lens wrench to tighten it. If the ring is tight and won't unscrew then remove the rear lens element first by unscrewing it so you can get your fingers around the retaining ring better.

Here is a picture of a lens wrench at B&H.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/131992-USA/Rodenstock_260600_Metal_Lens_Wrench.html/?ap=y&gclid=Cj0KCQiA-JXiBRCpARIsAGqF8wW1VSpfEoXzT8x1aXf3K4mmVcEphHdRJzCLUDivpGAZbJ4BKbc-SMoaAg0GEALw_wcB&lsft=BI%3A514&smp=Y

Welcome to the forum!

Roger Thoms
21-Jan-2019, 11:26
That is unfortunate because it was a good camera. I got mine for $75. Still like it.

Yes good camera, plus despite what Bob stated, mine came with a 6” extension rail. Now I bought mine used quite a few years ago and paid $750. This included standard and bag bellows, nice focus loupe, 2 Lens boards,and the bellows clips and hex rod for using the extra bellow as a lens hood. Still have mine and use it occasionally.

Roger.

Jac@stafford.net
21-Jan-2019, 12:28
Yes good camera, plus despite what Bob stated, mine came with a 6” extension rail. Now I bought mine used quite a few years ago and paid $750. This included standard and bag bellows, nice focus loupe, 2 Lens boards,and the bellows clips and hex rod for using the extra bellow as a lens hood. Still have mine and use it occasionally.

Roger.

You did alright! I forgot, but mine came with a spare main rail which I cut short to better carry it with a 47mm SA XL.

tintype
22-Jan-2019, 02:40
Thanks Leigh, Jac, Willie, Alan, Luis, Peter and Bob,
Everything now cleaned up and almost ready to go on an outing. I'll be reading more on Large Format Photography over the coming weeks and have seen copies of Using the View Camera on eBay at reasonable prices...
Much appreciated for everyones help,
Martin.

ruilourosa
22-Jan-2019, 06:30
There is #2 shutters, i have two of them, one for heliar 180 4.5 and another for angulon 165 6.8, the shutters are compur and from the 50-60´s with speeds up to 1/200, a bit clunky and noisy...

but i really dont know why the size was descontinued...

Louis Pacilla
22-Jan-2019, 06:36
There is #2 shutters, i have two of them, one for heliar 180 4.5 and another for angulon 165 6.8, the shutters are compur and from the 50-60´s with speeds up to 1/200, a bit clunky and noisy...

but i really dont know why the size was descontinued...

No one here said there was no Compur shutter #2 as the conversation was only discussing Copal shutters in which there was NEVER a size 2 Copal shutter made.

ruilourosa
22-Jan-2019, 14:46
sorry boss...

Jac@stafford.net
22-Jan-2019, 16:16
I have never been disappointed by a Rodenstock lens in my fifty years of photography.

Leigh
22-Jan-2019, 16:52
I have never been disappointed by a Rodenstock lens in my fifty years of photography.
Most of my lenses are Rodenstock APO Sironar-S, being all available in 150mm to 300mm focal lengths.
I've been extremely pleased with those.

Shorter and longer than those are a mix of Nikon and Fujinon.

- Leigh