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popdoc
10-Jan-2019, 06:01
Building out the new darkroom, and have on the to do list “compressor, with tubing to printing areas”.

Who has done it? Is it worth it? If so, how did you do it? Tubing on the ceiling with nozzle hanging by the side of the printing area(s). What pressure did you set the regulator?

I imagine it’s most important to keep the noisy little beast in another room ;)....

Thanks!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Paul Ron
10-Jan-2019, 06:33
keep the preasure low and be sure to have a dryer n a filter inline. Oiless compressors are cheap, you can get a nice 1gal unit for $60 mostly used for air brushing, no need for anything big or fancy, you are only blowing dust.... unless you want to also use it for framing nail guns? There are very quiet compressors on the market but they sell for a premium. Besides the compressor has a reserve tank so it doesnt cycle that often.

If you are a handy DIYer, check online for converting small refrigerator compressors for air?.... they are very quiet n easy to build.

Denny
10-Jan-2019, 06:37
I've done it, many years ago. I used the compressor to clean film holders, never used it at the enlarger. I found it very useful. If I were doing it again I'd look at "portable airbrush compressors", small and inexpensive (ballpark $50). Should be OK to leave in the darkroom, consider adding an inline filter to catch anything you don't want to spray onto your film.

Pere Casals
10-Jan-2019, 06:41
Who has done it? Is it worth it?

It depends on the amount of activity, a 8 pack of canned air containers is $43 or less, so calculate depending on how long it takes for you to spend a can.

Randy Moe
10-Jan-2019, 07:16
Yes, I just installed compressed air in my new darkroom.

I have 1 gallon oilless compressor (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AQK78/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) set to 90 psi. In the furnace room. Very quiet! 'Piped' with high grade Canadian rubber hose to three 25 psi regulators with water dryers and filters.

Two regulators are set to 12 psi for gas burst development tanks and the third set to 25 psi with very flexible poly hose. A low pressure pencil blow gun for anything I need.

The USA made blow gun is easily adjusted from slight flow which barely bubbles water and anywhere up to 25 psi. OSHA Legal.

Pictures soon when I video my new DR.

John Kasaian
10-Jan-2019, 07:19
I do things backwards with a mini shop vac and micro attachments:o

freecitizen
10-Jan-2019, 07:26
I have one of these in the darkroom .... https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1413175-REG/metro_datavac_117_117629_electric_duster_500w_with.html

I find it good for blowing out film holders, neg carriers, and general blasting things with air.

Room air is scrubbed with a fine filter which recirculates the air and a cheap negative ion generator. I vacuum out the darkroom periodically.

I am extremely careful to exclude dust when drying my negs, and store them immediately in Printfile neg sleeves.

Glass carriers on my DeVere ..... no real problems with dust when enlarging. So far, so good.

Rick A
10-Jan-2019, 08:11
I use a Giottos "Rocket" blower in my darkroom, and keep a small electrostatic air cleaner running. I almost never have any dust issues, and the small blower is all I've ever needed for my negatives. As for dusting other items, a small vacuum is better, it captures dust instead of redistributing it.

Randy Moe
10-Jan-2019, 08:52
I might add, I use all methods posted so far.

The Rocket is always nice to have handy and perhaps the safest.

I do not use can air.

William Whitaker
10-Jan-2019, 09:26
Few will probably agree with me, but I am of the opinion that a compressor in a darkroom is mostly a means of redistributing the dust. Dust which is blown away by the compressed air is going to re-settle somewhere else. Years ago when I built a darkroom I designed a positive-pressure ventilation system. Air was filtered before entering the darkroom and moved across the room as a high-volume, low-pressure system, exiting the far side of the sink. That system worked very well for me. But I do realize YMMV.

I think it's important to remove or at least minimize dust generators. My room had been carpeted. I removed that, prepped and painted the concrete slab floor with a glossy floor enamel. (Behr Porch & Floor Enamel in battleship gray from Home Depot) I had cushion mats on which to stand. But they could be pulled up to allow wet-mopping the entire floor. That was a major help toward dust mitigation. All walls and the ceiling I painted with a semi-gloss paint which took wiping well. So the walls and ceiling could be "mopped" as well as the floorThe closet in that room (formerly a bedroom) had been cleared of all clothing and prefab kitchen cabinets were installed. I lost a closet, but I gained a very nice dry-side work area. In fact, those cabinets formed the plenum for air coming into the room, pushed by a re-purposed furnace fan in the hallway closet next to the bedroom/darkroom. Air entered behind the cabinets, exited underneath the cabinets, moving across the room, up and over the sink to draw processing fumes away, then exited through a light-tight vent in the window. A booster fan at the exhaust was a help because of prevailing winds at that location which would tend to blow into that window (were it open).

The other thing I did and which I highly recommend was to electrically ground all equipment (especially enlargers) to eliminate potentials which could draw and hold dust). If you've ever noticed an enlarger with a screw by which there is an earth-ground symbol, that's exactly what it's for.

If you still want a point of use compressor, go with as little pressure as possible. You really don't want to kick up a whirlwind of dust to be redistributed over your work and your equipment.

Jim Noel
10-Jan-2019, 09:42
I am also a believer in positive ventilation. I reversed a "darkroom ventilation" fan and it has simplified my life immensely. All incoming air is filtered through a 5 micron filter.

Drew Wiley
10-Jan-2019, 12:24
You can either waste hundreds of dollars on canned air over the years, potentially with nasty propellants in them too, or buy a good compressor. I have not only sold thousands of compressors prior to retirement, but designed them. Today you can get some very quiet ones that run cool (the opposite - running hot, leads to condensation in the tank, and then water in the air line), that are fairly affordable, are compact, and use relatively little electricity. But don't be fooled by all the too good to be true false labeling, ridiculously low prices, and toy construction of typical home center compressors. I recommend LOW RPM units which produce volume not by revving up some tiny piston to the noise level of a chainsaw, but that potentially use two small tandem pistons at lower RPM. Really good US made small portable compressors are now out of production. But some relatively decent imports like the Rol Air JC10 are readily available and almost as quiet as a refrigerator. Then you want to add a micro-filtration system to your air lines, which should be of a hose material that doesn't break down and shed grease or particulates itself. If you pay ten bucks for a hose, you are a fool. Degrease all fittings and airguns with alcohol or similar solvent before darkroom use. You don't need high pressure in a darkroom; set the regulator around 30 to 40 PSI. And never ever ever believe the horsepower and CFM ratings on consumer grade compressors; it's all BS. The compressor should be in an adjacent room, with the air line going through the wall. It's not the air coming out of the hose you need to worry about
stirring up dust, but the rotating fan cooling the compressor motor itself. But if your darkroom is just too damn dusty to begin with, don't ask for my sympathy. I've spoken previously about the correct kinds of vacuums for darkrooms, which you're not going to find at Cheapo Depot either.

Steven Ruttenberg
10-Jan-2019, 14:50
attach an ionization nozzle to hose outlet and ionization device to the compressor side to keep static electricity to a minimum. Water trap and water filter as well.

Jac@stafford.net
10-Jan-2019, 15:46
You can also use a HEPA filtered room-sized machine running full time in the darkroom.
I do. It works and is economical. Just leave it running and be happy.

Steven Ruttenberg
10-Jan-2019, 16:54
My office, is 1/4 of the upstairs and is open to the whole house. It would look awkward if I closed it off.

I am thinking of something like this

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dust-Free-Room-Workshop-Laminar-Flow-Hood-Bench-Air-Flow-Clean-Workstation/253496628425?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Jac@stafford.net
10-Jan-2019, 17:02
My office, is 1/4 of the upstairs and is open to the whole house. It would look awkward if I closed it off.

I am thinking of something like this

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dust-Free-Room-Workshop-Laminar-Flow-Hood-Bench-Air-Flow-Clean-Workstation/253496628425?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Not good unless you are soldering under it.

Greg
10-Jan-2019, 17:29
Have and use a Paasche Air Compressor which is a rather small unit made for artists doing air brushing. Very small and compact and quiet. The Paasche has been running strong since the 1980s. Not all that powerful a machine which what I wanted. Replaced a small commercial air compressor that took up too much space, was down right loud, and way too powerful. Also have 2 small HEPA filtered machines pretty much running all the time in the darkroom. One at floor level and the other one on a shelf pulling air (and dust) from above my film loading counter. Since running them rarely have to vacuum up dust and dirt off the floor.

Drew Wiley
10-Jan-2019, 17:31
Any serious cleanroom operation needs it all : micro-filtered, water and oil free compressed air, true HEPA vac ports (quite different from an ordinary vac with a swapped-out filter), ambient antistatic air collection (those ordinary circulating air cleaners can help, but they aren't anstistatic), therefore perhaps a supplementary ionized air gun too, antistatic enamel walls as well as other surfaces, lint-free clothing, filtered room input air. You can take this list as far as you wish. Semi-fussy is OK for me when doing black and white printing, because the paper itself generates link. Color printing requires a different level of control, at least in advanced methods which might involve multiple film masks, each capable of cumulative dust. If any of you needs a super-duper soft film wiping cloth, I have a few spare cats laying around. Fortunately, my darkrooms are in a completely different building.

Steven Ruttenberg
10-Jan-2019, 17:38
Not good unless you are soldering under it.

It worked for us at NASA. As long as the filter was clean and all work was done under the hood. You of course had to turn it on well before hand to be sure to filter out any dust and we used it for assembly things that needed to be dust free. There are also other versions, laminar flow, horizontal flow, depends on what level you need. This is a positive air pressure so it is not sucking things up, but rather blowing in filtered air and maintaining an air curtain with positive pressure to keep particles out.

Steven Ruttenberg
10-Jan-2019, 17:40
Any serious cleanroom operation needs it all : micro-filtered, water and oil free compressed air, true HEPA vac ports (quite different from an ordinary vac with a swapped-out filter), ambient antistatic air collection (those ordinary circulating air cleaners can help, but they aren't anstistatic), therefore perhaps a supplementary ionized air gun too, antistatic enamel walls as well as other surfaces, lint-free clothing, filtered room input air. You can take this list as far as you wish. Semi-fussy is OK for me when doing black and white printing, because the paper itself generates link. Color printing requires a different level of control, at least in advanced methods which might involve multiple film masks, each capable of cumulative dust. If any of you needs a super-duper soft film wiping cloth, I have a few spare cats laying around. Fortunately, my darkrooms are in a completely different building.

At NASA, we had a clean room from hell. Anti-static everything, large ionizers, humidity controlled, tons of filtered air, special smocks we had to wear, alarmed wrist straps, etc. Everything was grounded, filtered, ionized air, etc. You couldn't find a turd from a dust particle if you tried, nor generate a static charge big enough for zapping the heart of a lizard. If I had that for my work area, I would be in heaven.

Steven Ruttenberg
10-Jan-2019, 17:50
You can either waste hundreds of dollars on canned air over the years, potentially with nasty propellants in them too, or buy a good compressor. I have not only sold thousands of compressors prior to retirement, but designed them. Today you can get some very quiet ones that run cool (the opposite - running hot, leads to condensation in the tank, and then water in the air line), that are fairly affordable, are compact, and use relatively little electricity. But don't be fooled by all the too good to be true false labeling, ridiculously low prices, and toy construction of typical home center compressors. I recommend LOW RPM units which produce volume not by revving up some tiny piston to the noise level of a chainsaw, but that potentially use two small tandem pistons at lower RPM. Really good US made small portable compressors are now out of production. But some relatively decent imports like the Rol Air JC10 are readily available and almost as quiet as a refrigerator. Then you want to add a micro-filtration system to your air lines, which should be of a hose material that doesn't break down and shed grease or particulates itself. If you pay ten bucks for a hose, you are a fool. Degrease all fittings and airguns with alcohol or similar solvent before darkroom use. You don't need high pressure in a darkroom; set the regulator around 30 to 40 PSI. And never ever ever believe the horsepower and CFM ratings on consumer grade compressors; it's all BS. The compressor should be in an adjacent room, with the air line going through the wall. It's not the air coming out of the hose you need to worry about
stirring up dust, but the rotating fan cooling the compressor motor itself. But if your darkroom is just too damn dusty to begin with, don't ask for my sympathy. I've spoken previously about the correct kinds of vacuums for darkrooms, which you're not going to find at Cheapo Depot either.

I have been looking for a new compressor, so what would be a good compressor? I know you mentioned one above, but are there any others? Also, what would be a good micro filtration system to put in line with the hose? What kind of hose too? And lastly, what type of vacuum cleaner would be best to get?

Fred L
10-Jan-2019, 18:18
If you're going to get a compressor, I strongly suggest finding the quietest one you can afford. I have a Campbell Hausfeld and while great for shop work, it was way too loud. Found a used Gast and it's so much quieter. Make sure you drain the tank every now and then other wise the compressor may shut down (safety feature ?).

I have a pressure gauge before the line leading to the pistol trigger blower. Lower pressure is necessary if you're using glassless carriers.

Drew Wiley
10-Jan-2019, 18:22
There are several private labels of that particular compressor, but I mentioned just one because it is specifically identifiable. There are more junk toy compressors out there than a puppy farm has fleas. I personally use Thomas compressors, but they're no longer made. I don't know if the imports will last anywhere as long, but home darkroom use isn't anywhere near as demanding as construction or cabinet shop applications. True HEPA vacs imply far more than just a HEPA filter, but a totally sealed system with no back-door routes for dust to get past. I strongly recommend the smaller Festool units, but they aren't cheap; allow several hundred dollars, and then pray your wife won't like it so much that you never get it back! (They're quiet and pick up everything an ordinary vac merely scatters; antistatic too.) Micro in-line filters aren't cheap either, but you don't need anything big, so fifty bucks or so would be an ample budget apiece for those. Again, my own are more industrial duty and not routinely available; but places like Grainger offer a selection. They're rated in microns. You need 1/4 pipe-thread ports (nothing big). If you have a quiet cool-running compressor it won't collect too much water, but you need to routinely drain your compressor tank using the valve at the bottom. Hoses easy to keep clean are made from nylon or polyester. These don't take the kind of abuse typical on construction project; but hopefully, a darkroom will be past that phase when you get to using it. Avoid cheap rubber hoses from auto parts stores, home centers etc, also vinyl hoses - which might resemble polyester hoses, but are far more fragile.

Peter De Smidt
10-Jan-2019, 18:32
I used to drive by the Thomas factory regularly. It's too bad they no longer make compressors. My neighbor has one.

Drew Wiley
10-Jan-2019, 18:38
Thomas made a good portable compressor but wasn't very smart about marketing them. They were bought out by Gardner-Denver, who moved mfg to Louisiana. The small Thomas pumps per se are still made, but are sold only for in-line industrial applications.

Pieter
10-Jan-2019, 18:48
I used to use a tank of C02 for my airbrush. No noise whatsoever. I would imagine that should work in the darkroom.

Drew Wiley
10-Jan-2019, 18:48
If you want to study a serious cleanroom operation look at pharmaceutical plants. My wife worked in biotech quality control for about six years. Some of our friends worked in production at the local Bayer plant. All the walls and floors were stainless steel and steam-cleaned before every run. After the workers were all suited up they couldn't open a door until the production run was over, even to go to the bathroom, or the entire batch had to be rejected (at an average cost of about a million dollars per gallon). The inspectors came into the room in advance and put on new white gloves. One of them would run his finger around the inside edge of the overhead air cleaner. If his glove picked up any dirt or discoloration at all, someone got fired.

Drew Wiley
10-Jan-2019, 18:54
High pressurized gases require very expensive safety valves on the tanks, prior to a secondary low-pressure regulator. If anyone tells you otherwise, they're playing with a pipe bomb. CO2 isn't an inert gas anyway, so don't see the logic in this case, or the health aspect in a confined space.

Pieter
10-Jan-2019, 19:41
CO2 tanks were used for years in illustrator's and retouching studios. I don't recall ever having heard of an accident involving them. And don't restaurants use them for carbonated beverage dispensers?

Eric Rose
10-Jan-2019, 19:50
I use a scuba tank with a set of regs attached with a nozzle attached to one of the low pressure hoses.

Leszek Vogt
10-Jan-2019, 20:53
Eric, I like your idea (controlled output) best. Maybe couple small oxygen tanks (for disabled folks) ? Use one till it needs recharging, and then switch to the other. I'd add, that wiping off all the walls once in the while (w/special wet mop for that), it would help any sort of accumulation, shift or stirring of dust.

Jac@stafford.net
10-Jan-2019, 21:15
It worked for us at NASA. As long as the filter was clean and all work was done under the hood.

NASA must have special little people to work under those hoods. Maybe they did contact prints of Minox film.

Steven Ruttenberg
10-Jan-2019, 22:16
I misunderstood what you were referring too. My bad, sorry.

That one is 4 foot long 2 foot deep and about 18 in tall working area. Another model I was looking at was about twice as tall for working area and about 30 in deep. The only thing I need room for is height to open scan lid all the way and it is around 18 in fully opened deep enough to stay behind air curtain.

I can also build one if I want :) but rather buy it if possible.

The other option is to hang to curtains to Seal off room a few hours before working and run an heppa filtering system and ionizing air system. Not perfect, but would work to cut down on dust.

Steven Ruttenberg
10-Jan-2019, 22:17
NASA must have special little people to work under those hoods. Maybe they did contact prints of Minox film.


Special little person would not be me. Former body builder so 5'10 250, I don't think I would fit. :)

Steven Ruttenberg
10-Jan-2019, 22:23
High pressurized gases require very expensive safety valves on the tanks, prior to a secondary low-pressure regulator. If anyone tells you otherwise, they're playing with a pipe bomb. CO2 isn't an inert gas anyway, so don't see the logic in this case, or the health aspect in a confined space.

Agreed. I am trained on dry nitrogen tanks filled to 5000psi. Not that tank would burst, but if a hose ruptured, you could be injected with high pressure gas and most likely die, or get a nasty cut or amputation. Plus, in inclosed area, a small leak of nitrogen or co2 and one could find themselves conversing with St. Peter.

Peter De Smidt
10-Jan-2019, 22:35
They make washable sticky silicone rollers for clean rooms. I tried a smaller version made for records, and it works great: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07924FHY6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Steven Ruttenberg
10-Jan-2019, 22:50
They make washable sticky silicone rollers for clean rooms. I tried a smaller version made for records, and it works great: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07924FHY6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03__o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Doesn't mark the negative or anything?

Peter De Smidt
11-Jan-2019, 08:39
In my case, no. Use at own risk, of course.

Steven Ruttenberg
11-Jan-2019, 10:30
Worth a shot. There some others out there made of foam.

https://www.cleanroomsupplies.com/cleanroom-supplies/sticky-rollers/

Of course it is about 100 dollars for a box of a 100, so 10 bucks each. The tacky rollers are 4 inches, while the sticky foam rollers are 9 inches. Either would work.

Gonna try this and see if it helps. Thanks for the heads up.

Pieter
11-Jan-2019, 10:57
On the topic of dust, does the Zero Stat gun work well for negatives?

Steven Ruttenberg
11-Jan-2019, 11:49
Don't know, who makes it?

Pieter
11-Jan-2019, 11:55
Made by Milty. Primary use is for vinyl records.

Drew Wiley
11-Jan-2019, 12:48
Gosh, I was once at a trade show where some dumbass sales rep was wearing a CO2 canister on his hip with a little brass regulator, cheapo airline, and cheapo Chinese pneumatic finish nailer - all for $75 ! I asked him if he knew that he was importing and selling was totally illegal in the US. He's sneered at me and told me he did this all the time - it's his job, and that it would save people a lot of money. I then asked if he had factored in the cost of a catastrophic hip replacement; and told him that if he didn't leave, and decided to still endanger attendees as well as himself, I'd call authorities. No joke. I have seen these kinds of things explode. Fortunately, legit pressurized gas suppliers and welding houses rent appropriate heavy tanks with legal regulators. Likewise, legit scuba gear. But that still leaves room for numerous boneheads jerry-rigging dangerous stuff. Just pointing out the distinction, and not implying any of you are that dumb. Don't get me talking about restaurants - they get routine inspection for various reasons. For all I know, the rats in some of them are sniffing glue.

Steven Ruttenberg
11-Jan-2019, 19:19
Gosh, I was once at a trade show where some dumbass sales rep was wearing a CO2 canister on his hip with a little brass regulator, cheapo airline, and cheapo Chinese pneumatic finish nailer - all for $75 ! I asked him if he knew that he was importing and selling was totally illegal in the US. He's sneered at me and told me he did this all the time - it's his job, and that it would save people a lot of money. I then asked if he had factored in the cost of a catastrophic hip replacement; and told him that if he didn't leave, and decided to still endanger attendees as well as himself, I'd call authorities. No joke. I have seen these kinds of things explode. Fortunately, legit pressurized gas suppliers and welding houses rent appropriate heavy tanks with legal regulators. Likewise, legit scuba gear. But that still leaves room for numerous boneheads jerry-rigging dangerous stuff. Just pointing out the distinction, and not implying any of you are that dumb. Don't get me talking about restaurants - they get routine inspection for various reasons. For all I know, the rats in some of them are sniffing glue.

Rats sniffing glue. Yee haw

Duolab123
11-Jan-2019, 19:51
I have a 20 gallon compressor, I put a ball valve on it, before the quick connect. This keeps the air in the tank, I don't think the compressor runs more than once or twice a week when I am really using. I have a old Kodak static eliminator, that has the optional blower brush. Works great. However the E.M.P. that it gives off when you fire it up (5kV) causes my enlarger controller to reset ;). I think this is U2 CIA surplus, for 10 inch spy film. :-)

186316

Duolab123
11-Jan-2019, 19:56
Oh I forgot, a friend of mine is a custom paint guy he showed me these they sell fakes at Harbor Freight, get the real thing put it on right before the blow gun 10 bucks ea. Worth every nickel, last forever.

https://www.autorefinishdevilbiss.com/products/devilbiss/parts-accessories/whirlwind-filter-disposable-air-filter.aspx

Steven Ruttenberg
12-Jan-2019, 01:20
Oh I forgot, a friend of mine is a custom paint guy he showed me these they sell fakes at Harbor Freight, get the real thing put it on right before the blow gun 10 bucks ea. Worth every nickel, last forever.

https://www.autorefinishdevilbiss.com/products/devilbiss/parts-accessories/whirlwind-filter-disposable-air-filter.aspx

I found some good ones on McMaster Carr too.

Peter De Smidt
12-Jan-2019, 07:29
I've got that one, The Kodak anti static device, although I don't have the blower brush. When I turn it on, I find myself saying, "It's alive! Alive!"

Randy Moe
12-Jan-2019, 08:35
Forgot about those and I used to sell them to Auto Paint Shops.

Definitely getting a dozen, they must be replaced before they fill up!

And if you are piping a shop or DR with metal pipe, there are very exact ways to do it to lessen water and dirt.

The million sq ft factory I worked had miles of compressed air with drops as close as every 6 feet with auto water filters popping off spit all the time.

A huge air compressor fed this system and they check the test dept to see how many Vortex Tubes we had running. They make hot and cold air while using a lot of compressed air. Very handy.


I found some vood ones on McMaster Carr too.

Sfroza
12-Jan-2019, 08:47
I'm using an ionizing blower of cut static that I found on the auction site for $50. Mine is a Simco. I use it when I load 4x5 film holders, bulk load 35mm and cleaning holders, cameras, and lenses. All of my cleaning is out side of the darkroom. In side of the darkroom I only use a vacuum with the canister that is on the outside of the room all other cleaning is with distilled water and lab wipes or cotton mop. Not much different than maintaining a clean room.

No compressed air in the darkroom. It only pushes the problem everywhere. YMMV.

Michael

invisibleflash
12-Jan-2019, 20:29
I had one with a tank. I pumped it up before printing. No tubes, just a hose and air gun.

jvo
12-Jan-2019, 20:48
i've lived in 3 countries and 4 different states in america, each long enough to setup a darkroom. i hate to spot prints - i have been fortunate to have little to no problems with dust on negatives and prints - ever!!!

i hope i haven't jinx'ed myself now that i've written that - boy, i'd hate to have to go through some of the stuff people on this thread have resorted to... i have a camel hair brush for my negatives before i print them and vacuum my darkroom on an infrequent basis!!!

demon dust don't darken (lighten!) my door:mad:

Steven Ruttenberg
13-Jan-2019, 09:39
I just saw my room in daylight (office where I scan for my digital prints) OMG! I can't believe I am breathing this crap in!

Randy Moe
13-Jan-2019, 10:39
At least your city recognizes the problem

https://www.mesaaz.gov/residents/environmental/air-quality

https://www.mesaaz.gov/residents/environmental/air-quality/particulate-matter

I remember when LA was so bad I wouldn't go there


I just saw my room in daylight (office where I scan for my digital prints) OMG! I can't believe I am breathing this crap in!

Drew Wiley
13-Jan-2019, 16:29
You should have seen it here when forest fire ash was falling everywhere for two weeks until rain finally came. Actually, it was more burnt up suburbia ingredients than wood ash -yellowish and way more unhealthy. Most of the year the ocean breeze takes stuff the opposite direction.

Steven Ruttenberg
14-Jan-2019, 08:37
At least your city recognizes the problem

https://www.mesaaz.gov/residents/environmental/air-quality

https://www.mesaaz.gov/residents/environmental/air-quality/particulate-matter

I remember when LA was so bad I wouldn't go there

Interesting, did not know about that. My house is a sealed house the way Pulte built it, but I still cannot believe the dust levels. I am thinking of putting hepa filters on all the outlets for the A/C unit/s (where the air comes out) I have them where you typically put them, but this is ridiculous. I may see how much room sized, Hepa/ionizers are and put the biggest one I can in each room. It's no wonder we all keep getting sick. This is as modern a house as they come. We barely open our doors and windows.

Steven Ruttenberg
14-Jan-2019, 08:53
Who knows, probably junk.

https://www.amazon.com/Rabbit-Air-MinusA2-Ultra-Purifier/dp/B079K7RM29/ref=as_li_ss_tl?imprToken=Bu49jLvKtYu2U9Mn3MoCkw&slotNum=0&ie=UTF8&qid=1514595928&sr=8-3&keywords=minusa2&linkCode=ll1&tag=hag-top10list-20&linkId=6dda5d7d4ac127556b5a0da6946c2225&th=1

Steven Ruttenberg
14-Jan-2019, 09:08
Or perhaps this? A couple in my office, one in dark room, and a few around the house in general.

https://www.honeywellstore.com/store/products/honeywell-hepa-bluetooth-smart-air-purifier-hpa8350b.htm

Peter De Smidt
14-Jan-2019, 09:25
Check out consumer reports. They've done a comparison on these. If I remember rightly, the top one was from Blue Air. Perhaps, https://www.amazon.com/Blueair-205-Performance-HEPASilent-Filtration/dp/B01L7VZX52/ref=asc_df_B01L7VZX52/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167141564568&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13941485239976483392&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1027966&hvtargid=pla-313079739536&psc=1

Randy Moe
14-Jan-2019, 09:35
I had an IQAir stack filter (https://www.iqair.com/?utm_source=adwords&utm_term=iqair&utm_campaign=Branded+-+Search+-+US&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_tgt=kwd-53190646&hsa_src=g&hsa_mt=e&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_cam=699127331&hsa_kw=iqair&hsa_acc=8638054135&hsa_ver=3&hsa_ad=314020272710&hsa_grp=35901195749&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImqu599jt3wIVCQdpCh1jdgfjEAAYASAAEgKAS_D_BwE)sometime ago, $1000+, filters very expensive.

It worked well, but my daughter needed it more so I gave it to them.

My Chicago condo Leed Certified was so tight it was bad. I had to install leaks, a power exhaust and find intake air from the wall inside the bathroom. That made my darkroom possible.

Now i am happy in my very leaky 100 year old hardwood shack.

I lost my hacking cough 6 years ago. Breathe easy now. No more CPap.


Who knows, probably junk.

https://www.amazon.com/Rabbit-Air-MinusA2-Ultra-Purifier/dp/B079K7RM29/ref=as_li_ss_tl?imprToken=Bu49jLvKtYu2U9Mn3MoCkw&slotNum=0&ie=UTF8&qid=1514595928&sr=8-3&keywords=minusa2&linkCode=ll1&tag=hag-top10list-20&linkId=6dda5d7d4ac127556b5a0da6946c2225&th=1

bigdog
14-Jan-2019, 12:46
I had a cheap (Harbor Freight) compressor at my old darkroom. It was on another floor and piped in by a 50 ft. hose. Had the necessary filters and nozzle, and I had it set to 40 lbs. Worked great. In my new darkroom, there was no
"other floor", so my wife gifted me with a relatively more expensive, but very quiet compressor from Rockler Woodworking. Same filter, nozzle and pressure regulator. I do have it on the other side of the room from the enlargers!

Steven Ruttenberg
1-Feb-2019, 18:21
Drew what vacuum cleaner do you recommend? I will be using it throughout house as well as my office. Hopefully it will last longer than the Walmart special.

Steven Ruttenberg
1-Feb-2019, 21:40
What about this vacuum? https://www.unoclean.com/Mastercraft-CT9-Enviromaster-9-Compact-HEPA-Dry-Canister-Vacuum-2-Gallons.aspx

Peter De Smidt
2-Feb-2019, 10:51
Also check out Fein and Festool.

Drew Wiley
2-Feb-2019, 14:19
All the brands of HEPA vacs out there nearly all come from only two plants, though the details of different brands vary somewhat relative to patents and specific features. The main plant is in Alto, Italy, which makes Festool, Fein, Eurovac, and numerous others.
But because it is owned by Tooltechnik/Festo, they reserve the latest features and the best price advantage for their own Festool models. What you need to keep in mind in this subject is also the price and consistency of availability of replacement filters, which in a two-stage vac design are supplementary to the bag itself. And the best bags are basically a triple-layer polyester rather than paper. In a darkroom it's also important to have a variable-power feature to lower the suction, as well as anti-static hoses and accessories made from either special plastic or stainless steel. I therefore think that the best bang for the buck is the Festool Midi-Vac. It has quite a small footprint, but still enough capacity for remodeling projects, shop & home use et - quite versatile. Somewhat pricey up front, but a bargain in the long run if you factor in the sheer quality, the best REAL warranty policy of any tool brand (read the fine print in all the others), the huge selection of available accessories, compatibility with their wonderful tool other tools, and significant worldwide inventory of parts and accessories. The fittings will interchange with Fein, but not necessarily the hoses. Fein does offer a couple of soft true horsehair counter brushes, though you'd no doubt have to special order them, because they only imported them for me. But they're in the US catalog. Both Fein and Festool have remarkably advanced engineering divisions, and they share certain projects. Festo (the parent company of Festool) is designing the most advanced commercial drones in the world as well as the most advanced manufacturing robots, both based on study of live animals. They have an actual zoo at the main plant in Germany. They have three live elephants being studied by physiologists, and have created an artificial elephant trunk robotic arm that operates safely in direct proximity to human technicians. As a marketing stunt, it sorts and packs eggs without breaking them. Then they're at the front of designing "ornithopters" - basically big artificial seagulls that fly by wing flapping instead of rotors, and get eight times the distance on the same battery charge. There's a picture of one of those is an issue of lasts year's Natl Geo magazine. Artificial feathers are coming next.

Drew Wiley
2-Feb-2019, 16:31
That Unoclean vac is also utilizes the previous generation of Fein filter options, not their current ones. So if you go that route, you'd want to be certain there's a sufficient backup supply of those older-style filters. That particular plant allegedly closed; and that's why Fein decided to update everything and have the Festo plant in Italy make their new models (at an updated price structure too!). No one else in the country stocked or sold as many Fein filters as I did; but I retired two years ago, and haven't kept up with details. Most of the action had already transferred over to Festool well before I left. Three truck shipments a week.

Steven Ruttenberg
2-Feb-2019, 17:10
Cool. Thanks for the reply. I will check out the vac you recommend. It will be as much for photography as for helping with allergies.

Drew Wiley
2-Feb-2019, 17:46
I have a bigger version for the shop. But we have pets and my wife has allergies, so she likes to use my Midi Vac in the house because it picks up everything left behind by the regular vacs. These Festool vacs are also EPA certified for lead paint sanding and extraction, so suitable outside the house too, if you have to deal with old paint or other nasties.

MattR
4-Feb-2019, 14:39
Like Eric mentioned he uses a scuba tank. I also use a scuba tank (clean dry air) and use the low-pressure outlet on the first stage. I then move it to anywhere I want to use it, it works really well. You do have to use the low-pressure outlet, the high-pressure outlets are far too strong. This may not be a cheap option though given the legal requirements for testing. In Australia the tank needs to be visually inspected, pressure tested and punch stamped each year or you can't get it filled (every 5 years in the US). The regulator should also be serviced annually. Not an issue if you dive as you would be doing this anyway.

Steven Ruttenberg
4-Feb-2019, 15:05
I have a compressor, but will be replacing it with a larger standup one that will be plumbed into my eventual darkroom. I am getting another to go in the house for my digital work, the JC0PLUS 1 HP that Drew mentioned. The price is right and it looks to be quiet.

Looking at the Midi Vac, but they don't seem to make it easy to get the accessories or the Hepa filters. I must be looking at wrong place on their website.

Drew Wiley
4-Feb-2019, 19:10
They have a tremendous inventory in their central distribution in Indiana. You have to be careful with internet dealers: some have products in stock; others backorder to Indiana. There are maybe three "catalog dealers" in the US that actually stock nearly everything in the catalog. Two in New England which operate internet style, plus the dealership I set up here in CA which is more geared to walk-in contractor trade, but will ship if you're not in a hurry. Festool does not sell direct; never. The official site is Festoolusa.com and strictly informational. The dealer prices are fixed country-wide by legal contract, same price everywhere, no exceptions (except used or stolen goods!). Sales taxes vary by state to state policy. Amazon has a modest selection of items in stock, but you have to beware of being baited with significantly lower-quality off-brand accessories. I strongly recommend getting a hard-copy paper catalog from Festool; easier to identify all the accessory options in there. Just call them to get on their list or sign up on-line. Also check out their link to the Festool Road Show if you want to see the coolest truck rig ever built.

Steven Ruttenberg
4-Feb-2019, 22:41
They have a tremendous inventory in their central distribution in Indiana. You have to be careful with internet dealers: some have products in stock; others backorder to Indiana. There are maybe three "catalog dealers" in the US that actually stock nearly everything in the catalog. Two in New England which operate internet style, plus the dealership I set up here in CA which is more geared to walk-in contractor trade, but will ship if you're not in a hurry. Festool does not sell direct; never. The official site is Festoolusa.com and strictly informational. The dealer prices are fixed country-wide by legal contract, same price everywhere, no exceptions (except used or stolen goods!). Sales taxes vary by state to state policy. Amazon has a modest selection of items in stock, but you have to beware of being baited with significantly lower-quality off-brand accessories. I strongly recommend getting a hard-copy paper catalog from Festool; easier to identify all the accessory options in there. Just call them to get on their list or sign up on-line. Also check out their link to the Festool Road Show if you want to see the coolest truck rig ever built.

Sounds like the truck might be worth viewing. What is store in CA? I get out and there several times a year. There is a wood working supply store in my area sells them, so thought I would check them out. Only one internet dealer still around if you get link from Festool website. As long as I can get a supply of bags and filters and the occasional replacement part, I am good.

Drew Wiley
5-Feb-2019, 12:07
The store is Truitt & White in Berkeley, right beside the Freeway. Lots of the accessories are in backstock, so you have to ask, though all the vacs per se are displayed in the main store. If you run into a snag with newer people in an off day, you could always make arrangements for me to show up and help because, although I'm retired, I don't live far away - provided I'm not traveling, of course. The big truck arrived there in Sept last year when I was away on a long backpacking trip. They haven't posted the truck schedule for Arizona or Calif yet. There are dozens of Festool internet dealers across the country. The problem with the main website is that they link certain products to woodworking stores (which are increasingly uncommon in a brick and mortar sense), certain others items under paint store distribution per lead paint extraction, others to drywall specific trade shows, and still others under auto body trade via a 3M marketing partnership. It was kinda a gripe for someone like us who did all the above plus residential construction, marine, heavy industry, and even serious fine arts applications, including museums. But don't let that minor technicality bother you. The only time Festool can run out of something critical is this time of year, when ports and roads freeze up and potentially slow down shipments from Germany.

Steven Ruttenberg
5-Feb-2019, 13:45
Very cool, appreciate the offer. If I get out that way and haven't got what I need, I will get a hold of you.

What accessories should I get? I will be cleaning carpet in office where I do the mounting of negatives. Will have a humidifier, ionizer/air purifier, and an ionizing air nozzle and the small jc compressor you pointed out. I was thinking of some attachments for vacuuming thins like keyboards, monitors, etc.

Drew Wiley
5-Feb-2019, 15:19
I forgot to mention that their vacs and a limited number of other tools are also distributed by select Benjamin Moore paint stores across the country. So that might be an easier option for you. If Las Vegas is closer, you can find things there. Only an antistatic hose comes with each of the vacs. The best value for accessories is to buy a full kit in a matched stacking case which fits right atop the vacuum. Festool does not make miniature attachments. But there are some that can be fitted to their hoses and are suitable for computer and darkroom work. Remember, all this gear is metric, very high quality, and not the usual cheapo Shop Vac sizing. You just want to be certain to turn the power way down when using small attachments. In fact, tech repair folks buy entire kits of Festool gear, right down to a special handtruck for their stacked containers. You can really spend a lot of money if your aren't careful. But they make that quite a temptation by offering a discount on any vac with the purchase of any of their power tools, which in turn pay for themselves almost instantly due to the sheer efficiency of the work they do. Something like one of their rail saws is invaluable for sizing framing materials or making your own darkroom cabinets. You won't find those at a paint store, however.

Steven Ruttenberg
17-Feb-2019, 12:05
I may have missed it, but any decoy on miniature tools? Regular tool kit for cleaning like carpets and hard flooring? I am picking up my midi this week from a woodworking store. I may also get a couple of tools and such to start making my own frames. Woo Hoo!