Advice on 1st lens for LF (new member here)

[TheHulk]

Hello everyone, I recently bought a Shen Hao TZ 45-IIB in mint condition, it comes with a Shen Hao Lens board. Can someone please tell me how I can put a lens in the Shen Hao lens board? Also, what other lens boards fit this camera?

[Dan Fromm]

http://www.shen-hao.com/productsabout.aspx?i=962&id=n3

[Leigh]

Hi Hulk, and Welcome.

Large Format lens/shutters come apart to enable mounting/dis-mounting.

The rear cell unscrews from the shutter. That reveals the threaded rear throat
of the shutter. The retaining flange screws onto that throat.

The flange has a straight protrusion that goes into the hole in the lensboard.

The large disc on the flange bears against the rear of the lensboard. It gets
tightened using a special lens wrench that fits into the slots in the flange.
Here's the one that I use and prefer, from B&H Photo Video*:
186151
Note that it has several different wrench sizes to match different size shutters.

Tighten the flange to hold the shutter in place, then screw the rear cell back on.

There are three standard shutter sizes: Copal #0, Copal #1, and Copal #3. There is no #2.
Shutters were made by other companies, but Copal is the most popular / common / latest.

BTW... The "standard" focal length for 4x5 is 150mm. Most folks prefer f/5.6 max aperture.

- Leigh

*NB: Order the lens wrench here:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/131992-USA/Rodenstock_260600_Metal_Lens_Wrench.html

[Bob Salomon]

Hi Hulk, and Welcome.

Large Format lens/shutters come apart to enable mounting/dis-mounting.

The rear cell unscrews from the shutter. That reveals the threaded rear throat
of the shutter. The retaining flange screws onto that throat.

The flange has a straight protrusion that goes into the hole in the lensboard.

The larger disc on the flange bears against the rear of the lensboard. It gets
tightened using a special lens wrench that fits into the slots in the flange.
Here's the one that I use and prefer, from B&H Photo Video*:
186151
Note that it has several different wrench sizes to match different size shutters.

Tighten the flange to hold the shutter in place, then screw the rear cell back on.

There are three standard shutter sizes: Copal #0, Copal #1, and Copal #3. There is no #2.
Shutters were made by other companies, but Copal is the most popular / common / latest.

- Leigh

*NB: Order the lens wrench here:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/131992-USA/Rodenstock_260600_Metal_Lens_Wrench.html

It no longer says Rodenstock. They are labeled Linos. They had bought Rodenstock Precision Optical several years ago.

[Leigh]

It no longer says Rodenstock. They are labeled Linos. They had bought Rodenstock Precision Optical several years ago.Hi Bob,

Mine says Linos. But that image is from the B&H product page (follow the link).

- Leigh

[rdeloe]

You can also use a standard lens spanner wrench to undo the ring. It's really quite straightforward. Some people use scissors (not recommended).

Regarding lens boards, I'm pretty sure that camera uses the Linhof/Wista board. Look for the corners to be cut off at the bottom. You'll see tons of lenses for sale on the 'bay that are pre-mounted in these boards. The board for the actual Toyo 45 cameras is not compatible, but, confusingly, Toyo made a "Toyo View" board in the Linhof/Wista pattern. I've also seen Nikon lens boards in the Linhof/Wista board pattern.

[Two23]

Measure the size of the hole in the lens board. Next, determine what Copal shutter fits that hole:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lens_board

You then look for a lens that will fit the hole. The holes are standard, but there are different sizes of lens boards. I had a Shen Hao and it took the common "Tecknika/Wista" type boards. I would suggest something like a 135mm to 180mm lens to start with. If you decide to add lenses, simply buy a lens board with the Copal size hole and you're good. And yes, you unscrew the back half of the lens from shutter to mount it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXnMaClaeXo

If you use a lens wrench be very careful to not let it slip and scratch the lens. You can sometimes loosen the rear part of the lens by simply twisting the front half + shutter.


Kent in SD

[Duolab123]

135mm Nikkor, inexpensive, available, nice slightly wide lens, I think it's a #1 shutter. There's a great guy on Ebay that makes wooden lens boards, any wood any camera. I bought a hardboard, painted black, Calumet CC board, predrilled with a 0 shutter hole. I've gotten boards for my Deardorff, everything fits perfectly. He's in Chicago, zbig1 ?his first name is Zbigniew. Highly recommended.
Those old Rodenstock lens wrenches are great. One of these days I'm buying a SKG wrench.

[Bob Salomon]

Hi Bob,

Mine says Linos. But that image is from the B&H product page (follow the link).

- Leigh

I know, I took that picture when we first introduced the wrench. It was not a fun thing to shoot. It was used for a Shutterbug Photokina wrapup edition on very short notice. That particular wrench was one of the factory’s service technician ones before we talked them into making it a regular product.

That was also when we got them to introduce their microfiber lens cloth.

[Tin Can]

I second Zbigniew on eBay for almost any lensboard. LINHOF Technika boards however are a different thing. He does make Technika to any other lendboard adapter.

I highly suggest you look carefully for a very good working shutter.

I bought a few bad shutters until I got smart...:(

[Duolab123]

I second Zbigniew on eBay for almost any lensboard. LINHOF Technika boards however are a different thing. He does make Technika to any other lendboard adapter.

I highly suggest you look carefully for a very good working shutter.

I bought a few bad shutters until I got smart...:(

Two thumbs up.

[TheHulk]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I don't want to start a new thread so I will ask in this one. Is it ok to store the camera closed without a lens?

Here is how my camera came:

186184

I'm just worried about dirt or dust getting into it but I'm not sure if that will actually happen. I plan on getting a 210mm lens and I think I know which one to get but just to make sure because there are so many variants. From my understanding the RODENSTOCK APO SINARON-S in 150, 180 and 210mm comes highly regarded.

I would like to get the RODENSTOCK APO SINARON-S 210mm version.

I found this one but the listing is confusing: Is it a "S" or "N" version?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RODENSTOCK-APO-SINARON-S-210MM-5-6-WHITE-LABEL-APO-SIRONAR-N-MC-BEST-ON-EBAY/332946293588?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Dbc1a8ce7c1b94b22b3251d50c7d3ed78%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D173707574241%26itm%3D332946293588&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ae91680a3-1353-11e9-bc32-74dbd1801897%7Cparentrq%3A2dec12501680aadc681bc129fffdcf13%7Ciid%3A1

Also, what is a "white label" and what are your thoughts on this lens?

In addition, I found a Rodenstock Sironar N 180mm 5.6 lens for 1/3 of the price of the above lens.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Near-MINT-Schneider-Symmar-S-180mm-f5-6-MC-Copal-No-1-4x5-Lens-from-JAPAN-798N-/173707574241?nma=true&si=%252Bgq2i8UVWhzwEI6yIgSIXR54XKs%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


I know one is a 180 and the other a 210mm lens and one is "S" version (I think) and the other a "N" version but what do you guys suggest for a fist lens? Thanks.

[Tin Can]

Some lenses on some cameras can remain mounted on camera when folded.

If not get a second lensboard without hole or with hole and gaff tape it covered.

[John Kasaian]

You've got great info on mounting modern lenses, but if you're an optical bottom feeder (like me) you may find yourself with an old brassie from the past millennia.
These may have a flange that fits on the outside of the lens board and is meant to be held in place with little brass wood screws.
The shutter screws directly into this flange so the trick is to get the shutter threads to bottom out so the settings and shutter release fittings are conveniently located.
This can be accomplished by marking the flange top dead center based on where to want your controls to be. Remove the flange and place it back on the lens board and mark where you want to start your screw holes.
Screw the flange in place with the flange TDC on top and mount the lens---everything should then be oriented as you desired.

[Pere Casals]

They had bought Rodenstock Precision Optical several years ago.

...and LINOS AG was bought by QIOPTIC in 2010

Beyond equipment, Qioptic offers a nice freeware version of their ray-tracing: http://www.qioptiq-shop.com/en/Optics-Software/Winlens-Optical-Design-Software/Free-Winlens-Basic/Winlens-Basic-Screenshots/


186189

[John Kasaian]

Some lenses on some cameras can remain mounted on camera when folded.

If not get a second lensboard without hole or with hole and gaff tape it covered.

Or you can cover it with kraft paper and tape it in place with fancy, easily removable masking tape.

Also, some lenses that won't fit with the camera folded will fit if you reverse the lens board usually---but not always--- if the back component is less proud than the front
If so, be sure you use a protective rear lens cap.

[AJ Edmondson]

The "white label" refers to a lens branded for a different company (in this case Sinar). The lens manufacturers produced lenses for other companies such as Linhof, Calumet, etc. In some instances these companies performed additional quality control checks - as in the case of Linhof - to insure performance standards. As a rule "house-branded" lenses sold for less than the corresponding line with the manufacturers label... although this is (was?) not the case with the Linhof select lines. The 180 you are looking at is not a Rodenstock but is a Schneider.

Joel

[Dan Fromm]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I plan on getting a 210mm lens and I think I know which one to get but just to make sure because there are so many variants. From my understanding the RODENSTOCK APO SINARON-S in 150, 180 and 210mm comes highly regarded.

I would like to get the RODENSTOCK APO SINARON-S 210mm version.

I found this one but the listing is confusing: Is it a "S" or "N" version?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/RODENSTOCK-APO-SINARON-S-210MM-5-6-WHITE-LABEL-APO-SIRONAR-N-MC-BEST-ON-EBAY/332946293588?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Dbc1a8ce7c1b94b22b3251d50c7d3ed78%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D173707574241%26itm%3D332946293588&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ae91680a3-1353-11e9-bc32-74dbd1801897%7Cparentrq%3A2dec12501680aadc681bc129fffdcf13%7Ciid%3A1

Also, what is a "white label" and what are your thoughts on this lens?

In addition, I found a Rodenstock Sironar N 180mm 5.6 lens for 1/3 of the price of the above lens.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Near-MINT-Schneider-Symmar-S-180mm-f5-6-MC-Copal-No-1-4x5-Lens-from-JAPAN-798N-/173707574241?nma=true&si=%252Bgq2i8UVWhzwEI6yIgSIXR54XKs%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


I know one is a 180 and the other a 210mm lens and one is "S" version (I think) and the other a "N" version but what do you guys suggest for a fist lens? Thanks.

Um, y'r second link goes to a listing for a Schneider Symmar-S. Is that what you intended?

Also, some of our moderators think that posts here should be for the ages. eBay listings vanish after not very long, so these mods delete posts with links to eBay listings. If you save the links on archive.org and edit your post to replace the ephemeral links with the archived ones your post won't be removed.

This site has resources. If you go to https://www.largeformatphotography.info you'll find quite a lot to read and digest. Whatever you do, read this: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/chasing-magic-bullet.html. Most of us obsess about having the best gear. That's good clean fun but probably isn't worth the trouble. Good enough means what it says, and the difference between good enough and best is small.


The first post in this https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138978-Where-to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses discussion will take you to a list of links to all sorts of information on LF, including lens' makers' catalogs. Again, read and digest.

Asking questions about equipment on a bulletin board is well and good, will get you replies from people eager to be helpful. What's wrong with the replies is that they usually reflect relatively limited knowledge and recommend what the poster knows and likes, not what it doesn't know but would like ...

[Leigh]

From my understanding the RODENSTOCK APO SINARON-S in 150, 180 and 210mm comes highly regarded.
I would like to get the RODENSTOCK APO SINARON-S 210mm version.
Hi Hulk,

I have all of the APO Sironar-S lenses except the longest.

I originally had all of the APO Sironar-N lenses, but after buying a -S and comparing it, I decided to standardize on that series. The difference was obvious to me in some double-blind tests.

The SINARON-S lenses are the same but sold by SINAR for use on their cameras.

- Leigh

[Pere Casals]

The SINARON-S lenses are the same but sold by SINAR for use on their cameras.


Leigh, Sinaron-S are like Sironar-N, Sinaron-SE are like Sironar-S, IIRC. SINAR nomenclature is a bit messing !!!

[drew.saunders]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I don't want to start a new thread so I will ask in this one. Is it ok to store the camera closed without a lens?

If the lens is tiny, it might work, depending on how far back the rear elements extend. I have a Nikkor-M 200/8 that barely extends past the retaining ring that I can easily leave on when closing. I also have a Fuji 125/5.6 and Schneider Symmar-S 135/5.6 that I could probably leave on when closing, but rarely do. A 210/5.6 like you're thinking about would likely be too large.

My Ebony shipped with a protective cover (for lack of a better word) for the lensboard opening. It's not just a lensboard without a hole, it has a bit of a handle protruding from the front. I should probably take a picture and post it. I wonder why nobody else ships with something like that or sells them? A piece of cardboard or paperboard cut to size with tape on the edges to keep it from making dust would work too, assuming you have some boxes that you could cut up.

I plan on getting a 210mm lens and I think I know which one to get but just to make sure because there are so many variants.
Just about any 210/5.6 or 180/5.6 from Rodenstock, Schneider, Fuji, or Nikon would be just fine. You'll see some Calumet Caltar lenses. Calumet didn't make their own, they re-badged others (mostly Rodenstock or Schneider), and those can be good lenses often for a good price. For a first lens, get one with a working shutter that is free of bad scratches. A 210/5.6 or 180/5.6 will need a #1 size hole (about 42mm in diameter). The default lensboard that shipped with your camera most likely is a #0 sized hole (about 35mm in diameter). You may need to buy a new lensboard to go with your lens, and Shen Hao makes good ones, along with many other manufacturers. You'll probably eventually get another lens that can use that #0 lensboard soon enough, so keep it.

[Leigh]

Leigh, Sinaron-S are like Sironar-N, Sinaron-SE are like Sironar-S, IIRC. SINAR nomenclature is a bit messing !!!
OK. Thanks for the correction Pere.

- Leigh

[TheHulk]

Thanks everyone again for the advice, including the links to the large format general information pages.

I'm about to buy my first lens but want to make sure I understand this correctly:

This lens:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RODENSTOCK-APO-SINARON-S-210MM-5-6-WHITE-LABEL-APO-SIRONAR-N-MC-BEST-ON-EBAY/332946293588?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Dbc1a8ce7c1b94b22b3251d50c7d3ed78%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D173707574241%26itm%3D332946293588&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ae91680a3-1353-11e9-bc32-74dbd1801897%7Cparentrq%3A2dec12501680aadc681bc129fffdcf13%7Ciid%3A1

is a rebranded RODENSTOCK APO SINARON-S lens?

So RODENSTOCK APO SINARON-S is the same thing as a APO SIRONAR-N MC lens? They are identically to each other? The guy in the above link is asking $740 for it.

Couldn't I just buy this lens https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-Sinaron-S-ApoSironarN-210mm-f5-6-72-Deg-Sinar-Board-Intrepid-8x10/143079841056

for half the price and put it on a Shen Hao board? (The seller has it mounted on a 8x10 board currently). And from my understanding the following boards all work with Shen Hao?

*Linhof
*Technika
*Wista
*Toyo
*Ebony

EIDT: The seller that is selling the lens with the 8x10 board writes "I used this on my Intrepid 8x10, while it does cover without movements I got small vignetting in the corners." This is due to the fact that it's on the 8x10 camera correct? So the lens would not vignette on a 4x5 camera? Or is it a defect and it will?

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks everyone again for the advice, including the links to the large format general information pages.

I'm about to buy my first lens but want to make sure I understand this correctly:

This lens:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RODENSTOCK-APO-SINARON-S-210MM-5-6-WHITE-LABEL-APO-SIRONAR-N-MC-BEST-ON-EBAY/332946293588?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Dbc1a8ce7c1b94b22b3251d50c7d3ed78%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D173707574241%26itm%3D332946293588&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ae91680a3-1353-11e9-bc32-74dbd1801897%7Cparentrq%3A2dec12501680aadc681bc129fffdcf13%7Ciid%3A1

is a rebranded RODENSTOCK APO SINARON-S lens?

So RODENSTOCK APO SINARON-S is the same thing as a APO SIRONAR-N MC lens? They are identically to each other? The guy in the above link is asking $740 for it.

Couldn't I just buy this lens https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-Sinaron-S-ApoSironarN-210mm-f5-6-72-Deg-Sinar-Board-Intrepid-8x10/143079841056

for half the price and put it on a Shen Hao board? (The seller has it mounted on a 8x10 board currently). And from my understanding the following boards all work with Shen Hao?

*Linhof
*Technika
*Wista
*Toyo
*Ebony

Same lens, yes you can.

A Technika is a Linhof. The board your camera takes is the 45 Linhof Technika boards made from the 1950s to today for a Linhof Technika 45.

Linhof makes boards for their Technika 23, 45, 57, Kardan and M679.

So just asking for a Technika board or a Linhof board could result in your buying the wrong board. You need a modern 45 Linhof Technika board, or one of the copies.

[JimL]

Thanks everyone again for the advice, including the links to the large format general information pages.

I'm about to buy my first lens but want to make sure I understand this correctly:

This lens:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RODENSTOCK-APO-SINARON-S-210MM-5-6-WHITE-LABEL-APO-SIRONAR-N-MC-BEST-ON-EBAY/332946293588?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Dbc1a8ce7c1b94b22b3251d50c7d3ed78%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D173707574241%26itm%3D332946293588&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Ae91680a3-1353-11e9-bc32-74dbd1801897%7Cparentrq%3A2dec12501680aadc681bc129fffdcf13%7Ciid%3A1

is a rebranded RODENSTOCK APO SINARON-S lens?

So RODENSTOCK APO SINARON-S is the same thing as a APO SIRONAR-N MC lens? They are identically to each other? The guy in the above link is asking $740 for it.

Couldn't I just buy this lens https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-Sinaron-S-ApoSironarN-210mm-f5-6-72-Deg-Sinar-Board-Intrepid-8x10/143079841056

for half the price and put it on a Shen Hao board? (The seller has it mounted on a 8x10 board currently). And from my understanding the following boards all work with Shen Hao?

*Linhof
*Technika
*Wista
*Toyo
*Ebony

EIDT: The seller that is selling the lens with the 8x10 board writes "I used this on my Intrepid 8x10, while it does cover without movements I got small vignetting in the corners." This is due to the fact that it's on the 8x10 camera correct? So the lens would not vignette on a 4x5 camera? Or is it a defect and it will?

Yes, the lenses are the same.

You could also buy this (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-Sironar-N-210mm-f-5-6-Copal-1/223289021720?hash=item33fd101518:g:v8kAAOSwWlVcGGXI:rk:10:pf:0) or, if you want something in newer condition: this (https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-GENUINE-210mm-F5-6-RODENSTOCK-MC-SIRONAR-N-LENS-COPAL-1-SHUTTER-ORIGINAL-BOX/162838036869?hash=item25e9e74185:g:Z~UAAOSwRLZaUFqu:rk:25:pf:0).

[CatSplat]

EIDT: The seller that is selling the lens with the 8x10 board writes "I used this on my Intrepid 8x10, while it does cover without movements I got small vignetting in the corners." This is due to the fact that it's on the 8x10 camera correct? So the lens would not vignette on a 4x5 camera? Or is it a defect and it will?

That is correct, the lens has ample coverage for 4x5.

[Bob Salomon]

Yes, the lenses are the same.

You could also buy this (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-Sironar-N-210mm-f-5-6-Copal-1/223289021720?hash=item33fd101518:g:v8kAAOSwWlVcGGXI:rk:10:pf:0) or, if you want something in newer condition: this (https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-GENUINE-210mm-F5-6-RODENSTOCK-MC-SIRONAR-N-LENS-COPAL-1-SHUTTER-ORIGINAL-BOX/162838036869?hash=item25e9e74185:g:Z~UAAOSwRLZaUFqu:rk:25:pf:0).

Be very careful, that lens went out of production decades ago. Make them prove what they mean by “new” and where it has been for all those years!

Also, the 210 Apo Sironon S covers slightly more then 810 as it covers 75°. The Sironar N and Apo Sironar N does not cover 810 as it is a 72° design.

[JimL]

Be very careful, that lens went out of production decades ago. Make them prove what they mean by “new” and where it has been for all those years!

Also, the 210 Apo Sironon S covers slightly more then 810 as it covers 75°. The Sironar N and Apo Sironar N does not cover 810 as it is a 72° design.

Good point, Bob...

The OP did state that he's bought a 4x5 camera, so it doesn't sound like 8x10 coverage is his priority. An Apo Sironar-S will also be a very expensive 1st lens...

[Leigh]

An Apo Sironar-S will also be a very expensive 1st lens...
And a very expensive second lens, and a very expensive third lens, and a very very expensive fourth lens.

Ask me how I know. I bought the whole set.

- Leigh

[Leszek Vogt]

Ha, just be careful what you wish for. In regard to "better" lens....that seller shows 96% pos feedback. To me that's bit of an alarm, maybe not to others (?).

Les

[drew.saunders]

Couldn't I just buy this lens https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-Sinaron-S-ApoSironarN-210mm-f5-6-72-Deg-Sinar-Board-Intrepid-8x10/143079841056

for half the price and put it on a Shen Hao board?

Yes, and since it's on a real Sinar board, instead of a copy, you could get a few bucks for the lensboard, so it's really a good deal. It has a black ring copal shutter, so it's not as old as a lens with a silver ring shutter, so the shutter is possibly reasonably accurate. Lots of cameras use Sinar boards, lots more use the Linhof 4x5-style boards.

[TheHulk]

So far none of the lenses that you guys mentioned are worth it (I think) but I do appreciate the help.

1) The first one is way to much, guy wants $740...what would be a good offer?

2) The one for $245.00 has tiny specs of dust in it.

3) The one that comes with the 8 x 10 board has "very light marks in the coating from age and cleaning that do not affect image quality. The marks only appear under a really bright led light"

4) The one that's "brand new" for $500 has about 14 negative feedbacks all in the last six months...they all state the same thing, item never shipped so I'm 100% sure it's a scam.


If you guys find any other deals on this lens I'll greatly appreciate it. Thank you.

[Pere Casals]

If you guys find any other deals on this lens

Let's start from scratch in the good way...

What kind of subjects are you planning to portray ?

Portraits ? groups, half body, head&shoulders ?

Landscape ? you like more a 28mm or a 35mm in SLR ?

Architecture ? want extreme movements ?

Studio vs Field ? Are you to travel or to hike, need going lightweight a lot ?

What film ? Want sunsts in Velvia, or you want BW for the moment ? Need multicoating ?

Budget ? if you are starting you have to acquire many things... (including film and processing gear)

Just right now wanting a lens to start with, to practice and to learn ?

For the moment let me answer for the last case:

1) Start with the normal focal for the format, 150mm if you are to shot some people, perhaps 135mm if not.

2) Start with a cheap&good lens, learn what do you want from a LF lens, later you would be able to puchase glass with some wisdom, anyway it looks pretty impossible to not make mistakes with glass.



This is my choice:

https://www.ebay.es/itm/Linhof-Schneider-150mm-F5-6-265mm-f12-Technika-Symmar-Convertible-Lens-246/202463649421?hash=item2f23c61e8d:g:lakAAOSw4Ulbu~0J:rk:12:pf:0

$103, but you can make an offer, so offer some $75 and see what counteroffer.

Features:

> This is an Schneider 150mm f/5.6 that was stamped/selected by luxurious Linhof Technika, so sure it is a good performer.

Please read this: https://kenrockwell.com/schneider/150.htm , read very well what explained about shutter testers, no mechanical shutter is really accurate.
https://kenrockwell.com/tech/exposure-large-format.htm

> If you unscrew (remove) the front cell then you also have an amazing portrait lens, 210mm f /12 . You would have 2 focals to learn.

> "Fully Tested and Works Properly. 6 Months Warranty included! Item pictured is the actual item for sale. "

> It has some schneideritis inside the barrel, but this is absolutely irrelevant.


Ansel Adams and Yousuf Karsh made most of their work with glasses that would not be better than this one.

It is single coated, so it can deliver slight flare when sun in the framing, not as contrasty than multicoated glasses, but this is not necessarily bad, at all .

Let's see if you are able to wear it, way before that you will be an experienced LF shooter.

With this lens you may craft 1m prints that are perfectly sharp and flawless even if inspected with the nose on it, doing at least what a top notch $40k MF digital back is able. You can sell it later for not much less, or to keep the shutter as an spare. In any case you may save more money in the next aquisition than what you spend now, savings from having a own criterion.

Beyond image quality, you will be able to learn about tilt/shift in the aesthetics.

[Alan Gales]

A lot of Japanese Sellers have been selling Fuji lenses for good prices recently. I picked up a really nice Fuji 180mm not long ago for $160 including shipping. You can easily find 135, 150, 180 and 210 focal lengths. If you don't know what you want then go for a 150 or 180. Pretty close to a 50mm normal focal length on a 35mm camera or full frame digital. Don't worry about buying from Japan. A lot of us buy from there and have had great experiences.

Modern Fuji, Nikkor, Schneider and Rodenstock lenses are all sharp and contrasty and render pretty close to the same. Let price and condition be your guide to which to buy. Don't sweat it and just get a lens and start shooting. If you buy a lens and later you would rather have something a bit longer or shorter instead then you can always sell for close to what you paid. It's not like buying the latest digital camera where you lose your butt if you later sell it.

Good luck and welcome to large format!

[TheHulk]

Let's start from scratch in the good way...

What kind of subjects are you planning to portray ?

Portraits ? groups, half body, head&shoulders ?

Landscape ? you like more a 28mm or a 35mm in SLR ?

Architecture ? want extreme movements ?

Studio vs Field ? Are you to travel or to hike, need going lightweight a lot ?

What film ? Want sunsts in Velvia, or you want BW for the moment ? Need multicoating ?

Budget ? if you are starting you have to acquire many things... (including film and processing gear)

Just right now wanting a lens to start with, to practice and to learn ?

For the moment let me answer for the last case:

1) Start with the normal focal for the format, 150mm if you are to shot people, 135mm if not.

2) Start with a cheap&good lens, learn what do you want from a LF lens, later you would be able to puchase glass with some wisdom, anyway it looks pretty impossible to not make mistakes with glass.

.


Hi, for portraits I'd like to shoot head and shoulders or half body.

For landscapes I'm going to get a Nikkor SW 90mm f/8 lens in a year or so but I've heard that 210mm is a great all around focal length for general use (roughly 70mm on 35mm format).

I don't think I need any extreme movements yet. I'm going to be using the large format camera and glass in the field. I do travel a lot but I only plan on having two lenses.

The films I've been using with medium format are:

Portra 160 and 400
Velvia 100
Fuji 400H

For black and white so far I've only used HP5+ and TRIX but there are so many B&W films that I want to try them all.

I have a FUJI GSW690II (28mm) and FUJI GW690III (39mm) that I plan on using mostly and the 4 x 5 only on special occasions, I plan on taking maybe one or two photos a month with it so I will not be developing or scanning it myself, I'm going to be sending them to a lab.


I really like the 210mm focal length. I used to own a SIGMA DP3 Merrill with the 70mm lens and really liked it. I have a Nikon D700 and F100 and like using the 50mm lens with both but I prefer the 70mm length. I would really prefer to just get a good deal on the 210mm lens and be done with it.

[Pere Casals]

Hi, for portraits

Here you have a discusion about portrait lenses: https://www.largeformatphotography.info/portrait-lenses/

While that article also throws some personal opinions it illustrates very well how refined are LF resources regarding portraiture glass. By 1890 plates had beyond 100MPix worth information and soon it was realized that this was too much for the wrinkles, in 1926 it was released the Universal Heliar, this is the 1902 model but with a ring to adjust spherical aberration by displacing the internal element outside the "right" place.

http://www.antiquecameras.net/heliarlenses.html
https://www.ebay.es/sch/i.html?_odkw=universal+heliar&LH_PrefLoc=2&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=universal+heliar+210&_sacat=0

This 1902 lens was advanced enough to not have a pentagon in the aperture, but a nice circle for the bokeh sake. Are today's lens designers ignoring that ?

It followed (for example) Rodenstock Imagon and Fuji SF (soft focus) series: We can think that a sharp image is rendered, but on it there is another image of adjustable blur. Beyond the amazing vault of portrait glass from the XIX...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodenstock_Imagon
https://www.ebay.es/sch/i.html?_odkw=ektar+14%22&LH_PrefLoc=2&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=rodenstock+imagon&_sacat=0

Many general photography lenses are Plasmats or derivatives of it, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasmat_lens). The simetry (or quasi) allows for a very good correction in a large circle in such a fast lens for the format.

Plasmats are the design of choice, in general, for mid range focals. But the out of focus rendering of plasmats is a tad harsh. In that sense many prefer older good designs. To note a case, Yousuf Karsh, shot a lot (8x10) with a Commercial Ektar 14" https://www.ebay.es/sch/i.html?_odkw=ektar+14%22&LH_PrefLoc=2&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=commercial+ektar+14%22&_sacat=0

https://karsh.org/overview/#thumbnails

The 14" equivalent for 4x5" is 7" so 180mm. If wanting closer shots then a 210 or 240 is a choice, but IMHO better to start with 180 or 150, in LF you always can crop with no practical quality loss, while a too long lens will limit you in perspective terms if you have to shot from too far.




For landscapes I'm going to get a Nikkor SW 90mm f/8 lens

I've one... I purchased it very cheap with a crack in the rear element, it is in the periphery and nothing is noticed in the image. Many wide angular are Biogon derivatives. I've a 90 and a 65, but perhaps I'd advice to have a 75mm replacing both, as said in LF you always can crop for a composition, but if the lens does not take all you want to include then you can't do nothing, so IMHO better if we go a bit wider, it's more flexible.



I have a FUJI GSW690II (28mm) and FUJI GW690III (39mm) that I plan on using mostly and the 4 x 5 only on special occasions

Ok, but beware, LF is addictive :)

Please see this example, and notice movements, the focus plane...:

https://mecacolor.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/marte4x5-tmx-100-1a.jpg?w=640
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?119026-January-2015-Portraits&p=1204000&viewfull=1#post1204000

The nose tip is slightly OOF, but there is a tilt/shift, the plane of focus is inclinated, taking the shoulder and the face. You may notice that the image has a powerful 3D feel, a depth, from "plane of focus" management, this is LF.

[Larry Gebhardt]

Hi, for portraits I'd like to shoot head and shoulders or half body.

For landscapes I'm going to get a Nikkor SW 90mm f/8 lens in a year or so but I've heard that 210mm is a great all around focal length for general use (roughly 70mm on 35mm format).

I don't think I need any extreme movements yet. I'm going to be using the large format camera and glass in the field. I do travel a lot but I only plan on having two lenses.

The films I've been using with medium format are:

Portra 160 and 400
Velvia 100
Fuji 400H

For black and white so far I've only used HP5+ and TRIX but there are so many B&W films that I want to try them all.

I have a FUJI GSW690II (28mm) and FUJI GW690III (39mm) that I plan on using mostly and the 4 x 5 only on special occasions, I plan on taking maybe one or two photos a month with it so I will not be developing or scanning it myself, I'm going to be sending them to a lab.


I really like the 210mm focal length. I used to own a SIGMA DP3 Merrill with the 70mm lens and really liked it. I have a Nikon D700 and F100 and like using the 50mm lens with both but I prefer the 70mm length. I would really prefer to just get a good deal on the 210mm lens and be done with it.

Because 35mm and 4x5 are different aspect ratios it's a bit hard to compare lens equivalents without taking into account the aspect ratio of the final print. If you print your 35mm shots as 4x5 (or 8x10) aspect ratio there's a 4x multiplier so a 210 is closer to a 50mm on 35mm. If you want to check my math the 35mm film cropped to 4x5 aspect is 24x30mm, or 38mm on the diagonal. 4x5 film's image area is about 96x120mm or 154mm on the diagonal. 154/38 = 4.05. To get to a 70mm equivalent you are really looking at about 280mm. So consider 240mm or 300mm lenses. 300mm is too long for close up portraits on a lot of cameras and is hard to work with compared to shorter lenses. I'd still recommend the 210 as a great starter lens, but just don't want you to be surprised when it's not exactly what you expected.

If you plan to print your 4x5 negatives with a 3:2 aspect ratio your multiplier will be 3.4x and a 240mm would be almost dead on.

If you plan to travel with the 4x5 consider weight. As plasmats get above 150mm they start getting fairly heavy. Check out https://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF4x5in.html as a great comparison source. If you want lighter weight lenses I'm very happy with the Nikon M 200 f/8 and 300 f/9 lenses. Fuji makes a Fujinon A 240 f/9 that's also well regarded and light weight. I don't think any of these are cheap any more, but might be worth considering. A small budget lens is the Geronar. It's a simple formula and was the entry level lens in Rodenstock's line up. They are surprisingly sharp if you stop down to f/22. Wide open they will be a bit less clinical which might be nice for portrait (I've never tried).

If you value price over size pick up one of the numerous plasmats that have been discussed above. I've shot Nikon and Caltar II - (Rodenstock) 210's and I can't tell the difference on the film. The good news is there are so many out there a bargain should show up if you are patient.

Edit: 2 fuji's for sale over at photrio: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/fuji-lf-lenses-240mm-and-210mm.164683/

[TheHulk]

Can you guys and gals confirm that these two lenses:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sinar-Sinaron-S-210mm-f5-6-MC-Lens-for-4x5-by-Rodenstock-w-Copal-1-av/192755139551

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-Sinaron-S-210mm-72-f-5-6-MC-lens-11028445/113414605031


are indeed the same lens as this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RODENSTOCK-APO-SINARON-S-210MM-5-6-WHITE-LABEL-APO-SIRONAR-N-MC-BEST-ON-EBAY/332946293588


Thank you.

[Bob Salomon]

Can you guys and gals confirm that these two lenses:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sinar-Sinaron-S-210mm-f5-6-MC-Lens-for-4x5-by-Rodenstock-w-Copal-1-av/192755139551

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rodenstock-Sinaron-S-210mm-72-f-5-6-MC-lens-11028445/113414605031


are indeed the same lens as this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RODENSTOCK-APO-SINARON-S-210MM-5-6-WHITE-LABEL-APO-SIRONAR-N-MC-BEST-ON-EBAY/332946293588


Thank you.
The second one is an older version of the other two.

[Larry Gebhardt]

Have you seen https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?150036-FS-Sironar-N-Rodenstock-210mm-f5-6-s-n-10213538-on-Copal-1

[TheHulk]

Thanks, Bob. Larry, when I click on your link I get an error:

"you do not have permission to access this page"

[Larry Gebhardt]

Thanks, Bob. Larry, when I click on your link I get an error:

"you do not have permission to access this page"

I wonder if new users can't view the classifieds. I thought it was only a probationary period to post.

[fatherdougal]

Thanks, Bob. Larry, when I click on your link I get an error:

"you do not have permission to access this page"


I wonder if new users can't view the classifieds. I thought it was only a probationary period to post.


Thanks, Bob. Larry, when I click on your link I get an error:

"you do not have permission to access this page"

You have to be a member for at least 30 days to view the classifieds section.

cheers/fd

[TheHulk]

I ended up buying a Sinar Sinaron S 210mm f5.6 lens. I've been reading a lot about how to use the Shen Hao camera but one question I have is when mounting the 210 lens onto the camera, how far do I pull out the bottom? I've seen people pull the bottom of the camera out depending on the length of the lens. Is there a certain formula for this or do you just have to pull it out based on how much is in focus? Thanks.

[James Westfall]

I figured I would jump on this thread, rather than start a new one so I hope that's ok. While I wait "patiently" for my Intrepid 4x5 i have been doing my research on lenses. I plan on doing some landscape stuff along with some portraits.
I didn't want a one size fits all lens, but rather 2 unique lenses best-suited to landscapes & portraits. Money, unfortunately, is an object so I plan on buying only 1 at a time. Based on what I have read I am leaning toward a 90mm and a 210mm, sub F8.
I've been looking at both Nikkor and Fujinon, but I'm not locked on those if anyone can offer another suggestion.
Am I going down the right path here or have I done the wrong research? ANY and ALL help is very much appreciated. I am new to LF, so I'm looking for good beginner lenses that will work well for me as a improve my skills over time. THANKS!

[Two23]

I figured I would jump on this thread, rather than start a new one so I hope that's ok. While I wait "patiently" for my Intrepid 4x5 i have been doing my research on lenses. I plan on doing some landscape stuff along with some portraits.
I didn't want a one size fits all lens, but rather 2 unique lenses best-suited to landscapes & portraits. Money, unfortunately, is an object so I plan on buying only 1 at a time. Based on what I have read I am leaning toward a 90mm and a 210mm, sub F8.



I have both a Nikon 90mm f4.5 and a Fuji 180mm f5.6. Both are excellent. I wouldn't obsess over the two brands. Whichever one comes up with the best deal, that's the one to get.:) You can't go wrong with either.


Kent in SD

[Jim Jones]

The venerable Kodak Ektar 203mm f/7.7 was my favorite for many years, and is well respected by others. Later multicoated lenses will have less flare if one has to shoot into bright lights.

[Larry Gebhardt]

I ended up buying a Sinar Sinaron S 210mm f5.6 lens. I've been reading a lot about how to use the Shen Hao camera but one question I have is when mounting the 210 lens onto the camera, how far do I pull out the bottom? I've seen people pull the bottom of the camera out depending on the length of the lens. Is there a certain formula for this or do you just have to pull it out based on how much is in focus? Thanks.

The lens will need to be 210mm from the film to focus at infinity (measured approximately from the lens board to the film plane) and farther for anything closer. So you want to extend the bellows a bit less than 210mm and then use the focus knob to fine tune the focus. That will ensure you can reach infinity focus. It really doesn't matter how you do this as long as you give yourself enough extra distance so you can focus. However I try to keep the center of mass of the camera over the center of the tripod for better balance. Play with your camera to find the ideal config that lets you quickly get the camera setup in a stable manner and allows you to still focus on closer subjects out to infinity. There's no need to mess with formulas while learning - just experiment.

[Larry Gebhardt]

I figured I would jump on this thread, rather than start a new one so I hope that's ok. While I wait "patiently" for my Intrepid 4x5 i have been doing my research on lenses. I plan on doing some landscape stuff along with some portraits.
I didn't want a one size fits all lens, but rather 2 unique lenses best-suited to landscapes & portraits. Money, unfortunately, is an object so I plan on buying only 1 at a time. Based on what I have read I am leaning toward a 90mm and a 210mm, sub F8.
I've been looking at both Nikkor and Fujinon, but I'm not locked on those if anyone can offer another suggestion.
Am I going down the right path here or have I done the wrong research? ANY and ALL help is very much appreciated. I am new to LF, so I'm looking for good beginner lenses that will work well for me as a improve my skills over time. THANKS!

Nothing wrong with those two focal lengths to start with. I'd get as fast of a 90mm as you can afford and are willing to carry weight wise. A 90mm f/8 will be very dim except in the center where as a 200mm f/8 will be perfectly viewable even in marginal light. A fresnel will help even out the 90mm if you do go with a slower version.

[andrewch59]

A very underrated 210mm is the Horseman Topcor 210mm 5.6, wonderful lens if you can get a clean one, and a bit cheaper than the big four. I have a super angulon 90mm f5.6 and a nikkon sw 90mm f8, the SA 90 normally stays at home and the nikkon comes with me. I use a Maxwell Screen and dont have any trouble with the 90mm f8

[Vaughn]

The type of portraits you'll be doing is an important factor -- for head & shoulders you might want to go a little longer, and maybe even older, but you'll run out of bellows sooner than later. A Fuji W 250/6.3 might be nice. The 250/6.7 covers 8x10 and costs a bit more, so you might find a good deal on the f/6.3. The 250/6.3 is about the same weight as the Fuji W 210mm. There are several 240mm lenses, also. An older lens like Jim's suggestion may not be as hard-edged as modern lenses for the portraits (to their benefit).

The 210mm lens will also do well in the landscape. The 90mm will probably give you some challenges if this is your first 4x5...but nothing major. I'd keep to lighter lenses on the Intrepid 4x5 -- especially if/when you have it at max extension for portraits.

Down the line you might find that a small little modern 150mm/5.6 is an inexpensive and light addition -- and does well for environmental portraits. I have Fuji Ws (180, 250, 300, 360mm) and a Caltar IIN 150mm/5.6. The 300mm and the 360mm are massive (5.6 and 6.3 respectively -- both for 8x10, as is the much lighter 250mm/6.7). As long as the shutter is crisp and the glass in good shape, not a whole lot of difference between manufacturers.

[CatSplat]

I figured I would jump on this thread, rather than start a new one so I hope that's ok. While I wait "patiently" for my Intrepid 4x5 i have been doing my research on lenses. I plan on doing some landscape stuff along with some portraits.
I didn't want a one size fits all lens, but rather 2 unique lenses best-suited to landscapes & portraits. Money, unfortunately, is an object so I plan on buying only 1 at a time. Based on what I have read I am leaning toward a 90mm and a 210mm, sub F8.
I've been looking at both Nikkor and Fujinon, but I'm not locked on those if anyone can offer another suggestion.
Am I going down the right path here or have I done the wrong research? ANY and ALL help is very much appreciated. I am new to LF, so I'm looking for good beginner lenses that will work well for me as a improve my skills over time. THANKS!

Another suggestion for the 90mm - the 90mm f/6.8 Rodenstock Grandagon-N (aka Caltar IIN) is sharp, light, and reasonably cheap (especially with Caltar branding). It's a hair dimmer than the f/5.6 versions, but it's easy enough to use with a Fresnel screen and is nice to pack around. Don't discount portability as a feature - my much larger 90/5.6 hasn't left the house since I bought the Grandagon. Another bonus is it uses a 67mm filter thread that is fairly common among LF lenses.