Any Aristo W54 Cold Head Tips? [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

m00dawg

6-Jan-2019, 10:27

I've been looking at various solutions to convert my Omega D2 to a diffusion enlarger. My long game is still to get or build an LED light source, but to get me by, I found an Aristo D2 in good shape. I did notice, however, it uses a W54 lamp which seems to predate the V52? Sounds like if I want to lower my contrast down to what I'm used to on, say, my Beseler 67, that I will need to use a yellow filter of some kind? I wasn't sure where to put this filter so that I could also use under lens mount filters (kinda bummed I lost my above lens filter tray but ah well - an above negative tray is something I may also try and design and 3D print).

I've contacted Louise over at light-sources.com to have a V52 made. They cost $170 each and 5-7 weeks to make. Cost isn't actually that bad and since it's new it should like quite some time. But for those 5-7 weeks I'm trying to figure out my options with this W54 lamp. Seems like using it will help me get used to a cold light, but the filters are all going to be off still which makes me wonder if I should just toss my condensers back in and use those for a while. They work well enough - it just makes for contrasty prints and more having to wrangle dust and imperfections. I really liked the look of my Beseler 67 but to print in 4x5, the D2 is all I have available right now.

AJ Edmondson

6-Jan-2019, 10:57

m00dawg

6-Jan-2019, 11:32

I used one several years ago and never noticed much difference using a yellow filter with VC filters vs same filters minus the yellow but that just be my memory bank crapping out on me. When compared with the hassle of installing, cleaning condensers I wouldn't hesitate to try the cold light with a mid-range filter and without any filter (preferably with a negative you have printed before). As far as the filter, the Rosco gels are cheap enough to get one and cut it to fit over the diffusion plate and under the frame.

Joel

Thanks Joel! Yeah I think I'm going to give it a go as-is just to see. I do have some shots in mind I could try and reprint and see what results I get. I I did rock a yellow filter, I was wondering about where to put it. Can I put it above the diffuser or perhaps somehow below it (if I can cut a good circle) where it sets on the lip of the cylinder, or would I just set it right on top of the negative carrier (I was worried that'd scratch it over time)?

Robbie Bedell

6-Jan-2019, 12:01

I now have is the newer Aristo lamp...Got it from Louise a number of years ago. She is a joy to work with. The new lamp gives a very turquoise light. The older lamp is a much more whitish light and that one needs the yellow filter... Here is the thing. The newer lamp is a bit difficult to use (for me) because it is SOOO turquoise. Once you start putting your multicontrast filters in and stopping down for printing it can seem pretty dark. I say 'seem' because it is not that it is so dark but that it is a strange turquoise light. I really have to let my eyes get used to using it. In a way I think I may have preferred the older lamp with the yellow filter because it actually seemed like a traditional enlarging lamp, but the jury is still out on that. (It was dark also!) I would try putting my older white lamp back in, for comparison, but I stupidly broke it during the replacement. I am happy enough with the new one and I will say the new lamp does make beautiful prints! Hope this helps! BTW You need to get the appropriate size yellow gel and slip it directly under the lamp. Robbie

www.robbiebedell.photoshelter.com

Neal Chaves

6-Jan-2019, 12:53

I have used cold light heads for some time. Most of the daylight type need about 30Y filtration for normal contrast on VC papers. The most important thing I can share with you involves how to make a test strip. Bulbs of all kinds take time to reach full output and cold light bulbs are especially slow. To make an accurate test strip, use a continuous burn of the tube, not short bursts. Set the timer with metronome to 30 seconds. Cover the test paper completely with a card then move out one inch. Start the timer and count four beeps. Them move the card every three beeps. You test strip will then record a more accurate representation of a continuous burn.

Doremus Scudder

6-Jan-2019, 13:01

I've used both versions of the Aristo cold-light heads and had no real trouble getting the contrast range I needed. Responses are slightly different for each lamp, but filters work fine for both. FWIW, I preferred the whiter grid lamp as well.

As for shelling out $170 for a new grid lamp... I'd just cruise eBay till I found a good used Chromega dichroic head and power source. Filters are built in, diffusion is exactly like a cold light head. I've got two, one 4x5 and one 5x7 that I Frankenstein mounted on my Beseler 45Ms; I like them a lot. The dichro filters give me contrast from about grade 1 through 4+. For the times I need maximum (or minimum) contrast, I switch to white light and use #47 and #58 filters below the lens (respectively). The #47 gets me roughly a grade more contrast the max. magenta on the dichro head; rarely need that much, though.

The one problem with cold-light sources in general is that the illumination intensity tends to drift with temperature, even with the pre-heaters. I solved the problem by simply leaving the light on the entire printing session for a while (shortened grid life a bit that way, though). Eventually I switched to a Zone VI stabilizer. Dichro heads with halogen bulbs don't have this problem.

Best,

Doremus

Robbie Bedell

6-Jan-2019, 15:01

Doremus is so correct about the stabilizer! It is a necessity for precise cold light printing...

Luis-F-S

6-Jan-2019, 15:04

I used cold light heads until I bought a dichroic head with my 8x10 DeVere. I still have the 5x7 cold light head for my Durst enlarger. Just use a Metrolux timer with a probe in the head and it will print great. Eric Woodbury had some for sale sometime back. I'll bet if you pm him, he can help you out. L

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?145778-FS-Two-MetroLux-2-darkroom-timers

AJ Edmondson

6-Jan-2019, 15:10

No problem putting the gel over the diffuser. It doesn't get scratched that way and there isn't enough heat to be problematical. I say this but then again I never left one for prolonged on-times. I also had a voltmeter mounted in the head and always kept it on 100 volts because the light output was too fast for me (this was in an Aristo 810 on an Elwood). Have fun!

Joel

Bill Burk

6-Jan-2019, 16:23

With my DII and Aristo I simply toss gelatin filters over the lens in the lens cone. Last night I just needed the green filter. Before that I just needed the blue filter and ND 0.6

I've been deliberately working with worst-case negatives.

Don't think the same trick is going to work for split grade printing or for more normal negatives.

Anyway if you have a few gelatin filters they can be used for enlarging by dropping them on top of the lens.

m00dawg

6-Jan-2019, 17:00

Oh wow a Metrolux looks awesome! I read through the manual though and looks like it might be more cumbersome to use for timing development maybe? I use one timer for both the enlarger and development (I just turn the enlarger switch off). Makes it easy in my tiny darkroom. Apart from that though, dang that thing is cool!

I was ultimately searching for a dichro head (Super Chromega specifically) and found some but they either had the mixing chambers for 35mm only or had no mixing chambers at all and there likewise were not many options. :/

HMG

6-Jan-2019, 20:27

There is a Roscoe gel for 30y (or maybe the 40y). I got mine at a shop that supplies theatrical lighting. Cheap.

William Whitaker

7-Jan-2019, 08:23

I am not familiar with the W54 lamp. Is this thread possibly about the Aristo V54 lamp?

m00dawg

7-Jan-2019, 08:43

I am not familiar with the W54 lamp. Is this thread possibly about the Aristo V54 lamp?

Based upon the other responses, it sounds like it's the older lamp. It has a mostly white look to it to me whereas the newer lamp is much more turquoise. I wouldn't call my lamp pure white but mostly white. It does look to be clean and in good condition, though apart from the W54 marking, I can't find any date information about it.

Merg Ross

7-Jan-2019, 09:46

An earlier discussion on this forum may help.

https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-16624.html

m00dawg

7-Jan-2019, 10:01

Hmm based on reading that and thoughts made here, it sounds like I might need this (https://www.stagelightingstore.com/roscolux-gel-sheets/21836-rosco-roscolux-10-medium-yellow-20-x-24-sheet?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=products&leadsource=14&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9M-ZhZLc3wIVy1uGCh0deQBDEAQYASABEgK4D_D_BwE). It's cheap and based on the Roscolux swatches, it looks like it's a YEL40.

With my condensers I tend to be around a #1 filter (Ilford). I'd like to be around a #2 as a goal. $7.00 for a gel seems reasonable if it gets me there relative to what I've already paid.

I think my endgame is still an LED head or a color head (if I can find one). This is more of a stop-gap, though for how long who knows (hence why I was thinking of getting the new lamp as well).

Chuck Pere

7-Jan-2019, 10:52

I thought the new lamp is the V54 not V52. And not sure of the W54. Here is some info on the lamps: https://www.light-sources.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/aristo_lamp_colors_and_spectral_distribution_charts_0.pdf Are you sure your head doesn't have a V54 installed?

Drew Wiley

7-Jan-2019, 10:55

Do they still make something equivalent to the blue-green V54 light? Those are wonderful for split printing VC papers or just general VC as well as graded papers. Yellow light (in "white"light) does nothing. It just contains some useless red. The high-contrast VC emulsion sees blue, the low-contrast, green light only. All that Y or M filters do is attenuate one or the other; but you can also do it selectively with B vs G filtration. Cold lights obviously need warmup and some kind of light output monitoring, but they're proven technology and apparently still affordable.

m00dawg

7-Jan-2019, 11:07

They do! But it requires a custom order from light-sources.com at least in the case of the Aristo D2. They are $170/ea with a 5-7 week turn-around time. They won't charge you until the item has been made. I think I would prefer a color head, even if I wouldn't use the color wheels much (I prefer filters, at least for split grade that seems to be much easier than trying to dial things in) but it seems like it would avoid some of the downsides of the cold heads. Big perk of the cold head though, I hope anyway, is the lower heat will help in my small darkroom (it's a converted bathroom).

LEDs are the future though in my opinion. This (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?139056-LED-Diffusion-Lighthead-for-Omega-D5&highlight=omega+led) post has good info on how to make one. I was thinking I might try to design a 3D printed enclosure, but I also want to look at using RGB LEDs and having a means to trigger the DC side of the power supply using a conventional timer (since triggering on the AC side causes tons of lag). It's a project that will take a while and wanted to have a means to do printing in the interim. I can use the condensers of course but I did prefer the look of my Beseler 67 (a diffusion enlarger) and it did involve a lot less having to deal with imperfections and dust.

Drew Wiley

7-Jan-2019, 12:19

If you get a colorhead you won't need any kind of supplementary filters. No point. I have a special high-output 12x12 V54 on one of my 8x10 enlargers; but I can do the same thing with my colorhead enlargers, plus color printing. The electronics on my old D2 Omega colorhead finally gave out, but I kept the chassis, carriers etc, just in case I might want to revive it someday.

m00dawg

7-Jan-2019, 12:30

Now that I have a cold light I might as well use it, though I'll keep looking for a colorhead and in the interim look at LED solutions in case I don't find one. Another downside of the color head is I need a place to put the power supply (transformer) and I have very little room for it. My table basically has the enlarger, the timer, and a small place to put Ilford filters. The rest is the easel. No real way to add any more room easily (I could set the power supply on the floor if the cables are long enough though). Solveable problem but one I'll have to ponder. I have a breadrack in my bathtub right now. I need to get some plywood so I can sit it on top of that to gain more room and then maybe I can just stick the power supply there (it's right next to the enlarger). Yes, I need a bigger darkroom :) but that won't be happening anytime soon so I have to make due.

Drew Wiley

7-Jan-2019, 12:44

The power supply takes up less space than a timer. No big deal. You could even set it on the baseboard beside the column.

m00dawg

7-Jan-2019, 12:51

But that's where my timer goes :) Although valid point I could put on the left maybe (where my filters are now). Other problem is finding one. None locally and the 'Bay had a few but were missing parts. The one that seemed complete was being sold by a pawn shop with a not so perfect rating so it was a bit of a gable. In the meantime though I'll give this coldlight a go to see what I think. If it gives me the same contrast as the condensers then it's still an improvement I think if I can tame scratches/dust better.

Thanks for the help everyone! Gave me some things to think about and try!

m00dawg

15-Jan-2019, 02:49

jnantz

15-Jan-2019, 06:16

m00dawg
not sure if this is a tip or not but what i have heard
one of the biggest problems people have with
these cold light heads is they plug it in and start printing
right away and things are screwy
... so don't forget you have to plug in the heater for like 15-20 mins before
you do any printing, and don't do long exposures ( unless you have that
metrolux probe ) ( like with a regular incandescent bulb ) long light times
( like 30 seconds for example ) will give different light than 5 6second exposures..
have fun!
john

Robert Bowring

15-Jan-2019, 08:14

I have used an Aristo VCL 4500 variable contrast cold light head on my DII for a long time. If you can find one it may be the best solution for you. They do pop up on ebay once in a while.

m00dawg

15-Jan-2019, 10:38

Thanks all! Yeah, a colorhead of some sort would have been a bit more ideal I think since it would be a diffuser, function like a conventional lamp, and have the option to dial in filters; but I couldn't find any good options locally or otherwise. Long term plan is still to consider building an LED light box. Build those right and they have instant on (if switching on the DC, not the AC side of the power supply), can also dial in filters, run cool, bright, etc. But hopefully this works for now. And yep the lag time is something I'll be accounting for at least with contact sheets. Since I don't have a Metrolux or anything light it, or a voltage controlled source, it's something I may have to deal with for now.

neil poulsen

15-Jan-2019, 10:56

I'm with Doremus . . . get a color head. I've been using a Beseler 45s for the last few years. While I've not done testing, no filtration is pretty close to a middle contrast (contrast 2?). For more contrast, add magenta, and for less contrast, add yellow. (Cyan stays on zero.)

That said, Ansel Adams had some recommendations for using a cold light grid in his three books - I think that it would be the one on The Print.

m00dawg

15-Jan-2019, 11:34

Oh snap really? I must not have gotten far enough into it (The Print). I've never tried a colorhead workflow for BW paper but it seems like split grade would be a nightmare with it? For that reason I kinda liked the # filters, although I had to give up my above lens filters to go with the coldlight.

Andrew O'Neill

15-Jan-2019, 12:58

I think it was Howard Bond several years ago in PT magazine who did a test with W54 and yellow filters. He was able to get fairly even, graded steps that way.

Tin Can

15-Jan-2019, 13:01

He also did the research for Arista, his documents are still on the Arista website.

I think it was Howard Bond several years ago in PT magazine who did a test with W54 and yellow filters. He was able to get fairly even, graded steps that way.

Drew Wiley

15-Jan-2019, 14:57

Anything Ansel Adams said about cold lights would be about as relevant these days as Purina Stegosaurus Chow. Colorheads make VC printing very convenient; but I do know how to do the same thing on a cold light using split printing technique, among numerous other tricks. The V54 cold light is blue-green. Yellow filters would attenuate some of the blue and facilitate low contrast, while magenta attenuates green and facilitates high contrast. That can be simply dialed in on a colorhead, in a fully variable manner. What a V54 cold light is particularly good at when split printing is use of a deep green versus deep blue filter. Get high-quality glass ones for over the lens usage, just like you would for a camera. Most of the time my negatives are exposed and developed correctly enough that I don't any supplementary filtration. Or I might just need to tweak a little with one filter or another after the primary plain-light exposure. It's all fun and worthwhile with respect to the learning curve.

Merg Ross

15-Jan-2019, 16:37

Just to update on this issue in case anyone was curious what I ended up doing, Louise mentioned they had a bulb ready to ship so I went ahead and sprung for it since it should avoid having to do any stop-gaps with filters or throwing the condensers back in. It may be a few more days to wait but way less than 7 weeks so I can perhaps wait that long.

Based upon suggestions I'll have to modify how I do test strips and things for now and may have to deal with inconsistent output until I get a sensor or what not but I'm going to try it to see how big of an impact that has and evaluate MetroLux. I dunno if he is here but there is a community member on other forums that is working on an awesome darkroom timer that I'm keeping a close eye on. He wants to do a Kickstarter for it soon and from what I've seen thus far, I'll be in line for that.

I'm not clear on which tube you are getting from Louise; is it the V54? For the past twenty years I have been using the Aristo D2-Hi V54 tube with a 750 Dimmer and 1200 Contactor. The price at the time for the tube was $240. I have been very happy with this set-up. Perhaps I should check with Louise for a replacement to have on hand. Hope the new tube works out for you. I needed the dimmer to obtain longer exposure times with this bright light.

Drew Wiley

15-Jan-2019, 18:49

I really like the high-output V54 because I do frequently split-print using very deep 47 blue and 58 green filters, sometimes with the added density of a sandwiched unsharp mask. But at other times, that degree of light output has to be tamed. A sheet of neutral density lighting gel above the negative carrier will do that. But that's on one of my 8x10 units. My ole D2 is currently headless.

Steve Goldstein

15-Jan-2019, 19:56

... split printing is use of a deep green versus deep blue filter. Get high-quality glass ones for over the lens usage...

Is any manufacturer still producing the glass equivalents of Wratten 47 (blue) and Wratten 58 (green) filters these days?

m00dawg

15-Jan-2019, 20:00

Looks like Tiffen does. Interesting idea too of using straight blue or green over say the Ilford filters for extreme split grade printing. That lets a lot of light pass through I take it (over the Ilford filters)?

Steve Goldstein

16-Jan-2019, 08:00

Interesting idea too of using straight blue or green over say the Ilford filters for extreme split grade printing. That lets a lot of light pass through I take it (over the Ilford filters)?

Not necessarily. I use above-the-negative blue and green Rosco filters and the transmission of the blue one is really low, though it does seem maybe a half stop faster than an Ilford #5 filter with my V54-equipped Aristo head. The green filter is Rosco #389, the blue one is Rosco #68. Steve Sherman told me about these. I got both filters from Adorama, about $7 each for a 20x24 sheet.

Doremus Scudder

16-Jan-2019, 13:01

m00dawg

16-Jan-2019, 14:16

FWIW, one several VC papers (Fomabrom 111, MC-110 and Bergger Prestige), I can get more contrast using a #47 blue filter than I can using maximum magenta filtration with my Chromega heads. I use this rarely, but when I need it, it's handy to have. I use Wratten gels and a filter holder below the lens for this.

Best,

Doremus

So cool, I just never considered going with straight blue and green but it makes total sense (and is what LED heads do as was as I recall?). I think the only thing I'm worried about is the fact that the V54 doesn't emit any red (e.g. to help with composing, not for anything related to the paper). If I do an LED head I think I'll include some red LEDs for that purpose (maybe that can be turned off during exposure). But maybe I won't miss it that much *shrug*

Since you mention Bergger, can I ask what you think of it? As I recall they only do FB paper and I'm still using RC. I wanted to try FB later this year perhaps. Big issue is I don't have a great way to clean FB prints in my darkroom as well so I'll need to figure out another solution. But I like Pancro 400 enough that their papers peaked my interest.

Drew Wiley

17-Jan-2019, 17:31

58 green and 47 blue filters are sharp cutting, and very dense. 47B is even darker. If you were exposing a typical pan film, a 58 green would require three stops of compensation, a 47 blue, generally four stops. So visually, it's kinda hard to dodge and burn using these unless your primary light source is rather bright. But that certainly doesn't mean printing times will be significantly slowed down. Quite the contrary. That's because the high-contrast layer of VC papers is specifically blue sensitive, and the low-contrast layer, green sensitive. So blocking ALL of the other color light does not have the same effect as it does with human visual sensitivity. Tiffen still makes em, as well as Formatt, I believe. Gels can also still be readily found; but I prefer glass. But of course, using less intense blue or green filters will allow at least some of the other color light through, and work much like progressively deep magenta or yellow filters.

m00dawg

21-Jan-2019, 20:45

I received my V54 today! The sure did pack it well - it came in quite the oversized box with tons of padding. In any case, I installed it and it's working great! I managed to make a decent print using a #2 filter - looked just about right for what I would expect. I gotta say though it is BRIGHT. I had to stop down to f/32 and it was still a 5 second exposure. To work around that, I now have a stack of 3 Hitech ND filters to drop it down six stops. That gets me to 10 seconds at 5.6 - a little much so I may remove the top filter, but I wanted to make sure I had room to dodge burn in all formats (my 35mm enlarging lens only goes down to f16 as I recall).

Test strips worked out pretty well more or less - exposure was so short more testing is required but I did get proper bands and they seemed to be a stop apart. I just turned the metronome on and kept the light on, exposing each strip after 3 seconds. Easy peasy.

Guess I'll need to get some decent NDs though. Sharpness seemed good through the Hitechs but stacking filters like that makes me concerns I might be causing shenaigans. I guess I'll need to pick up a few NDs to use for the cause. Nice to have more light than not enough I suppose.

It's so bright it does point out ALL the places the enlarger leaks light though. I had to put gaffer tape on parts of it to help mute the light. Doesn't seem to be fogging the paper but I didn't do any long exposure tests yet.

Overall I'm pretty satisfied but glad I had some NDs lying around for sure.

Merg Ross

21-Jan-2019, 21:27

Robbie Bedell

22-Jan-2019, 06:50

I remember when I got that big box from UPS! Lots of gray foam. Best Packing in the world. My lamp was a bit 'jumpy' when I first turned it on. It flickered around for a while. I called Louise and she said to just use it for a while and it will settle down and it did. Good luck!

www.robbiebedell.photoshelter.com

m00dawg

22-Jan-2019, 08:02

Glad to hear that your anticipated V54 arrived safely. In my earlier post, I mentioned the brightness issue. Hence my use of the 750 Dimmer. You might condsider using something similar instead of stacking filters. I prefer exposures in the 20sec. range. Enjoy!

Doh I forgot about the dimmer option! I was searching the thread yesterday for info on filters but yeah that's a thought. You mentioned a Contactor but I'm not entirely sure what that is? I don't have a lot of experience with neon lights or whatever bulb this is :) Looks like the light is AC powered (runs from a transformer) so a normal dimmer should drop the incoming voltage and thus make it dimmer correct?

The filters aren't bad necessarily - well, definitely extreme for 4x5 though didn't seem to affect sharpness. I was worried stacking 3 filters might cause newton rings or some such but I didn't see any (I only printed on 4x5 negative last night though). I ended up only needing a 2-stop for 35mm which makes me think 120 may require a 3 or 4-stop. I also prefer being able to get up to 20 seconds or so for prints, at least if I'm dodging/burning. Otherwise I like to be around 10 seconds.

The light spillage I'm going to keep working on. It doesn't seem to fog papers but it certainly lights up the room heh.

Otherwise though I'm loving it. It produced great prints at contrast levels I'm much more used to than with a condenser so I'm quite happy!

Robbie Bedell

22-Jan-2019, 09:43

It would be good to look around for a Zone VI Cold Light Stabilizer. It has a dimmer built in and consistent light output.

www.robbiebedell.photoshelter.com

Merg Ross

22-Jan-2019, 10:45

This is the dimmer I use. It measures 5 1/4 x3 x 2H.

https://www.light-sources.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/d750_dimmer_info.pdf

Tin Can

22-Jan-2019, 11:06

Very nice and I am sure very hard to find.

But it does indicate a well oversized device is specified.

Assuming Aristo named it for rating at 750 watts. I measure my W54 at 300 watts.

This is the dimmer I use. It measures 5 1/4 x3 x 2H.

https://www.light-sources.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/d750_dimmer_info.pdf

Drew Wiley

23-Jan-2019, 15:36

m00dawg

23-Jan-2019, 15:44

Consistent light output is tricky with cold lights. A better approach is a "light integrator" which measure the actual amount of light and then adjusts the timing intervals. Zone VI had a device like this specially for cold lights called a Compensating Metronome which had a probe for the light head and adjusted the frequency of audible beeps based upon the light output. Typical light integrators are used in UV printers or "plate burners" instead. Maybe one of those would work too; but you would have to look up the spectral sensitivity of current models.

Yep I thought about the Metrolux mentioned earlier here. It's on my list but I may hold-off as a new modern timer someone is working on (part of the Reddit/Discord /r/analog folks). I don't think he's quite ready to fully announce it yet, but soon. I've seen some tidbits and it looks very exciting.

Luis-F-S

23-Jan-2019, 17:20

Sure, the Metrolux works wonderfully with cold light, but some people would rather wait for an imaginary (exciting) better mouse trap!

Luis-F-S

23-Jan-2019, 17:22

Consistent light output is tricky with cold lights. A better approach is a "light integrator" which measure the actual amount of light and then adjusts the timing intervals. Zone VI had a device like this specially for cold lights called a Compensating Metronome which had a probe for the light head and adjusted the frequency of audible beeps based upon the light output. Typical light integrators are used in UV printers or "plate burners" instead. Maybe one of those would work too; but you would have to look up the spectral sensitivity of current models.

What the Metrolux does!!!!!!!!!!! It adjusts the length of a second to compensate for the fluctuations of the light intensity. Some of us don't like audible beaps! Eric, feel free to chime in!