What is an Apo-Artar worth?

[John C Murphy]

I like the Schneider 480mm Apo-Artar lens, but for the past year I haven't seen any turn up on ebay or at Midwest Photo. Lens and Repro always has one for sale, but the price is around $1700, which seems too high. I know the market value of an item is "whatever someone is willing to pay for it", so I'm wondering what would you pay for this lens?

[Terence McDonagh]

I bought one from them in slightly rough condition, but great glass and no shutter for $235 about two years ago.

Even if it's mint and in a shutter that seems high.

[Ted Harris]

John, I bought, mounted in shutter and traded a Schneider 480 several years ago. Here are the details, make your own judgments:

1) Bought the lens on eBay in 1999 or 2000 for around $350 in barrel. Late model serial number 13xxxxxx but not absolute latest the last few of which were multicoated.

2) Had Steve Grimes mount it in my own #5 shutter for $255.

3) In 2003 or early 2004 traded it even up for a like new Nikon 450 M, latest black shutter, etc. I figure the value on that to be around $800-850.

Given that unless it is one of the very few latest multicoated samples in a shutter and in pristine condition I would think the price is very high. My own experience with the lens was not all that great as I traded it rather quickly. I find the Nikon to be an excellent lens for 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10. BTW, a new Nikkor M 450 is going for 1150 at Midwest and if you like that lens I suggest you jump since they now appear to be out of production.

As you noted, you have to decide what it is worth, but it sure wouldn’t be worth that much to me.

[Terence McDonagh]

I should add that, even uncoated, my Apo-Artar is sharp as can be. I originally intended to use it as a portrait lens on the 8x10 but it's just too sharp. Now I use it for landscapes and bought an old, un-labeled, brass lens for portraits.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Late model serial number 13xxxxxx but not absolute latest the last few of which were multicoated.

Ted,

Are you sure the very late APO Artars were multicoated? I have one or two Schneider brochures that list them as multicoated, but I have never seen an actual multicoated Schneider APO Artar (and I've seen several with serial numbers in the low 14,xxx,xxx range - all single coated). I specifically asked both Schneider USA and Schneider in Germany about this a couple years ago when I was writing an article on Schneider lenses. Both told me that no multicoated APO Artars were ever produced. This seems to be in aggrement with the last posting in this thread (http://largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/topic/173823.html).

John,

If you're having trouble finding a Schneider APO Artar, you might want to also consider a late shutter-mounted Rodenstock 480mm APO Ronar. The APO Ronars are essentially the same design as the APO Artars (some construction, same coverage, same level of performance), but they are much more common and usually sell for less than the late Schneider made APO Artars. Also, late APO Ronars are definitely multicoated (and labeled "MC"). KEH currently has a multicoated 480mm APO Ronar in an all-black Copal No. 3 shutter listed on their web site in excellent condition for $789. Seems like a bargain compared to a $1700 single coated APO Artar.

Kerry

[Bruce Watson]

What would I pay? No idea. However, there is a 19" Goerz Apo-Artar in Copal 3 on feebay right now. Same basic lens AFAIK, but manufactured before Schneider bought Goerz. You can watch and see what it goes for. I'd guess it would go for something in the range of $600-800 but you never know.

[Ted Harris]

Kerry,

I think we talked about this when you were doing the article. I have seen pictures of one that was definitely multicoated but no information as to weather it was done at the factory or after market or (and this I suspect is the case) was a special order/special design for some government agency or other.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

I have seen pictures of one that was definitely multicoated but no information as to weather it was done at the factory or after market or (and this I suspect is the case) was a special order/special design for some government agency or other.

Ted,

Do you recall if it was labeled "MC" or "Multicoating", or was it obviously multicoated based on the reflections in the photo? If there is such a lens out there, it must be very rare and would probably sell for even more than the $1700 mentioned above. I still think a late, multicoated APO Ronar is a much better buy - much easier to find and I wouldn't be afraid to take it out and use it in the field.

Kerry

[John C Murphy]

Kerry,

I shoot 4x5, not 8x10, so I don't intend to take the 480mm lens out into the field. I am looking for one to replace the Fujinon 450C that I used to use for portraits, but found it just did not produce that "WOW" response that the Fujinon 300C does, so I sold it recently on ebay.

This is to say that I need a portrait lens in the 450-480mm length that produces images similar in quality to the 300C (i.e., really crisp, realistic images). So far, of the lenses I've tried, only the Apo-artar gave that result. Please don't ask we why, because I don't know what it is that makes a portrait special, but I see that certain lenses produce a distinctly better images than other lenses.

Thus, the thing I need to know about the APO Ronar is this: does it produce an image similar to the Apo-artar or the 300C? I guess I'll try to rent one and see...

[Ted Harris]

Kerry,

It was obviously multicoated based on the reflections in the picture. I don;'t recall that it was marked MC or multicoating. I fully agree with you regarding the potential rareness and the preference for the Ronar.

John,

Have you tried the Nikkor 450M? IMO it meets all your criteria and I have found it to be superior to the Apo Artar I had.

[Mark Sawyer]

A quick note that I have the 480 Ronar and the 450 Nikkor M, and shoot with about eight lenses that I know fairly well. I always thought of the Ronar as fairly contrasty, but the Nikkor is the only lens I have that I actually have a hard time dealing with how contrasty it is on B/W film. I've actually had perverse thoughts of taking it apart and "de-coating" it just to calm it down...

[Steve Hamley]

Mark,

Don't do that; I have a nice uncoated lens I'll swap you for the Nikkor. :D

Steve

[Chuck Herndon]

Hi, I have a Gorez 19" lense for sale if interested. It is a Red Dot Artar f:11, #784597, Equiv. Focus 481.5, Back Focus: 457, Nodes 3.6. Please email if interested I am concidering to list it on Ebay in near future. Thank you very much.