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neildw
4-Dec-2018, 01:27
Does someone shoot LF camera's in combination with Profoto (B1)?

Let me go more in detail on what I'm aiming to do.

I am a portrait maker and story teller.

On the first; it's easy. I make portraits.
On the second; it's trying to capture a large image of a concept, situation, alternative world.

Until now I did this digitally with my Canon 5DMK3.
But following the example of one of my favourite photographers (Gregory Crewdson) I want to start and make my large work on my Large Format camera.

This means; lights, lights, lights.

So I was wondering if others here work with LF camera's with strobes on location and how they work.

blue4130
4-Dec-2018, 02:00
Do you currently use them with your Canon digital? They work the exact same (assuming you use shuttered lenses), only you can't preview as easy as digital.

Pere Casals
4-Dec-2018, 03:33
I've been practicing all that with Bowens Esprit strobes and a Sinar Norma.

Technically, the only problem that I had is that the old contacts in the LF shutters may not make a good electric contact. Those contacts were made for switching a higher voltage (than the one used today) and because of a thin oxid layer it may missfire the flash.

To avoid problems I made an auxiliary triggering circuit, this is a 9V batt feeding the PC conector in the LF lens, the PC output goes to an optocoupler (CNY74-2, cheap), then to a resistor and then to the batt negative. The other side of the optocoupler it's what triggers the remote link for the flash.

Let me know (PM) if you have problems with that, (this may depend on the shutter model), I'd send you easy instructions to solve that if you have that problem.

In practice I found pretty useful using the DSLR to evaluate illumination, not the same result than with film but it's interesting learning to interpret the DSLR image to predict the LF film result, a flash meter can be of great help, but the dslr image also shows how the rim/effect is working, the fall, the light modifications, the glares, etc

At least the DSLR pre-shots help to not wasting film while learning (in my case).

I've also rigged the DSLR to the Sinar for two things (shooting at same time), one is determining if the shot was good, face expresion and open eyes, people like to close eyes when you are to shot :) and you have to guess what you may have in the sheet.

The other situation, I was testing pseudo i-TTL with the Sinar-Nikon rig, so with low ambient illumination and LF slow shutter speed I made the LF shutter fire the DSLR, and the DSLR was TTL/Ratio controlling the strobes, in that case I was using Yongnuo YN685 i-TTL Speedlight flashes instead the Esprits.

Let me add an opinion, some praise the beauty of natural illumination (me also), but if one learns to illuminate like Karsh then he has a few more choices...

neildw
4-Dec-2018, 04:22
This sounds like a lot to me.

I want to, fcourse, try it first on a smaller project.
I had a loose hot shoe with cable, but it's not firing.



I've been practicing all that with Bowens Esprit strobes and a Sinar Norma.

Technically, the only problem that I had is that the old contacts in the LF shutters may not make a good electric contact. Those contacts were made for switching a higher voltage (than the one used today) and because of a thin oxid layer it may missfire the flash.

To avoid problems I made an auxiliary triggering circuit, this is a 9V batt feeding the PC conector in the LF lens, the PC output goes to an optocoupler (CNY74-2, cheap), then to a resistor and then to the batt negative. The other side of the optocoupler it's what triggers the remote link for the flash.

Let me know (PM) if you have problems with that, (this may depend on the shutter model), I'd send you easy instructions to solve that if you have that problem.

In practice I found pretty useful using the DSLR to evaluate illumination, not the same result than with film but it's interesting learning to interpret the DSLR image to predict the LF film result, a flash meter can be of great help, but the dslr image also shows how the rim/effect is working, the fall, the light modifications, the glares, etc

At least the DSLR pre-shots help to not wasting film while learning (in my case).

I've also rigged the DSLR to the Sinar for two things (shooting at same time), one is determining if the shot was good, face expresion and open eyes, people like to close eyes when you are to shot :) and you have to guess what you may have in the sheet.

The other situation, I was testing pseudo i-TTL with the Sinar-Nikon rig, so with low ambient illumination and LF slow shutter speed I made the LF shutter fire the DSLR, and the DSLR was TTL/Ratio controlling the strobes, in that case I was using Yongnuo YN685 i-TTL Speedlight flashes instead the Esprits.

Let me add an opinion, some praise the beauty of natural illumination (me also), but if one learns to illuminate like Karsh then he has a few more choices...

Pere Casals
4-Dec-2018, 04:48
This is the circuit (click to enlarge...):

185084

You can buy the CNY74-2 at www.mouser.com, some $1, there you have also the datasheet.

If you use a higher voltage then increase proportionally the resistor, say R2k for 18V.

alexmuir
4-Dec-2018, 05:52
I use a Calumet branded studio flash with 4x5. It was inexpensive, but works, and takes Elinchrome accessories. I have used it successfully with a standard lead to my shutters. It has worked fine with that, and with cheap radio triggers. I've used three lenses, an old 210mm Symmar convertible, a more recent 210mm Symmar and a 150mm Sironar. Shutters are Compur, Copal and Prontor Pro. The cable can get in your way, however, especially if you're moving around a lot adjusting pose, reflectors, etc. The radio thing just hangs discretely out of your way. I also have a (large) battery pack for the flash which gets rid of the mains cable. Again, useful if you're moving around a lot.
Alex


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

chassis
4-Dec-2018, 18:48
I use strobes with large format in studio, and strobes with mechanical film cameras (medium format) on location. Both examples are for portraits, both are great solutions.

To power the strobe pack on location, I use either available mains power, or bring a small portable gasoline powered generator. Works a treat.

In both cases, with large format in studio and medium format on location, I use radio triggers connected to the shutter with a PC cable to the radio trigger. It works well. Neither my LF or MF setups have hot shoes, and neither camera has on board metering. I use a flash meter for exposure.

An important decision to be made is, what lighting effect is desired. This leads to asking how much light is needed and which type of modifiers are required. My portrait setup is typically one light in a soft box, with or without a reflector. Simple and portable.

Two23
4-Dec-2018, 20:21
Assuming you have Copal lenses, no problem. Connect a trigger (or sync cable) between post connection and the flash. Use a flash meter to get an exposure. I use a Minolta IVF. I used six monolights for the photo below, using radio triggers.

neildw
8-Dec-2018, 02:59
It is indeed a copal lens.

neildw
8-Dec-2018, 03:27
https://nl.hama.com/6945/hama-flitskabel-profi-10m

Would this do it?

alexmuir
8-Dec-2018, 03:36
That is the kind of cable I use.
Alex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Pere Casals
8-Dec-2018, 03:51
https://nl.hama.com/6945/hama-flitskabel-profi-10m

Would this do it?

It's just a cable with connectors, if you plug it to the remote (or to the flash) and then you use any metal thing to short circuit the ends in the free conector then the flash (or remote) should fire.

Check the pdf manual for your devices (flashes, remotes) to know if a socket is for input (to fire the flash or the remote) or for output (to fire other flashes or remotes).

chassis
8-Dec-2018, 06:46
The Profoto site shows the B1x as having a 3.5mm mini phone cable.

Copal shutters, from many documentation sources, indicate a standard PC connection.

The Hama cable you linked to has a 3.5mm mini phone on one end, and a PC on the other. This system should work.

Tobias Key
8-Dec-2018, 11:05
The main issue is you are going to need a lot more power to go from typical 35mm working apertures (5.6-8) to get to 4x5 working apertures (16-22) for equivalent depth of field. As long as you are two stops away from using your heads at full power you should be fine. I shoot portraits with 500w Bowens heads and it's easy to get up to full power if your shooting through a soft box.

mvanderaa
2-Mar-2019, 21:07
Neildw:
I shoot Profoto heads in the studio with full-frame digital, medium format film, and large format 4x5 and 8x10. My approach to lighting is the same regardless of equipment. Do you have the Profoto air remote? I'll send you a photo of the air remote plugged-into my 300mm on an 8x10 (when I'm in the studio tomorrow.) I'm far from an large format expert, but have a lot of experience with Profoto.

Christopher Barrett
3-Mar-2019, 07:03
I have the B1X, the B10 and half a dozen D1's. I shot architecture with strobe on 4x5 for a dozen years before digital. What you want is a radio slave and a PC to MiniPhono cable. Easy peasy with Copal shutters and you get flash sync through the full range of shutter speeds. If you get the B1, buy Profoto's Air Remote. Avoid the TTL model, it's more expensive, useless to you and eats batteries in a day instead of weeks. The B1 has the radio receiver built in, so you don't need to connect anything to it to sync. The B1's aren't the strongest at 500ws, so depending on how close you can get them, and the modifiers, you'll probably get f/11 or /16. You can get the D1s at 1000 ws if you need more power. I've had mine nearly 10 years, they've flown around the world and they never break.

Crewdson uses big movie set lighting.

-CB

mvanderaa
3-Mar-2019, 19:49
Christoper is right on. I'll add a couple comments to elaborate on what he mentioned. The B10 (250ws) and the B1X (500ws) are battery powered and capable of TTL metering (in addition to manual). The D1's are 1,000ws, plug-in, and are manual. If you we're set on working in the studio, I'd get a D1. It's the most powerful of the 3 and you don't need TTL. If you think you might want to take your strobes out of the studio, I'd get one of the other for the battery powered capability.
As promised, here's two images showing my 300mm on my 8x10 plugged-into the PC cord you referenced earlier. When the shutter trips, the air remote trips the strobe(s). The other photo shows the air remote plugged-into my light meter. This is the simplest way I've found to trip the strobes when pressing the meter's button. There are other ways, but this is not only the simplest (IMO) but the cheapest.
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