Beseler CB7 carriage motor problem

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Hello I'm new here,
I just purchased a Beseler CB7 and a DG-1 color head. Luckily it seems like everything is there and most of it works. The enlarger is the older model silver with a Voltage regulator and Resistrol. I removed both of those. My problem is with the carriage motor. It starts to move the carriage but then strains and seems to just rorate and not raise or lower the carriage. Could this be the motor, or an alignment or gear issue. It seems to me that the motor is fine but the gears or something else is wrong.
Any ideas or help is appreciated.

[Tin Can]

When it stalls try moving the knob by hand. It rotates directly with the motor and is right in front.

It is possible, but very slow to move the head elevation all the way up and down.

If you feel it sticking, it may be the motor bearings, a bad belt or gears.

The motor is very expensive for NOS, I think the 45 MX uses the same motor and belt.

Where are you?

[photojpg]

Hi, I am in Northern California, it moves up and down by hand but is very slow. I am going to take apart the area around the motor to get a look at the gears and belt you mentioned. I have a feeling it is the belt or bearings, I tried adding some wd40 to the rusty looking areas. It looks pretty straightforward as far as taking it apart.

[Tin Can]

Let me know if you need anything.

[photojpg]

Thanks, we will see

[LabRat]

If it's what I think, the drive axle wuth the gears on the end on both sides sometimes will have jumped 1 tooth on the gear on one side causing binding, causing too much tension...

Check for that...

Steve K

[jp]

I'd make sure the tape measure looking spring in the middle that goes from the top of the frame to the transformer box isn't stuck too; that could prevent movement in one direction.

It's probably something basic mechanical or lubrication.

[photojpg]

Thank you everyone for your ideas, I removed the cover over the motor on the front. The belt seems fine, I then moved the head all the way from bottom to top by hand. It sounds like the bearings in the motor are bad or need to be lubricated. After doing that it started to work like normal but the bearings do sound bad. I will check the tape spring from the transformer tomorrow. I have also began lubricating a lot of the parts and applying oil to rusted areas.does anyone know where I can get a replacement motor?

[AJ Edmondson]

Google Hurst Electric Motors. They make some really great motors including really high-torque motors and a wide variety of speeds and prices are (in my experience) not bad. I made a focussing drive for my Elwood 8x10 and several other similar type applications.

[Tin Can]

https://www.beselerphoto.com/parts/

I think, but don't know for sure that a 45MX motor will fit a CB7. They look very similar to me.

Ask Beseler.

Look on eBay.

I am keeping my spare...

Good luck!

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I have another question, is the upper bellows supposed to be fully compressed like in my photo? And wat about the condenser stage, I imagine it should be all the way down like I have it? Any input welcome. Does anyone have an instruction book for the color head?
184795184798

[Tin Can]

Depends on size of neg.

Scale B is adjustable with a right side knob.

I have no manual and don't need one. I use a Condenser head and the same Color Head as yours. Interchangeable on CB& not on 45MX.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4903/31136741277_0a7c6d6339_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PrrWoR)Scale B CB7 Condensor Head (https://flic.kr/p/PrrWoR) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

[photojpg]

Randy, I will check with Beseler, I had no idea they were still in business, I'm happy they are!

[ic-racer]

For the diffusion/color head, you would want the diffusion plate as close to the negative as possible without being in focus. As RM shows above, keep it at the 4x5 position.
Some text from the manual on motor adjustment and lamphead placement:
184800
184801

[Duolab123]

I have another question, is the upper bellows supposed to be fully compressed like in my photo? And wat about the condenser stage, I imagine it should be all the way down like I have it? Any input welcome. Does anyone have an instruction book for the color head?
184795184798

As JP posted earlier "the tape measure " you can see how it attaches in Randy's photo. Due to the added weight Beseler put a spring assist in the transformer that hangs from the chrome cross tube. It's not seen in your pictures. You will see a small clip on top of the transformer, pull it out and attach it to the top of the frame,. This will solve your problem. Took me 5 years to figure it out. :cool:
Best Regards Mike

[Duolab123]

Depends on size of neg.

Scale B is adjustable with a right side knob.

I have no manual and don't need one. I use a Condenser head and the same Color Head as yours. Interchangeable on CB& not on 45MX.



https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4903/31136741277_0a7c6d6339_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PrrWoR)Scale B CB7 Condensor Head (https://flic.kr/p/PrrWoR) by TIN CAN COLLEGE (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tincancollege/), on Flickr

I don't see the spring tape in OPs photos, in this picture from Randy you can see the attachment

[Duolab123]

This site has manual and brochures for CB 7 and a lot more

http://www.jollinger.com/photo/cam-coll/manuals/manuals.html

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Ok I checked the spring running from the transformer and made sure it was functional, I pulled it all the way out and gently let it recede, then hooked it back up. I think that along with all the oil and lubrication hrlped. My new question is can I out some oil on the metal gear/sprockets that run on the teeth in the columns on each side? They are very rusty looking, and could use oil but I don't want to make them slip. Also I have studied the manual but still do not understand how to adjust the focusing block for the lens stage, it is to stiff now and I would like to loosen it some?

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The focus motor works fine but the tension on the focusing block is too tight I can't seem to find the screws it shows in the manual to adjust this? Any help is appreciated

[Tin Can]

Don't know.

Yours sounds very rusty, mine is not.

Try cleaning everything with very light oil and wiping it off without jamming bits of cloth or paper towel everywhere.

I have not needed to de rust or grease anything on any Beseler and I have had 6 of them.

Wait, one was very rusty, I stripped parts from it and recycled the chassis.

Like anything, gently massage it back to life. It may seem tough, but it is an optical instrument.

Post pictures for us to see the problems.

[photojpg]

I'll post some pictures tonight, it is mostly just surface rust nothing's terrible but it is on a other of the smaller parts.

[Gary Beasley]

A bit of WD 40 on a scotchbrite pad will remove the majority of the rust then you will need to protect the surface from rusting again. Carnauba wax is a frequent go to for this and has the added benefit of lubricating the parts without attracting much dust.

[LabRat]

Note that the motor noise might be normal, as the gear head motor usually has a loudish whine sound... The manual knob should be turning pretty fast while operating the motor, but if it is sluggish and humming, that's a motor issue, or binding issue...

Make sure it is not binding anywhere or it will eat up the gears...

The next thing to look at is the pads for the slides that the standards that slide on the monorail... Give them an up and down + sideways wiggle and see if they are too loose or tight... Don't just tighten them up too tight as that will cause damage to the bearing plates, as there is wear underneath that needs replacement pads if worn... Check and ask here first...

Steve K

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Steve,
After a lot of oil and wd40 things seem to he good now, it raises and lowers just fine and with no loud noises. Are you talking about those find that slide in the plastic channels on the column? If so I was going to look at those next to make sure they are working.

[photojpg]

I meant fins there are about 5 on each side.

[LabRat]

That too, but I mentioned the slides on the head monorail that the neg and other stages ride on... First, make sure the beveled monorail edges are smooth and clean for the stages to ride on...

Now Beseler assumes if everything is working correctly, the enlarger does not need alignment, so there is no adjustments available, but due to wear, those stage slides can distort or wear causing stage misalignment... The slide material is still available, so you should purchase a set or two... These should be snug, but not over tightened as this will distort the bearing holders....

If you align the enl, you have to align the column which is possible, but not too easy... Check back with us about it...

Steve K

[jp]

For alignment, I aligned the negative carrier with the lens board and baseboard. I used a laser torpedo level to make beams perpendicular to the surface going up or down to a mirror. If the beam returned to the same spot, it was aligned in that axis. Rotate level's azimuth 90 degrees and check the other way likewise.

[Paul Ron]

The color head weighs more than the original head so it does put a bit more strain on the motor but more than likely its the belt slipping hindering the movement.

As for noise, you have to clean the rust out of everything in the drive train, then lubricate it with lithium grease. WD is too thin as a lubricant but is good for the cleaning process.

Also the drive belt... get some BELT DRESSING from an auto store. Apply a bit to the pullies as its runing so you can get an even positive traction. Dont spray it on... put a bit in a cup n dab it on with a q-tip, it gets very sticky n will gunk up. All you need is a very small amount to just lightly wet the surfaces. let it dry as it runs for a minute or so n you will see it improves the traction, no more slipping.

[photojpg]

Thanks everyone, I am using litium white grease for some of the lubrication. The motor works fine now. I just need 5o take care of the surface rust on the unpainted areas. I will apply some of that belt dressing that Paul recommend. Then alignment. Thanks again!

[photojpg]

Now I just need a 4x5 camera :)

[Duolab123]

Now I just need a 4x5 camera :)

6x12 pan camera :)

[Paul Ron]

love my 9x12 AVUS for its light weight and packed size.

[photojpg]

6x12 pan camera :)

I own two 8 Banners pinhole cameras that are adjustable from 6x4.5 to 6x12, but yes a real pano would be nice too