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RodinalDuchamp
14-Nov-2018, 17:11
I am looking for paper recommendations (the application is a 1 off book). Here are the specifications needed: 17x22 or A2 size availability, double sided - here is a kicker, a good to suberb DMAX. I am flexible on the finish. I initially wanted glossy but then I realized I have not seen glossy in a book ever so matte or pearl finishes are OK with me.

So far here is what I have gathered as possible options:

Hahnemule Photo Rag Duo
The most expensive of the bunch. Is it really head and shoulders above the rest or just good marketing?
276 gsm, 100% cotton
White
Characteristic, beautiful defined felt structure
Double-sided, matt premium inkjet coating for outstanding print results
Acid- and lignin-free
ISO 9706 conform / museum quality for highest age resistance

Canson Infinity Rag Photographique Duo
Claims to have the highest DMAX available
100% Cotton Rag Base
Double-Sided Coating
Basis Weight: 220 gsm
Thickness: 13.8 mil
Whiteness: 89.67%
No OBA Content
Acid Free and Internally Buffered
Instant Drying
High Water Resistance
Surface Finish: Smooth Matte


Moab Entrada Rag Bright 300 Paper
Uses optical brighteners. I am not sure if this is a pro or a con.
Machine-Made 100% Cotton Fiber Base
Basis Weight: 300 gsm
Thickness: 22.5 mil
Brightness: 103%
Whiteness: 95%
Double-Sided
Utilizes Optical Brightening Agents
Acid Free and Calcium Carbonate Buffered
Water Resistant
Surface Finish: Matte

scm
16-Nov-2018, 01:29
I'm a fan of Red River (https://www.redrivercatalog.com/browse/double-sided-photo-inkjet-papers-2-sided.html) papers, it appears that they have a couple that might fit your needs

invisibleflash
16-Nov-2018, 07:42
OP, I have used them all when printing the Encyclopedia of Photographic and Fine Art Ink Jet Printing Media. (When I did the books years ago, I should have made Inkjet as one word, but my ancient word processor kept throwing it out!)

I don't have any of the sets left to reference, they have all been placed. But I would not get too wound up on DMAX. Most media produced today makes decent photos.

I print extensively with DUO paper making artist's books. Curl is a big issue with smaller papers that are cut from a large roll. Depending how close to the center of the roll the paper is cut, this will affect the curl. Since you are using large paper, hopefully curl is not a big issue. The largest books I've made have been letter size and smaller. Ink and paper cost is an issue with me as my budget is very meager.

Unfortunately one cannot predict what part of the roll the paper comes from when we buy a box…or 50 boxes. I’ve ended up with thousands of dollars of useless paper. If you have a slight curl, just alternate pages from front to reverse. If you don't do this, your book will develop a curl to it and not be flat. The plastic covers and interleaf also suffers from curling as well as defect issues. Once the box of paper is opened it is generally not returnable. If you are able to return the curled paper for a refund, the dealer generally wont sell you more if you keep returning order after order.

With matte papers you will have ink transfer to the preceding page if you have heavy blacks. Over time the blacks will develop a shine to them similar to wet prints that develop silvering. I'd advise to use 'bound in' archival plastic interleaf to avoid ink transfer if you use matte. Semi gloss or gloss RC paper has no ink transfer problems.

Matte paper and non RC semi gloss fine art paper has issues with marring. This is a big problem with some of the nice looking air dried 'F' surface inkjet papers. To test, run your fingernail lightly over a sheet of unprinted paper to see if the surface gets marred up when looking at it from an angle. For book printing you want to use paper that is somewhat durable. If you use a textured matte paper it tends to flake off small specks of the image and is kinda delicate. It is best left for prints under glass. Just rub a cured print with rough fingers to test. The issue is the cotton base, it is not durable under abuse. Hahnemühle Photo Rag Duo Matte is very durable as far as flaking. The flaking issue is with textured matte, not so much with the ultra smooth matte papers.

Here are the chapter listings from the Encyclopedia of Photographic and Fine Art Ink Jet Printing Media that gives you some options for DUO papers to test for you book project.

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Volume 5 – Chapter 1
DUO RC Gloss
Promaster Photo Image Album Duo Glossy
Red River Paper Pecos River Gloss Duo 86 lb.
Staples Gloss Duo 8 mil Germany

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Volume 5 – Chapter 2
DUO RC Semi-Gloss
Inkpress Duo Semi-Gloss 180 gsm
Inkpress Duo Semi-Gloss 210 gsm
Moab Lasal Semi-Gloss Duo 330 gsm
Premier Photo Semi-Gloss Duo 12 mil
Red River Paper Zeppelin Semi-Gloss Duo 45 lb

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Volume 5 – Chapter 3

DUO RC Luster
Ilford Galerie Smooth Luster Duo 280 gsm
Inkjetart Micro Ceramic Hi-Luster Duo – No weight listed
Inkpress Lustre Duo 9.5 mil 280 gsm
Mitsubishi Imaging Pictorico Duo Luster
Red River Paper Arctic Polar Luster Duo 50 lb

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Volume 5 – Chapter 4

DUO RC Matte
Brilliant Supreme Matte Duo 230 gsm Germany
Epson Premium Presentation Paper Duo Matte **** 48 lb Japan
Inkpress Duo Matte 30 – 5 mil
Inkpress Duo Matte 44 – 9 mil
Inkpress Duo Matte 80 – 12 mil
Moab Lasal Photo Matte Duo 230 gsm
Red River Paper Premium Matte Duo 32 lb
Red River Paper Premium Matte Duo 50 lb
Red River Paper Polar Matte Duo 60 lb
Staples Matte Duo 8 mil Germany
Staples Photo Supreme Duo Matte 11 mil Germany

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Volume 5 – Chapter 5

DUO Fine Art Matte
Arista II Fine Art Matte Bright White Duo 210 gsm
Arista II Fine Art Matte Natural White Duo 210 gsm
Canson Rag Photographique Duo 220 gsm
Hahnemühle Fine Art Photo Rag Book & Album 220 gsm
Hahnemühle Photo Rag Duo Matte 276 gsm
Innova Smooth Cotton High White Duo 215 gsm
Premier Art Fine Art Smooth Matte Duo 325 gsm
Promaster Natural Watercolor Duo 190 gsm

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Volume 5 – Chapter 6

DUO Fiber Matte
Arista II Fiber Duo Matte 215 gsm
Arista II Fiber Duo Bright White Heavy Weight Matte 330 gsm
Arista II Fiber Duo Natural White Heavy Weight Matte 330 gsm
Hahnemühle Photo Matte Fibre Duo 210 gsm
Harman by Hahnemühle Matte Fibre Duo 210 gsm

The majority of these papers are not usable by my standards for my books. What you need to do to start out is to buy a small sample of each paper your interested in to test. Then go on from there. Before I printed my first book I spent a lot of $ testing out many papers and techniques. Decide on a rigid cover and it can help you with keeping a large book flat.

Good luck with your project!

Steven Ruttenberg
16-Nov-2018, 08:13
I use Canson® Infinity Baryta Prestige 340gsm - Baryta Gloss (acutally not a glossy surface in the traditional super smooth shiny surface. This paper looks, feels like actual photo paper and looks it too) with no optical brightners

Will also be using Ilford Prestige Cotton Artist Textured also with no optical brightners. 310gsm

Both of these work great and are heavy papers.

Steven Ruttenberg
16-Nov-2018, 08:16
As for paper curl I use a de-roller that can be done by cutting sheet first or after printing. It does not damage the surface where image is printed. Flattens images right out permanently in about 1-2 minutes max.

http://www.aztek.com/Deroller.html

Corran
16-Nov-2018, 17:07
OP, your quandary has a lot to do with personal preferences. I suggest you buy some of the variety packs and try them out (if they are available for those papers). When I did a large inkjet project I ended up preferring the simple Epson Enhanced Matte paper for b&w over Red River and other offerings. In fact while some of my colleagues love and swear by RR I can't stand that paper. Just my personal opinion - so I think it's hard to answer this question objectively.

Peter De Smidt
16-Nov-2018, 17:14
Bryan, are you talking about their polar matte?

Corran
16-Nov-2018, 17:17
If I am remembering correctly, no, it was just the basic Enhanced Matte. I think I tried a few different Epson papers at the time and settled on that for b&w images and I preferred the Epson Velvet (textured) paper for color.

I was also limited to what I could afford at the time so I didn't look at any really high-end papers.

RodinalDuchamp
17-Nov-2018, 08:21
Iluvmyviewcam thank you so much for that information. You raise some critical points about longevity which do bither me.

This project was birthed from me not wanting to hang framed prints and instead the creation of a 1 off book seemed to be the most attractive way to show this work to me at least.

I also wanted to use it in the future as a sort of portfolio to show should the nees arise. The book format is very attractive and seems like the perfect vehicle for how I want my audience to experience the work however I am extremely uneasy about the ink transfer over time. Marring not so much but the ink transferring is a major problem.

I am rethinking whether or not this is a sound financial investment. I know that if I decide to make silver prints they will outlast me. I may still make a book but on a smaller scale for personal use but I don't think sinking $600 (2018 money) into an inkjet book is wise, sinking $600 into silver prints however is a bit more reasonable as far as longevity.

Willie
17-Nov-2018, 09:00
Epson cold press fine art papers look pretty good head to head with those you mention.
Second the suggestion to get a few sheets of each and try them with the same image before the final decision.

Jim Andrada
18-Nov-2018, 22:43
I've been very happy with Moab Juniper.

earlnash
19-Nov-2018, 09:57
For bookmaking, the paper must fold cleanly. I have tried almost every duo paper that is semi-gloss/luster/pearl. They all have a coating that cracks and fragments at the fold. So I've settled on a matte paper.

Among the ones you list, Moab Entrada Rag (bright or natural) is very fine. They even sell batches in which the grain of the paper is indicated (grain short or long). As good as the Moab is the top-end Red River duo matte paper, at less than half the cost. That is what I'm using now, with great satisfaction.

Other commentators are correct -- some of the ink on matte paper tends to rub off onto the facing page. Instead of interleaving the pages of the book, I have given the pages a very light spray of varnish before binding.