Developed paper yellow

[Henk]

Hello All,

I am new to LFF, so Hi !

Yesterday I developed some prints that have a strong yellow cast.
I suspect my developer, which is PQ universal 4 years old which was very brown

Does an expired developer does indeed give "yellow" prints ? Or do I have another problem ?

I tested on (new) Ilfobrom grade 3 and on (1 year old) Ilford MG IV Fiber.

Thanks !

[Jim Noel]

Try some fresh developer. Also, use fresh fixer fo adequate time.

[koraks]

An old developer may indeed give excessively warm tones, associated with very long development times and low contrast. A PQ developer concentrate should be colorless to light yellow. Brown is not good; it means particularly the hydroquinone has partly oxidized.

Fresh fixer as Jim says is a good idea; problems with fixer mostly manifest themselves in the final wash or after drying; initially the print looks fine but a yellow or pink cast appears as the print is exposed to normal light. Developer-related "toning" is immediately visible as you flip on the lights after fix or stop.

[Henk]

Ok, thanks. I hope this is indeed the issue.
I need to print more...
The past few years I did a lot of hybrid workflow (scan 4x5 and print on inkjet) which yields also very good results and "easier" editing of the prints.
But I like darkroom work and I am going to learn to print on graded paper.
The new PQ universal is ordered and on its way...

[Doremus Scudder]

Henk,

If the image itself (not the paper base) is yellow, then it's your developer. If the paper base has yellowed it's likely due to insufficient fixing (i.e., you fixer is dead).

You'll find it more economical in the long run to work with fresh chemicals... really saves on wasted paper.

Best,

Doremus

[Henk]

Thanks Doremus,
Yesterday I did a quick test with fresh HC110 dil A and fresh fixer.
Everything is ok. Print came out very nice. Tomorrow I will have my new PQ, so I
can start. Even with the HC 110, print was very smooth, I am already liking the Ilfobrom.
It will be a lot more work and thinking ahead to control the contrast, but I like that.

[Doremus Scudder]

Thanks Doremus,
Yesterday I did a quick test with fresh HC110 dil A and fresh fixer...

You'll get a better print using a print developer... but I guess HC110 will work in a pinch, just not very economical.

Glad you fixed your problem.

Best,

Doremus

[Henk]

PQ has arrived.

For "contrast control" with graded paper I intend to use following tools :
- use of red filter when exposing negative, when appropriate
- use of reciprocity of film
- Selenium toning negative
- Negative development (N, N-1, N+1,.... compensating development)
- Dilution of paper developer (PQ at 1+4 for higher contrast)
- Flash highlight areas of paper (tame extreme highlights)
- burning, dodging

Does that seem about right ?
Thanks

[koraks]

Not all of it. But first, why would you prefer graded paper? Variable contrast papers are much easier to get and they are very good indeed. Why make things unnecessarily complicated?

[Henk]

The only reason nowadays is that I like working in the darkroom and I also use MG paper.
I do also hybrid workflow and my personal vision is that with modern inkjet baryta papers, printers, inks and scanners I get results that rival and surpass silverhalide prints.
In my case, I use kodak 4x5 320TXP film, developed in HC110, Ilford gallery baryta gloss and silk paper, epson surecolor p600 printer with epson ultrachrome inks and an epson V850 flatbed scanner and full "color" management
I can now make prints from negatives that are better than my silvehalide prints of them because I have way much more control editing and that I am not all a master printer darkroomwise.
I am also going to send some files for lightjet printing on silverhalide baryta paper and see what that gives.
But as I said, I just like darkroom work a lot !

@koraks : could you specify which of the above techniques are not correct for contrast control, thanks.

[koraks]

Developer dilution doesn't do much apart from requiring longer development times. Moreover 1+4 gives lower contrast than a stronger dilution. Or did you mean to use dektol for negatives (why??)

Reciprocity failure seems like a very unpractical manner to deliberately manipulate contrast.

Selenium toning if negatives works, but it's really a last resort if somehow you messed up the negative in the first place.

Besides red filters, also consider other colors in particular yellow and orange; they give a bit more control.

I'm still wondering about your preference for graded over multi grade papers?

[Doremus Scudder]

PQ has arrived.

For "contrast control" with graded paper I intend to use following tools :
- use of red filter when exposing negative, when appropriate
- use of reciprocity of film
- Selenium toning negative
- Negative development (N, N-1, N+1,.... compensating development)
- Dilution of paper developer (PQ at 1+4 for higher contrast)
- Flash highlight areas of paper (tame extreme highlights)
- burning, dodging

Does that seem about right ?
Thanks

@Koraks,
I still like to work with graded papers. I find the mid-tone rendering better in the lower-contrast range (grades 1-2 and thereabouts). Plus, Galerie is just a beautiful paper. VC papers are great for negs that need higher-contrast settings. I'm using and liking Adox MC 110 a lot these days.

@Henk,
As Koraks mentioned, changing developer dilution and time to control contrast is a rather limited tool these days. Most papers don't respond to either with a real increase in contrast, but rather different paper speed. The end effect is just like changing print exposure time a bit. That said, I'll use 15-60 seconds of increase in development time in place of small adjustments to the exposure time for convenience, especially after I've got dodging and burning worked out.

As for filters: use the filter you need for the situation you have. A red filter is not appropriate for all situations. I use yellow, orange and green a lot more than my red #25 filter (plus the polarizer).

Selenium toning of negs is a good tool for those negs that need a bit more punch, plus you can intensify locally if you need. However, it should be down on the list of things you try - kind of as a last resort.

Tailoring your negative development to the contrast range of the paper is classic Zone System and should be your first choice for dealing with contrast. Keep in mind, though, that reducing development for a high-contrast scene to fit the entire range onto the paper isn't always the best solution. It kills mid-tone and local contrast. Often, I'll just plan on doing dodging and burning in order to keep contrast in the lower values where I want them.

I've used reciprocity failure to increase contrast on negatives quite a bit. I like the look, which is different than increasing development or using a higher contrast-grade paper. However, it's not all that predictable either...

For intermediate contrasts on graded papers, the standard tool was to use a soft-working developer, like Selectol Soft or Ansco 120 in conjunction with a harder-working developer like Dektol, etc. Using the low-contrast developer alone can get up to one grade of contrast difference. Splitting the time between the different developers (start with the softer one) gets you intermediate grades.

Flashing your paper is a good tool for certain situations, especially when you have important shadow detail and then a highly-lit part (think dark interior with a sunlit scene out the window). Flashing can bring in the high values really well, but reduces contrast in them as well.

Dodging and burning are great tools as well as bleaching. I use all three regularly.

Sounds like you are on the way to improving your darkroom skills tremendously.

Have fun,

Doremus

[LabRat]

PQ has arrived.

For "contrast control" with graded paper I intend to use following tools :
- use of red filter when exposing negative, when appropriate
- use of reciprocity of film
- Selenium toning negative
- Negative development (N, N-1, N+1,.... compensating development)
- Dilution of paper developer (PQ at 1+4 for higher contrast)
- Flash highlight areas of paper (tame extreme highlights)
- burning, dodging

Does that seem about right ?
Thanks

Really, most of these are "solutions looking for problems" as the natural look of a good normal negative, and print has much beauty when you get everything in order, so find one of the standard negative and print tests first, and learn to expose properly...

You will find this will work very well for over 90% of the things you shoot, and will improve in practice...

There are some many techniques, materials, gear etc that might get in the way of your image making, so don't get lost before you start...

Happy shooting!!!

Steve K

[Henk]

Thank you all for the good info and advice !