Large Format B&W Film Characteristics?

[LFLarry]

Hi, is there a resource online anywhere that has information on the characteristics of the current large format B&W sheet films?

I know that some of the characteristics may be subjective based on the person describing. It doesn't appear to me that the manufacturers really do much in the way of describing the visual characteristics of their films, unless I am missing something. I know they have charts/curves in the data sheets, but that seems to be about as close as I could get.

I want to do some basic research on the current films as a starting place just to get an idea of what to expect and then buy a box of each and do my own exploring.


Thank You!

[Jim Noel]

Knowing how to read characteristic curves and other data provided by manufacturers will help you know the visual characteristics. Of course they usually only give these as related to one developer. If you use a different developer these will likely change.

[Ted R]

The selection of film for a specific job requires knowledge and understanding of how the film responds to exposure variables and processing variables. I will leave to those having experience with current film types to give advice on selection for specific conditions. All the common large format films have been designed for pictorial representation and give similar results.
The amount of information published by manufacturers varies. Probably the fundamental characteristic is the curve for exposure versus density, which is sometimes given for a single condition and sometimes there are curve families for various development conditions, variations of contrast with time, agitation, developer formula etc. To the best of my knowledge the only other visual qualities that are quantified in published data are granularity (grain) which also varies with exposure and development conditions, and data is also published for spectral sensitivity. Regarding the theory my advice is to begin study of exposure+film+developer combinations starting with the words "toe" "shoulder" "Dmax" "straight line" "exposure latitude" and "contrast". One of the reference sources that may be helpful is text books, the book "Exposure Manual" by Dunn and Wakefield might be one.

[Drew Wiley]

Ideally, large format film needs to be relatively stiff sheet film that won't easily sag in a holder. Some people use thinner lith film for sake of economy, but it's not an ideal practice. Otherwise, there's quite a selection to choose from. One shoe does not fit all. Characteristic curves can vary somewhat by developer choice, strength, degree of development, long exposure characteristics, and even color of filter if it is deep enough. But in other ways, you can study their published characteristic curves, and if you learn how to actually interpret these graphs, understand why some films respond to scene contrast and range much differently than others. But even doing that correctly requires a degree of hands-on experience first. There are obviously also differences in film speed and grain. But I sure don't recommend buying a "box of each" unless you are rich and have a lot of time on your hands. You'd equally need a "bottle of each" kind of developer, and a box of each kind of paper. It's more effective, when first starting out, to take your best guess, ideally based upon the advice of experienced people like on this forum, and then learn the potential of that one specific film before opening an entire casket of confusing options. A lot depends on your intended subject matter and how you intend to print it. I'd start with a versatile forgiving sheet film like
FP4, unless you know you need something faster. But there are a variety of excellent choices out there. Don't overthink it.
Get to first base first.

[Jac@stafford.net]

It helps to know the spectral (color) sensitivity of B&W film.

[LFLarry]

Hi Jim, that is a good point. I don't believe I feel confident in my ability to do that. Is there a good resource to learn how to do that correctly?



Knowing how to read characteristic curves and other data provided by manufacturers will help you know the visual characteristics. Of course they usually only give these as related to one developer. If you use a different developer these will likely change.

[LFLarry]

Hi Ted, that is very helpful and insightful. I appreciate the advice.



The selection of film for a specific job requires knowledge and understanding of how the film responds to exposure variables and processing variables. I will leave to those having experience with current film types to give advice on selection for specific conditions. All the common large format films have been designed for pictorial representation and give similar results.
The amount of information published by manufacturers varies. Probably the fundamental characteristic is the curve for exposure versus density, which is sometimes given for a single condition and sometimes there are curve families for various development conditions, variations of contrast with time, agitation, developer formula etc. To the best of my knowledge the only other visual qualities that are quantified in published data are granularity (grain) which also varies with exposure and development conditions, and data is also published for spectral sensitivity. Regarding the theory my advice is to begin study of exposure+film+developer combinations starting with the words "toe" "shoulder" "Dmax" "straight line" "exposure latitude" and "contrast". One of the reference sources that may be helpful is text books, the book "Exposure Manual" by Dunn and Wakefield might be one.

[LFLarry]

Thanks Drew. My goal is pretty simple actually. I wanted to try and understand what to expect from current b/w films and then experience each of the films with a single developer, which would be D-76 in my case. There really aren't that many films available any more, so it really isn't that long of a list. I was thinking about trying the mainstream films like FP4+ HP5+, Delta 100, T-Max 100, T-Max 400, Tri-X. One box of each of those films isn't going to break the bank.

I am of course only interested in all this for my style of photography which is landscapes. I am retired and have the ability to travel and spend as much time as I want at a location for a couple of exposures. I've always wanted to understand the differences of the films and how it impacts my prints, so now is my time to dig in and just explore and enjoy it. The goal is to then settle on one film with D-76 and call it a day. Thanks again for your advice.



Ideally, large format film needs to be relatively stiff sheet film that won't easily sag in a holder. Some people use thinner lith film for sake of economy, but it's not an ideal practice. Otherwise, there's quite a selection to choose from. One shoe does not fit all. Characteristic curves can vary somewhat by developer choice, strength, degree of development, long exposure characteristics, and even color of filter if it is deep enough. But in other ways, you can study their published characteristic curves, and if you learn how to actually interpret these graphs, understand why some films respond to scene contrast and range much differently than others. But even doing that correctly requires a degree of hands-on experience first. There are obviously also differences in film speed and grain. But I sure don't recommend buying a "box of each" unless you are rich and have a lot of time on your hands. You'd equally need a "bottle of each" kind of developer, and a box of each kind of paper. It's more effective, when first starting out, to take your best guess, ideally based upon the advice of experienced people like on this forum, and then learn the potential of that one specific film before opening an entire casket of confusing options. A lot depends on your intended subject matter and how you intend to print it. I'd start with a versatile forgiving sheet film like
FP4, unless you know you need something faster. But there are a variety of excellent choices out there. Don't overthink it.
Get to first base first.

[Drew Wiley]

Well, those are some of the most popular choices of sheet film, widely available, yet with distinct differences. I don't know your format. HP5 and Tri-X will come out grainy on 4X5 with D76 on moderate enlargements, less so with 8x10 film. You might or might not like the look. The others are finer grained. The two T-Max options will handle a greater range of contrast, especially in terms of crisp shadow separation, than the Ilford choices, but are a bit fussier in terms of correct exposure. D76 has its own idiosyncrasy, because you either have to standardize upon using it freshly mixed, or let it reach equilibrium in sealed bottles for about a week until it expires, or you'll get inconsistent results. These different films also have different filter factors. They are all panchromatic, but slightly differ in green and blue sensitivity, enough to warrant testing first with your chosen filters on affordable roll film, which will give comparable results. Again, don't overthink filters. A few, like a basic yellow, green, and red or deep orange, will go a long ways. Take it a step at a time and have fun !

[Jac@stafford.net]

I was thinking about trying the mainstream films like FP4+ HP5+, Delta 100, T-Max 100, T-Max 400, Tri-X

Stick to Tri-X.

[Jac@stafford.net]

D76 has its own idiosyncrasy, because you either have to standardize upon using it freshly mixed, or let it reach equilibrium in sealed bottles for about a week until it expires,

I don't know what Wiley means by expired, but my experience has shown that it is best to let D-76 sit for 24 hours after making it, otherwise it is unpredictably over active.

[Drew Wiley]

Stick to Tri-X ? Are you Amish, Jac ? As per 76, it stabilizes onto a plateau of activity for several months if the undiluted developer is kepty in full tight glass bottles. I'd divvy it up into little 8 oz bottles, then dilute these 1:1 just before use. I don't
care whether the stabilization takes 24 or 48 hours, or whatever. I'd play it safe and wait a week. I once used it as a cheap mask developer, and it had to be VERY predictable in those instances, densitometer checked. Formulary sells a stabilized
version of 76 which doesn't have this issue. But I rarely use 76 anymore, and have switched to a low-contrast personal tweak of HC110 for mask development. For general photography, I mostly use pyro. And when I want to replicate the look of Tri-X,
some birdshot in a 410 shotgun, aimed at any of the other sheet films, does a nice job.

[ic-racer]

It doesn't appear to me that the manufacturers really do much in the way of describing the visual characteristics of their films, unless I am missing something.

Unless you are doing reversal processing, the films produce a negative. Not many people are interested in the visual characteristics of that; it is just an intermediate.

Personally I use any name-brand fresh film. I can't say that I see much difference between then when they are each exposed and processed to give the same results.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Stick to Tri-X ? Are you Amish, Jac ?

Yah, sure. I'm an Amish underground agent communicating to the Internet through our electrified barbed wire fence.

[angusparker]

From my bunker in Lancaster, PA I can say that you should consider two film stocks to concentrate on in the long term to improve your craft ..... a fine grain low speed option asa 100 and a medium grain higher speed option say asa 400 or so. When shooting landscape the higher speed can be very important. Since offerings continue to decline I’d go with Ilford which I hope is with us for the next 10 years at least and the price isn’t terrible.


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[Drew Wiley]

Those occasional cases I do shoot Tri-X, it's in roll film, so the greater degree of enlargement will accentuate the peppery grain. It's a slightly different emulsion and speed than Tri-X sheet film; but in large format work, I don't generally like conspicuous grain, at least in my own images. But don't snicker about my comment. I've recently seen an oid Amish couple in traditional dress with the husband wearing a thousand buck Apple Smartwatch, and the wife wearing neon-glow name-brand sneakers. The rules differ group to group. Some forbid electric power tools, but allow diesel compressors running air tools,
ironically to build buggies.

[LFLarry]

Good info Drew, thank you. I am using 4x5 format, so the cost is very reasonable.



Well, those are some of the most popular choices of sheet film, widely available, yet with distinct differences. I don't know your format. HP5 and Tri-X will come out grainy on 4X5 with D76 on moderate enlargements, less so with 8x10 film. You might or might not like the look. The others are finer grained. The two T-Max options will handle a greater range of contrast, especially in terms of crisp shadow separation, than the Ilford choices, but are a bit fussier in terms of correct exposure. D76 has its own idiosyncrasy, because you either have to standardize upon using it freshly mixed, or let it reach equilibrium in sealed bottles for about a week until it expires, or you'll get inconsistent results. These different films also have different filter factors. They are all panchromatic, but slightly differ in green and blue sensitivity, enough to warrant testing first with your chosen filters on affordable roll film, which will give comparable results. Again, don't overthink filters. A few, like a basic yellow, green, and red or deep orange, will go a long ways. Take it a step at a time and have fun !

[angusparker]

Good info Drew, thank you. I am using 4x5 format, so the cost is very reasonable.

As for filters, I would ditch the red since the contrast usually is too much. You will end up using yellow and medium orange the most. I use a green filter much more than red especially when there is a lot of foliage around.


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[Drew Wiley]

I happen to use a 25 Red more than any other filter, even at high altitude, and never have an issue with blanked-out shadows, because I carefully spot meter shadow values. My second most used filter is a 22 deep orange. I seldom use a medium orange. Another favorite is an X1 med true green. With just these three, I can handle almost any b&w scenario. But I do own quite a variety of other filters for portraiture, archtecture, hand-held small camera shooting, and of course, color film.

[Jim Noel]

Interesting point about filters. My dear friend and mentor said "If you are going to filter, filter. Don't mess around, use a 25A Red." I follow his advice with everything except X-Ray and other ortho films.