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View Full Version : Looking for a film that can be shot at low asa ( 1 or 2 )



1erCru
13-Oct-2018, 14:58
Iím still a novice shooting LF and recently drew a liking to an artist who shoots still life
Who supposedly shoots 5-6 minute studio exposures at ISO 1-2.

What kind of film can handle this? Iíve been liking the look of some longer exposures Iíve taken
( reciprocity became a factor ).

Can I just play around with something like TMAX 100 at such low asa?

Vaughn
13-Oct-2018, 15:11
I suggest using TMax100 or a 125 ASA film (at their ASA) and use the amount of light and f/stop to control your exposure time. my exposure times for my redwood work with FP4+ (Ilford) can be 30 minutes at f64 or f90.

PS. "Using the amount of light" -- reduce wattage, move lights farther away from subject, etc

LabRat
13-Oct-2018, 15:32
Paper negs about in that ISO range...

Steve K

Denny
13-Oct-2018, 15:51
I would use neutral density filters.

Greg
13-Oct-2018, 16:17
LEE Filter: 100 x 100mm Big Stopper 3.0 (10 stop) Neutral Density Filter
Runs around $130.00. Quality is excellent. When I got the filter, I shot two 4x5 negatives, one without the filter and the other one with the filter in front of the lens. Enlarged both negatives to 8x10s using a glass negative carrier, and you couldn't tell the difference. Since I contact print my LF and ULF negatives, have no qualms about using the filter. Now if I were making 20x24 enlargements, would certainly determine if the image was degraded by the filter.

Two23
13-Oct-2018, 16:48
The only thing I know of are the Lane dry plates. They are ISO 1. I shoot these a lot.


Kent in SD

Nodda Duma
13-Oct-2018, 17:04
The only thing I know of are the Lane dry plates. They are ISO 1. I shoot these a lot.


Kent in SD

Kent's been doing some fine work... he's actually shooting my plates more than I am (not hard to do with my schedule as of late).

Batch 20 plates and newer are running ISO 2, ever since I tweaked the recipe to bring the speed up. I just made a new batch (#24) and need to test to see where they're at, but I expect them to be ISO/ASA 2 as well.

Cheers,
Jason

1erCru
13-Oct-2018, 19:19
I’m pretty sure the artist used dry plates. Well this is all new to me.

Does a dry plate fit into a standard 4x5 holder?

How does one develope a dry plate?

jnantz
13-Oct-2018, 20:11
get a welder's goggles and shoot through them..
they will cut your light down considerably ...

i've exposed tmx at around 1 before, it can be done LOL
were you planning to print these ? scan them? enlarge them?
if you contact print them use a mild developer like caffenol
and if they are really dense make contact prints. when i was hooked
on doing this it took like 300 watts ( like you would use for lodima/azo paper ) and
RC paper... developed normally .. came out nice..

Two23
13-Oct-2018, 20:25
I’m pretty sure the artist used dry plates. Well this is all new to me.

Does a dry plate fit into a standard 4x5 holder?

How does one develope a dry plate?


No, you need a plate holder. You can scrounge ebay for an older one (they seem to be scarce lately) or buy a new one from Chamonix. I've been sending mine to Blue Moon in Portland, but do intend to begin doing my own at some point as it's getting expensive. Looks like tray develop using a red safe light is the best way, but hopefully someone can give you specifics. I'd like to see someone do a how-to video from start to finish and post it somewhere.

I'll mention that I've restored a c.1925 5x7 field camera, and there are plenty of plate holders around for that. I intend to shoot a couple more tomorrow.


Kent in SD

Nodda Duma
14-Oct-2018, 06:41
No, you need a plate holder. You can scrounge ebay for an older one (they seem to be scarce lately) or buy a new one from Chamonix. I've been sending mine to Blue Moon in Portland, but do intend to begin doing my own at some point as it's getting expensive. Looks like tray develop using a red safe light is the best way, but hopefully someone can give you specifics. I'd like to see someone do a how-to video from start to finish and post it somewhere.

I'll mention that I've restored a c.1925 5x7 field camera, and there are plenty of plate holders around for that. I intend to shoot a couple more tomorrow.


Kent in SD


Kent,

If you're starting to think seriously about developing at home, you should check out Stearman Press' SP-445 developing tank. The SP-445 is a great product for developing 4x5 sheet film at your kitchen sink (or wherever you would develop a roll of 35mm film). Early on, I reached out to him about making plate holders so that my plates could be developed in his tank, and he was more than happy to oblige. He's been selling them for a few months now.

I recommend it for use with my plates and in fact I use it exclusively now for developing my 4x5, 9x12, and 1/4 plate sized plates. It's a bit of a pricey initial investment (about $150 for the tank and plate holders) but if you shoot 4x5 a lot then you can guess it will pay for itself pretty quick...both in savings having to ship plates out as well as the fact it only uses 16oz of developer.

-Jason

Two23
14-Oct-2018, 07:37
Kent,

If you're starting to think seriously about developing at home, you should check out Stearman Press' SP-445 developing tank. The SP-445 is a great product for developing 4x5 sheet film at your kitchen sink (or wherever you would develop a roll of 35mm film). Early on, I reached out to him about making plate holders so that my plates could be developed in his tank, and he was more than happy to oblige. He's been selling them for a few months now.

I recommend it for use with my plates and in fact I use it exclusively now for developing my 4x5, 9x12, and 1/4 plate sized plates. It's a bit of a pricey initial investment (about $150 for the tank and plate holders) but if you shoot 4x5 a lot then you can guess it will pay for itself pretty quick...both in savings having to ship plates out as well as the fact it only uses 16oz of developer.

-Jason


I've been thinking about it, but the counters are that I keep hearing how fragile the emulsion is and am concerned the tank would damage them. Second thing is using a tray I can watch development and stop it when it's where it looks good using safe light? I have zero experience developing anything. What are the pros & cons of the tank vs. tray? I shoot more plates than sheet film now, and have just added 5x7 plates & sheets to the mix.


Kent in SD

Luis-F-S
14-Oct-2018, 09:55
ND filters, lots and lots of ND filters.

Doremus Scudder
14-Oct-2018, 10:41
I seriously doubt that the film speed (or plate speed) has a lot to do with this artist's results. Maybe the OP could name him and post a link so we could see some of his/her work? Then we could offer more informed advice.

Unless there's a lot of subject movement that is being used to make time-exposure blur, I don't even see the need for long exposures for still lifes. Shooting long exposures (and I do my fair share of them) is usually simply needed for the level of illumination present, not an indispensable part of the creative process. I've done still lifes set up on a tabletop with natural light from a distant window that took most of the day... And that with fast film (ISO 320-400).

Sure, dry plates have a unique spectral response and reciprocity characteristics that may lend themselves to a particular rendering that the artist likes. A lot of that can be done with panchromatic film and the appropriate filtration (including ND filters to push the film into reciprocity failure if that's the look the OP is after). I see no reason why the OP can't just shoot whatever film he has at hand and filter accordingly for starters.

ISO 2, per se, doesn't make a really different final result. The character of dry plates may, and if that's what the OP finds he is looking for, then he'll have to deal with ISO 2... :)

Best,

Doremus

Two23
14-Oct-2018, 12:09
ISO 2, per se, doesn't make a really different final result. The character of dry plates may, and if that's what the OP finds he is looking for, then he'll have to deal with ISO 2... :)




I agree. I'm after the glass plate look, speed is irrelevant.


Kent in SD

Jim Noel
14-Oct-2018, 12:49
What exactly do you mean by "glass plate look"?
I have seen, and made, images from glass plates which are soft, and more which are tack sharp. A contributing factor which you don't seem to be considering is whether the emulsion is orthochromatic, or panchromatic. Ortho was more prevalent during the time glass plates were most used, but there were panchromatic plates, particularly the last few years of plate popularity. I have experience with both and just like with film, I choose the emulsion most appropriate to the image.

Nodda Duma
14-Oct-2018, 12:56
I've been thinking about it, but the counters are that I keep hearing how fragile the emulsion is and am concerned the tank would damage them. Second thing is using a tray I can watch development and stop it when it's where it looks good using safe light? I have zero experience developing anything. What are the pros & cons of the tank vs. tray? I shoot more plates than sheet film now, and have just added 5x7 plates & sheets to the mix.


Kent in SD


I can only speak from my own experience. I’ve been developing all my 4x5 plates in the tank since February. That was somewhere around batch 5 or 6. I also started adding hardener to the emulsion with batch 20 so while it’s more fragile than film, it’s much better than the first batches (which I never had a problem working with anyhow).....to the point where if I have to strip the emulsion off it’s a real pain in the butt. Regardless, the plates are easy to get in and out of the tank without touching the emulsion. Again that’s just my experience. I’d say get familiar with using it by developing some film first, then try it with plates.

5x7 you’re still SOL, though. :)

-Jason

Two23
14-Oct-2018, 13:03
What exactly do you mean by "glass plate look"?
I have seen, and made, images from glass plates which are soft, and more which are tack sharp. A contributing factor which you don't seem to be considering is whether the emulsion is orthochromatic, or panchromatic. Ortho was more prevalent during the time glass plates were most used, but there were panchromatic plates, particularly the last few years of plate popularity. I have experience with both and just like with film, I choose the emulsion most appropriate to the image.


Specifically what I mean is the sensitivity to blue & UV light. There are also more "articfacts/inclusions" (imperfections) than what I see with film. I only shoot the plates with lenses made ~1855 or ~1915, which adds to the vintage look. I probably wouldn't be interested in panchromatic plates as that would be too modern for my taste.


Kent in SD

Two23
14-Oct-2018, 13:11
5x7 you’re still SOL, though. :)




At this point I'll take a guess and say I'm shooting 40% 4x5 sheets (FP4, some HP5,) 30% 4x5 plates, 25% 5x7 plates, & 5% 5x7 sheets. I just now have my spiffy Gundlach Korona 5x7 up and running with a couple of nice ~8 in. Voigtlander Petzvals (1847, 1865) and a really cool Edward Woods pillbox (c.1854). I had those out today and shot some more plates. I'm thinking of heading back out with just the little Chamonix 4x5 and some plates, and a couple of Petzvals (1.45 & 1858.) It's dark & dreary and the big waterfall is running nicely.

I'll post some recent shots maybe today, maybe in a day or two. "The Threshers."


Kent in SD

6x6TLL
14-Oct-2018, 18:30
LEE Filter: 100 x 100mm Big Stopper 3.0 (10 stop) Neutral Density Filter
Runs around $130.00. Quality is excellent. When I got the filter, I shot two 4x5 negatives, one without the filter and the other one with the filter in front of the lens. Enlarged both negatives to 8x10s using a glass negative carrier, and you couldn't tell the difference. Since I contact print my LF and ULF negatives, have no qualms about using the filter. Now if I were making 20x24 enlargements, would certainly determine if the image was degraded by the filter.

I recently read an online review/test of many different ND filters, including Lee, Schneider, Tiffen, Cokin and others. What I took away was that many of the more extreme ND filters have a very definite color cast to them, it's not subtle at all. Maybe not as much of an issue for B&W, but definitely try before you buy for color work IMHO.

1erCru
14-Oct-2018, 20:31
Hey guys. Thanks for all the responses. I own an SP445 so I’m excited about being able to develope plates in one.

The artist name is Whitney Lewis Smith http://www.whitneylewissmith.com Pretty sure she uses dry plates as she stated the exposures run around 6 minutes.

I’m super interested in how she got the viscous tortuous effect in her backgrounds. I accidentally achieved this effect developing some tmax 100 last year but haven’t been able to reproduce it.

Two23
14-Oct-2018, 21:33
She is a full time professional teaching alternative processes and coats her own plates. It's hard to say exactly which process she is using, but if I had to guess there are several. Some look like wet plate, some look like a sort of dry plate. I have got results similar to what she has a few times. However, most all of my exposures are 1/2 to 2 seconds. I've never had one run over 2 minutes. That suggests wet plate to me. As was said above, the length of exposure really isn't the thing here. I think I could come close to the results with just the Lane dry plates, but those have significantly fewer imperfections than what Smith is doing. Lens selection is also a part of the equation. I never use lenses no newer than 1925 for glass plates, and most of my lenses were made before the Civil War.

Below photo shot with c.1857 Derogy Petzval on Lane plate.


Kent in SD

1erCru
14-Oct-2018, 22:06
Is achieving that viscous effect simply a result of coating the plate with a specific chemical? Also I’m assuming that the long exposures are simply a result of an asa of 1. Just metered a scene and my light meter only goes down to 3. Got a 4s exposure up to a minute so with reciprocity and lower light and an ASA of 1 a five minute exposure makes sense.

I’m interested in the abstract effect that chemicals from these processes impart.

jnantz
15-Oct-2018, 06:09
Hey guys. Thanks for all the responses. I own an SP445 so I’m excited about being able to develope plates in one.

The artist name is Whitney Lewis Smith http://www.whitneylewissmith.com Pretty sure she uses dry plates as she stated the exposures run around 6 minutes.

I’m super interested in how she got the viscous tortuous effect in her backgrounds. I accidentally achieved this effect developing some tmax 100 last year but haven’t been able to reproduce it.

IDK
the subjects look like they were in open shade and the background was bright
i get that sort of thing all the time without
gigantic exposures like you mention, or dry/wet plates.
while it seems she coats dry plates..
you might not need to deal with glass images ... i am able to get images like that
with film + paper negatives ... its all in the lighting and blocking-up the background
by a few stops... caffenol c and print developer working together can give you the
density and slow developing you need to get that sort of effect. it says in her bio
that she not only uses the glass images, but she sometimes scans them and adjusts them in PS.
using PS makes it easier to adjust the forground levels without screwing up the blown out background.



( have fun + ) good luck !

( added later ) http://www.ultrafineonline.com/ulcotodufi.html
is extremely slow like BELOW iso 1.
i've never exposed it in camera ( only under a bright light ) it might be something ...
.. the other emulsion you might think about is on azo paper. super slow, again, below iso 1
usually found online odd sizes, old and cheep. don't forget, with paper negatives a little fog is your friend...
lastly you might also look at this>> http://thelightfarm.com/Map/DryPlate/Patton/DryPlatePart.htm
super slow very easy to make ( and from what i remember if you are coating it on paper you don't need
to wash it. ) don't let the emulsions with the descriptor "dry plate" fool you,
you can coat them on anything, just like liquid light, aj-12
foma, formulite, luminous and the rest of them ...
they are just non-panchromatic s/g emulsions ( paper, plate &c ) in a bottle...

be careful if you make your own .. eyeprotection is a necessity ... and once you start making
emulsion its kind of an addiction.. now you know why nodda duma is coating plates and selling them, he
can't find a 12 step program to get him off the SGE up in his neck of the woods ! ;)

Jody_S
17-Oct-2018, 15:34
This (https://www.kodak.com/se/sv/motion/Products/Lab_And_Post_Production/Archival_Films/KODAK_Panchromatic_Separation_Film_2238/default.htm)will do for 35mm. Some process (imagesetting) sheet or roll films might be close for larger format experimenting.

fuegocito
17-Oct-2018, 19:22
From what you were asking I was going to say duplicating film that has an effective ASA around 8-12 range, depending on age of film and how it was kept, but seeing the result you want to achieve, one thing for certain is that it's not an effect of low speed film and long exposure alone. It looks to be a combination effect between process and lighting technique, plus the final step into copper plate heliogravure as the display medium.

1erCru
18-Oct-2018, 19:02
The copper plate is something new for her. She previously scanned the glass plates and printed them with a pigment printer.

It has to be the coating / process.

fuegocito
19-Oct-2018, 10:35
The latest work has some sort of weird lighting or solarization going on, or manual manipulation on the copper plate itself...but interesting take on a classic theme.


The copper plate is something new for her. She previously scanned the glass plates and printed them with a pigment printer.

It has to be the coating / process.

jnantz
19-Oct-2018, 12:26
What kind of film can handle this? I’ve been liking the look of some longer exposures I’ve taken
( reciprocity became a factor ).

Can I just play around with something like TMAX 100 at such low asa?

yes any film can handle this, tmax100 included. you want to expose in seconds not fractions of seconds.
and you want a slow working developer like caffenol, it won't give you insane contrast. seeing she is using glass plates
you can do this same thing by coating paper negatives as well. ( there is no difference in the emulsion ) practice
with paper and then graduate to glass. lot less $$ and effort ...
her negatives are super dense and she tweeks them in photoshop. you can practice with a small format camera
if you have ez access to a darkroom. if you have a fast lens shoot wide open. her LF lens wide open gives
her that background. if her exposures are minutes and in a studio she is shooting in dim light but still
has a handful of stops difference between the subject and background. its ez with paper because there are only a few
stops to play with. if you go to my blog you will see lots of images similar to hers.

1erCru
19-Oct-2018, 18:01
Thanks so much for this information. I didn’t know you could coat paper negatives as I’m pretty new to large format.

What type of substances can you use to coat paper or glass negatives? I’d be happy to start experimenting but wouldn’t even know which substances to even use.

jnantz
19-Oct-2018, 18:21
rockland colloid makes liquid light
FOMA makes a liquid emulsion
and there are a few other suppliers

you can also make it but that takes effort.
go to thelightfarm.com there is a lot of stuff and denise's book >> http://www.blurb.com/b/6465389-the-light-farm
http://www.alternativephotography.com/category/gallery-by-process/liquid-emulsion-photographers/
if you can find this book it is worth the asking price no matter what it is
https://www.amazon.com/Silver-Gelatin-Liquid-Photographic-Emulsions/dp/1902538153

where are you located, in the states?

good luck !
john

1erCru
20-Oct-2018, 22:36
I’m in Southern California. Mission Viejo to be exact. Was looking for teachers as well in the LA extended area.

jnantz
21-Oct-2018, 11:14
you might go to freestyle photo in LA.
they have 2KG of foma liquid emulsion for cheeps...
the websites &c i posted the links to and the explainy post i made
should help. as mentioned, you really don't need a sophisticated camera
or technique. no need for liquid emulsion until you figure out your
way of working, photo paper off ebay is your friend.
light meter at iso.asa 6 should start you off OK