Troubleshooting devopment

[Steven Ruttenberg]

I have gotten this streak on several images with tmax developer and got it faintly with 2 bath pyrocat. The difference is photoflo in developer A of pyrocat Both times prewashed for 3 minutes, well soaked at development temp. Would photoflo work in tmax? Or better yet if presoak not required would this fix problem? It is always on this side of frame too. I use SP445 to develop. I am thing it might be the 445 that is issue and nit the presoak.

[chuck461]

If the problem has shown up in the same corner I'd suspect a hair or other debris inside the camera.
Chuck

[Steven Ruttenberg]

But it isn't a hair, this goes on to the other side of the frame, I didn't photograph and then ends in what looks like a water spill. I have a lot of images that have this, with different lenses, different scenes,etc.

[Ken Lee]

To rule out the influence of the camera, you can try a negative that hasn't been exposed in a camera or loaded into a film holder, but merely flashed briefly with dim light.

You can also remove the influence of the developing tank: develop a negative alone in a tray.

[Jim Noel]

Do as Ken has advised. Be sure to agitate moderately and regularly

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Okay, I can do a tray test. I checked out camera and it is clean. I'll have to overtake my closet, but can be done.

[Ken Lee]

If the streak appears on the tray-developed negative, you may have a spoiled or scratched batch of film - or you're scratching them during handling, loading, etc. If not, you've ruled out those factors.

To that point, it's helpful to clean your fingers with rubbing alcohol (and allow them to dry) just before handling sheet film. That way you can't accidentally mark them with natural oils that would inhibit the contact of all chemicals with your film. If you've mixed any chemicals prior to handling the film, alcohol will help remove them. I arrived at this method after getting finger-prints in my negatives which appeared white in the final print: hard to remove even with Photoshop.

The next step would be to expose 4 sheets (or however many your tank can accommodate) to dim light and develop them all in your tank simultaneously. If the streak appears on one or more negatives, there's something in one or more of the slots in the tank (or the way you're loading them) which is limiting developer contact with the film.

To identify each sheet, you can cut from 1 to 4 notches into each sheet: be sure to record which sheet went into which slot of the tank.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

If the streak appears on the tray-developed negative, you may have a spoiled or scratched batch of film - or you're scratching them during handling, loading, etc. If not, you've ruled out those factors.

To that point, it's helpful to clean your fingers with rubbing alcohol (and allow them to dry) just before handling sheet film. That way you can't accidentally mark them with natural oils that would inhibit the contact of all chemicals with your film. If you've mixed any chemicals prior to handling the film, alcohol will help remove them. I arrived at this method after getting finger-prints in my negatives which appeared white in the final print: hard to remove even with Photoshop.

The next step would be to expose 4 sheets (or however many your tank can accommodate) to dim light and develop them all in your tank simultaneously. If the streak appears on one or more negatives, there's something in one or more of the slots in the tank (or the way you're loading them) which is limiting developer contact with the film.

To identify each sheet, you can cut from 1 to 4 notches into each sheet: be sure to record which sheet went into which slot of the tank.

Okay, I can do that, shouldn't be too hard, I can just shoot the wall in my office/studio and develop as usual. I might do like 12 sheets, 2 tray with pre-soak, 2 without, 4 with pre-soak and 4 without (4 for the sp-445 tank) I am using Tmax developer.

[Ken Lee]

I recommend no shooting, no camera, no lens. Just expose the film to light for a brief moment. Best to keep the camera, lens, exposure and film holders out of the equation altogether.

You will find it helpful to reduce the number of variables.

This isn't generally uneven development, this is a specific shape. My guess is that it's either your film, how you handle the film, or something about the tank or how you use it which is limiting contact between the film and the chemicals along a curved line.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

No shooting. No camera, no lens. Just expose the film to light for a flash. :o

oh, okay. Basically, just put in a film holder, insert in camera, no lens, open a shutter or lift a cover real quick then develop?.

I also have a thought I am going to try as well. I am going to develop the first 4 like I typically do in the sp-445. The dry it and do the next 4. I am starting to suspect that some how, I am not getting the sp-445 completely dry and then water drips down on the second batch, so I will compare first batch to second batch.

Could it be air bubbles in the mixture from not rotating the sp-445 properly? I rotate slowly in 1 direction for half the initial agitation period, then rotate 90 degrees for second half. I then, rotate as scheduled rotating sp-445 90 degrees for next rotation.

Should I rinse between developer and stop bath and fixer and hypoclear Massive Dev app does not indicate to do so when I use it? Would photoflo help to be added to developer? Just throwing out things. Going to start with what you have suggested to eliminate the obvious things (that may also be the culpret)

[Ken Lee]

oh, okay. Basically, just put in a film holder, insert in camera, no lens, open a shutter or lift a cover real quick then develop?.

I also have a thought I am going to try as well. I am going to develop the first 4 like I typically do in the sp-445. The dry it and do the next 4. I am starting to suspect that some how, I am not getting the sp-445 completely dry and then water drips down on the second batch, so I will compare first batch to second batch.

Could it be air bubbles in the mixture from not rotating the sp-445 properly? I rotate slowly in 1 direction for half the initial agitation period, then rotate 90 degrees for second half. I then, rotate as scheduled rotating sp-445 90 degrees for next rotation.

Should I rinse between developer and stop bath and fixer and hypoclear Massive Dev app does not indicate to do so when I use it? Would photoflo help to be added to developer? Just throwing out things. Going to start with what you have suggested to eliminate the obvious things (that may also be the culpret)

You might find it helpful to figure out at what step the problem is introduced.

First just eliminate all steps related to image capture, IE everything before development. No camera, no lens, no film holders. Just the film.

Also, eliminate the tank. Don't use the tank at first: see if the problem lies with the film itself, or how you handle the film. If the problem still appears with tray development, you know it's not the tank, it's the film or your handling of the film.

If the problem disappears with tray development, you know the problem appears later in the process: how you put the film into the tank, the tank itself, etc.

Best of luck :o

[Steven Ruttenberg]

You might find it helpful to figure out at what step the problem is introduced.

First just eliminate all steps related to image capture, IE everything before development. No camera, no lens, no film holders. Just the film.

Also, eliminate the tank. Don't use the tank at first: see if the problem lies with the film itself, or how you handle the film. If the problem still appears with tray development, you know it's not the tank, it's the film or your handling of the film.

If the problem disappears with tray development, you know the problem appears later in the process: how you put the film into the tank, the tank itself, etc.

Best of luck :o

Roger that!

[ic-racer]

I presume the posted image is a print? If so, it has evidence of dust on the negative or the glass carrier. Try cleaning those items with compressed air or a brush and see if it improves the situation. With the negative in the glass holder, hold it nearly parallel to rays of light from a lamp, and any residual dust will show. If you are printing with a condenser enlarger and glass carrier, sometimes getting good at print spotting is the only solution ;) and you may need a different setup.

[chassis]

How is the film oriented in the developing tank? Sometimes developer pouring onto the film can create similar looking defects. Depends on how the developer impinged the film during pouring, speed of pouring and concentration of the developer.

[Fred L]

that photo looks cropped. can u show entire sheet ?

also, Photo Flo in developer ? I've never done that and thought most avoided that, as it introduces long lasting bubbles into the equation.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

that photo looks cropped. can u show entire sheet ?

also, Photo Flo in developer ? I've never done that and thought most avoided that, as it introduces long lasting bubbles into the equation.

It is used in the 2-bath pyrocat in developer A.

I am using the sp-445, so I would assume that pouring shouldn't be an issue, but could be wrong. Something I will check out.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

How is the film oriented in the developing tank? Sometimes developer pouring onto the film can create similar looking defects. Depends on how the developer impinged the film during pouring, speed of pouring and concentration of the developer.


Film is emulsion side out inserted in the sp-445, then into the tank.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

I presume the posted image is a print? If so, it has evidence of dust on the negative or the glass carrier. Try cleaning those items with compressed air or a brush and see if it improves the situation. With the negative in the glass holder, hold it nearly parallel to rays of light from a lamp, and any residual dust will show. If you are printing with a condenser enlarger and glass carrier, sometimes getting good at print spotting is the only solution ;) and you may need a different setup.

The image is of negative. Just out on light board and snapped with iPhone. So didn't clean it at all if dirt and dust.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Here is an iphone shot of affected frame. See white line on left and line on upper right. Looks like a waterline or something.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

This second frame of same scene. Developed at same time on same holder emulsion side out. They were back to back one on each side of holder. there is a line at top middle to right.

[Cor]

Hi steve,

I admit not folowing all your post in detail, but did you try as a start to go the "regular" way, ie expose your Tmax 100 (if that is the film you use) at say 80 ASA, develop in XTtol 1:1 and take it from there (or any other established and proven combination), and that go to more demanding routines ?

Good luck,

Cor

[Steven Ruttenberg]

This was not demanding, straight forward development in Tmax developer, stop bath, fixxer, hypoclear, rinse for 10 minutes then photoflo, hang to dry. Have not used xtol developer. I would have used 2-bath pyrocat, but I was short changed 20ml of developer A.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

In talking with the inventor of the sp-445, he believes the streaking is possibly leftover anti-halation layer. If that is case, couldn't film be rinsed again to remove? If pre soaking, would it be better to provide a vigorous agitation during pre soak and, perhaps, to repeat two or three times? Otherwise, no pre soak if not required and provide a vigorous final wash/rinse? This is of course using the sp-445.

Has anyone else had this with different daylight tanks? I wouldn't expect it to be an issue with tray processing.

Will update when I here back from Tim at Stearman.

[Doremus Scudder]

Steven,

The streaking from left-over anti-halation dyes seems to be a problem with the older SP-445 tanks. There are several threads about it either here or over on Photrio (former APUG). If it's just dye that didn't get rinsed off, a simple wash in a tray with some agitation should do the trick. If development were affected by the ribs touching the film, then you may have some development artifacts.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

[Bill Poole]

I have had problems with the SP-445 tank, insert version 2, where the center rib touches the back of the film. Sometimes there is a streak that does not clear well during fixing when fixed in tank, and I have to remove the film from the insert and refix briefly to get it to clear. But I have never seen anything like these streaks. I am interested in the way the one is the first posted image seems to break the edge of the rebate, which suggested to me something in camera, but since we have dismissed this . . . There are wiser and more experienced heads here, but this has been my experience. Hope it helps. Bill

[Steven Ruttenberg]

It could be the ribs, I have version 3 holders. Not camera for sure, I did check that. And it only happens with bw film.