Tripod recommendations?

[6x6TLL]

I have a Gitzo from 1993 that is nice, but a bit heavy and with limited height.

Figured it was about time to find a modern tripod good for the next 25 years.

I'd like something light (e.g. carbon fiber), stable, supported (spare parts if/when needed), rugged (wind, snow, ice, salt water, etc). Load will be a Rollei 6008 MF rig, and probably a LF rig once I get that far (something appropriate for either field cameras, or a monorail that's light enough to take into the field). I'm guessing 10kg or so would probably be a good minimum load rating. As far as height, 150cm (59") minimum. I don't want a center column, just a spider on which to mount a ball head.

I've narrowed it down to either:
Gitzo Systematic line
Novoflex TrioPod/TrioPod PRO75
RSS TFC-24 Mk. 2

and wanted to ask for suggestions and experiences here from other users.

Pros, cons, things you would want different today? Any other brands/models I might want to check out? This is for general purpose.

Thanks!

[Bob Salomon]

Berelbach, Linhof but the Novoflex is one hell of a system. It can take table top legs or either the aluminum or CF legs, comes apart to fit in all types of cases and can support a ton of weight.
Just be aware, it can be bought in pieces so you can get variations with or without a column and with 3 or 4 legs! I used the 4 leg Quadropod.

[6x6TLL]

Hi Bob,

thanks for the quick reply. Berlebach are beautiful, but wooden (heavy, difficult to carry on hikes), Linhof are typically German engineered, but also larger, heavier, and not designed for light weight and long treks.

To be more specific, I've noted many times in my photographic endeavors that I should have had a tripod, but often left the old Gitzo at home because it was too heavy, big and bulky to carry. I often regretted it and was limited in what I could shoot, although I'm sure my back thanked me!

So I'm specifically looking for something lightweight and portable (as in I can put a strap on the top and bottom end, throw it over my shoulder and not have a cow, potentially carrying it around for hours on end).

The Novoflex looks amazing, I agree. Why did you choose the 4 legged Quadropod over the traditional TrioPod models? Would you do the same today?

[Alan Gales]

I'd also look at FLM if you have not already.

http://www.flmcanada.com/contact.html

Ari showed me one and I was impressed. You can contact Ari at FLM Canada if you want additional information. He is the North American distributer. Ari is a great guy and also a member here. I'm a Ries guy myself but a Ries is not something that you would be interested in.



Also, if you are looking for a head, FLM has ball heads with locks so you can control each axis separately. Pretty neat!

[6x6TLL]

Thanks Alan,

I'll contact Ari and ask more about their offerings. The website shows all models have a center column, maybe they make one without.

Ries are beautiful, but something quite different from what I'm looking for as you said.

[Pali K]

I can't say enough good things about my lightweight CF FLM setup that I use with everything including a heavy 360mm f6.8 Symmar-S on Deardorff 8x10. Definitely get in touch with Ari and he'll be able to guide on what will best best for you.

Pali

[6x6TLL]

Will definitely contact Ari at FLM.

Another poster suggested that I get 2 tripods, one lighter and smaller for MF gear and suitable for travel, and a larger/heavier one for LF work.

If that's true, the Novoflex system (TrioPod or PRO spiders) would allow me to simply buy two sets of legs, one lighter for travel/MF, one big and sold for LF.

Does that seem reasonable?

I'll have a look at FML in the meantime.

[joem]

Having purchased a Green Monster recently i've been looking at tripods a bit. Currently have two Bogen/Manfrottos a big one # 3036 if i remember rightly and a smaller one, The big one covered a fair bit of England and Wales with my RB 67. The smaller now looks to be the go to for the RB as it seems more than adaquate.
The 3036 looks like it will support a Mack truck.
Some thoughts.....

Weight ratings are often written by the advertising group.

Carrying a heavy tripod....that's what wifes are for

joe

[neil poulsen]

I can sure recommend Feisol tripods at www.feisol.net. In particular, one of the following:

http://www.feisol.net/tripods/feisol-tripod-ct-3372.html

http://www.feisol.net/tripods/feisol-tripod-ct-3472.html

http://www.feisol.net/tripods/feisol-tripod-ct-3372l.html

The last of these is the long version.

[6x6TLL]

What's a "Green Monster"?


Having purchased a Green Monster recently i've been looking at tripods a bit.

Carrying a heavy tripod....that's what wifes are for

joe

Where do I find a wife to help carry...?

:-p

[6x6TLL]

Thanks Neil,

I've never heard of Feisol. Where are they based? Is it all made in China (like Benbo), or somwhere else? All the ones you linked are 2kg or more, which is about what my existing Gitzo weighs. I was hoping to come down to around 1.5kg if possible, plus ball head (which will have to be another post).

It's always a trade-off between stability (bigger, heavier) and portability (smaller, lighter). If it's too big or heavy, it will end up being left at home, wasted money. If it's too light or flimsy, it won't really help provide a stable platform from which to take pictures.

I'd also like to know if CF tripods do well in water. Seawater especially. I expect the edges are sealed so the fiber doesn't soak up moisture, right?

[jose angel]

I have a CF that is sealed on the bottom leg (it has a glued "spike"), so it can manage salted water or whatever up to the length of this tube. The CF material is built with polyester resin or so. Just rinse it and that's all.
But if the water comes inside the tubes, that's another topic. Enclosed salted water isn't good inside almost everything, I guess. Think that the threads inside are quite soft aluminum, and screws are steel. If so, you'd need to rinse the whole tripod; just take all pieces apart, rinse them and let them dry before mounting. Only you know if the pic is worth the pain... :)
IMHO, a CF Gitzo series 2 do the task as an all round lightweight tripod for 6x6 and press/field 4x5 cameras. A series 3 is definitely the right one, but not as lightweight as the 2 (excuse me, I'm not used to the current Gitzo nomenclature). You have to know how much "lightweight" you want.
BTW, 10kg is a lot of weight. You don't need a tripod that handle a "minimum" of 10kg. If so, you should use the heaviest Gitzos (aluminum series 5 or so). I find quite difficult to know the real weight rating of tripods; it seem to me that manufacturer`s charts are more based in marketing than in reality. Think that usually, the heavier the better tripod.
And, I`d get the right height. Measure your eye position, and look for a tripod+head+camera that reach that eye position. A taller one is wasted height, a smaller one a pain to use.

[andrewch59]

I was recently in much the same predicament, I have a very heavy, sturdy manfrotto, but needed something lighter for backpacking and easy to load on my bike. After much searching I settled on the sirui w-2204 with k-30x ballhead, great setup for my 4x5 shen hao.
Its light, carbon fibre and the bottom sections are waterproof. At 6'6" I am tall but the sirui is tall enough for me, and the ball head folds up with the tripod into a supplied shoulder bag

[Len Middleton]

What's a "Green Monster"?


Where do I find a wife to help carry...?

:-p

Green Monster (in our context) => Calumet C1 8x10 camera was built in two versions, the later black cast aluminium, and the earlier and lighter (but not lightweight) green cast magnesium version aka "Green Monster"

Solid relatively low cost well built 8x10 cameras.

I had one for a while.

I will let someone else help you with your second question...

[Bernice Loui]

Still of the opinion and experience that wood remains one of the very best materials for a outdoor tripod. Second is fiberglass (which is a composite plastic similar in many ways to "Carbon Fiber" which is perceived to be superior to all, but not.).

Wood is light weight for it's strength and what should be seriously consider is the elasticity and dampening abilities of wood. This is one of the reasons why Surveyor's tripods are made of wood-special fiber glass with aluminum being the least prefer choice. Taking any tripod outdoors means it will get wet, dropped, bashed in various ways, dropped, bent, used as a walking-hiking aid and a lot more. If one considers the forces and stress placed on trees outdoors, it is really not that different than the life of an outdoor tripod.

Having been a Gitzo and numerous other metal tripod user for decades, these days mostly given up on them as one dent on the leg or similar moving part can severely affect it's operation.

As for weight, more weight properly placed equals more stability. This is not about weight supporting capacity, good tripods are much about stability and ability to damp unwanted vibrations that can-will affect image quality.


Bernice

[6x6TLL]

Thanks Jose,

yes 10kg is a lot, but seeing how there doesn't seem to be a standard, it seems like a decent ball-parkish figure to use. It sounds like a series 2 or 3 would be ok for my use. I'm still very impressed with the idea of the Novoflex, and it doesn't seem any more pricey than a similar tripod from RRS or GItzo, yet would allow me to swap out legs and have different sets for different uses (e.g. light for travel/carrying, heavier for when I can drive or need a lot of support).

Does anyone here actually use Novoflex, or seen one in use?

Bernice, wood is lovely, it's just too heavy! If I were driving to the location or had a Sherpa with me, I'd definitely consider it. (Maybe that's what Joe was referring to with the "wife" he spoke of? :-p). But wandering around the mountains on my own, or even spending 4-5 hours walking around downtown at night, it has to be something reasonably light and compact enough to carry for extended periods of time.

Andrew, I've seen the Siruis and they look good, until I learned that they are actually cheap Chinese knock-offs. I'd rather support the locals, be it German, American, French/Italian, or Japanese. Yes, they cost more, but I'm paying for original know-how and engineering, rather than someone's lax relationship with IP.

I'm wondering if a ball head is really necessary. Leg adjustments for rough settings, movements for fine tuning? Maybe a simple leveling head with 10-15 degrees of play would be enough? It would be a whole lot lighter...!

I also found this site recently, which does scientific comparisons of a range of tripod's stability and damping: https://thecentercolumn.com/

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks Jose,

yes 10kg is a lot, but seeing how there doesn't seem to be a standard, it seems like a decent ball-parkish figure to use. It sounds like a series 2 or 3 would be ok for my use. I'm still very impressed with the idea of the Novoflex, and it doesn't seem any more pricey than a similar tripod from RRS or GItzo, yet would allow me to swap out legs and have different sets for different uses (e.g. light for travel/carrying, heavier for when I can drive or need a lot of support).

Does anyone here actually use Novoflex, or seen one in use?

Bernice, wood is lovely, it's just too heavy! If I were driving to the location or had a Sherpa with me, I'd definitely consider it. (Maybe that's what Joe was referring to with the "wife" he spoke of? :-p). But wandering around the mountains on my own, or even spending 4-5 hours walking around downtown at night, it has to be something reasonably light and compact enough to carry for extended periods of time.

Andrew, I've seen the Siruis and they look good, until I learned that they are actually cheap Chinese knock-offs. I'd rather support the locals, be it German, American, French/Italian, or Japanese. Yes, they cost more, but I'm paying for original know-how and engineering, rather than someone's lax relationship with IP.

I'm wondering if a ball head is really necessary. Leg adjustments for rough settings, movements for fine tuning? Maybe a simple leveling head with 10-15 degrees of play would be enough? It would be a whole lot lighter...!

I also found this site recently, which does scientific comparisons of a range of tripod's stability and damping: https://thecentercolumn.com/

Yes, I have used both the 3 and 4 leg Novoflex Triopods and Quadropods. They are very strong, carry lots of weight, are exceptionally versatile and damper vibration very quickly in either CF or aluminum.

BTW, probably the best test on tripods was done 4 or 5 years ago in Leica Foto magazine.
They put graph paper on a wall, taped a laser pointer to the tripod legs, tied a weight to a string that was also attached to the leg.
Then let the weight strike the leg and photographed the movement of the projected laser beam onto the graph paper. And timed how long for the beam to stop moving. They published the actual test pictures.

I seriously doubt that an individual like the one that you linked to could convince all of the tripod companies that he tested to send him tripods to test and I doubt that he would buy them all.
Also, he doesn’t seem to include who he is, what his expertise is or his background and how he does these measurements.

There is also an interesting test report on the back page of the Berelbach brochure from a German testing institute with test results on tripods.

I used to have my own test procedure that I did in camera stores. I brought a shot glass with me that I would fill half way with water. I would put this on the top plate of various tripods I was interested in and would lightly tap a leg and see how long it took the water to stop moving.

I also sold tripods to Questar Corp. for their telescopes. These were rather high end scopes.
They had a large concrete pad outside their back door. They also had a very large employee who had to weigh 350 pounds. Their test was to set up tripods with their scopes on them, look through the eyepiece and have the big guy jump up and down while an engineer looked through the scope. The winning tripods that they bought for resale were the ones that had the least vibration and settled the quickest. Linhof won that order.

I have also sold Berelbach tripods to TeleVue for their telescopes, but you didn’t want wooden ones.

[jose angel]

Personally (I know it must be matter of taste), a ball head is not necessary.... but a head really does. Small adjustments without a head are difficult, clumsy and slow at best. I usually need to make small adjustments.
Ball heads are light and capable, although sometimes not the best for fine adjustments. I find panning ability really useful. Three way heads are nice, but usually... unappealing?. To me, the best head for almost everything are the geared ones, most times really worth the weight. But I know lightweight needs put them aside.
At the end I use low height, big diameter ball heads, and also geared ones, depending on the task. Some ball heads are really good, and not so expensive.
BTW, I find somewhat hard to believe all that scientific explanations about dampening and so. I belong to the stone age, so to me the best tripod is a great piece of concrete or granite. For sure I'm an ape.
Cameras, mirrors and all this are not always the same, and I have never seen tests based on real image differences. I know material A is better than B, both have different stiffness, dampening properties etc. but I wonder if it really applies to the real life of a given tripod under a given camera. Weight really does.

[6x6TLL]

Thanks Bob!

Coming from you with your background and experience, it means a lot. Would you buy one today? (feel free to PM me if you don't want to make a public statement)

I'll keep my eyes peeled for any special offers on Gitzo or RRS, but if I have to pay full retail, Novoflex sounds like a really attractive option.

[neil poulsen]

Thanks Neil,

I've never heard of Feisol. Where are they based? Is it all made in China (like Benbo), or somwhere else? All the ones you linked are 2kg or more, which is about what my existing Gitzo weighs. I was hoping to come down to around 1.5kg if possible, plus ball head (which will have to be another post) . . .


Oops! Wrong links, which have been corrected in my post. I have the 3372, which is terrific. Weight is 1.75kg. :)

Among the things I like about this tripod . . .

o Weight, which is just under 4 lbs. My legs weigh less than my tripod head, which is a 3039 Manfrotto.

o Very beefy legs. The upper section has a 38mm diameter.

o Feisol calls the three linked tripods (and a couple of others) their "Elite" tripods. Versus cast metal, their crowns are machined metal. As a result, they're stronger AND lighter.

o Very quick and easy to remove the plate on the crown. I purchased a couple of extra plates, which makes exchanging heads quick and easy.

o I also have a center-post, which was quite reasonably priced. I use the center-post for digital, 6x9's, and my light-weight 4x5. I use a plate (no center-post) for my 8x10, which weighs a little less than a Deardorff. (I could use a Deardorff 8x10 on this tripod; but, I wouldn't go much heavier. For example, I wouldn't use the heavier, black Calumet 8x10 on this tripod.)

It's also possible to get a leveling attachment for the 3374, which is available on the four section version of my tripod. I've had an opportunity to try out a leveler, and I think it's more fuss than it's worth. But if you need a leveler, one would want the 3472. One would also want an attachment for the crown that includes a bubble level.

The "rapid" to which the Feisol site refers is is an embellishment that I don't have. With twist type type tripods like the (older) Feisol's and Gitzo's (etc.), one needs to make sure that an upper leg section is at least as tight as the one beneath. Otherwise, tightening the leg section beneath can loosen the one above. The "rapid" feature resolves this issue. But if you buy older used, don't worry about not having this feature. I almost prefer the older version, because it's a simpler design. It's second nature to properly tighten each leg. Again, the legs are beefy, so they don't need a lot of tightening.

I've sort of assumed that these tripods are Asian, but I'm not sure. You can purchase directly from Feisol (website), or they stock some of the Feisols at B&H. I bought mine from Kerry Thallman, who sold them at one point. (No longer.)

Gitzo's have their place. I have a Giant Studex 5, when I need a lot of elevation. But for everything else, my Feisol is a first rate tripod.

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks Bob!

Coming from you with your background and experience, it means a lot. Would you buy one today? (feel free to PM me if you don't want to make a public statement)

I'll keep my eyes peeled for any special offers on Gitzo or RRS, but if I have to pay full retail, Novoflex sounds like a really attractive option.

Yes, I would. When you look at the things that these pods will do, besides what tripods are traditionally made to do, I wouldn’t hesitate.

[joem]

Green Monster (in our context) => Calumet C1 8x10 camera was built in two versions, the later black cast aluminium, and the earlier and lighter (but not lightweight) green cast magnesium version aka "Green Monster"

Solid relatively low cost well built 8x10 cameras.

I had one for a while.

I will let someone else help you with your second question...

Green C1 s were actually made in both aluminum and magnesium mine is aluminum eighteen lb w/o lens.
Getting a wife is fairly easy keeping her is another story, 47 years and counting...knock on wood. And yes she carried the tripod through much of the UK while i had the RB kit in one hand and her other hand in mine.

[Alan Gales]

Where do I find a wife to help carry...?

:-p


Here you go! There is a surplus of women in Russia. For your purpose if you can find one who is also an Olympic weight lifter it would be a plus. Of course if she is as pretty as the one in the ad picture then you may not mind just carrying your tripod yourself! ;)


https://www.russiancupid.com/en/women

[Bernice Loui]

Alan,

-Do you realize what this says and implies?

*Here is a HINT, or why there are so few women here and much, much, much more...


Bernice



Here you go! There is a surplus of women in Russia. For your purpose if you can find one who is also an Olympic weight lifter it would be a plus. Of course if she is as pretty as the one in the ad picture then you may not mind just carrying your tripod yourself! ;)


https://www.russiancupid.com/en/women

[Alan Gales]

Alan,

-Do you realize what this says and implies?

*Here is a HINT, or why there are so few women here and much, much, much more...


Bernice


Bernice, I'm just stating a commonly known fact. I'm not meaning to offend anyone. There are of course reasons for this.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/08/14/why-the-former-ussr-has-far-fewer-men-than-women/

[Bernice Loui]

Well Alan,

Consider how "facts" are being used, and no I'm not going to simply take these "facts" as posted. As with any written text here, there is intent. Now Alan, what might the intent be.. for sharing this Fact?


Not pleased in any way,
Bernice



Bernice, I'm just stating a commonly known fact. I'm not meaning to offend anyone. There are of course reasons for this.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/08/14/why-the-former-ussr-has-far-fewer-men-than-women/

[Alan Gales]

Well Alan,

Consider how "facts" are being used, and no I'm not going to simply take these "facts" as posted. As with any written text here, there is intent. Now Alan, what might the intent be.. for sharing this Fact?


Not pleased in any way,
Bernice




No ill intent. Just using facts to support what I said. There are many sites where Russian women are looking for American men as suitable husbands due to the lack of men in their own country. Personally, I can't see anything offensive about that. If you are talking about the well documented alcohol problem in Russia, well, we have plenty of well documented alcohol problems here too. On top of that we have our drug problems.

6x6TLL jokingly asked where he could find a wife. I just jokingly answered his question. I have nothing against the Russian people. In fact I used to have a colleague who immigrated here from the then Soviet Union. Yuri once made the comment that there were good people everywhere. Just bad governments. I agree with that.

I apologize if I offended you.

Alan

[Bernice Loui]

Or why Women remain on the brutal end of that stick remains offended. The lack of ability to see-understand what was offensive is at the core of why SO many Women are more than a bit Ticked off at them Dudes and more.

The Apology is sort of OK, but far more important lesson is understanding why that post-text was offensive and demeaning and De-humanizing.

BTW, as a Gal who has spent decades in Tech, this is precisely the kind of Dude HP_S that happens too often.


Bernice.




Personally, I can't see anything offensive about that.


I apologize if I offended you.

Alan

[Alan Gales]

Or why Women remain on the brutal end of that stick remains offended. The lack of ability to see-understand what was offensive is at the core of why SO many Women are more than a bit Ticked off at them Dudes and more.

The Apology is sort of OK, but far more important lesson is understanding why that post-text was offensive and demeaning and De-humanizing.

BTW, as a Gal who has spent decades in Tech, this is precisely the kind of Dude HP_S that happens too often.


Bernice.


I'm sorry, Bernice but you have lost me. What is wrong with Russian women posting on a site that they are looking for a man? Men looking for women do the same thing. We have a dating site here called "Plenty of Fish". My brother found his girlfriend that way and his ex-wife found her boyfriend on the same site. If you have trouble finding someone the old ways then these computer dating sites can help. In fact, my wife's ex husband found his new wife online. She lived in Spain. He ended up moving there and they seem very happy.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Or why Women remain on the brutal end of that stick remains offended. The lack of ability to see-understand what was offensive is at the core of why SO many Women are more than a bit Ticked off at them Dudes and more.

I dearly appreciate the fact that the woman in my life for the past twenty-four years is sensitive to such nonsense and is strong enough to let piggish behavior roll past her. She is 70 years old. I am older and grateful that she has taken such good care of herself that she can schlep my tripod when I cannot. She is really put-together mentally and physically. She is also a better photographer than I.

[joem]

Sorry i started this......no i'n not the chips will fall where they will. But this works in both directions we have a friend whose son moved to Japan to teach english and word has come back that some ladies there are eyeing him for their daughters. When i posted that it was sort of tongue in cheek but we do do most everything together.
joe

[Alan Gales]

Sorry i started this......no i'n not the chips will fall where they will. But this works in both directions we have a friend whose son moved to Japan to teach english and word has come back that some ladies there are eyeing him for their daughters. When i posted that it was sort of tongue in cheek but we do do most everything together.
joe

I showed this to my wife and she didn't find anything offensive here. She did say that we live in sensitive times today. Comedian Jerry Seinfeld said that he will no longer appear at colleges due to all the political correctness and someone always getting offended. Other comedians are doing the same.

https://ew.com/article/2015/06/08/jerry-seinfeld-politically-correct-college-campuses/

[andrewch59]

I was going to go on a rant, but no good would come of it, all I can do is shake my head and think it is so sad the world we live in these days. Better to just think it than say it, there is always someone who wants to jump down your throat. Get more sun, you will grow a thicker skin!!

[John Layton]

...always so interesting seeing how these threads evolve!

Relative to saltwater exposure - as a convert to CF tripods (Gitzo for LF...Feisol for MF/lightweight LF) who also does quite a bit of mucking about in salt water with these - my only concern is that this equipment lasts as long as whatever time I have left (turning 64 this month). When caught out by a large wave recently...with myself and equipment thoroughly soaked - I simply took a swig from my water bottle, emptied the rest onto my equipment (a fresh water bath to help mitigate corrosive effects of salt), and continued shooting.

Cole Weston got caught by large waves on a regular basis (big, California surf mind you)...and would usually keep shooting despite this. When he returned home, he'd take the lens off of his Green Monster and hose everything off, inside and out!

[6x6TLL]

Hi John,

having recently relocated to California, salt water resistance or at least the ability to function is important, as is snow and ice. I will always of course rinse/wash the gear off, but sometimes that may take a few hours to do.

[Leszek Vogt]

Have a Feisol for tall folk (6yrs) and have been using with Nikkor 400/3.5 monstrocity, light 5x7 and everything in between. Prefer a 3-legged sticks (more sturdy). Instead buying lighter for travel, etc etc, I pack and insulate with clothes (in a duffle bag) and always meets me at the end of a journey. Do like the fact that is less than 5lbs and this thing has been through many beaches, sands, various terrains or waters - no issues. I think, if one uses "proper technique" even more humble rig would do.

Les

[joem]

Thank you and your wife Alan.
joe

[joem]

Anyway back to the original topic, does anyone have anything good/bad/experience with my Bogen/Manfrotto 3036 that i'm using with the calumet C1?

[Alan Gales]

Anyway back to the original topic, does anyone have anything good/bad/experience with my Bogen/Manfrotto 3036 that i'm using with the calumet C1?

I've never used one myself. A quick search showed a load limit of 26.5 pounds. A C1 weighs any where from 14 to 18 lbs plus what ever lens shutter combination you have on it. My concern would be extending the center column. Anytime a center column is extended the camera is more prone to vibrations.

As for the other matter, you are most welcome. If you reread the thread you will see I was in the thick of it. As you wisely say, now back to the original topic.

[6x6TLL]

After watching sales and doing some more research, I ended up with a Novoflex Triopod kit (apex, carbon fiber legs, small mini legs for tabletop use) as well as an extra apex (the Triopod PRO75). Extremely well made, very light, can't wait to get the camera set up and take it out to shoot. The two apexes will allow me to use the smaller one for lighter cameras, and the large one (like a Gitzo 5 series) for heavier gear, or when I need to stabilize a long lens.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and advice, it's truly appreciated!

[Bob Salomon]

After watching sales and doing some more research, I ended up with a Novoflex Triopod kit (apex, carbon fiber legs, small mini legs for tabletop use) as well as an extra apex (the Triopod PRO75). Extremely well made, very light, can't wait to get the camera set up and take it out to shoot. The two apexes will allow me to use the smaller one for lighter cameras, and the large one (like a Gitzo 5 series) for heavier gear, or when I need to stabilize a long lens.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and advice, it's truly appreciated!

Great! Enjoy!

[gimenosaiz]

After watching sales and doing some more research, I ended up with a Novoflex Triopod kit (apex, carbon fiber legs, small mini legs for tabletop use) as well as an extra apex (the Triopod PRO75). Extremely well made, very light, can't wait to get the camera set up and take it out to shoot. The two apexes will allow me to use the smaller one for lighter cameras, and the large one (like a Gitzo 5 series) for heavier gear, or when I need to stabilize a long lens.

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and advice, it's truly appreciated!

Hi!

Congratulations for your purchase.
I'm interested in this:
https://www.novoflex.de/en/products-637/camera-support-systems//triopod-products/triopod-kits/triopod-with-carbon-fibre-legs-4-segments.html

Is it yours?

Can you share a link of the larger apex (PRO75)?

Thank you!
Kind regards
Antonio

[Jeff Keller]

Hi!

Congratulations for your purchase.
I'm interested in this:
https://www.novoflex.de/en/products-637/camera-support-systems//triopod-products/triopod-kits/triopod-with-carbon-fibre-legs-4-segments.html

Is it yours?

Can you share a link of the larger apex (PRO75)?

Thank you!
Kind regards
Antonio

https://www.novoflex.de/en/products-637/camera-support-systems/triopod-pro75-3-bein.html

[6x6TLL]

Yes Antonio,

that's the one, although I chose the one with 3 sections instead of 4.

[gimenosaiz]

https://www.novoflex.de/en/products-637/camera-support-systems/triopod-pro75-3-bein.html

Hi! Thank you, Jeff

Regards
Antonio


Yes Antonio,

that's the one, although I chose the one with 3 sections instead of 4.
Hi!

Thank you, 6x6TLL ... The 3 section is slightly more expensive and ... difficult to find in Spain.
I guess is more stable too;-)

Regards!
Antonio

[Pere Casals]

I guess is more stable too;-)


Antonio, on any doubt just attach a toy laser pointer to the front standard. By checking spot's vibration far away you will see whats blurred in the scene, if wind has an effect, at how much time you have to wate after inserting the holder.

The vibration of the spot tells what would be blurred in a slow enough exposure,

with a high shutter speed the blur may be lower than the spot vibration, but the it also depends on luck, as (at high speed) the blurr may also be lower if shutter was fired when vibration movement was changing sense

with that toy it's even possible to know the on film size of the shake blurr, to be compared with lens resolving power, just operating vibration amplitude with magnification (magnification can be found from focal and from laser spot to camera distance).

[gimenosaiz]

Antonio, on any doubt just attach a toy laser pointer to the front standard. By checking spot's vibration far away you will see whats blurred in the scene, if wind has an effect, at how much time you have to wate after inserting the holder.

The vibration of the spot tells what would be blurred in a slow enough exposure,

with a high shutter speed the blur may be lower than the spot vibration, but the it also depends on luck, as (at high speed) the blurr may also be lower if shutter was fired when vibration movement was changing sense

with that toy it's even possible to know the on film size of the shake blurr, to be compared with lens resolving power, just operating vibration amplitude with magnification (magnification can be found from focal and from laser spot to camera distance).

Hello, Pere!

I'm a physicist and I love the experiment you describe. I mean, it's the proper way to demonstrate, ceteris paribus, which option is the best. But I know my mind could derail following this path, hehe. Because, ceteris paribus, I know that my guts prefer the smaller option ... only big stability difference could tip the balance. Your (all of you) experience ...
Thank you, I really appreciate your help!

Kind regards
Antonio

[Bob Salomon]

Hello, Pere!

I'm a physicist and I love the experiment you describe. I mean, it's the proper way to demonstrate, ceteris paribus, which option is the best. But I know my mind could derail following this path, hehe. Because, ceteris paribus, I know that my guts prefer the smaller option ... only big stability difference could tip the balance. Your (all of you) experience ...
Thank you, I really appreciate your help!

Kind regards
Antonio

To make the test more revealing, put several pieces of graph paper on the wall and then have the camera point the laser at the paper. You can then accurately measure the amount of displacement from the graph paper.

[Pere Casals]

I know that my guts prefer the smaller option ...

Anyway making no calculation, just watching what the spot does we know how the thing is going, this is important for light tripods !! There are several urban legends around tripods, the spot tells the truth, for $3...



To make the test more revealing, put several pieces of graph paper on the wall and then have the camera point the laser at the paper. You can then accurately measure the amount of displacement from the graph paper.

+1

[gimenosaiz]

To make the test more revealing, put several pieces of graph paper on the wall and then have the camera point the laser at the paper. You can then accurately measure the amount of displacement from the graph paper.

Hi!

Sure!! Great.
Thank you .

Regards
Antonio

[gimenosaiz]

Anyway making no calculation, just watching what the spot does we know how the thing is going, this is important for light tripods !! There are several urban legends around tripods, the spot tells the truth, for $3...

hi!
Of course you're right ... the spot for $3.
Regards
Antonio

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

I have a Gitzo from 1993 that is nice, but a bit heavy and with limited height.

Figured it was about time to find a modern tripod good for the next 25 years.

I'd like something light (e.g. carbon fiber), stable, supported (spare parts if/when needed), rugged (wind, snow, ice, salt water, etc). Load will be a Rollei 6008 MF rig, and probably a LF rig once I get that far (something appropriate for either field cameras, or a monorail that's light enough to take into the field). I'm guessing 10kg or so would probably be a good minimum load rating. As far as height, 150cm (59") minimum. I don't want a center column, just a spider on which to mount a ball head.

I've narrowed it down to either:
Gitzo Systematic line
Novoflex TrioPod/TrioPod PRO75
RSS TFC-24 Mk. 2


Hello,

it depends - given your Gitzo is a sturdy Reporter or a Studex made of Aluminium I wouldn't change anything and buy a good lens you always use to dream of. Just buy another used Gitzo Studex for 100 USD, that is a little bit higher than the old one you already got.

It seems that the lighter tripod from China are made of cheaper Carbon fiber than those made by Gitzo. Cf. http://thecentercolumn.com

It's interesting: they say that a good carbon fiber tripod outperforms every tripod made of aluminium, but it's quite obvious that only Gitzos are belonging to this class. The other lesson is that a sturdy aluminium tripod is more stabile and damage resistant than a cracky carbon fiber product. https://thecentercolumn.com/2018/06/05/carbon-fiber-vs-aluminum-tripods/

Novoflex tripods are good to mount a Canon Powershot. But they are overpriced objects of criminal desires.

I looked for availabiliy of replacement parts, and I saw that only Gitzo and Manfrotto have got a website where one can order such articles without hassles. I ordered a plate for my old Gitzo Reporter, to replace the old plywood plate I cutted by myself. Don't even know whether the plywood plate is that bad in damping. But the ordered metal plate came rapidly, and this kind of reliability is counting.

I looked for F****l and R****i comments in A****n, too. If there are only 2 negative comments complaining about the same aspects, I wouldn't trust the product. That's why I didn't bought it.

And there is another aspect: products from China can be produced under miserable conditions, given that e.g. about one million of Uyghurs are living in labour camps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmvyjwLxC5I http://www.uyghurcongress.org/en/

If you buy a Gitzo or a Manfrotto, you get a product from a region of this earth where workers have about 20-30 vacation days (when there are children, they can have about 50), where there is social insurance, where workers work only 38 hours a week ... And don't forget: the Italians invented Manfrottos, as well as the French Gitzos, they have the knowledge, and building tripods is a lot more than putting spares together.

As a German I could recommend Berlebachs. The problem with Berlebachs is that they weight too much, compared to the height of the single tripod. Good tripods with good damping weight about 2.5 kg with a height of 125 cm. They have got two sections. When they have three sections the damping isn't better than the damping of a Velbon or a Slik. But the weight increases a lot. I owned a Berlebach Report 8023. It was good, but not very good. It was heavy. Taking such a tripod to mount a Nikon SLR is like cracking a nut with a sledgehammer.

[Bob Salomon]

Hello,

it depends - given your Gitzo is a sturdy Reporter or a Studex made of Aluminium I wouldn't change anything and buy a good lens you always use to dream of. Just buy another used Gitzo Studex for 100 USD, that is a little bit higher than the old one you already got.

It seems that the lighter tripod from China are made of cheaper Carbon fiber than those made by Gitzo. Cf. http://thecentercolumn.com

It's interesting: they say that a good carbon fiber tripod outperforms every tripod made of aluminium, but it's quite obvious that only Gitzos are belonging to this class. The other lesson is that a sturdy aluminium tripod is more stabile and damage resistant than a cracky carbon fiber product. https://thecentercolumn.com/2018/06/05/carbon-fiber-vs-aluminum-tripods/

Novoflex tripods are good to mount a Canon Powershot. But they are overpriced objects of criminal desires.

I looked for availabiliy of replacement parts, and I saw that only Gitzo and Manfrotto have got a website where one can order such arts without hassles. I ordered a plate for my old Gitzo Reporter, to replace the old plywood plate I cutted by myself. Don't even know whether the plywood plate is that bad in damping. But the ordered metal plate came rapidly, and this kind of reliability is counting.

I looked for F****l and R****i comments in A****n, too. If there are only 2 negative comments complaining about the same aspects, I wouldn't trust the product. That's why I didn't bought it.

And there is another aspect: products from China can be produced under miserable conditions, given that e.g. about one million of Uigurians are living in labour camps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmvyjwLxC5I http://www.uyghurcongress.org/en/

If you buy a Gitzo or a Manfrotto, you get a product from a region of this earth where workers have about 20-30 vacation days (when there are children, they can have about 50), where there is social insurance, where workers work only 38 hours a week ... And don't forget: the Italians invented Manfrottos, as well as the French Gitzos, they have the knowledge, and building tripods is a lot more than putting spares together.

As a German I could recommend Berlebachs. The problem with Berlebachs is that they weight too much, compared to the height of the single tripod. Good tripods with good damping weight about 2.5 kg with a height of 125 cm. They have got two sections. When they have three sections the damping isn't better than the damping of a Velbon or a Slik. But the weight increases a lot. I owned a Berlebach Report 8023. It was good, but not very good. It was heavy. Taking such a tripod to mount a Nikon SLR is like cracking a nut with a sledgehammer.

When did you actually test and try a Novovoflex triopod or Quadropod?
And, unlike the others, they are made in Bavaria! So are the parts, which are readily available in the extremely unlikely case that you need them!

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

Hello Bob,

I tested Novoflex in a local store.

The ball head performance was too low compared to its price. I found a website that confirmed my resolution, https://www.traumflieger.de/reports//DSLR-Zubehoer/Stativ-Tipps-/Stativkoepfe/Kugelkoepfe-im-grossen-Traumflieger-Test::1341.html#novoflex_cb3_2

The Triopod, of which I said it could take a Powershot, was too small. But this was the version with the thin legs.

They say that the Triopod Pro75 can achieve a total height of 79 in./2.0 m and that it has a maximum load capacity of 143lbs / 65kg. This is a "maximum holding capacity for maximum protection", as they say.

It would be far more than a comparable Gitzo. Novoflex says that their CB5 ball head would take only 12 kg, https://www.novoflex.de/en/products-637/camera-support-systems/ball-heads/larger-size/classic-ball-5-ii-2875.html - So why should they build a tripod that supports 65kg (with only 3 screws, one in each leg)?

I think, there always is a maximum load, and modern tripods have a lot of maximum load, but I learned from https://thecentercolumn.com/ that there is a safety load, too, and this is the load a tripod must hold without letting the camera tremble or swing.

In my opinion, Manfrotto or Gitzo always mention the safety load to achieve unblurred pictures, and these informations are much more conservative. I think I (100kg) would have no problem to sit on my old Manfrotto 055 tripod made of aluminium. Never tried it. But I think, mounting a camera, e.g. a Cambo SC2 with a maximum length of 40-50cm swinging around, when doing macro in our botanical garden, is another aspect.

When I saw the Novoflex Triopod Pro75 in the local store, I simply wasn't convinced. I am conservative. Perhaps I don't trust tripods that are more than 50% lighter than the camera.

Of course its grey coulour symbolizes understatement, and the shiny blue elements signal the manufacturer. I wouldn't take the tripod with me for a weekend hike in the Alps, because every pickpocket in the local railway station would know excactly what I carry around with my rucksack.

Concerning the parts: you're completely right.

Regards

PS Concerning bavarians: I come from western germany, from a region that often changed between Germany and France. We learned to mistrust promises. Our people worked in the metal working and processing industry. We know what a good tripod is, we use tripods to make barbecues. As far as the bavarians are concerned: when we were french the last time, Bavaria was a rural country, as it is today, still ;-)

[Bob Salomon]

Hello Bob,

I tested Novoflex in a local store.

The ball head performance was too low compared to its price. I found a website that confirmed my resolution, https://www.traumflieger.de/reports//DSLR-Zubehoer/Stativ-Tipps-/Stativkoepfe/Kugelkoepfe-im-grossen-Traumflieger-Test::1341.html#novoflex_cb3_2

The Triopod, of which I said it could take a Powershot, was too small. But this was the version with the thin legs.

They say that the Triopod Pro75 can achieve a total height of 79 in./2.0 m and that it has a maximum load capacity of 143lbs / 65kg. This is a "maximum holding capacity for maximum protection", as they say.

It would be far more than a comparable Gitzo. Novoflex says that their CB5 ball head would take only 12 kg, https://www.novoflex.de/en/products-637/camera-support-systems/ball-heads/larger-size/classic-ball-5-ii-2875.html - So why should they build a tripod that supports 65kg (with only 3 screws, one in each leg)?

I think, there always is a maximum load, and modern tripods have a lot of maximum load, but I learned from https://thecentercolumn.com/ that there is a safety load, too, and this is the load a tripod must hold without letting the camera tremble or swing.

In my opinion, Manfrotto or Gitzo always mention the safety load to achieve unblurred pictures, and these informations are much more conservative. I think I (100kg) would have no problem to sit on my old Manfrotto 055 tripod made of aluminium. Never tried it. But I think, mounting a camera, e.g. a Cambo SC2 with a maximum length of 40-50cm swinging around, when doing macro in our botanical garden, is another aspect.

When I saw the Novoflex Triopod Pro75 in the local store, I simply wasn't convinced. I am conservative. Perhaps I don't trust tripods that are more than 50% lighter than the camera.

Of course its grey coulour symbolizes understatement, and the shiny blue elements signal the manufacturer. I wouldn't take the tripod with me for a weekend hike in the Alps, because every pickpocket in the local railway station would know excactly what I carry around with my rucksack.

Concerning the parts: you're completely right.

Regards

PS Concerning bavarians: I come from western germany, from a region that often changed between Germany and France. We learned to mistrust promises. Our people worked in the metal working and processing industry. We know what a good tripod is, we use tripods to make barbecues. As far as the bavarians are concerned: when we were french the last time, Bavaria was a rural country, as it is today, still ;-)

The Triopod is a tripod. Those are the legs. The head is always extra.

You really have to use a Novoflex TRIOPOD or their Quadropod and then use their ball heads and experience them.

The Triopod and Quadropod offer a wide choice of both carbon and aluminum legs, they are fully user interchangeable. So pick a set of legs that satisfy you, they start as short as tabletop legs and then offer everything bigger. Some come with both tabletop and full size in a package.

[pgk]

There are only two sorts of tripod; those which hold the camera steady and those that don't. Aluminium or CF make little difference IMO, and I have both. What is important is rigidity and, dare I say it, this has something to do with weight! In 1980 I bought a used Gitzo Reporter which I still have and which I still use though it looks somewhat battered. It is basic but tough and whilst not the lightest it has held a huge variety of cameras over the years from 35mm to 5" x 4". Currently I have about 7 or 8 Gitzos and a couple of Linhof Studio Tripods, an ancient Miller and a Gandolfi. All work depending on load. The Gitzos are extraordinarily tough - you can break them by driving over them in a 4WD as a friend has done (requires spares to be ordered) but otherwise they are pretty difficult to damage. I've tried others including RRS and have never taken to the Novoflex. Friends run Manfrottos, and some current offerings from the far east, but I will stick with the Gitzos.

My Reporter is the longest owned item of photo gear I have. Its travelled, been used with its legs in the sea, tumbled down slopes, been battered around in luggage and generally had a hard time. It works fine. That should say it all.

But I do understand the desire to own something lighter and perhaps a little more subtle in operation. Maybe I'll find something like this one day. In the meantime I'll stick with my Gitzo (that said I must cull my tripods, pity they are heavy - it makes shipping expensive!).

[CreationBear]

PS Concerning bavarians: I come from western germany, from a region that often changed between Germany and France. We learned to mistrust promises. Our people worked in the metal working and processing industry. We know what a good tripod is, we use tripods to make barbecues. As far as the bavarians are concerned: when we were french the last time, Bavaria was a rural country, as it is today, still ;-)

Ha, I happened to be in Trier not long after Ratzinger became pope and was initially puzzled why there wasn't quite the same outpouring of emotion the Poles showed for John Paul...:)

[Robert Opheim]

Joe I have a Black monster - very very solid camera. I have been using a 400 series giant Gitzo tripod with a Gitzo PL5 head without the center column (I bought the 8 inch column for it). This tripod and head has work very well. This is a heavy rig to carry around and work with - but it doesn't move - except in a a lot of wind and then everything else is moving anyway. Usuallly it is in the car trunk and I scout the image out and go back and carry the equipment to the place I want to shoot. I have a pack with a technikardan 4x5 to carry around.

[Jac@stafford.net]

As my toy SUV (https://www.toyotaofcolchester.com/assets/stock/colormatched_02/white/640/cc_2011toy011a_02_640/cc_2011toy011a_02_640_040.jpg) fills to accommodate a sleeping pad, I'm finding little room for the tripod. Thinking of getting large PVC pipe to lash to the outside top roof rails. I used to just bag it and put it up there but wear was too much. Any of you done the PVC thing?

[joem]

Joe I have a Black monster - very very solid camera. I have been using a 400 series giant Gitzo tripod with a Gitzo PL5 head without the center column (I bought the 8 inch column for it). This tripod and head has work very well. This is a heavy rig to carry around and work with - but it doesn't move - except in a a lot of wind and then everything else is moving anyway. Usuallly it is in the car trunk and I scout the image out and go back and carry the equipment to the place I want to shoot. I have a pack with a technikardan 4x5 to carry around.

Still toying with ideas for another tripod time will tell.

[6x6TLL]

Well, I bought an "overpriced object of criminal desires" Novoflex Triopod kit with additional Triopod PRO75 apex. The system is modular, the legs unscrew and can be attached to either apex (the Triopod apex is small, light and still quite sturdy, perfect for 35mm or a medium format rig with a standard lens, while the PRO75 is much larger and heavy duty, works well with medium format and long lenses as well as large format).

I've only had it a month or so, but so far I can say I'm very happy with it. I still have my 25 year old Gitzo Reporter, also a fine tripod, but much heavier and not nearly as tall as the Novoflex.

As far as heads go, I can't comment on the Novoflex heads, never tried them. I have an old RRS ball head that works for my MF gear and an Arca Swiss D4 that I use with the large format setup. Both work very well, although based on the fit and finish of the Novoflex tripod I'll certainly give one of their heads a try next time I'm in the market for one. Tripods and heads are generally things I try to purchase once to cover my needs, and be done with.

Thanks again for the suggestions, comments and opinions.

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

Ha, I happened to be in Trier not long after Ratzinger became pope and was initially puzzled why there wasn't quite the same outpouring of emotion the Poles showed for John Paul...:)

Yeah, Trier is a cute little town ... There was a bishop in Trier, Marx, same name as Karl Marx, who came from Trier, too, before he lived in London. The bishop followed Ratzinger as arcbishop of Munich. So, the circle to the Bavarians is closed.

Trier was, after Rome and Verona, the third-greatest city of the roman antiquity.

People in the Trier-region produce some great wines (e.g. Ayler Kupp). I think people who produce wine aren't much fanatic. The problem with the Poles is that they don't cultivate wine. Look at the PiS-party in Poland - they are so sincere that they even don't realize how funny the name of their political party is. - Wine and catholicism - sinning and forgiving, and not having too strong and purist views: this is the western Rhineland.

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

Currently I have about 7 or 8 Gitzos

I understand you.

Appearently there is a T-A-S.

Although I already have a Gitzo Studex, a Reporter, a Sport Performance and a Weekend, I ordered two other Gitzos, a Studex Safari and a Reporter Safari (S322, S220) to take photographs at the seashore. I wanted to buy a China clone, a Feisol CT-3442, but then I decided to stay with the things I know. A cheap little Cullman Mondo 525 helped me to make sharp 6x9-negatives with my Fujica, even at 1 sec, but after two weeks in Southern France it starts to be wobbly.

Merry Christmas