Intrepid 8x10 experiences?

[robertraymer]

To start, I realize there is another intrepid related thread just below this, but having read through it I felt it was different from what I am asking. That said, if I should move this question to that thread just let me know and I will....Now to the question:

How many people here have had experiences, good or bad, with the Intrepid 8x10?

Im looking to start shooting 8x10, some film, but mostly plates, and am indecisive about what camera to start out with. Initially I had been thinking about trying to sell/trade my 5x7 Graflex series B and using the money to purchase either an older camera like a Kodak 2D, Ansco or even a tailboard camera or cheaper more modern camera like a Toyo, but when I saw the prices for the Intrepid 8x10 I started thinking about that as a way to get a "cheap" 8x10 and keep my graflex. My only worry is that I am not sure how well an Intrepid would hold up. I know that the older cameras, though they may not be in perfect condition, are obviously built to last and will likely keep working for some time to come with proper care. With the Intrepid I worry about craftsmanship, and how well the materials will hold up over time, especially when it comes to things like using plywood for the body and bungee for the spring back rather than actual metal springs and the like. And since I plan on using the camera for wet plate I also wonder how well it will hold up to that process. I think the camera would be great for me, especially given the light weight and portability, if it will last, but I have my doubts.

Basically I was wondering of anyone has any comments on how well their cameras have held up over the time they have used them or if there are any other variables I should be thinking about that I have not considered.

Thanks,
Rob

[Graham Patterson]

The Intrepid 8x10 only started shipping just about a year ago. It is a little soon to comment on longevity. There should be a thread on the camera around the time it started shipping that gives a lot of first impressions. For me, 8x10 is a niche interest. Practically everything to do with 8x10 is four times that of 4x5 - film costs, holders, size 8-), and by the time I have the lenses and holders, the actual cost of the camera is less significant as part of the whole. I know I will be doing the bulk of my large format work in 4x5 with a Wista DX or an MPP VII.

Intrepid 8x10:
You can replace bungee cord. Really useful stuff to have around.
Build precision could be better, but this is not a geared technical camera. It might not be rigid enough in windy conditions - but 8x10 bellows area starts to be a problem in those conditions.
The plywood is dimensionally stable, light, and sealed. I wouldn't soak it in water for long periods, but I hope never to do that with any of my cameras.
Bellows is just under double extension, so a 600mm non-telephoto is not likely to be practical. I'm in 300mm territory, so it is not an issue.
The 5x4 back will not allow a 90mm to focus with the standard front standard mounting position. You can move the front standard back with a bit of effort and a home made adapter, but the movements will be severely bellows limited. I'd say the best minimum for 5x4 is 120mm. On the other hand, you get close to 600mm of bellows to play with.
I made a plywood panel to sit inside the back to give me 4x10 in horizontal or vertical, which is useful for some of my subjects.

I cannot comment on wet-plate use.

In automotive terms, it is closer to a mass produced basic/medium trim car than a limited edition hand-finished one. Both will probably get you where you want to go. Just a matter of comfort and utility.

[robertraymer]

I agree with you on the 4x5 vs 8x10 film aspect regarding cost, availability, and general convenience. Right now the bulk of my LF work is 4x5 done with a Graflex Series D, Speed Graphic, or Toyo, depending on my particular wants/needs for the shoot. I wouldn't even have considered 8x10 for film only, but shooting plates is a different ballgame and I feel like 8x10 is a great size. That way people can get a plate in a "print" size that they are familiar with, 8x10 being one of the most popular portrait sizes.

I appreciate your insights/evaluations, they are very helpful. I know I can replace the bungee, I think my worry is more having it break in the middle of a shoot, or worse in the middle of an exposure. As for the wood I also don't plan on getting it soaked, but for some reason I had a feeling it may warp more easily than solid wood. Not sure if that is true or not. Also not worried about build precision as much as long as it won't come apart. I don't need a technical camera, or super precise movements since I shoot portraits almost exclusively.

In the end it sounds like it might not be a bad option for me unless I get a lot of other feedback that is negative.

[Bob Salomon]

I agree with you on the 4x5 vs 8x10 film aspect regarding cost, availability, and general convenience. Right now the bulk of my LF work is 4x5 done with a Graflex Series D, Speed Graphic, or Toyo, depending on my particular wants/needs for the shoot. I wouldn't even have considered 8x10 for film only, but shooting plates is a different ballgame and I feel like 8x10 is a great size. That way people can get a plate in a "print" size that they are familiar with, 8x10 being one of the most popular portrait sizes.

I appreciate your insights/evaluations, they are very helpful. I know I can replace the bungee, I think my worry is more having it break in the middle of a shoot, or worse in the middle of an exposure. As for the wood I also don't plan on getting it soaked, but for some reason I had a feeling it may warp more easily than solid wood. Not sure if that is true or not. Also not worried about build precision as much as long as it won't come apart. I don't need a technical camera, or super precise movements since I shoot portraits almost exclusively.

In the end it sounds like it might not be a bad option for me unless I get a lot of other feedback that is negative.

They build boats out of plywood. It will depend what type of plywood, exterior - or something else?

[robertraymer]

True. They say "furniture grade" plywood. I don't know enough about different wood grades to know what that means in terms of likeliness of warping.

One other thing I just started thinking about when looking at the cameras construction was lens selection. I noticed that the front standard has only one screw on each side for securing it as well as rise/fall and tilt, which got me thinking about lens weight. On top of that the camera itself is quite light. I tend to use a fairly heavy lens (Dallmeyer Pentac 8") as one of my go to lenses for portraits, and plan on using other brass lenses, which are definitely not known for being light. I wonder if the camera will have any issues with stability when using such heavy lenses.

[Bob Salomon]

True. They say "furniture grade" plywood. I don't know enough about different wood grades to know what that means in terms of likeliness of warping.

One other thing I just started thinking about when looking at the cameras construction was lens selection. I noticed that the front standard has only one screw on each side for securing it as well as rise/fall and tilt, which got me thinking about lens weight. On top of that the camera itself is quite light. I tend to use a fairly heavy lens (Dallmeyer Pentac 8") as one of my go to lenses for portraits, and plan on using other brass lenses, which are definitely not known for being light. I wonder if the camera will have any issues with stability when using such heavy lenses.

I would worry about the plywood delaminating, as well as warping.

[Graham Patterson]

Long focal length, heavy lenses may need some adjustment of the tripod center to balance the camera, but that can be an issue with any folding baseboard camera design like this.

I will worry about warping or delamination of the plywood when it happens - assuming I am still around to use the camera!

[Michael Kadillak]

Couple of comments on this topic.

It is my understanding that Intrepid camera is going to metal GG support on the camera back on their next 8x10 production run fairly soon. They claim that the bungie cord works, but they are being responsive to a propensity of camera users that are asking for the inclusion of the spring. I am good with that move. There are unsubstantiated rumors that Intrepid could be going to a dual front standard clamp system - one for rise/fall and one for tilt. I think that could be wishful thinking. The fact is that the camera company is thin in the personal department and as a result informational and/or promotional details are thin if at all. They have their heart in the right place so I do not place fault on them in this regard.

I question the sanity of any photographer that would attempt to use a lens on this camera equal to or greater than the weight of the camera and attempt to call this a problem. Come on man, the attributes of the camera is light weight and light weight is not structurally capable of handling such photographic objectives. If that is your gig, unfortunately this camera is not going to deliver the goods. And you do not have to be educated as an engineer to arrive at this conclusion.

[williaty]

Regarding the plywood: they're using high ply-count Baltic Birch plywood. If you've bought plywood in the US from anything that wasn't a specialty/high-end hardwoods dealer catering to the art furniture market, you probably haven't ever handled anything like it. American plywoods are generally low-ply count and made from softwood. Those two factors, but especially the low ply count and the fact that we rush them out of the plant still damp and ship them to the big box store in the rain are what accounts for the bad impression of plywood. The hardwood used in the fancy plywood and the high ply count give it very good properties (especially compared to "normal" plywood). In my experience with it, it's LESS likely to warp or move with seasonal humidity changes than solid hardwoods and I've never heard of it delaminating other than when submerged in water for an extended period of time (days).

The camera has some things to worry about but the plywood isn't one of them.

[AuditorOne]

Solid wood is just as likely to warp as the plywood that Intrepid is using to build their cameras. I have an original kickstarter 4x5 Intrepid and it has been heavily used all year round, Spring, Summer, Fall and Winter, and the wood it is made of doesn't seem to mind it at all. Neither are my "bungee cords" losing any of their strength.

If you are looking for a studio camera then the Intrepid may not be the right camera for you. If you are looking for an ultra-light backpacking camera then the Intrepid might work.

[robertraymer]

Couple of comments on this topic.

It is my understanding that Intrepid camera is going to metal GG support on the camera back on their next 8x10 production run fairly soon. They claim that the bungie cord works, but they are being responsive to a propensity of camera users that are asking for the inclusion of the spring. I am good with that move. There are unsubstantiated rumors that Intrepid could be going to a dual front standard clamp system - one for rise/fall and one for tilt. I think that could be wishful thinking. The fact is that the camera company is thin in the personal department and as a result informational and/or promotional details are thin if at all. They have their heart in the right place so I do not place fault on them in this regard.

I question the sanity of any photographer that would attempt to use a lens on this camera equal to or greater than the weight of the camera and attempt to call this a problem. Come on man, the attributes of the camera is light weight and light weight is not structurally capable of handling such photographic objectives. If that is your gig, unfortunately this camera is not going to deliver the goods. And you do not have to be educated as an engineer to arrive at this conclusion.

Don't get me wrong, I am not criticizing them by any means, nor do I expect unreasonable things from this camera. I completely understand the choices they made in order to get the product at the price point they wanted. I think it is great that they are doing and I believe they will open up the world of LF to make who have not considered it a viable option previously. I was only asking for peoples experiences because although I am familiar with likely limitations that I know have the potential to be present (lens selection, finish quality, durability) I have not used it myself and therefore was hoping to get experiences from other people.

[agregov]

Ben Horne recently posted a review of the 810. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8PczK2Lpwk

A friend has the Intrpeid 810 and jury is still out for him. Watching him use it, the camera appears to work fine but it is more “fiddley” than a typical 810. Horne's video points that out. What I like about the Intrepids in general is a low price point to try out large format photography. If someone falls in love with the format, then it's easier to justify the cost to upgrade. The weight advantage is also huge with Intrepid. So, you could keep the Intrepid for field use and move to a different setup for the studio—again if you really bond with the format. For lenses, I do think it's good advice to avoid copal 3 lenses.

[Alan9940]

I was part of the Intrepid 8x10 Kickstarter campaign and, as such, only received my camera this past April. That said, I feel I've used it enough to make some general comments:

1. Regarding the plywood construction, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Good quality Birch plywood is very stable. I have a large worktable in my studio that I built out of Birch plywood and pine that is nearly 40 years old and it's in the same condition today as when I finished it. True, this table doesn't go outside, but I've lived in pretty high humidity areas here and moved it across country. Since I don't plan to take my Intrepid 8x10 out in the rain, I'm figuring it should hold up about the same.

2. Setting up the camera is a bit fiddly because the rear standard, at least on my camera, doesn't align exactly perpendicular to the base when it's set into the half-moon slots on the struts. I use a plastic 90 degree triangle to ensure it's set right. The front standard has no detent so you simply eyeball it.

3. Movements are not particularly smooth, but work fine. You get used to it.

4. Use of heavy lenses, IMO, is out of the question. In general, I wouldn't use anything larger than what fits into a Copal 1 shutter.

I mention these things not as criticism of the camera, but more as general things for your consideration. Consider the price point; this ain't an Ebony and costs a fraction of those cameras. One huge advantage for this old timer is my ability to carry my 8x10 outfit further into the wilds and not be limited to working from the car.

Hope something I've said here helps.

[Fred L]

I may have said this before but they need to redesign the back so that the camera can be closed in landscape orientation. As it is, the back must be rotated to portrait in order for the back opening 'ears' to clear the strut. I just sawed off the top ear to solve this annoyance. Also, and I hope this is not the case with others, my bellows seem to be delaminating, just from storage at home. I see crinkles and lifting of the outer bellows fabric, if that makes any sense. Not an issue yet but will be keeping my eye on it.

The camera is a great price and I bought it for the weight since I really don't relish schlepping my Zone VI and Ries tripods through the bush. Maybe I need to lift more weights haha

[Gordon Lucas]

It's okay. It needs the same kind of upgrade as their 4x5 which is now in the 3rd generation. I have both. and the 4x5 is great. The 8x10 still needs work but it is serviceable, and the cheapest ballgame in town.

Here's my first shot with my 8x10 Intrepid (after 3 failures which was my fault, not the camera's.) 300mm Fujinon L f5.6 lens, a fairly heavy beast which did not tax the camera at all I'm pleased to say), 1/30th at f22, Fp4 in Pyrocat. Serviceable and the price is right.

I realize I might be alone in saying that the Fuji lens is fine, but so far no problems. I may one day buy a Nikon F9 but not today.

http://www.pbase.com/moltogordo/image/168035425.jpg

[Bob Salomon]

It's okay. It needs the same kind of upgrade as their 4x5 which is now in the 3rd generation. I have both. and the 4x5 is great. The 8x10 still needs work but it is serviceable, and the cheapest ballgame in town.

Here's my first shot with my 8x10 Intrepid (after 3 failures which was my fault, not the camera's.) 300mm Fujinon L f5.6 lens, a fairly heavy beast which did not tax the camera at all I'm pleased to say), 1/30th at f22, Fp4 in Pyrocat. Serviceable and the price is right.

I realize I might be alone in saying that the Fuji lens is fine, but so far no problems. I may one day buy a Nikon F9 but not today.

http://www.pbase.com/moltogordo/image/168035425.jpg

Nice, but I can’t find a sharp spot, it is also too flat for me.

[Gordon Lucas]

Nice, but I can’t find a sharp spot, it is also too flat for me.

I'd say I agree . . . first shot though. Much better negative than digitizations as well. I'll post some more 8x10s when I shoot them. I'm a professional violinist and conduct a big amateur orchestra so this is my busy season. (excuses, excuses, eh?? :D )

(PS I'd also say that the jury is out on my involvement in 8x10. It seems to me, at this point, it is a format that demands a huge amount of commitment, and I'm not sure I have the time or money to make it my major "focus." I don't think it's a format that allows concubines. :D )

[paulbarden]

If I ever get mine, I will offer an opinion of it. For now, all I can tell you is that I ordered mine May 15th and they told me 8 weeks to ship. I'm still waiting, and they keep telling me "soon".

[Bob Salomon]

If I ever get mine, I will offer an opinion of it. For now, all I can tell you is that I ordered mine May 15th and they told me 8 weeks to ship. I'm still waiting, and they keep telling me "soon".

Why not tell them if you don’t have it in 10 days you will cancel and demand full credit. Soon isn’t an acceptable response at this time!

[kenj8246]

If I ever get mine, I will offer an opinion of it. For now, all I can tell you is that I ordered mine May 15th and they told me 8 weeks to ship. I'm still waiting, and they keep telling me "soon".

Well, rats!! I ordered August 8 so I guess I should probably try to think about something else. :(

[Marky]

I ordered mine after the Kickstarter (Oct 2017) and received the camera in June 2018. So they did deliver but took a long time, and multiple emails asking for updates (and "soon" reply).

Bads:
- Having to switch orientation to fold it.
- The back will sag when film holder's inserted.
- The front standard is rubbish. It will not stand vertical if you have a heavy lens ( >1lbs) on it.

You can make pictures with it but it's extremely fiddly. It's a fun toy for recreational use, so you should treat it as such. If you don't have a lot of knowledge using a real camera before it will frustrate you to no end. But if it gets destroyed I will probably get a replacement, since it's a very fun toy.

[paulbarden]

Why not tell them if you don’t have it in 10 days you will cancel and demand full credit. Soon isn’t an acceptable response at this time!

I am not one to engage in “ultimatum tactics”, as I feel such behavior is unnecessarily aggressive and counterproductive. I’m willing to wait and see what happens, but since I purchased this in May hoping to use it for a late summer project whose window is now expiring, I’m likely to simply offer the camera for sale when it does arrive.

I was considering backing their LF Enlarger Kickstarter, but given my current experience, I doubt I’ll bother.

[cp_photo]

I'm sorry to say I had this exact bad experience trying to order the Intrepid 8x10. I was told "Soon" etc. and had difficulties in getting a reply at the time. When it was very late and it became clear there was no chance of receiving it in any reasonable specific timeframe I asked for and received a refund.

[Bob Salomon]

I am not one to engage in “ultimatum tactics”, as I feel such behavior is unnecessarily aggressive and counterproductive. I’m willing to wait and see what happens, but since I purchased this in May hoping to use it for a late summer project whose window is now expiring, I’m likely to simply offer the camera for sale when it does arrive.

I was considering backing their LF Enlarger Kickstarter, but given my current experience, I doubt I’ll bother.

Unnecessarily aggressive is one way of looking at it, but if you have paid for something and not received it in a timely fashion then they are making money on your money and hanging you out to dry! I admire your patience but I can’t respect. It.
If a business makes a commitment to a customer then it should be honored, even if it costs the company to honor it.
Once they get the reputation of not meeting their commitments and not delivering in a timely manner it is virtually impossible for them to regain a positive reputation.

And, if they can not honor that commitment, at the very least, they should be in regular, timely, contact with the customer to update progress. Not just say “soon”! You deserve to know how when and why there is a delay for what you paid for!

[kenj8246]

This thread is now three pages in length; I'm hoping one--or more--of the Intrepid principals might jump in with something to say. Other than 'soon'. :)

[paulbarden]

Unnecessarily aggressive is one way of looking at it, but if you have paid for something and not received it in a timely fashion then they are making money on your money and hanging you out to dry!
And, if they can not honor that commitment, at the very least, they should be in regular, timely, contact with the customer to update progress. Not just say “soon”! You deserve to know how when and why there is a delay for what you paid for!

Thanks for your input. We obviously have different styles for dealing with dis-satisfactory purchase experiences, and that's fine. FWIW, it should be noted that their responses were in fact more than monosyllabic, but I saw no need to quote the entire messages (which were fairly explicit in detailing the problems: a huge rush of orders in May/June, and unexpected manufacturing obstacles), so I condensed the messages to "soon". I assure you they had more to say than that, but it wasn't necessary to include it here.

This discussion has prompted me to compose an email to Intrepid Camera and cancel my order. I see that the last piece of correspondence was 15 days ago, in which I was promised my camera would ship "within 2 weeks". I have to conclude that it has NOT shipped (they promised a notification with tracking info) as I have had no new information from them since Sept. 15. Sadly, I have to give up on it. If I had known I wouldn't receive it before October, I would not have made the purchase. I hope they get it together, for their reputation's sake.

[Michael Kadillak]

I ordered mine after the Kickstarter (Oct 2017) and received the camera in June 2018. So they did deliver but took a long time, and multiple emails asking for updates (and "soon" reply).

Bads:
- Having to switch orientation to fold it.
- The back will sag when film holder's inserted.
- The front standard is rubbish. It will not stand vertical if you have a heavy lens ( >1lbs) on it.

You can make pictures with it but it's extremely fiddly. It's a fun toy for recreational use, so you should treat it as such. If you don't have a lot of knowledge using a real camera before it will frustrate you to no end. But if it gets destroyed I will probably get a replacement, since it's a very fun toy.

Please describe the condition above here the back "sags" when a film holder is inserted? Does the focus shift? Not sure I understand adequately what is going on here.

[Michael Kadillak]

Thanks for your input. We obviously have different styles for dealing with dis-satisfactory purchase experiences, and that's fine. FWIW, it should be noted that their responses were in fact more than monosyllabic, but I saw no need to quote the entire messages (which were fairly explicit in detailing the problems: a huge rush of orders in May/June, and unexpected manufacturing obstacles), so I condensed the messages to "soon". I assure you they had more to say than that, but it wasn't necessary to include it here.

This discussion has prompted me to compose an email to Intrepid Camera and cancel my order. I see that the last piece of correspondence was 15 days ago, in which I was promised my camera would ship "within 2 weeks". I have to conclude that it has NOT shipped (they promised a notification with tracking info) as I have had no new information from them since Sept. 15. Sadly, I have to give up on it. If I had known I wouldn't receive it before October, I would not have made the purchase. I hope they get it together, for their reputation's sake. I honestly expect you will get a refund soon. I do not believe that the owners of this business are intent on purposefully causing harm or mis representing performance conditions. We do know that this company ascribes to a hybrid business model so that they can accomplish the stated objective of supplying a low cost 8x10 camera. They have a very limited staff and all of the employees have multiple tasks to produce the camera and lastly, we are talking about a $625 camera. How much profit do you think that they are making on an 8x10 camera? $300 or $400? Not exactly knocking it out of the park. They could move the price point up to $900 and hire more staff and likely see some orders dry up. As a businessman myself I get where they are coming from. The bad news is folks like yourself that ordered with an expectation that is far past due are frustrated and that is too bad. If I get sufficient data from other users to make an order, I am going to give it a good five months and be patient. The good news is the demand appears to be vibrant.

[Marky]

Please describe the condition above here the back "sags" when a film holder is inserted? Does the focus shift? Not sure I understand adequately what is going on here.

When the back is horizontal and film holder inserted, the top bungee cord cannot hold the weight of the back, and will slip down a little bit. What happens then is the top will have less pressure than the bottom, potentially causing a light leak/misfocus. I undid my top bungee cord and tied a tighter knot but it only helps somewhat. A metal spring back like the 4x5 MK3 will likely eliminate this problem.

[Michael Kadillak]

When the back is horizontal and film holder inserted, the top bungee cord cannot hold the weight of the back, and will slip down a little bit. What happens then is the top will have less pressure than the bottom, potentially causing a light leak/misfocus. I undid my top bungee cord and tied a tighter knot but it only helps somewhat. A metal spring back like the 4x5 MK3 will likely eliminate this problem.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my concern. That makes perfect sense. The inclusion of a metal spring back should remedy that situation fairly quickly. The more I find myself hiking in the Colorado Rockies for photographic opportunities, the more the Intrepid 8x10 makes sense. That said I will endure carrying my Canham wooden 8x10 for as long as it takes for the Intrepid to show up once I make the order. Just waiting to make sure that the bungie cords are a thing of the past.

[paulbarden]

When the back is horizontal and film holder inserted, the top bungee cord cannot hold the weight of the back, and will slip down a little bit. What happens then is the top will have less pressure than the bottom, potentially causing a light leak/misfocus. I undid my top bungee cord and tied a tighter knot but it only helps somewhat. A metal spring back like the 4x5 MK3 will likely eliminate this problem.

I was told that the 8X10 they would ship me had the new metal spring-fitted back, so apparently that's what they are shipping now.

[Michael Kadillak]

I was told that the 8X10 they would ship me had the new metal spring-fitted back, so apparently that's what they are shipping now.

Hope you can find a suitable replacement to the Intrepid 8x10 to keep you in the 8x10 photography game.

[paulbarden]

Hope you can find a suitable replacement to the Intrepid 8x10 to keep you in the 8x10 photography game.

Actually, I already have a Deardorff 8x10, but there are some places I’d rather not take it, which is why I ordered an Intrepid.

[Alan9940]

Actually, I already have a Deardorff 8x10, but there are some places I’d rather not take it, which is why I ordered an Intrepid.

Me, too. And, exactly why I jumped on the Kickstarter campaign; ya just can't beat <5 lbs for an 8x10, regardless of some fiddling to use it. It's, also, not so good in the wind, but I use my darkcloth to shield it and, so far, no noticeable issues.

[csxcnj]

I was told that the 8X10 they would ship me had the new metal spring-fitted back, so apparently that's what they are shipping now.

When you received your camera did it have a metal back. I was one of the last in line on Kickstarter so didn’t early December and it has the bungee cord back. It sags a good 1/4” withnthe film holder inserted. Not good.

[Tin Can]

I want to know also, as last night I was shopping the 8X10 Intrepid on their website.

What they show is the bungee cord back in one corner at an angle, no update in images or text.

I will wait.

[Luis-F-S]

Actually, I already have a Deardorff 8x10, but there are some places I’d rather not take it, which is why I ordered an Intrepid.

Why I have a really clean Deardorff and a more user one! The clean one doesn't see the outside of the safe often.

[paulbarden]

When you received your camera did it have a metal back. I was one of the last in line on Kickstarter so didn’t early December and it has the bungee cord back. It sags a good 1/4” withnthe film holder inserted. Not good.

No metal spring back, it was the bungee cord version. When I placed my order I specifically asked this question: will I get the new spring back? and they said, yes, I would. So on that count I am very disappointed. I dislike the bungee solution, since in the 8X10 size it gets very sloppy and imprecise. To make matters worse, the focusing mechanism in the rail bed skipped gears badly when it was racked out to about 50% of maximum, at which point it simply ground the gears and nothing moved. They DID send a replacement bed and it works better, but there are signs that its going to have some degree of the same problem as things start to wear (these gears are plastic, as you might guess). On top of all that, the bellows are already showing signs of excessive sag and don't want to fold up without misfolding. I don't think the bellows are going to hold up to years of use. Also, the black metal clips attached to the top edge of the ground glass frame are so badly aligned to the wood that one of them has already pulled out, since only one screw actually had purchase in the wood frame.

In all, there seems to be some serious quality control issues at Intrepid. I've heard from a friend who also received the 8X10 camera around the same time I got delivery of mine, and he said the focusing mechanism skipped/ground gears like mine, and was useless. He opted to return his for a refund. Right now, I wish I had too. If I had known the camera would have had these issues I would have refrained from buying one, and sought out an old Kodak 2-D instead.

Sorry, Intrepid. I know you're trying, and I admire what it is you're trying to do, but if other people are having the same experiences, you're going to earn a reputation for poor craftsmanship. I hope things improve, for your sake and for your customers.

[Alan9940]

Sorry, Intrepid. I know you're trying, and I admire what it is you're trying to do, but if other people are having the same experiences, you're going to earn a reputation for poor craftsmanship. I hope things improve, for your sake and for your customers.

I've used my Kickstarter Intrepid 8x10 for nearly a year now and no issues. That said, it certainly wouldn't hurt them, as a company, to up their QC game a bit with particular attention to customer communication.

[csxcnj]

No metal spring back, it was the bungee cord version. When I placed my order I specifically asked this question: will I get the new spring back? and they said, yes, I would. So on that count I am very disappointed. I dislike the bungee solution, since in the 8X10 size it gets very sloppy and imprecise. To make matters worse, the focusing mechanism in the rail bed skipped gears badly when it was racked out to about 50% of maximum, at which point it simply ground the gears and nothing moved. They DID send a replacement bed and it works better, but there are signs that its going to have some degree of the same problem as things start to wear (these gears are plastic, as you might guess). On top of all that, the bellows are already showing signs of excessive sag and don't want to fold up without misfolding. I don't think the bellows are going to hold up to years of use. Also, the black metal clips attached to the top edge of the ground glass frame are so badly aligned to the wood that one of them has already pulled out, since only one screw actually had purchase in the wood frame.

In all, there seems to be some serious quality control issues at Intrepid. I've heard from a friend who also received the 8X10 camera around the same time I got delivery of mine, and he said the focusing mechanism skipped/ground gears like mine, and was useless. He opted to return his for a refund. Right now, I wish I had too. If I had known the camera would have had these issues I would have refrained from buying one, and sought out an old Kodak 2-D instead.

Sorry, Intrepid. I know you're trying, and I admire what it is you're trying to do, but if other people are having the same experiences, you're going to earn a reputation for poor craftsmanship. I hope things improve, for your sake and for your customers.

Wasn’t sure how they’d fit the metal back on there without making the camera larger so was surprised when you said that yours would have one.

I thought the rack on my bed was skipping teeth on the gears also. It will do that when you get it extended all the way out or retracted all the way in. What caused mine to grind half way out was the lock nut on the gear knob. As you move the bed the lock nut tends to tighten up if you haven’t loosened it up enough. That will cause the gear and teeth to skip. They’re using phenolic plastic and when I checked mine there was no sign of damage to the mechanism. Enough means farther than you’d expect to have to loosen it.

On the the back a little while ago I popped the bungee cords out of their capture holes on the side away from the entrance for the film holder and put a new knot in them to increase the holding force. Big improvement. The front standard wobbles a bit when tightened down. I’m going to get a flat washer about as wide as the knob on the screw down ang glue it in place directly to the bottom of the knob to increase stability.

[Tin Can]

If you watch the BenHorne review he talks about how to better stabilize the front standard.

When I added a washer to my 4X5 Intrepid KS model it caused lessened thread engagement...

My 4X5 Intrepid also skipped teeth when wound out too far, changing extension holes worked.




Wasn’t sure how they’d fit the metal back on there without making the camera larger so was surprised when you said that yours would have one.

I thought the rack on my bed was skipping teeth on the gears also. It will do that when you get it extended all the way out or retracted all the way in. What caused mine to grind half way out was the lock nut on the gear knob. As you move the bed the lock nut tends to tighten up if you haven’t loosened it up enough. That will cause the gear and teeth to skip. They’re using phenolic plastic and when I checked mine there was no sign of damage to the mechanism. Enough means farther than you’d expect to have to loosen it.

On the the back a little while ago I popped the bungee cords out of their capture holes on the side away from the entrance for the film holder and put a new knot in them to increase the holding force. Big improvement. The front standard wobbles a bit when tightened down. I’m going to get a flat washer about as wide as the knob on the screw down ang glue it in place directly to the bottom of the knob to increase stability.

[csxcnj]

If you watch the BenHorne review he talks about how to better stabilize the front standard.

When I added a washer to my 4X5 Intrepid KS model it caused lessened thread engagement...

My 4X5 Intrepid also skipped teeth when wound out too far, changing extension holes worked.

Saw the Ben Horne vid. Will try that if the washer won’t work. The spindle on the 8x10 lock knob is pretty long and should be enough for solid engagement with a washer on there. Will test that befor I glue it in place.

[csxcnj]

I sent an inquiry to Intrepid about availability of a leaf spring back for the 8x10. This is their reply:

“On Jan 21, 2019, at 4:07 AM, Intrepid Camera <hello@theintrepidcamera.co.uk> wrote:

Hi Bob,

Yes we will be bringing out the next model of the 8x10 soon which will have a leaf spring system.

Best,

Naomi Davison

Digital Communications | Intrepid Camera Co.
intrepidcamera.co.uk | 01273 457 747 “

My reply to them was that it was very annoying to have just purchased the 8x10 with the bungee back and find out a much better back was going to be available so soon. I asked if intrepid would be offering any kind of discount to original backers to up grade to the leaf spring back.

When the 8x10 Kickstarter went past it’s funding goal by multitudes, as a reward Intrepid threw in a leveling bubble. Whoopie. Every other Kickstarter I’ve been a part of that exceeds goals by huge amounts showers you with rewards ie Lompgraphy. Intrepid doesn’t seem to see the value in doing that kind of thing. I’ll be very surprised if they give my question a positive response.

[Tin Can]

Intrepid 4X5 KS into the current model went through upgrades. I got the KS 4X5 and later sold it. No regrets.

Just as all products do.

Linhof changed their models over time and sometimes kept confusing naming. I like all my Linhof.

I will wait until I read a review of the Spring Back 8X10 Intrepid.

[csxcnj]

Heard back from Intrepid and original owners of the 8x10 can get the new version for 20% off when it becomes available.

Yes the 4x5 went through upgrades. What annoyes me is that they had the leaf spring technology in the works when they devloped the 8x10 and didn’t incorporate it in the the 8x10 from the start. Good luck selling the current bungee cord camera without taking a substantial loss on what will be a relatively unused camera to get the newer version. This new version of the 8x10 is coming so close to the original it makes me wonder why they just didn’t use the leaf spring back from the start.

The Intrepid people have a great entry level product but they’re not very strategic thinkers. I’ll be thinking long and hard before I every buy from them again. And I’ll be warning anyone who asked about a new product from them to wait since Intrepid will probably making an improved version before the new car smell is gone from the one you just bought.

[paulbarden]

Heard back from Intrepid and original owners of the 8x10 can get the new version for 20% off when it becomes available.

Yes the 4x5 went through upgrades. What annoyes me is that they had the leaf spring technology in the works when they devloped the 8x10 and didn’t incorporate it in the the 8x10 from the start. Good luck selling the current bungee cord camera without taking a substantial loss on what will be a relatively unused camera to get the newer version. This new version of the 8x10 is coming so close to the original it makes me wonder why they just didn’t use the leaf spring back from the start.

When I ordered the 8x10 in May, I asked if it would have the spring back and I was told it definitely would. When it finally arrived in October (yes, OCTOBER) It had the bungee back. I contacted Intrepid and was told they’d send me the spring back, but I have yet to receive one. I’ve given up any expectations at this point.

[Max Grew]

Heard back from Intrepid and original owners of the 8x10 can get the new version for 20% off when it becomes available.

Yes the 4x5 went through upgrades. What annoyes me is that they had the leaf spring technology in the works when they devloped the 8x10 and didn’t incorporate it in the the 8x10 from the start. Good luck selling the current bungee cord camera without taking a substantial loss on what will be a relatively unused camera to get the newer version. This new version of the 8x10 is coming so close to the original it makes me wonder why they just didn’t use the leaf spring back from the start.

The Intrepid people have a great entry level product but they’re not very strategic thinkers. I’ll be thinking long and hard before I every buy from them again. And I’ll be warning anyone who asked about a new product from them to wait since Intrepid will probably making an improved version before the new car smell is gone from the one you just bought.

Hi Bob, Naomi Just showed me your email but thought I would reply on here. We first launched the 8x10 in May 2017 and didn't start producing Leaf Spring backs until June 2018. So quite a gap between the two. Whilst we could have updated the Design of the 8x10 earlier, we waited a little bit for a few reasons. Firstly, due to the massive demand for our cameras, we had not had the time to properly go through all the user feedback and ideas until recently. Secondly If we had updated the design earlier there would have been complaints about it being too soon. Now two years on from the initial launch of the 8x10 and after having enough time to properly update the design we will be launching the new camera officially in May 2019. However, for people who have been ordering recently we have been informing them about the upgrade and asking if they would be happy waiting a week or so extra and receiving the upgraded version.

All in all we have tried to do this as fairly as possible, I appreciate that due to the delay on the Kickstarter some people have not had their cameras for a long amount of time but we have to update the camera at some point.

We manufacture in batches and a lot of the time we order parts in quantities of 500 to 1000, we do this to get a good price and that is a saving we pass on to customers. We are approaching the end of the packet for a lot of key 8x10 parts so, we either commit to another 12 -18 months of stock of the older design or we update. There is rarely a perfect option with stuff like this but I hope you can see that the choice we made was considered and somewhat strategic.

Let me know if you have any questions, Max

[pepeguitarra]

Just as all products do.

Linhof changed their models over time and sometimes kept confusing naming. I like all my Linhof.


Well, the tripod companies also keep changing model names every often, when in reality it is the same tripod.

[csxcnj]

Hi Bob, Naomi Just showed me your email but thought I would reply on here. We first launched the 8x10 in May 2017 and didn't start producing Leaf Spring backs until June 2018. So quite a gap between the two. Whilst we could have updated the Design of the 8x10 earlier, we waited a little bit for a few reasons. Firstly, due to the massive demand for our cameras, we had not had the time to properly go through all the user feedback and ideas until recently. Secondly If we had updated the design earlier there would have been complaints about it being too soon. Now two years on from the initial launch of the 8x10 and after having enough time to properly update the design we will be launching the new camera officially in May 2019. However, for people who have been ordering recently we have been informing them about the upgrade and asking if they would be happy waiting a week or so extra and receiving the upgraded version.

All in all we have tried to do this as fairly as possible, I appreciate that due to the delay on the Kickstarter some people have not had their cameras for a long amount of time but we have to update the camera at some point.

We manufacture in batches and a lot of the time we order parts in quantities of 500 to 1000, we do this to get a good price and that is a saving we pass on to customers. We are approaching the end of the packet for a lot of key 8x10 parts so, we either commit to another 12 -18 months of stock of the older design or we update. There is rarely a perfect option with stuff like this but I hope you can see that the choice we made was considered and somewhat strategic.

Let me know if you have any questions, Max

The problem for me is that it’s two years since the launch of the bungee 8x10 and I’ve only had mine for a couple of months
and now I hear there’s going to be a vastly improved one coming out. I’m sure for an increased price but worth it. Not one where you have work on the camera just to get the GG back to stay relatively tight and not sag a good 1/4” like I had to do with mine. (along with having to file the reducing lens board down to fit) Hopefully you can understand why I and others are annoyed by this announcement. Guess I’m a victim of bad timing and delays in production on Intrepid’s end. Live and learn.

[Tin Can]

Sorta the same, Gitzo was French made, now Italian made. Story as told by corporate winner... (https://www.manfrotto.us/gitzo/gitzo-world)

Different factories and workforce.


Well, the tripod companies also keep changing model names every often, when in reality it is the same tripod.

[Andrea Gazzoni]

Now two years on from the initial launch of the 8x10 and after having enough time to properly update the design we will be launching the new camera officially in May 2019

Max are you planning to upgrade the 8x10 to front standard independent rise and tilt controls like the 4x5 MK3 ones ?
thank you

[pepeguitarra]

It is the price to pay for supporting a kickstarter project. The recipients of the 4x5 Mk I received a very basic camera. I got the Mk II, which was better. I have used it couple of months and now, they have the Mk III, without the elastic bands and with independent controls for tilt and raise/fall. I contacted Intrepid, and the would no sell the parts for people to self-upgrade (very easy if you have the parts). They prefer you to buy the new model. Instead, I bought a Chamonix 45F2, which is three times the price of the Mk III, but it is a jewel to use. Still, I can use my Mk II, because it is really easy to use (except for the rear tilt, non existing). I am waiting for my 8x10, which will come up with the latest improvements somewhere by the end of February. I did buy it in October2018 or close to that date. Max told me that I would get the improved model.
-------------------

I just read Max posting on top, and realize the official lunch will be May 2019. I still hope to get mine in February.

[Max Grew]

The problem for me is that it’s two years since the launch of the bungee 8x10 and I’ve only had mine for a couple of months
and now I hear there’s going to be a vastly improved one coming out. I’m sure for an increased price but worth it. Not one where you have work on the camera just to get the GG back to stay relatively tight and not sag a good 1/4” like I had to do with mine. (along with having to file the reducing lens board down to fit) Hopefully you can understand why I and others are annoyed by this announcement. Guess I’m a victim of bad timing and delays in production on Intrepid’s end. Live and learn.

Hi Bob, I just checked the shipping records and yours shipped in May 2018, so by the time the new model comes out it will have been a year which is a fairly standard product cycle in many industries. I am sorry you feel like we have let you down though, we are looking into upgrade pathways and hopefully that will be possible.


Max are you planning to upgrade the 8x10 to front standard independent rise and tilt controls like the 4x5 MK3 ones ?
thank you

Hello, yes that is exactly what we are doing, it will be the same mechanism as is on the current 4x5 model :)


It is the price to pay for supporting a kickstarter project. The recipients of the 4x5 Mk I received a very basic camera. I got the Mk II, which was better. I have used it couple of months and now, they have the Mk III, without the elastic bands and with independent controls for tilt and raise/fall. I contacted Intrepid, and the would no sell the parts for people to self-upgrade (very easy if you have the parts). They prefer you to buy the new model. Instead, I bought a Chamonix 45F2, which is three times the price of the Mk III, but it is a jewel to use. Still, I can use my Mk II, because it is really easy to use (except for the rear tilt, non existing). I am waiting for my 8x10, which will come up with the latest improvements somewhere by the end of February. I did buy it in October2018 or close to that date. Max told me that I would get the improved model.
-------------------

I just read Max posting on top, and realize the official lunch will be May 2019. I still hope to get mine in February.

Hello Pepe, we are sorry you were not able to upgrade the MKII its not that we didn't want to sell people the parts but that it simply is not possible to add the new parts onto the older camera. You would have to completely replace the rear and front standard as the wooden parts have no space or mounting spots for the leaf springs or independent rise and fall. The ground glass holder on the MKII would also not work with leaf springs. If you did replace the front and rear standards though those new parts wouldn't properly fit with the base and you would need a new one and then you would basically just have a MKIII. The Chamonix is a lovely camera, glad to hear you are enjoying it

Best, Max

[Ozzz]

I'd like to get posted when the improved parts of the 8x10 become available (especially any improved front standards) for supporters of the older model(s) too. Will there be an official channel for the upgrade or would it just be a ask-and-see Max? Thanks.

[Andrea Gazzoni]

I also got a reply from Intrepid, they will not upgrade my 8x10 which is currently in their shop for repair. They just offer a 20% rebate if you buy the new model. Not so happy, after more than a year of wait for a camera with so many flaws...

[csxcnj]

Hi Bob, I just checked the shipping records and yours shipped in May 2018, so by the time the new model comes out it will have been a year which is a fairly standard product cycle in many industries. I am sorry you feel like we have let you down though, we are looking into upgrade pathways and hopefully that will be possible.



Hello, yes that is exactly what we are doing, it will be the same mechanism as is on the current 4x5 model :)



Hello Pepe, we are sorry you were not able to upgrade the MKII its not that we didn't want to sell people the parts but that it simply is not possible to add the new parts onto the older camera. You would have to completely replace the rear and front standard as the wooden parts have no space or mounting spots for the leaf springs or independent rise and fall. The ground glass holder on the MKII would also not work with leaf springs. If you did replace the front and rear standards though those new parts wouldn't properly fit with the base and you would need a new one and then you would basically just have a MKIII. The Chamonix is a lovely camera, glad to hear you are enjoying it

Best, Max
You’re right on that. Arrived end of May. Just feels like I’ve only just had it a short time. And in LF camera life it is. I admire what lntrepid has done in revitalizing LF photography by bringing serviceable low priced cameras to market. You haven’t let me down. It’s just timing. And I was venting. Still annoying and frustrating but I’ll get over it. I will still be warning anyone who asks about getting a new product from you that if it’s a first version they will be serving as Beta testers for Intrepid.

[rdeloe]

I don't have any skin in this game, but I do want to say that I always appreciate it when the maker/vendor of a product gets involved in a forum like this to explain and help. I looked at the Intrepid 4x5 MKIII and bought a Wista 45VX instead because I like detents and parts that click firmly into place! However, if I ever decide to move up to 8x10 I'll be taking a close look at the Intrepid (hopefully MKII or MKIII by then). An Intrepid 5x7 would be really nice too, just saying...

[dbramley]

Got this email today, no photos out of respect for their request.


Hello,

Your order has been automatically upgraded to the next generation model of the Intrepid 8x10 camera!

The first batch has gone in production and is looking great so here are some photos of the new features and improvements.


Independent rise/fall and tilt/swing controls on the front standard

High tension leaf spring clips for the ground glass

Lightweight and sleek with a slim aluminium base

Rear focusing with linear guides
The linear guides and new base make the camera much sturdier than previous models so even with the bellows fully extended and a heavy lens it will stay secure. And it's still the lightest 8x10 camera in the world at just 2.5kg.

As we haven't yet announced the camera officially we would appreciate it if you keep these photos to yourself for now..!

All the best,

The Intrepid Team

[Michael Kadillak]

Got the identical email as it appears my 8x10 is similarly in production. As soon s I hear about the upgrades I was in. The aluminum base plate was not expected but it looks like a very good decision on their part to go that direction. Hope to get the camera in the next few weeks and the wait has not been bad at all.

[pepeguitarra]

I have four 4x5 cameras (2 Calumet, one Intrepid 4x5, and one Chamonix acquired recently). The Calumets have rail and are the best cameras, but, they are super heavy. So, I use them around the house. The Chamonix is a charm, with all the movements I wanted and a super long bellows. The intrepid is the lightest and simplest of all. However, I use the Intrepid the most. I can carry it anywhere and the adjustments have become intuitive with them (except for the rear tilt for some vast landscapes, I can handle most of every need that comes up). I really want film and large format specially to survive and to flourish, that is the reason I supported the Intrepid. As you will see, this company will bring the use of film to the top. My suggestion at the beginning was to team up with Ilford, Kodak, and all the film, and chemical manufacturers to advance the use of film among the youth. They seem to be doing that and using the social media to entice younger generations that will replace the current aging group of large format camera owners. Good for Intrepid and good for large format photography. Now, go and buy one of the Intrepid cameras, they are so affordable.

[Tin Can]

The Intrepid website has no information about the 8X10 upgrade. No pictures, no model change.

I am not ordering one until they supply details to all potential buyers.

I wood also like to see a 'test' of one from the usual suspects, ASAP!

[pepeguitarra]

Trust me, you will not go wrong with the new 8x10.

[paulbarden]

Trust me, you will not go wrong with the new 8x10.

Bear in mind that some of us have had very different experiences with the 8X10 Intrepid, experiences that were not ideal. I'm sure there will be some here who think this is just whining, but when I buy a camera, I do expect certain things, like: the focusing rail mechanism actually works (Entire base had to be replaced), magnets glued into the frame don't pull out when you change the back orientation, the lens board doesn't warp into a banana shape, and pieces don't fall off the camera.

[Gordon Lucas]

I was one of those guys who bought an Intrepid 4x5 and an 8x10 at the same time. Frankly, I dislike the 8x10 as much as I like the 4x5, which is a keeper. The 8x10 is flimsy and has soured me on my already negative 8x10 experience. I'll be going back to my 5x7 as my largest camera, and getting rid of all of my 8x10 equipment. It just hasn't worked for me for a variety of reasons but mostly because it's a specialist format that needs a commitment I simply don't have. My Cambo 8x10 is a solid machine so no problems there, but I really can't recommend the Intrepid in 8x10 . . . . it just hasn't the solidity or the design suitablity within the field camera category I was looking for - their 4x5 camera is much better and more a propos within the category, in spite of their family resemblance.

[pepeguitarra]

I think I had the same opinion of the 8x10 Mk I. However, the Mk II seems to be in the right track, that is why ordered mine. Intrepid has taken the comments and reviews of almost everyone to make this second version a real jewel.

[Ozzz]

Hello Max,

Hope you're also reading this message - I was shooting landscape on the other day and realised that the cord-tension 8x10 back does have a little bit of play after inserting the film holder, i.e. after inserting the film holder registering the holder correctly to the slot, I could still push the holder forward still. That means if I let loose my hand, the lens-film plane distance is increasing. The net result is that the landscape at infinity I focused on the ground glass was blurred, and the foreground became the unintended sharp subject. I had a wasted E6 slide and I hope not to experience that again (granted, the focal length I used was 150mm so that's rather sensitive to film-plane distance changes)

Is mine an isolated case or is this a known issue that pushes the design of the intrepid 8x10 to be operated by spring tension? Would love to know what the other users think about this.

Now more than ever I am very inclined to know of the ways that I could switch my back to the spring tension back, be it a factory replacement or subsidised purchase (I could live with the other parts of the MK I).

Does anyone else on the forum experience the same issue as I do? I shoot using a factory new Toyo film holder so I suppose it's not the holder that was at issue.

[paulbarden]

I think I had the same opinion of the 8x10 Mk I. However, the Mk II seems to be in the right track, that is why ordered mine. Intrepid has taken the comments and reviews of almost everyone to make this second version a real jewel.

Let us know what you think once you receive yours.

[pepeguitarra]

By minute 10, you will see the pics of the new 8x10. Check the video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mac5SRxEN7Y

[Tin Can]

That looks great!

I will still wait for a user review.


By minute 10, you will see the pics of the new 8x10. Check the video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mac5SRxEN7Y

[paulbarden]

By minute 10, you will see the pics of the new 8x10. Check the video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mac5SRxEN7Y

But that is not YOUR camera, and it is not a review. I want to know what YOU think once you've had a chance to use it.

[Max Grew]

Hello Max,

Hope you're also reading this message - I was shooting landscape on the other day and realised that the cord-tension 8x10 back does have a little bit of play after inserting the film holder, i.e. after inserting the film holder registering the holder correctly to the slot, I could still push the holder forward still. That means if I let loose my hand, the lens-film plane distance is increasing. The net result is that the landscape at infinity I focused on the ground glass was blurred, and the foreground became the unintended sharp subject. I had a wasted E6 slide and I hope not to experience that again (granted, the focal length I used was 150mm so that's rather sensitive to film-plane distance changes)

Is mine an isolated case or is this a known issue that pushes the design of the intrepid 8x10 to be operated by spring tension? Would love to know what the other users think about this.

Now more than ever I am very inclined to know of the ways that I could switch my back to the spring tension back, be it a factory replacement or subsidised purchase (I could live with the other parts of the MK I).

Does anyone else on the forum experience the same issue as I do? I shoot using a factory new Toyo film holder so I suppose it's not the holder that was at issue.

Hello, sorry to hear about the issue with tension on the back, this is the first time I have heard of the tension not being enough when the film holder is inserted and as you point out it is not a problem at all on the new leaf spring design. More than happy to get the problem sorted out for you and we have a couple of options of how to do that.

1. Repair, if you are able to send the camera back into us we will be happy to get it fully working again and send it back out to you, as the fault is clearly nothing to do with you we will be more than happy to repair for free and refund you the postage cost of getting it to us (this is our standard warranty on all cameras)

2. Upgrade, Normally we would offer a 20% discount to owners of the current 8x10 but seeing as you haver had a fault with your camera we can up that to 30%

I would recommend sending us a quick email if you have any questions or if you wish to go ahead with any of the options, Sorry again that you lost a sheet of E6!

Best, Max

[Max Grew]

P.S. Here are some pictures of the new 8x10, whilst not officially out until April any orders placed now for the current 8x10 model will be automatically upgraded to the new one you see bellow

188114

188115

The main upgrades are:

- Aluminium Base, very rigid and stable whilst still lightweight.
- Massive increase to rigidity of front standard.
- Linear focusing rails, camera stays rigid even at full extension with a heavy lens.
- Leaf spring back.
- Independent Rise/Fall and Tilt controls on front standard.
- Rear focusing on a T8 Lead screw, this makes focusing very accurate with tiny adjustments being easy to make and lock down
- Still only £480/$520/€555

Let me know if you have any questions, Max

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

Congratulations. Rear focusing by a threaded rod, a completely detachable back and a solid aluminium base are very desirable features.

[Max Grew]

Congratulations. Rear focusing by a threaded rod, a completely detachable back and a solid aluminium base are very desirable features.

Thanks Daniel! We are really happy with how the camera came out

[CGoodier]

Looks good. Is there any way to use the new back on the old camera, with modifications? Also, can you make parts or packages of parts available to tinkerers and builders like me? Great work, thanks.

[pepeguitarra]

P.S. Here are some pictures of the new 8x10, whilst not officially out until April any orders placed now for the current 8x10 model will be automatically upgraded to the new one you see bellow

188114

188115

The main upgrades are:

- Aluminium Base, very rigid and stable whilst still lightweight.
- Massive increase to rigidity of front standard.
- Linear focusing rails, camera stays rigid even at full extension with a heavy lens.
- Leaf spring back.
- Independent Rise/Fall and Tilt controls on front standard.
- Rear focusing on a T8 Lead screw, this makes focusing very accurate with tiny adjustments being easy to make and lock down
- Still only £480/$520/€555

Let me know if you have any questions, Max


It looks good.

[Max Grew]

Looks good. Is there any way to use the new back on the old camera, with modifications? Also, can you make parts or packages of parts available to tinkerers and builders like me? Great work, thanks.

Hello, I think in the future this is something we would love to do, we are still swamped with demand and for now are concentrating on keeping the product line simple, consistent and high quality. Once we have got everything with the new Cameras and the enlarger ticking along nicely we will be looking into kits, upgrades etc etc. Its a real testament to the strength of the community that even with 10 of us working at Intrepid now and shipping 60 - 100 cameras a month we still cant keep up!

[Tin Can]

Max, I will be buying your new 8X10 after I see a review.

It looks really good to me.

Keep the faith!

Very impressive to startup and succeeded in a cottage industry!


Hello, I think in the future this is something we would love to do, we are still swamped with demand and for now are concentrating on keeping the product line simple, consistent and high quality. Once we have got everything with the new Cameras and the enlarger ticking along nicely we will be looking into kits, upgrades etc etc. Its a real testament to the strength of the community that even with 10 of us working at Intrepid now and shipping 60 - 100 cameras a month we still cant keep up!

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

concentrating on keeping the product line simple, consistent and high quality

This is the key.

Be radical.

The camera is only a focusing rail with a threaded rod, a slider, perhaps a slider extension.

It's not necessary to produce different sliders for different cameras.

It's better to produce only one type of focusing slider, like the Sinar bench.

On the upper plywood slider you clamp the aluminium/plywood front standard (Linhof lensboard size). Or an additional extension board with the front standard.

On the lower aluminium base of the focusing bed you mount the different aluminium/plywood rear standards with their backs. 2x3 (Mamiya G Adapter size), 4x5 (Sinar F groundglass holder size), 5x7 (Sinar), 8x10 (Sinar) ...

Different bellows, changeable, standardization of the back dimensions, adapter plates, an additional stabilizing detachable telescope clamp to connect the standards ...

Regards

[Corran]

P.S. Here are some pictures of the new 8x10, whilst not officially out until April any orders placed now for the current 8x10 model will be automatically upgraded to the new one you see bellow

188114

188115

The main upgrades are:

- Aluminium Base, very rigid and stable whilst still lightweight.
- Massive increase to rigidity of front standard.
- Linear focusing rails, camera stays rigid even at full extension with a heavy lens.
- Leaf spring back.
- Independent Rise/Fall and Tilt controls on front standard.
- Rear focusing on a T8 Lead screw, this makes focusing very accurate with tiny adjustments being easy to make and lock down
- Still only £480/$520/€555

Let me know if you have any questions, Max

And what is the weight. now?

[Max Grew]

And what is the weight. now?

Hello, It is 2.2kg / 4.85 Pounds

Let me know if you want any more info, we have now shipped the first 15 of this model with some more going out next week.

- Max

[Fred L]

Can the camera be closed with the back in landscape orientation ? On my camera (Gen 1), the right strut interferes with the top 'ear' and prevents closing properly. Really find it annoying needing to place it in portrait, just to pack it up.

[Corran]

Hello, It is 2.2kg / 4.85 Pounds

Let me know if you want any more info, we have now shipped the first 15 of this model with some more going out next week.

- Max

Thanks Max. I was curious as I assumed the changes in design would eventually cause the weight to bloat, but it seems you've kept it really lightweight. I would totally be a customer if I hadn't already purchased one of the finest and lightest 8x10 cameras out there a few years ago.

[Max Grew]

Can the camera be closed with the back in landscape orientation ? On my camera (Gen 1), the right strut interferes with the top 'ear' and prevents closing properly. Really find it annoying needing to place it in portrait, just to pack it up.

Hi Fred, Yes the camera can close in both landscape and portrait positions

- Max

[pepeguitarra]

Hi Fred, Yes the camera can close in both landscape and portrait positions

- Max. This is even better news.

[CGoodier]

... i.e. after inserting the film holder registering the holder correctly to the slot, I could still push the holder forward still. That means if I let loose my hand, the lens-film plane distance is increasing. The net result is that the landscape at infinity I focused on the ground glass was blurred, and the foreground became the unintended sharp subject...

I'm so glad you brought this up... it seems to be slightly worse at the bottom than top, and on the side where the slide is removed. Maybe as great as a mm or so.

I'd noticed that the focal plane in photos was much nearer than I'd seen on the glass and assumed the registration was off. So I got out a micrometer and shimmed the glass holder with some paper, but the problem didn't go away.

Then someone else noticed on a transparency that details at infinity on the left, looking at the emulsion surface, were slightly out of focus compared to details on the right. This on photos where my notes showed no swing used.

Thinking this was user error, but now having placed a holder in the back and pressing it to the camera I can see there's a possible rational explanation.

[Pfsor]

I'd noticed that the focal plane in photos was much nearer than I'd seen on the glass and assumed the registration was off. So I got out a micrometer and shimmed the glass holder with some paper, but the problem didn't go away.


Paper? Goodness no! When you have gone to such a length of effort with micrometer measuring why sell it off with paper shims? Paper is a strongly hygroscopic material - when left in humid atmosphere it absorbs moisture, swells up and changes its dimensions and even a shape. No wonder you fell into future problems.
Sheet plastic would be a better solution even if not ideal but easier to find in the right thickness in amateur use than classical metal shims.

[CGoodier]

Paper? Goodness no!

Yeah, true, actually I used a gloss card, but you're right. It was a stop gap testing measure before using some accurate thicknesses of HIPS plastic card I have.

One solution for increasing the tension might be to use a twin hole bean toggle for the 3mm elastic. I'll try that.

[pepeguitarra]

It seems like the old cameras (Korona View) has a similar problem. The slot where the film holder protruding edge fits was left too wide, so as to accommodate different types of holders. Besides the tension of the springs is very weak. So, when pulling the dark slide, the film holder sometimes detached from the back of the camera and leaked light. I crazy glued an extra piece of wood (2mmx1.5mm) along the slot, sanded and painted. I also added an extra screw to tighten the spring. I have not done that with the Intrepid 4x5 Mk II, because the slot is just right, and the tension of the bunny cords is also fine.

[Andrew O'Neill]

What a cool looking, very affordable camera!

[Max Grew]

Ben Horne has done a quick first look video showing off the new 8x10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yLkKdhQNeI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yLkKdhQNeI

[Peter De Smidt]

Looks good! Are the min/max extension the same as the old camera?

[Max Grew]

Looks good! Are the min/max extension the same as the old camera?

Hi Peter, Thanks! and yes they are - Max

[Andrea Gazzoni]

Hi Max, just curious, how difficult would it be to make "universal" bellows like the ones on the Chamonix cameras?
I suspect it is not much more complicated than removing the last few stiffeners inside the bellows.
This would allow more movements with the shorter focal lenghts, right now the bellows is quite compressed with a 120mm lens and dropping the front standard to shoot the lower 4x10 frame is hard.
btw, huge improvement on the focusing mechanism
thank you

[minh0204]

Intrepid's bellows material is quite thick and "industrial" so if they make the universal front it wouldn't have helped much. A replaceable bellows adds cost and complexity to the camera. You'll be better off using a recessed lens board.

You don't have to drop the front to shoot the lower half, just rotate the back to the opposite side (inserting film from the left, instead of right, for example). Framing is retained.

[Andrea Gazzoni]

I do use a recessed...dropping the front is a need, as I shoot both 4x10 frames with the half darkslide method

[minh0204]

dropping the front is a need, as I shoot both 4x10 frames with the half darkslide method

Check what I wrote more closely. If you rotate the back to the opposite side, you will always frame and shoot the upper half of your 8x10.

[Andrea Gazzoni]

Let me explain: I shoot both 4x10 frames in the same position, low or high.
I do rotate the back to the opposite side once the first shot is taken to shoot frame #2.
I lower (or upper, as composition dictates) the front standard before, for framing, to have the lens centered on the half frame.
This is useful with a lens having just 312mm of coverage. Setting the front standard up or down is the same, you need the bellows to cooperate...

[purple57]

looks like an improved 8x10 and a little added weight is an plus imo. (Wished they made a 5x7).

[Corran]

Andrea, I had the same issue with movements on all 8x10 cameras I have used when trying to use a half darkslide with short lenses. I recently found a Chamonix 4x10 holder that fits 8x10 cameras. It's of course less convenient but solves the problem. Just thought I would mention it.

[Graham Patterson]

On the 8x10 (Kickstarter version), the bellows start to intrude on the edge of the frame with focal lengths below around 210mm if you are using a lot of rise/shift for 4x10 (or 5x8/5x7 ) in camera masking. There is enough shift/rise to center the lens on a masked format, but bellows stiffness and intrusion into the image area with shorter focal lengths (for the format) is the practical limitation. To be fair, the camera was not really designed for this.\

[DaCh]

They had the new 8x10 for sale at the NEC photo show, so I bought one. I have made two lens panels and it is now ready to use. It looks really good and feels nice, definitely a great improvement. I will let you know how I get on with it.

[Peter De Smidt]

I just ordered one. Now the waiting begins!

[shoshin]

I just ordered one. Now the waiting begins!

Ordered mine at the beginning of february. Still waiting, no message since they told me that I will get the MKII (mid february).

[Michael Kadillak]

I just ordered one. Now the waiting begins!

You are just going to have to be patient because that attribute is integral for the process with Intrepid.

I ordered an 8x10 camera from Intrepid on October 24, 2018 and hope the email I got about an end of April 2019 delivery is factually accurate. The good news is they are selling a lot of cameras. The bad news is the staff can only kick out so many cameras per day / week. I was thinking of sending them a case or two of Red Bull to help them with product output (just kidding).

[pepeguitarra]

..... October 24, 2018 and hope the email I got about an end of April 2019 delivery is factually accurate. (just kidding).

They probably misplaced your order. They delivered the ones ordered in November and December/2018 in March/19. I wish I had waited a bit until April to have a flawless camera. Instead, I got one I am not 100 percent happy. Of course, comparing it to the Chamonix is not fair.

However, I now have an 8x10 Century and a 8x10 Kodak 2D Eastman that are so unbelievable accurate and perfect that I may end up donating the Intrepid. The good thing about it is the light weight. However, the Century weights just one and a half more pound only than the Intrepid.

[Michael Kadillak]

They probably misplaced your order. They delivered the ones ordered in November and December/2018 in March/19. I wish I had waited a bit until April to have a flawless camera. Instead, I got one I am not 100 percent happy. Of course, comparing it to the Chamonix is not fair.

However, I now have an 8x10 Century and a 8x10 Kodak 2D Eastman that are so unbelievable accurate and perfect that I may end up donating the Intrepid. The good thing about it is the light weight. However, the Century weights just one and a half more than the Intrepid.

Whatever they did or did not do with my order is out of my hands. As long as I get the camera with the most recent model upgrades I will be good to go. It will be here when it gets here. Like you I have a Toyo 810M, a Canham 8x10 woodie, a like new black Calumet C1 as well as a Linhof triplex Color Karden 8x10. The Intrepid will be the hiking/packing camera.

[klw]

I wish I had waited a bit until April to have a flawless camera. Instead, I got one I am not 100 percent happy.


… I may end up donating the Intrepid.

What is wrong?

[pepeguitarra]

Several detail on manufacture/assembly. A bit of better care and less speed to put together the pieces. Too many to mentioned. The last one is the bellows glued skewed , so the from standard does not stay level unless it is tied up with the knobs. I can use it, but unlike my Chamonix, which almost sets up by itself. The springs of the back, one was screwed up side down. I removed and put it back. However, every time I try to open to insert the holder, the spring goes off the back. The problem is one spring was drilled and screwed properly. The other one was a bit off. I have now to remove the springs and drill two holes in the metal, and two holes in the wood. I cannot use the existing two holes, they are way off. Couple of the plastic "stops" that control the tilt of the front standard came off unglued. They told me to glue it back, but it can't be done easily without disassembly the front standard. I cannot do that because the bellows is nailed to it or glued it. So, I had to cut the two pieces so the could fit and glue them. The crazy glue dries fast, so it was not a pretty job, so they protrude when the should not. The gaffer tape is abundant behind the front standard. They glued the bellows and to make sure and blacken the rear of the front standard, they covered it with gaffer tape. The camera feels solid, and the metal bottom provides some stability. The camera can hold a heavy lens without instilling fear. I have used it and the pictures came fine. It is just a bunch of details that I hope they take care for the future cameras. I hope the enlarger I paid for already comes out useful.

[Andrea Gazzoni]

Let's hope Intrepid is still reading this thread and are able to address the issues before the next batches are shipped out

[Peter De Smidt]

Oh, boy. That doesn't sound good.

[Fred L]

Several detail on manufacture/assembly...
wow, that's quite a collection of issues and I'd probably have sent it back.yup, sounds like they rushed that one off the floor.

Aside from lopping off one ear of my Gen 1, I'm more or less happy with the camera, and the weight was the only reason I got it as it will be more amenable to backpacking, than my Zone VI beast.

[pepeguitarra]

They are small issues for a person who is familiar with wood working, so I would not return it if I can fix it. It will cost more to me and to them to do it. I just passed the comments to them for their consideration. I am sure the next ones will come fine.

P.S.: I do support their effort to promote lighter and lower cost cameras (that is why I bought an 4x5 MkII that came with problems also that were fixed by sending a replacement back. I also bought the 8x10 MkII with a reduction to 4x5, which they have not designed yet, and the 4x5 enlarger). I also like the fact that they are kind of teaming with Ilford (the loyal film producer) to promote LF photography. I also wish the best to them, and I understand that by publishing my comments publicly, it may be considered a bad thing. However, it will be a good thing because they will be forced to improve. I would not like them to gradually start shifting work to China.

[Tin Can]

Handmade in Britain!

I have fiddled many British motorbikes where nearly every part was hand fitted, which means every part is custom...

I will wait for an independent review on youtube with extensive closeup images of all details before ordering a new Intrepid 8X10.

and they put the product on their website! with detailed pics...

I notice they have put a field shot of the item on their intro image, not good enough advertising, the guy looks bemused

2 weeks ago they had no picture of the 8X10 back

Perhaps emulate BSA advertising, (https://www.google.com/search?q=vintage+bsa+motorcycle+ads&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=zh18GR7X3OtxOM%253A%252Cfbvjy8WF64ixfM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kT6KqcGsx2zHcuOeLMUGGceJMAb4g&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiek768_rPhAhWLTd8KHU6VCzcQ9QEwBHoECAYQDA#imgrc=zh18GR7X3OtxOM:) which sold me as a teenager on British motorbikes...

[Peter De Smidt]

Well, my first car was a Triumph TR7. I hope that experience isn't indicative of what to expect with the new camera.

[Tin Can]

The first cars I 'fixed' at age 17 were well worn, an Austin Healey 100/4 and a Triumph TR4. Our plan was to get them running and right after HS graduation drive them from Chicago straight to the California beaches.

The $100 Healey never went anywhere. The TR4 took off without a working clutch. We doubled clutched it to Texas where we finally found a clutch slave cylinder in a junkyard. Onwards, to the promised land. We never put the top up and refueled with a 5 gallon can while driving.

First thing we did was run into the sea and body surf...


Well, my first car was a Triumph TR7. I hope that experience isn't indicative of what to expect with the new camera.

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

I'd probably have sent it back.

Like Brexit: resubmission of the botch costs another pile of money, and you will wait for another few months for another frustrating outcome ...

[Tin Can]

At least we can watch a movie about how it used to be done.

Gandolfi History DVD. (https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?151484-Gandolfi-Film-now-available-on-DVD)

[pepeguitarra]

And how is it still done by some: Titan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72eKejgO6eQ)

[Max Grew]

All details and more images of the MK2 up on the site now: https://intrepidcamera.co.uk/products/intrepid-8x10-camera

[Tin Can]

Much better Max!


All details and more images of the MK2 up on the site now: https://intrepidcamera.co.uk/products/intrepid-8x10-camera

[paulbarden]

I think I had the same opinion of the 8x10 Mk I. However, the Mk II seems to be in the right track, that is why ordered mine. Intrepid has taken the comments and reviews of almost everyone to make this second version a real jewel.

And do you still consider the Intrepid 8x10 “a real jewel” now that you’ve received one?

Quality control continues to be a lingering issue with the Intrepid 8x10. Even after they replaced the entire base/focusing gear assembly, the focus mechanism is unreliable once you have it extended more than halfway out (skips teeth, gears grind). I can only imagine this will become more of an issue with age/use, as the plastic components are clearly not going to age well. I find the camera unpleasant to use, given the issues and the sense of fragility of the build, so I may donate it to some student/teaching situation.

I find my camera to be the result of hasty production: it demonstrates lack of quality control, something Intrepid really needs to attend to. I cannot recommend the Intrepid over a similarly affordable 8x10 such as an old Kodak 2D.

[pepeguitarra]

And do you still consider the Intrepid 8x10 “a real jewel” now that you’ve received one?

Quality control continues to be a lingering issue with the Intrepid 8x10. Even after they replaced the entire base/focusing gear assembly, the focus mechanism is unreliable once you have it extended more than halfway out (skips teeth, gears grind). I can only imagine this will become more of an issue with age/use, as the plastic components are clearly not going to age well. I find the camera unpleasant to use, given the issues and the sense of fragility of the build, so I may donate it to some student/teaching situation.

I find my camera to be the result of hasty production: it demonstrates lack of quality control, something Intrepid really needs to attend to. I cannot recommend the Intrepid over a similarly affordable 8x10 such as an old Kodak 2D.

I agree that I support the effort, but I also believe that Intrepid can do better. Due to the quick grow, I think Max should not be making cameras and managing the place. They should have a manager to handle the business, marketing, etc., and an operations manager to consider an improved product. I recently purchased an old wooden camera 4x5 (1919) and an old 8x10 (1930s?), which I refurbished, and I am super happy with them. I am using the Intrepid only for cases where I dont mind it getting lost and because of the light weight.

[Roger Thoms]

Well, my first car was a Triumph TR7. I hope that experience isn't indicative of what to expect with the new camera.

No electrical on an Intrepid so you should be miles ahead. :)

Roger

[Peter De Smidt]

Yeah, Roger. If it says "Lucas" on it anywhere....

[Tin Can]

AKA Prince of Darkness


Yeah, Roger. If it says "Lucas" on it anywhere....

[Roger Thoms]

Yeah, Roger. If it says "Lucas" on it anywhere....


AKA Prince of Darkness

:)

[RisaH]

Hi - first-time poster, duplicating a post I just made to the FB group to get some traction...If there is a separate thread for MKII 8x10 I did not see it (please link if so, thanks)...

I'm thrilled my 2nd gen. 8x10 arrived yesterday. I'm having some challenges seating and unseating the film holder. It catches on the way in and needs some serious jiggling to insert, and also needs some serious jiggling to remove - no doubt this unsettles the camera position (esp. if the tripod connection is not rock solid). The top spring arm pops off the back if too aggressive (though re-seats without much fuss).

Does anyone have tips or tricks for smoother film holder insertion/removal?

Also, though Ben's video of the first MKII showed the rear standard magnets on the inside, mine are on the outside and I wonder if this was a wholesale production change.

Thanks.

[Peter De Smidt]

Maybe make a video of the problem?

[RisaH]

Hi again - here's a short clip... I am getting the hang of it, but that spring... (also, please disregard the flimsy tripod... I am on a short trip and forgot to bring a tripod so had to 'borrow' one from the local camera shop just to be able to play around, would never shoot with this!)
Link (http://risahorowitz.com/projects/random-video/RH-8-10-load.MOV) to video

or http://risahorowitz.com/projects/random-video/RH-8-10-load.MOV

[dasBlute]

I've had one now for a year, and use it as much as any camera I have. It is great for hiking, and gives one a nice entrance into 8x10.
It's limitations are acceptable to me. It will never hold a 6 pound lens on the front, or a do well with really long lens [I shoot 210mm/300mm].
It's affected by wind. Getting everything square takes some fiddling. Rotating the back is a little slow. It's wood, you have to treat it gingerly.
You can't crank all the knobs down like the dickens to make it 'sturdier', you let it settle.

It weighs about 3 lbs. For it's price point and target usage, it hits it pretty well, imho.

-Tim

some pics I've taken with it: https://www.flickr.com/photos/stormiticus/tags/intrepid/

[pepeguitarra]

If I were to buy a camera based on your photos, I would buy the Intrepid 8x10 immediately. I think it is more like 5.7 pounds of weight.

[Michael Kadillak]

All details and more images of the MK2 up on the site now: https://intrepidcamera.co.uk/products/intrepid-8x10-camera

Pleased to receive my Intrepid 8x10 camera in the mail today. Unfortunately it arrived with the ground glass in about 50 pieces not just cracked. Just sent Naomi an email about getting a replacement for the ground glass. Suggestion for shipping these cameras. Get a slightly larger box if possible on the height proportion. It is fine to wrap the camera in bubble wrap but add a piece of masonite (rigid fiber board which is cheap) to the top and bottom of the box on top / or outside of the bubble wrap and this should provide the necessary rigidity to prevent the ground glass from taking one for the team. Essentially this would protect the contents (ie the ground glass) from the edge of another box contacting it and pushing through the bubble wrap.

The camera looks great. The screw focus seems solid, the hinges for taking the back off and going in an alternative orientation is fabulous. All in all I can't wait to get it into the field. Thanks Max and your team for bringing this camera into the market.

[Fred L]

If you have the metal spring back, consider yourself lucky. I have Gen 1 with the bungees and it's a pita to insert holders. The bungee allows movement in several axis and has led to one misinsert and a wasted sheet. I should have checked but still...

It's a light packing camera (which is great) but it won't be seeing major duty.

afaik, any LF FB groups are NOT connected to this forum. just an fyi, even though there's lots of member overlap

[pepeguitarra]

I received the back reduction from 8x10 to 4x5. It is very well made, and works as a silk glove in my hands. Wonderful job by Intrepid right there. It comes with the metal springs.

[RisaH]

I received the back reduction from 8x10 to 4x5. It is very well made, and works as a silk glove in my hands. Wonderful job by Intrepid right there. It comes with the metal springs.

Yes - I got the same reducing back, and sort of wish the 8x10 used the same mechanism. I wonder how much more weight and cost it would add to the MKII.

[Andrea Gazzoni]

Hi - first-time poster, duplicating a post I just made to the FB group to get some traction...If there is a separate thread for MKII 8x10 I did not see it (please link if so, thanks)...

I'm thrilled my 2nd gen. 8x10 arrived yesterday. I'm having some challenges seating and unseating the film holder. It catches on the way in and needs some serious jiggling to insert, and also needs some serious jiggling to remove - no doubt this unsettles the camera position (esp. if the tripod connection is not rock solid). The top spring arm pops off the back if too aggressive (though re-seats without much fuss).

Does anyone have tips or tricks for smoother film holder insertion/removal?

Also, though Ben's video of the first MKII showed the rear standard magnets on the inside, mine are on the outside and I wonder if this was a wholesale production change.

Thanks.

same here, almost impossible to keep the back in position when inserting/removing the film holders.
tried with different vintage film holders.
the older ones are plain unusable with this camera: if you succed to open the back and remove the holder, the spring assembly pops off.
the newer plastic ones do however pose more than an issue with the unwanted movement you end imparting to the back.
I wonder how this passed any testing before coming to market.
Max/Intrepid please chime in. I also sent you an email with a clip of the camera in action.

[pepeguitarra]

"The top spring arm pops off the back if too aggressive (though re-seats without much fuss). "


same here, almost impossible to keep the back in position when inserting/removing the film holders.
tried with different vintage film holders.
the older ones are plain unusable with this camera: if you succed to open the back and remove the holder, the spring assembly pops off.
the newer plastic ones do however pose more than an issue with the unwanted movement you end imparting to the back.
I wonder how this passed any testing before coming to market.
Max/Intrepid please chime in. I also sent you an email with a clip of the camera in action.

I had the same problem with the springs. The problem is that the holes for the screws were drilled misaligned. I don't know if the holes for the screws are drilled by computer, or using a template, but it should be easy to correct during production. Below are some pics of how I added two screws to stop the spring from going away from the back. Not sure how much it will last, since the screws I planted are directly on the wood, while the ones they put are inside a metal receptacle.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47943077901_ede4c3854a.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2g3yNKp)20190527_074218 (https://flic.kr/p/2g3yNKp) by Palenquero Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palenquero/), on Flickr


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47943078591_c8b413b0ca.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2g3yNXi)20190527_074156 (https://flic.kr/p/2g3yNXi) by Palenquero Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palenquero/), on Flickr


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47943059813_f691fa0d72.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2g3yHnx)20190527_074150 (https://flic.kr/p/2g3yHnx) by Palenquero Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palenquero/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47943078346_03efa4b2a6.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2g3yNT5)20190527_074140 (https://flic.kr/p/2g3yNT5) by Palenquero Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palenquero/), on Flickr

[Andrea Gazzoni]

any effect of this on the stiffness of the springs? I mean, are you able to insert/remove the film holders without effort?

[pepeguitarra]

any effect of this on the stiffness of the springs? I mean, are you able to insert/remove the film holders without effort?

It improved the removal and the insertion of the holder. To remove the holder, do not try to remove the holder alone. Grab the holder with the back and separate it first from the rear standard, then pull it out. It will come easily. The back does not have a security trap (cut out) for the folder, there is only one on the side of the rear standard.

[RisaH]

Hey there, thank you for this pics. So, basically, did you reposition the screws so that the springs sit closer to the ground glass frame? I noticed several millimetres of gap on my camera and wondered if I might adjust so that they are closer, but haven't gotten so far as to determine where to reposition the screws.

Also... have you placed plexi or other plastic on top of the entire back assembly, it looks like you have placed something on top of the spring arms.

Cheers,
Risa

[Fred L]

that's a ground glass protector

[pepeguitarra]

Hey there, thank you for this pics. So, basically, did you reposition the screws so that the springs sit closer to the ground glass frame? I noticed several millimetres of gap on my camera and wondered if I might adjust so that they are closer, but haven't gotten so far as to determine where to reposition the screws.

Also... have you placed plexi or other plastic on top of the entire back assembly, it looks like you have placed something on top of the spring arms.

Cheers,
Risa
I did not reposition the factory screws because they are screwing in a metal receptacle or something that holds them. Instead, I forced the spring towards the glass and placed a brass screw on the wood to limit the movement. Notice that after that, the springs are no longer aligned. Notice the brass screw in both sides, although only one needed it. I place the other in the other side for aesthetics.

[RisaH]

Instead, I forced the spring towards the glass and placed a brass screw on the wood to limit the movement. Notice that after that, the springs are no longer aligned. Notice the brass screw in both sides, although only one needed it. I place the other in the other side for aesthetics.

Oh yes, I see now. Nice fix! I wrapped the spring arms with a bit of gaffer tape, which changes the friction and seems to help (and also reduced the way the arms were gouging the wood). I like your brass screw hack, that is worth trying. Good!
Thanks!

[pepeguitarra]

It has been a while since we heard anything from Intrepid about the 4x5 enlarger. What happened?

[Yorkie]

It has been a while since we heard anything from Intrepid about the 4x5 enlarger. What happened?

One of the Kickstart options was supposed to be delivered at the end of May but the word is that it had been delayed to mid-late June.

[pepeguitarra]

I thought they had everything ready to go. Could this be a case of: Trying to grab too much at the same time?

[Max Grew]

I thought they had everything ready to go. Could this be a case of: Trying to grab too much at the same time?

Hello Pepe, we have been posting regular updates on our Kickstarter page, you should have received an email notification each time we posted one.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1436129614/intrepid-4x5-enlarger-print-and-scan-35mm-120-and/updates

We were delayed by a couple of weeks, and are back on track shipping again, so far 65 enlarger kits have gone out and shipping of the remaining units will be completed by the end of July.

Best, Max

[locutus]

It has been a while since we heard anything from Intrepid about the 4x5 enlarger. What happened?

I received mine and already made prints with it, i'm content even though it took a bit long to arrive.

[shoshin]

After taking 8 photos with my new 8x10 Mark II the focussing knob just fell off because it was poorly glued.

[Peter De Smidt]

Mine just arrived. Nothing major looks amiss on casual inspection. I'll try to take some pictures with it over the next couple of days.

[Jim Becia]

Mine just arrived. Nothing major looks amiss on casual inspection. I'll try to take some pictures with it over the next couple of days.

Peter, I look forward to your comments. I’m on the fence trying to decide if it would make a better backpacking camera than my Chamonix. It would save about 3.5 pounds, but the Chamonix is certainly a strong and sturdy camera. But my body would probably enjoy the weight savings.

[klw]

Mine just arrived. Nothing major looks amiss on casual inspection. I'll try to take some pictures with it over the next couple of days.

I hope you will share your experiences here soon :) I'm waiting 16 weeks now, when did you order yours?

[Peter De Smidt]

Well, I filmed a 28 minute video yesterday, but management had some issues with it. I'll give it another go today. I've not done this type of video before, and it's a challenge.

[Peter De Smidt]

Here's a video first impression. I apologize for the poor quality. It's the first time I've tried to do this. https://youtu.be/oKai2Xgv-GE

[Steven Tribe]

Very useful and very sober comments!

[Tin Can]

Self made video is not easy. Peter is doing a great job.

Thanks Peter!

[klw]

Here's a video first impression. I apologize for the poor quality. It's the first time I've tried to do this. https://youtu.be/oKai2Xgv-GE

Thank you very much for the video. You did a great job and I really appreciate it. I hope to see more of this soon :)

I'd love to see how the camera performs in landscape and portrait photography (maybe this could be part II and III?) ;)

[Bernice Loui]

Good video, little wrong with the quality. Not so sure about the Interpred 8x10.


Bernice


Here's a video first impression. I apologize for the poor quality. It's the first time I've tried to do this. https://youtu.be/oKai2Xgv-GE

[Peter De Smidt]

Here's a slightly updated version. Please don't put yourself through the torture of watching it again, if you've already watched the first one. https://youtu.be/AU2wDHY1Nhk

Thank you for the kind comments.

[Peter De Smidt]

I made a mistake in the video. The focusing screen is glass.

[Corran]

Thanks Peter for the in-depth look - especially from someone who actually shoots 8x10. Your wrap-up made a great point about compromise. Looking forward to seeing what you shoot with it and your follow-up thoughts.

[Peter De Smidt]

Thanks, Bryan. The camera fits in a Tenba messenger bag, along with all the accessories and 3 film holders. None of my other 8x10 cameras are anywhere near as portable. While waiting for my Intrepid, an 8x10 Agfa showed up locally. I bought it for much less than an Intrepid, but it is not close to ready to shoot. It'll require a fair amount refurbing to make it workable. How the back works is my biggest concern with the Intrepid, followed by longevity and stability. The design is open enough, though, that modifying it should be fairly easy. I've been shooting with it every day since it arrived.

For some reason, I had never considered trying my 240 Germinar-W as a convertible. It gives 19" of extension focused at infinity. The image on the ground glass looked good, but I'll have shoot some film to see if it holds up for my max 3x enlargment use. I hope it does, as the camera does best with light lenses, especially long ones. I bought a step up ring that goes from the Compur No. 1 shutter to 52mm filters, and I'll use a protective filter on the front of the shutter.

[richydicky]

Hi Peter, thanks for your video. I made a comment on the 5x4 Intrepid thread regarding the front standard which you replied to . Have you taken any photos with your camera yet? I took a few test shots after taping around the front standard to eliminate light leaks and then discoverd that that film sheet has fogging all around the edges. So I checked with a torch and sure enough light leaks in around the mating surfaces of the back board. The older model had a felt seal and the two knobs to screw down tight and never had a problem with that; the MK II just seems to rely on the magnet strength to form a light tight seal. I don't know whether I am missing something or my camera is missing something, but again the only way I can use this is too also apply black tape around the rear standard.

[Peter De Smidt]

Hi,

I've taken about 40 photos with my camera so far. I've had light leaks on two, which I attributed to the holder. In your case, I'd contact the manufacture and get it fixed.

[Peter De Smidt]

I just beveled the top of the spring back as I talk about in the video. I made a sled for my table saw fence to clamp the back to, adjusted the blade to the right angle, and took off small amounts until the bevel was the right size. It makes loading and removing holders much easier. The back now rides up and over the ridge on the film holder, and the holder clicks into place nicely. If Intrepid did this, as well as make the back "ears...tabs....?" 1/4" longer, this would be a huge improvement. I'll show this in a second video, but that will have to wait awhile.

[pepeguitarra]

I have no leaks on my 8x10, I credit that to the enormous amount of gaffer tape used by the factory to seal the front standard. Really, it looks like I did it, but it came like that. ;)

[pepeguitarra]

I just beveled the top of the spring back as I talk about in the video. I made a sled for my table saw fence to clamp the back to, adjusted the blade to the right angle, and took off small amounts until the bevel was the right size. It makes loading and removing holders much easier. The back now rides up and over the ridge on the film holder, and the holder clicks into place nicely. If Intrepid did this, as well as make the back "ears...tabs....?" 1/4" longer, this would be a huge improvement. I'll show this in a second video, but that will have to wait awhile.. I look forward to seeing the video. Thanks.

[Fred L]

I have no leaks on my 8x10, I credit that to the enormous amount of gaffer tape used by the factory to seal the front standard. Really, it looks like I did it, but it came like that. ;)

seriously ? lol I'm guessing they forgot to remove the tape after the bellows was glued to the back. very curious if you have a photo of this, mine doesn't have the tape :(

[pepeguitarra]

seriously ? lol I'm guessing they forgot to remove the tape after the bellows was glued to the back. very curious if you have a photo of this, mine doesn't have the tape :( See to believe, instead of believe to see? I will get a shot one of these days.

[Michael Kadillak]

. I look forward to seeing the video. Thanks.

I look forward to the video as well. I did paint all of the inner surfaces of the front and back of the camera a flat black which I feel is a good recommendation for controlling any scattered light that could come into play including the area inside the front standard outside of the area where the bellows are glued.

[Peter De Smidt]

Another consideration: The focusing panel is very light in color. I was using the camera with a 240mm lens, some fall, and some forward lens tilt. There was a lot of focusing panel in front of and close to the lens bouncing bright light at the lens. I didn't see a problem in the negative, but I was using a very contrasty lens. I'm going to make the top of the focusing board, the one with the brass threaded inserts, matte black, as Chamonix does to minimize flare potential. I haven't decided if I'm going to glue black material or do something else. I'm considering contact cementing some black EPDM rubber, as I have a whole bunch of it, but I haven't decided. Obviously, holes would have to be made over the brass threaded inserts.

[Tin Can]

First thing I did was black out my Intrepid 4X5 internals and soon sold it.

[Michael Kadillak]

Another consideration: The focusing panel is very light in color. I was using the camera with a 240mm lens, some fall, and some forward lens tilt. There was a lot of focusing panel in front of and close to the lens bouncing bright light at the lens. I didn't see a problem in the negative, but I was using a very contrasty lens. I'm going to make the top of the focusing board, the one with the brass threaded inserts, matte black, as Chamonix does to minimize flare potential. I haven't decided if I'm going to glue black material or do something else. I'm considering contact cementing some black EPDM rubber, as I have a whole bunch of it, but I haven't decided. Obviously, holes would have to be made over the brass threaded inserts.

Tilting the camera GG backward and pointing the base point to the ground to a degree with front rise and rear tilt lens panel in addition to ensuring the 240mm lens does not catch a portion of the camera base in the image it could also reflect any light past the lens depending upon the angles of the light being received. The other option is to simply take a small piece of black cloth and temporarily velcro it around the base of the camera in front of the lens.

[pepeguitarra]

Despite all the complains I have made of the Intrepid, I have the 4x5 Mk2 and 8x10Mk2 and am very happy with them. I do have other cameras like the Chamonix 4x5 (the best) and Kodak 2E 8x10, and Century 8x10, which are wonderful, but the weight and flexibility of the Intrepid is what keeps me using it most of the time.
https://live.staticflickr.com/7866/32627113497_1d2606c4bd.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/RH9u8B)Glowing in the Forest (https://flic.kr/p/RH9u8B) by Palenquero Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palenquero/), on Flickr

[Tin Can]

Like!

[Jac@stafford.net]

She looks like my second wife!
.
.
(I've been married once)

[paulbarden]

[QUOTE=pepeguitarra;1510709]Despite all the complains I have made of the Intrepid, I have the 4x5 Mk2 and 8x10Mk2 and am very happy with them. I do have other cameras like the Chamonix 4x5 (the best) and Kodak 2E 8x10, and Century 8x10, which are wonderful, but the weight and flexibility of the Intrepid is what keeps me using it most of the time.

Its a lovely photo. Question: Is that some sort of light leak making those horizontal streaks in the lower third of the photo (most evident across the dress fabric)?

[pepeguitarra]

It is more like problems with the developer. This is another one the same day using x-ray film:

https://live.staticflickr.com/7830/46879969534_6d926e9c93.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2eqC6EN)JimNoel (https://flic.kr/p/2eqC6EN) by Palenquero Photography (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palenquero/), on Flickr

[campbellnova]

Wow! thanks for the info

https://www.ericcampbellphotography.com

[Peter De Smidt]

New video with back modification: https://youtu.be/q98I5yMqmFk

[Michael Kadillak]

New video with back modification: https://youtu.be/q98I5yMqmFk

Thanks Peter for taking the time to expand on precisely what you were making reference to on your camera back.

I can see what benefits you are accomplishing.

Couple of thoughts that come to mind. First I would think that these adjustments would be best advised and deployed by Intrepid because not everyone has a table saw or the knowledge / experience to pull this adjustment off. Secondly, I become ever cognizant of not applying any pressure (or as little as possible) on the surface of my 8x10 film holders simply because these holders have to last me for the rest of my career. As a result I literally pre open my 8x10 camera backs with my fingers and do everything possible to not frictionally slide them on the inner surfaces of the GG back. On my Toyo 8x10 M with the bail back I can literally drop the holder in all by itself without touching either side of the GG or the camera. On my Canham 8x10 it is also possible. The Intrepid is the most challenging in this respect but it still can be done. All of my 8x10 holders look virtually new as a result. I see people jam holders into large format cameras with such force it blows my mind. Why I do not know.

[Peter De Smidt]

Everyone should do what they like. I have holders that are decades older then me, and I don't know of any that have been damaged in that way, which is not to say that such damage is impossible.

[Michael Kadillak]

Everyone should do what they like. I have holders that are decades older then me, and I don't know of any that have been damaged in that way, which is not to say that such damage is impossible.

Although I considered photography and architecture as a career choice, I ended up being an engineer because I knew it would always pay the bills and afford me a life style. Labs in college that dealt with the adverse effects of friction and durability of materials struck a cord with me very early on. But you are right. it you pay for your holders you can rightfully do what you choose. Many times I choose to chime in on posts for the up and coming in this arena not the old school that had access to inexpensive priced holders. lenses and shutters to their hearts content. This is a whole new game IMHO.

[Andrea Gazzoni]

New video with back modification: https://youtu.be/q98I5yMqmFk

Thank you Peter, does this make the withdrawal of the film holder easier too?

[Peter De Smidt]

Andrea, yes it does.

[Andrea Gazzoni]

they should grant you copyright at this point ;-)
the good news is they will modify the back including a beveled edge from now on.
hope they will help existing users too someway.

[Peter De Smidt]

Well, I only thought of it after looking at my other camera backs, some more than a hundred years old. Thus, I don't think I'm the first to think of it. ;) Anyway, I hope they do incorporate the bevel. Now if I can convince them to change their back springs to a conventional pin design, well, that too would be good. (With the current design, if the back is opened a bit too far, the springs can slip off. This can't happen with the very old pin/spring design.)

Regarding beveling the back, I used a diy sled that rides my table saw fence. I clamped the piece of plywood to it. This worked very well, but this is just a small bevel on a piece of plywood. It could be made in a number of ways: a bevel-cutting router bit with a bearing, a chisel, a plane, a sander, including a simple block of wood with some sand paper. This latter would take longer, but the chance of messing up would be extremely low.

[MusicalPhotog]

New video with back modification: https://youtu.be/q98I5yMqmFk

Hi Peter,

Interesting video. I am particularly interested in the Tenba bag you're using. Can you tell me the specific model? I'm thinking of getting it for my Chamonix 810V. (I think the Intrepid and the Chamonix are similar in size.)

Thanks much!

[Peter De Smidt]

Here's a link: https://www.polylinecorp.com/tenba-large-messenger-navy-blue-638-233.html I bought mine from B&H, but it's no longer a current model. Tenba's newer bags are here: https://www.tenba.com/en/products/shoulder-bags/messenger-bags

[marcookie]

Hi forum,

I found that the bellows can get in the way with extreme movements or with wide angle shots. A simple solution was to use a clip and a rubber band as in the attached picture. Make sure to bend the clip a couple times before use, so that it does not crimp the bellows at full strength.

https://i.ibb.co/mGVYBGm/IMG-20190803-123236.jpg

Works wonders, even with the Nikon 120 mm that intrepid says it cannot be used on their camera.

I am now waiting for the MK II, hopefully will arrive soon, I have been now waiting 6 or 7 weeks over the expected delivery time.

[klw]

I am now waiting for the MK II, hopefully will arrive soon, I have been now waiting 6 or 7 weeks over the expected delivery time.

Same here. I ordered mine 22 Weeks ago…

[paulbarden]

Hi forum,

I found that the bellows can get in the way with extreme movements or with wide angle shots. A simple solution was to use a clip and a rubber band as in the attached picture. Make sure to bend the clip a couple times before use, so that it does not crimp the bellows at full strength.

https://i.ibb.co/mGVYBGm/IMG-20190803-123236.jpg

Works wonders, even with the Nikon 120 mm that intrepid says it cannot be used on their camera.

I am now waiting for the MK II, hopefully will arrive soon, I have been now waiting 6 or 7 weeks over the expected delivery time.

As an aside, I have found that if you leave the 8x10 Intrepid set up for a day or two, the bellows will sag enough to start impinging on the interior space, potentially obscuring some of the image. I've also noticed the bellows starting to show signs of misfolding after 10 months of use. (I have never abused the bellows or introduced a misfold by carelessness)

Intrepid never meets its delivery dates as presented at the time of purchase. Buyers should add at least 1.5 months to the delivery time they offer. They really ought to correct this to set buyers expectations more realistically.

[Jac@stafford.net]

I found that the bellows can get in the way with extreme movements or with wide angle shots. A simple solution was to use a clip and a rubber band as in the attached picture.


Good for you. I love the simple approach!

[mdarnton]

I use Kodak slide Carousel projection lenses as focus magnifiers, and slip them under the bellows when not being used on all of my cameras, including the 8x10 Intrepid. They are a perfect fit to boost the bellows up to a neutral stance.

[Peter De Smidt]

I haven't noticed any issues with my Mkii. It just sat setup in my studio for a few weeks. Bellows look the same as they did at the start.

[Peter De Smidt]

Today I was able to set up my Intrepid next to a Chamonix and an Eboni 8x10. Clearly the later are more versatile and luxurious, but a little tapping showed the Intrepid to be just as good in the "bounce after a light tap" test. Coming from a metal Toyo AX and heavy studio cameras, the springiness in the Intrepid worried me a bit, but it seems pretty par for the course with 8x10 field cameras.

One thing to note: real Sinar lens boards have slightly rounded corners, and they fit the Intrepid just fine, but many third party boards have square corners, and they don't fit without filing the corners.

I wish the Intrepid had a universal bellows like the Eboni, one where the front is similar to a bag bellows, as this would work better for wide angles.

[Peter De Smidt]

That's with more extension than I did. When I close my camera, especially with an adapter lens board, it squishes the bellows back quite a bit. When the camera is going to sit for a bit, I expect that setting the camera up, putting the front standard on the threaded insert closest to the back, and centering the lens panel will be best for long-term bellows health.

[paulbarden]

That's with more extension than I did. When I close my camera, especially with an adapter lens board, it squishes the bellows back quite a bit. When the camera is going to sit for a bit, I expect that setting the camera up, putting the front standard on the threaded insert closest to the back, and centering the lens panel will be best for long-term bellows health.

What extension?? This is with the front standard in the front position, with the focusing rail in the default position. (not extended)

[Peter De Smidt]

I let my camera setup in my studio for a week with the front standard two holes back, which is the appropriate one for my 240mm. I didn't notice any sagging. For storage, I'd moving the lens standard to the one closest to the back.

[Peter De Smidt]

I just mounted a 159mm Wollensak wide angle on the Intrepid 8x10 MKII using a flat Sinar board. The lens standard mounts in the second hole away from the film plane. I'm not sure about infinity focus, but this can focus from about 200 feet away to very close. With all movements zero'd out, it doesn't appear that the camera bed gets in the way of the shot with the camera in portrait orientation. (One could always tilt the back back and then re-plumb to give a dropped bed.) I won't know for sure until I shoot a few sheets, but it looks like this will be a good wide setup. I'm really happy that I don't need a recessed board, as those make changing settings on the shutter more challenging.

[klw]

Here's a link: https://www.polylinecorp.com/tenba-large-messenger-navy-blue-638-233.html I bought mine from B&H, but it's no longer a current model. Tenba's newer bags are here: https://www.tenba.com/en/products/shoulder-bags/messenger-bags

How do you protect the ground glass when carrying the camera the the bag?

[braxus]

Im thinking of ordering one of these cameras. It comes out to $702 Canadian on my end, plus duty afterwards. What lens boards do you use with this camera? I have Graflex Speed Graphic boards here, but Im sure they are too small for this camera. Adapter maybe?

[Peter De Smidt]

The Intrepid uses Sinar-style boards, although they have to have rounded corners. I use a Sinar to Toyo field adapter from Ebay, as my 4x5 lenses are all on Toyo 110mm boards. (Toyo makes bigger boards for their monorails.) You can get an adapter for many different boards. My adapter had square corners, and so I had to file them down to fit on the intrepid.

[Fred L]

The big selling points of the Intrepid, are the weight, or lack of, and the cost. But I'd suggest looking at what you really want out of an 8x10 camera and how important those two things are. I was a KS backer and have the early version with bungee and plywood base. Use it once in a blue moon, not as much as I thought. I have a Sinar to Technika adapter so I can use same lenses with other cameras.

tbh, I find I use my much heavier Zone VI more, and just deal with the weight. It just feels better.

You'd be hard pressed imo, to find a good condition folding field at that price so there's that.

[braxus]

I'd like to use this camera outdoors, and possibly on hikes. So weight is important. The 8x10 camera wont get a lot of use, since I have like a dozen other cameras including digital. I saw there is a Sinar to Graflex board adapter on Ebay. I'll probably get that if I go the Intrepid camera. And I don't want to spend a lot of money on this, so the Intrepid comes out the cheapest from all of the options so far. Im not sure how heavy the Kodak 2D is either. That was my other option.

[C. D. Keth]

My Intrepid 8X10 is not quite a year old. This is what the bellows look like if I leave the camera set up for 24 hours or more:

194194

Why on earth would you ever leave your camera set up for more than a day?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Luis-F-S]

Why on earth would you ever leave your camera set up for more than a day?

Because they don't know. Why would you have it set up for longer than it takes to use it? L

[Two23]

Why on earth would you ever leave your camera set up for more than a day?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A really long exposure?:eek:

[paulbarden]

Why on earth would you ever leave your camera set up for more than a day?



Its simple: sometimes I do still life work that evolves over a span of 2 or 3 (or more) days. That requires leaving the camera in place during the multi-day period. You've never done work in that way? I suspect many of us have. To suggest that somehow this involves ignorance or naiveté on my part (Luis) is uncalled for.

[C. D. Keth]

Its simple: sometimes I do still life work that evolves over a span of 2 or 3 (or more) days. That requires leaving the camera in place during the multi-day period. You've never done work in that way? I suspect many of us have. To suggest that somehow this involves ignorance or naiveté on my part (Luis) is uncalled for.

No, I think my camera has stayed up for maybe 7 or 8 hours tops. Your method never occurred to me as a possibility.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Michael Kadillak]

How do you protect the ground glass when carrying the camera the the bag?

To protect my Intrepid Mark II 8x10 ground glass I ordered a piece of custom cut acrylic from Westfall Framing and taped it in place over it. I did the identical thing for my Toyo 810M as it had a slide to lock it in place. Focus right through the clear acrylic. Works like a champ.

[Luis-F-S]

Its simple: sometimes I do still life work that evolves over a span of 2 or 3 (or more) days. That requires leaving the camera in place during the multi-day period. You've never done work in that way? I suspect many of us have. To suggest that somehow this involves ignorance or naiveté on my part (Luis) is uncalled for.
I was referring to the OP's comment, not anyone else. An no, I've never felt the need to do still life work over several days. If I need to do still life, I would use strobes or hot lights. I would not set up a camera and leave it open over several days due to bellows sag, and other issues. But, you do it your way, and I'll do it mine.....

[paulbarden]

I was referring to the OP's comment, not anyone else. An no, I've never felt the need to do still life work over several days. If I need to do still life, I would use strobes or hot lights. I would not set up a camera and leave it open over several days due to bellows sag, and other issues. But, you do it your way, and I'll do it mine.....

You may have been referring to someone else's comment, but you were obviously referencing MY studio practice.
I work with natural light (I dislike the strobe look) and I typically work with wet plate collodion, so as I'm sure you realize, this is slow work. Its not unusual to run out of light on day one and have to resume the work the following day. (Isn't this one of the things LF photographers often say is an important part of their practice: taking things slow and becoming mindful and deliberate in their work?) So for me, its not unusual to have the camera set up for a project for 48 hours before completion. My Deardorff doesn't complain about this, but the Intrepid goes quite flaccid in short order. I would think other potential buyers would like to know this.

[Peter De Smidt]

I agree, Paul. That's good to know.

[marcookie]

My thoughts on the 8x10 MK2, some comparision with the MK1, and some mods:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzP7C7N2zLY

[Peter De Smidt]

Good video. Beveling the inside top edge of the very back piece does help a lot. The great thing about the camera is that it's light.

[paulbarden]

Excellent, Marco!

[coolbreeze1983]

Thank you for taking the time for this excellent users review.

[Alan9940]

Nice review! I got mine a few weeks ago and the only issue I have with it is that the recess for the front standard must not have been cut properly because the lensboard is loose, even with the retaining clip tightened down. This "play" causes light leaks around the lensboard. I have contacted Intrepid and they're going to send me some sort of light seal. No idea how this is going to work, but I'm hoping for the best.

[Andrew Plume]

Thx Marco for posting your videos, they're great for 'the starters' on here

and btw I much enjoy your work (as well)

regards

Andrew

[richydicky]

Nice review! I got mine a few weeks ago and the only issue I have with it is that the recess for the front standard must not have been cut properly because the lensboard is loose, even with the retaining clip tightened down. This "play" causes light leaks around the lensboard. I have contacted Intrepid and they're going to send me some sort of light seal. No idea how this is going to work, but I'm hoping for the best.

I had a sorry saga last year with my sample, not to go into here, but had the same as you describe plus similar poor fit and light leaks from the rear standard so double check that too. The tape they send you may be to thin. I'm in London and got some narrow felt tape from a specialist haberdashery shop, photo attached shows what I had to do; yes it was that sloppy.

Quality control is zero. The Mk1 I got was fine as far as the standards was concerned, good fit, light tight. The MkII seems to be hit and miss as some people seem to have no problem at all.

203144

[Michael Kadillak]

On my Mark II 8x10 Intrepid, I painted all of the GG back surfaces on both sides a flat black and replaced the aluminum base plate with a thicker one that I had two 3/8" screws tapped into it to receive the tripod head plate to prevent any twist when inserting film holders.

What I found in using the camera is that I need to put a dark cloth over the camera back when making exposures to make sure that I do not have any light leakage when I pull the slide to make an exposure. Relatively speaking a small inconvenience since I do the same thing when I use my ULF cameras.

[Peter De Smidt]

I blackened all light trap areas with black waterproof india ink. So far, so good. I agree that quality control is pretty rough.

[Rayt]

It sounds like the camera itself is ok but the assembly is crap. Perhaps Intrepid should release as an option a kit so users can assemble one themselves?

[Michael Kadillak]

It sounds like the camera itself is ok but the assembly is crap. Perhaps Intrepid should release as an option a kit so users can assemble one themselves?

They have in fact already accomplished that in sending consumers an upgraded kit. Rather than send the parts to you in pieces they feel it is more efficient to send it in quasi together form so you can see where everything is supposed to go together. Then you can take it from there on your own version of completing the task.

While I take a friendly dig at the company I commend their willingness to be enterprising and take on risk. Their business model is driven by low cost and manufacturing efficiency. The diminishment in sales as a function of an increased price point to substantially improve quality control I suspect would drop their sales like a rock in the lake. From my perspective a few user "adjustments" could be necessary but once they are completed on an as need basis, the camera does what it claims to do. Folks that think that the fit and finish of a Intrepid is on par with a Canham or a Deardorff are in need of a reality check. Lower your expectations and keep your eye on the ball. Light weight and low cost can work. Just be prepared to step up to get it where you feel it needs to be to let you feel comfortable in using it in the field.

[Alan9940]

I blackened all light trap areas with black waterproof india ink. So far, so good. I agree that quality control is pretty rough.

I did this all around where the lensboard mounts into the front standard. It helped with the light leaks, but didn't eliminate the problem. I recently found a business card that seems to be the perfect thickness to slip behind the lensboard clip keeping the board tighter against the camera. Jury still out whether this will solve my light leak issue.

[Peter De Smidt]

I use an adapter to mount Toyo field boards. I use an allen wrench to tighten down the Intrepid's lens board slider onto the adapter. It's not a great system, and so screwing it down snug helps. The adapter board is much better, with an angled sliding piece that holds the smaller boards snugly.

[Nasir]

New video with back modification: https://youtu.be/q98I5yMqmFk

Thanks for the video Peter. I watched it before placing my order for a Mark II and mentioned it to Intrepid via Twitter. The reply I got back said they had updated their design to make film holder loading easier. My 8x10 Mark II arrived a couple of weeks ago and although they haven't chamfered the back they've made the tabs rounded which does make the loading smooth.

Cheers

[Peter De Smidt]

That's good to hear, Nasir.

[Peter De Smidt]

The front standard on my Intrepid 8x10II tends to spin even when tightened. Today, I contact cemented some epdm rubber, the kind used for roofing, into the bottom of the front standard. It looks like this fixed the issue, and the standard can still be easily turned when the screw is loosened. There might be some beneficial vibration damping, but I don't have a way to quantify that.

[Bob Salomon]

The front standard on my Intrepid 8x10II tends to spin even when tightened. Today, I contact cemented some epdm rubber, the kind used for roofing, into the bottom of the front standard. It looks like this fixed the issue, and the standard can still be easily turned when the screw is loosened. There might be some beneficial vibration damping, but I don't have a way to quantify that.

Easy to measure the vibration.
1 tape a large piece of graph paper to the wall
2 tape a laser pointer to the front standard and tape it on and pointing at the graph paper
3 tap your camera and see the defection on the paper and how long it takes to stop.

[Peter De Smidt]

That sounds like a good test, Bob. But I'm going to go with the "seems to vibrate less when I lightly tap it" method. Anyway, that doesn't really matter much. A standard that is easily moved out of place is a major problem. That's been fixed.

[interneg]

The front standard on my Intrepid 8x10II tends to spin even when tightened. Today, I contact cemented some epdm rubber, the kind used for roofing, into the bottom of the front standard. It looks like this fixed the issue, and the standard can still be easily turned when the screw is loosened. There might be some beneficial vibration damping, but I don't have a way to quantify that.

That all-too-easy-to-move front standard was one of the two things that's been putting me off buying an Intrepid 8x10 so far - good to hear that it's solvable with something that adds minimal thickness. The other was the extent to which the bellows settle/ droop over time once set up - I'd be interested to hear how you find they behave once the camera is set up.

[Peter De Smidt]

So far, the bellows have been ok, but a more serious problem has developed. I hadn't used my camera in a few months, and I went out photographing with it the other day. 3 out of 4 negatives had serious light leaks. I just took the camera into the darkroom, inserted a holder, turned out the lights and put a bright light inside the bellows. I could clearly see light leaking from the joint between the holder frame and the rear standard along two edges, the parts held together with magnets. It doesn't look like the plywood stays flat, and the light trap situation is clearly insufficient.

[Andrea Gazzoni]

now this is worrying...

[Luis-F-S]

I could clearly see light leaking from the joint between the holder frame and the rear standard along two edges, the parts held together with magnets. It doesn't look like the plywood stays flat, and the light trap situation is clearly insufficient.

I've got several 30 year plus Deardorffs that are still light tight. Matter of fact, I've never heard of a Deardorff that's been reasonably taken care of leaking. That is just unacceptable. L

[Peter De Smidt]

I agree. I've emailed them.

[interneg]

So far, the bellows have been ok, but a more serious problem has developed. I hadn't used my camera in a few months, and I went out photographing with it the other day. 3 out of 4 negatives had serious light leaks. I just took the camera into the darkroom, inserted a holder, turned out the lights and put a bright light inside the bellows. I could clearly see light leaking from the joint between the holder frame and the rear standard along two edges, the parts held together with magnets. It doesn't look like the plywood stays flat, and the light trap situation is clearly insufficient.

I don't think the ply is coated/ finished/ marine grade on the Intrepids & it often doesn't take much to get that sort of material to change shape.

Sounds like it might be cheaper overall to get on and build my own camera...

[Corran]

That sucks! It seems to me the lion's share of issues are coming from the 8x10 cameras.

Another point in favor of the 3D-printed parts of the new 4x5 model. I imagine here in the humid south issues would arise much faster.

[paulbarden]

My 4x5 Intrepid (2018) has serious warpage of the plywood components now. Its still usable, but I wonder for how long.

[Peter De Smidt]

I'll probably replace all of the plywood parts with composite parts, but that's going to take awhile.

[AuditorOne]

I really do feel sorry for you guys. I think you should all go buy Deardorffs and send me your Intrepids. :D
\

[Daniel Casper Lohenstein]

I really do feel sorry for you guys. I think you should all go buy Deardorffs and send me your Intrepids. :D
\

Maybe you're right. Would you like to have mine?

[paulbarden]

I really do feel sorry for you guys. I think you should all go buy Deardorffs and send me your Intrepids. :D
\

Careful what you ask for.

[Peter De Smidt]

I just heard back from Intrepid, which is a pretty speedy reply.

"I’m really sorry to hear this. Your camera was from one of the early batches of 8x10 MK2s and we have since updated this part to improve the longevity of the light seal.

We can either send you a replacement back frame for free which should solve the issue or you could return the camera for our team to check over, test and switch the frame. "

That's a reasonable reply. I'll report back after the replacement frame arrives.

[Exploring Large Format]

I just heard back from Intrepid, which is a pretty speedy reply.

"I’m really sorry to hear this. Your camera was from one of the early batches of 8x10 MK2s and we have since updated this part to improve the longevity of the light seal.

We can either send you a replacement back frame for free which should solve the issue or you could return the camera for our team to check over, test and switch the frame. "

That's a reasonable reply. I'll report back after the replacement frame arrives.This is consistent with response i received re my MK4 4x5. My model was an early MK4, and the small bolts scratched the base. They told me mine was from a small batch with that issue, and they immediately sent me the replacement parts to repair. Another member here and i experienced the same issue.

Easy fix. Great communication.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Bob Salomon]

This is consistent with response i received re my MK4 4x5. My model was an early MK4, and the small bolts scratched the base. They told me mine was from a small batch with that issue, and they immediately sent me the replacement parts to repair. Another member here and i experienced the same issue.

Easy fix. Great communication.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Had you registered your camera with the factory?

Seems that, just like a car manufacturer, then when the factory becomes aware of a serious problem, they should notify registered owners of the problem and their cure. Would save them a lot of bad press on the forums if they were just upfront about the problem.

[Luis-F-S]

I really do feel sorry for you guys. I think you should all go buy Deardorffs and send me your Intrepids. :D


No! That will only drive up the price of used Deardorff! Just keep using your Intrepids and complaining.

[Exploring Large Format]

Had you registered your camera with the factory?

Seems that, just like a car manufacturer, then when the factory becomes aware of a serious problem, they should notify registered owners of the problem and their cure. Would save them a lot of bad press on the forums if they were just upfront about the problem.There are no serial numbers, but i totally get your point. Wondered the same thing about their process being complaint-driven rather than proactive.

Also understood from beginning--even as beginner--that Intrepid business model is different from high quality, more expensive models. Appreciate that it lures folks like me, unfamiliar with LF, into the possibilities. In my case, also put together a Norma from reading this forum. So experiencing range of approaches.

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