Edward Weston

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Interesting video.


https://youtu.be/yT2-xpKBafs

[Bruce Barlow]

Yes, very interesting.

My big takeaway: Once again, validation that you use one film, one developer, one paper, and one print developer. Then learn through many, many pictures what these materials can do. While the materials then influence what pictures you make...well, that worked pretty well for him!

I wish I had that discipline!!

[MichaelPRyan]

Right on! And then hope it doesn't get discontinued.



Yes, very interesting.

My big takeaway: Once again, validation that you use one film, one developer, one paper, and one print developer. Then learn through many, many pictures what these materials can do. While the materials then influence what pictures you make...well, that worked pretty well for him!

I wish I had that discipline!!

[Jim Jones]

The parts of the video showing Edward Weston are from a 25 minute film, The Photographer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8S4HoxuDzw, by Willard Van Dyke and released in 1948. Ironically, at this time Weston was doing less B&W photography, and was finishing a series of 8x10 Kodachrome transparencies for Kodak. It is obvious in the film that the once vigorous photographer was suffering from the onset of Parkinson's disease. 1948 was the last year he could handle a camera, although he continued to supervise the printing of prodigious quantities of his photographs.

[Doug Howk]

Was the paper Ed Weston used Kodak AZO or some other chloride paper?

[tgtaylor]

It's interesting to note that Kim Weston, who said he printed many of Edward's negatives with his father Cole, described those negatives as being "bulletproof" and that they were developed for as long as 30 minutes.

Thomas

[Steve Sherman]

I spent a weekend at Wildcat Hill and overnight in the Bodie House. Kim gave us a tour of the house and EW’s darkroom. He showed us a “project print” which was printed by Brett. It remains the single most luminous and vibrant print I have ever seen, Museum or otherwise. Interestingly Kim told us EW only made 6 prints of Pepper # 30 himself. All others were project prints made by others. Kim went into say EW felt Brett’s version on grade 1 was too contrasty and preferred his own printing on grade 0.

[tgtaylor]

When I was at Wildcat Hill Kim showed us a Brett Weston negative that he salvaged after Brett had punched holes in them with a puncher. From my recollection it was a standard exposure - one that could be printed on a Grade 2 paper. Thus it would appear that Edward over-developed his negatives rendering them suitable for alternative (platinum) printing and Brett developed normally, as for SG printing.


Thomas

[sanking]

When I was at Wildcat Hill Kim showed us a Brett Weston negative that he salvaged after Brett had punched holes in them with a puncher. From my recollection it was a standard exposure - one that could be printed on a Grade 2 paper. Thus it would appear that Edward over-developed his negatives rendering them suitable for alternative (platinum) printing and Brett developed normally, as for SG printing.


Thomas

Edward Weston was known to have used a pyro staining developer. Pyro staining developers have a higher effective density range when printing with platinum, or other UV sensitive processes, than when printing with silver. He writes about this in the the Daybooks from the period of his stay in Mexico.

Sandy

[Merg Ross]

Was the paper Ed Weston used Kodak AZO or some other chloride paper?

Hi Doug,

Some of the finest prints Edward made were on Convira and Velour Black chloride papers. He did print on Velox and Azo. The prints by Brett for the Fiftieth Anniversary Portfolio were made on Haloid Industro, a chloride paper. The Project Prints, that Brett printed from 800 plus negatives chosen by Edward, were also made on Haloid Industro.

[tgtaylor]

Edward Weston was known to have used a pyro staining developer. Pyro staining developers have a higher effective density range when printing with platinum, or other UV sensitive processes, than when printing with silver. He writes about this in the the Daybooks from the period of his stay in Mexico.
Sandy

Then why overdevelop them until they were "bulletproof?"

Thomas

[sanking]

Then why overdevelop them until they were "bulletproof?"

Thomas

Longer developing time with pyro developers increases the effective contrast between silver and UV sensitive processes, which means that if you wanted to make a print on a #2 silver paper, AND a platinum print from the same negative, it would be perfectly logical to develop the negative for a long time in order to increase the contrast for platinum. Stain density is proportional to silver density. Both increase with time of development, but the effective log density increase is greater with stain density than silver density. And while I have never actually seen any of Weston's negatives, I have read that many of his negatives are described as "bulletproof" in appearance, some requiring exposures of three hours or more.

His film may also have a lot of B+F, which would also have increase more with development in a Pyro staining developer.


Sandy

[Steve Sherman]

It is clear that a Pyro processed negative does produce a dual purpose negative in conventional exposure and development wisdom. However, with Multi-Contrast papers essentially all that is available today optimum negative design for use with those MC papers should be decidedly different than traditional Zone System methods to maximize the abilities of those current MC papers.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

I find it amazing how much knowledge these old time photographers have. They are the equivalent of a raw converter in the flesh and do things you can't even come close to on digital. I wish I could go back 40 years in time and start over and be focused on photography and film the way these guys were. And travel the country photographing. Well, that is now my plan when kids are grown and I no longer have to report for work.

I am getting ready to try 2-bath, and slimt on some negatives. SLIMT for color and black and white and 2 bath for black and white only. I exposed for the darkest shadows to be zone v. In some cases I also used a gnd to help compress the sky some. But maybe film is even better in that regard than digital and if developed properly, I can pull in the highlights to be very usable.

This short film proves there is more to photography than clicking the shutter.

[tgtaylor]

Longer developing time with pyro developers increases the effective contrast between silver and UV sensitive processes, which means that if you wanted to make a print on a #2 silver paper, AND a platinum print from the same negative, it would be perfectly logical to develop the negative for a long time in order to increase the contrast for platinum. Stain density is proportional to silver density. Both increase with time of development, but the effective log density increase is greater with stain density than silver density. And while I have never actually seen any of Weston's negatives, I have read that many of his negatives are described as "bulletproof" in appearance, some requiring exposures of three hours or more.

His film may also have a lot of B+F, which would also have increase more with development in a Pyro staining developer.


Sandy

So what you are saying is that you can overdevelop the negative until its contrast is "bulletproof" for printing in various alternative processes such as salt, platinum, kallitype, etc., but you would still be able to print that negative as a silver gelatin on a grade 2 paper by increasing the exposure time on the paper. If that is the case then I don't see the benefit of pyro over, say, Xtol since both developers would require overdeveloping the negative for a platinum print and extending the exposure on the paper for the silver print. Note: Some films, such as Fuji Acros, are capable of achieving a higher density depending of the developing time than other films such as Ilford Delta.

Thomas

[Drew Wiley]

Higher density does not equate to higher contrast. T-grain films like Delta and esp TMax are capable of higher contrast gradiants than ACROS, while at the same time, having less redundant base stain or otherwise fbf. None of these have quite the range of good ole Super-XX. I won't comment on "bulletproof". I've heard of nitrate film base, acetate, and polyester, but not Kevlar film base.

[John Layton]

I learned E.W.'s ABC pyro formula from Cole years ago...using the very contact frame and dodging tools which Edward had used. And yes...Super XX with ABC was such a great combo - printed up real nice on the old Portriga #1, with a weak bare bulb - and I remain convinced that there is something about the multi directionality of light emitted from a bare bulb which makes it unique from all other light sources, especially when contact printing through a well executed, silver-rich pyro negative!