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John Brady
21-Sep-2018, 08:36
Printing with my DeVere 5108
Hello all,I have finally started printing with my newly acquired DeVere 5108 and 8x10 negatives. I know many of you have this enlarger and I am hoping to ramp up my learning curve by seeking your workflow and suggestions. I will apologize in advance for the newb questions!

I started out by putting all of the color filters set on zero and using a 300 5.6 Rodagon at f-16. This enlarger is extremely bright and with a ten second exposure test strip print, the paper turned black as soon as it hit the developer. Without color filters engaged, I could only make about a 3 second exposure, allowing me no time to burn and dodge.

My goal is to be able to expose the print for 15-20 seconds. I found that by turning each of the filter dials to about 125, I could get acceptable exposure times. Is this what all of you do or am I missing something?

What settings are you using to control contrast? I am using Ilford multi grade FB Classic gloss paper.

Any other tips and tricks would be greatly appreciated!

Luis-F-S
21-Sep-2018, 12:40
Well if times are that short you don’t need a 240 lens. You can relamp with ENH bulbs 1000 watts vs 1250.

Luis-F-S
21-Sep-2018, 13:48
What’s the Zone VII density of your negatives. Sounds like they could be thin.

Peter De Smidt
21-Sep-2018, 14:26
Sure. Dialing in equal filter settings is the equivalent of adding neutral density.

You can also split print using max magenta for high contrast and max yellow for low contrast. Alternatively, you can use a blue filter for high contrast and a green for low.

ic-racer
21-Sep-2018, 15:30
f22 or f32 are fine. In the field do you expose your 8x10 film at f16 because you are worried about diffraction?

With a 2000W head, I print with f32 and use the common two-filter (y/m) multigrade printing values. My Durst also has a non-diffracting aperture above the negative (not in focused light) but I rarely use it; I prefer printing times around 20 seconds.

I'm going to be doing some 4x5 negatives, which I have not done with the 8x10 enlarger for a few years. I don't think I'll be printing them that big, so I might just leave the 8x10 mixing box in place which will cut the light about 1.5 stops compared to the 4x5 mixing box.

You might want to check the two-filter combinations in the Ilford paper insert to see which works best with your color head. I have made my own color/contrast charts, but frequently one of the suggestions in the Ilford paper insert works well enough. https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/making-a-multigrade-calibration-table-for-color-head.42839/

Fred L
21-Sep-2018, 15:38
what size print are you making ? ditto about dialling in filters as nd. and as someone else asked, is your neg thin ?

John Brady
21-Sep-2018, 17:11
Thanks for all of the replies. I think the negatives are pretty normal, it’s my run of the mill stuff.

IC, I shoot at f32-f45 all of the time but I thought it was ideal to stop down two stops from the largest aperture for ideal performance of an enlarger lens?

This enlarger is super bright, I talked to my friend Clyde Butcher about it and he said it’s a good problem. He is the one that suggested dialing in color filters to tame it but, he has never worked with a DeVere and hasn’t been to my new darkroom yet, so he is guessing how to deal with it. Which is why I’m reaching out to some of you with experience with this beast.

Fred, for now I am just printing 11x14 until is figure things out.

ic-racer
21-Sep-2018, 17:45
Most of what was ever written about enlarging lenses (including the excellent Ctein books) is based on enlargements quite bigger than 1.4x. Low magnification has its own set of rules. For example the lower the magnification, the less negative plane flatness is needed but the more baseboard flatness is needed (compared to a high magnification situation).

Also, for every negative and easel distance there are two focal points and 8x10 enlargers have enough bellows to find both of them at low magnification (see below). If you happen to find configuration A-prime/B-prime below, you will be amazed to see the image get smaller as the enlarger head is raised.

Enlarging 8x10 and 11x14 negatives is a whole different beast compared to high-magnification small-format, as you will discover.

Use your own eyes rather than a manual for small format enlarging. If your grain magnifier shows blurry grain at 1.4x enlargement when you stop down the f45, then don't do it. But I don't think you will see that in the grain magnifier, let alone the 11x14 print.

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ic-racer
21-Sep-2018, 18:01
I have this, though. Just ribbing you DeVere guys...;)
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Tin Can
21-Sep-2018, 18:04
I have seen this and it is confusing!




Also, for every negative and easel distance there are two focal points and 8x10 enlargers have enough bellows to find both of them at low magnification (see below). If you happen to find configuration A-prime/B-prime below, you will be amazed to see the image get smaller as the enlarger head is raised.


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Duolab123
21-Sep-2018, 21:52
Maybe consider a ordinary ND filter screwed into the front or back of the lens?

ic-racer
22-Sep-2018, 06:26
I have seen this and it is confusing!

Demonstration by example is the best way to observe the behavior. With a 300mm lens on probably any of your big enlargers, compose an image about 8x10 in dimension (you will need an enlarger with over 600mm bellows draw). When you try to focus this you will find there are two focal points very close to each other. You can easily see the image getting sharp, then blurry, then sharp again as you focus the lens stage up and down.
As you raise the head, the two focal points of lensboard travel get farther and farther apart. In one case now you start making a reduction and in the other case you start making an enlargement. So, yes, as you raise the enlarger head when making reductions, the image gets smaller.

You can't usually observe this with 4x5 enlargers because they don't have enough bellows draw.

Greg Davis
30-Sep-2018, 07:38
I have a 5108, too. I either use a neutral density filter on the lens or dial in equal filtration on the color head for smaller prints. It is a very bright enlarger. For 16x20 prints and larger, no correction is needed.

Luis-F-S
30-Sep-2018, 10:15
I lamp mine with ENH bulbs, 1000 watts instead of 1250 with ELH bulbs and 5 times the bulb life. 175 hours vs 35 hours. No need for ND filters.

Luis-F-S
30-Sep-2018, 12:32
I have this, though. Just ribbing you DeVere guys...;)
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Yup, IC, just wait until something happens to those 1960's electronics that you can't fix. Then you either have to rewire the whole thing, or you have a very nice paperweight! And let's not talk about bulbs and reflectors. I know you have spares, let's just hope they out last you! The 5108 uses plain 120v projector bulbs. Available new or NOS at auction. I think I have a couple of 100's! Just ribbing back. :p

ic-racer
30-Sep-2018, 14:32
...or you have a very nice paperweight!

I could hold down a lot of paper....

ic-racer
30-Sep-2018, 14:37
Hey, what is this. I saw this picture of a 5108. Isn't this a 'density' adjustment like on my Durst?
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dentkimterry
30-Sep-2018, 16:38
Hey, what is this. I saw this picture of a 5108. Isn't this a 'density' adjustment like on my Durst?
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it moves the filters out of the light path. I use it as a white light knob for focusing.
Terry

Luis-F-S
30-Sep-2018, 17:17
Wish it were a density adjustment, but like Terry said, it just moves the filters out of the way for focusing. It was interesting when focusing and having the two focus points with a 240! L

John Brady
5-Oct-2018, 06:45
I lamp mine with ENH bulbs, 1000 watts instead of 1250 with ELH bulbs and 5 times the bulb life. 175 hours vs 35 hours. No need for ND filters.

I'll have to give that a try!

John Brady
5-Oct-2018, 06:46
I have a 5108, too. I either use a neutral density filter on the lens or dial in equal filtration on the color head for smaller prints. It is a very bright enlarger. For 16x20 prints and larger, no correction is needed.

Thanks Greg, it sounds like I'm not alone!

Luis-F-S
5-Oct-2018, 12:22
Just bought 6 NOS ENH-5 bulbs at the auction site for under $30! Hard to beat at that price. Several other ENH and ELH lots at good prices. L