Toyo field 810m

[Jbuck]

Hello,

can anyone tell me about a first hand experience with this camera?
or if they know anything about it?

is focusing smooth? and can it hold heavy lenses? (2 kilo or more ? symmar 360 f6.8 or heavier) without the front standard tilting or falling by its weight?

Is it hard to get parts for it?

thanks alot.

[Michael Kadillak]

Hello,

can anyone tell me about a first hand experience with this camera?
or if they know anything about it?

is focusing smooth? and can it hold heavy lenses? (2 kilo or more ? symmar 360 f6.8 or heavier) without the front standard tilting or falling by its weight?

Is it hard to get parts for it?

thanks alot.

I have used a tan Toyo 810M for over 10 years as it is my primary field camera because it is quick to set up, it has dual focus tracks that are smooth and lock down nicely and a front that slides forward and locks down quickly and has a full compliment of movements. Some say that it is a bit on the heavy side to them (it does not bother me at all) as it a solid stable camera platform that holds heavy lenses easily. I like the back bail opener for the film holders and how it squares up to vertical quickly on each standard. Toyo is no longer manufacturing the camera likely due to lack of demand (it was an expensive camera new) and as a result parts are getting increasingly harder to obtain as the inventory depletes. As a result I am very careful in using the camera and knock on wood, it continues to do its thing for me and I use it weekly. The longest lens I can use on my 810M is 24" and the shortest I have used is a 120mm mm although one has to be careful of the front standard encroaching in the image area with that wide view as the rear standard does not move forward. If I am packing 8x10 I take my Canham wood 8x10 which is a bit lighter and is capable of a broader lens selection. Cheers!

[Jbuck]

Thanks a lot. I need to decide between this and a p2..which will be a hard decision.
I do mostly portrait work (indoor and outdoor) and i know sinar is heavier...

What about bellows. Is it hard to find the longer toyo bellows? Or lets say a fresnel for the toyo?

[Drew Wiley]

Both are heavy. You'll need to factor in the weight of a similarly heavy tripod support. Components are much easier to acquire for the Sinar system. Why a P2? All its fancy gearing is really overkill for portrait work. There are much lighter Sinar options which will do the job equally well. In fact, the Toyo G design is modeled after the original Sinar Norma series.

[Michael Kadillak]

Thanks a lot. I need to decide between this and a p2..which will be a hard decision.
I do mostly portrait work (indoor and outdoor) and i know sinar is heavier...

What about bellows. Is it hard to find the longer toyo bellows? Or lets say a fresnel for the toyo?

I found the standard replacement bellows here on this forum a while back. That said if you have the standards Camera Bellows will do the job at a substantial discount to the factory bellows if they had them in stock. I don't use a fresnel on any of my 8x10 cameras but surely if that is a must have there must be options to consider. I do not find myself encumbered in getting a focused image not he GG even in lower light conditions or with F9 or F11 lenses. It is a big piece of GG that is exceptionally easy to work on for me. A P2 as previously mentioned is overkill for the task at hand.

[Leigh]

Thanks a lot. I need to decide between this and a p2..which will be a hard decision.
I do mostly portrait work (indoor and outdoor) and i know sinar is heavier...
What about a Sinar F2 ?
Much lighter than the P2.

- Leigh

[Bernice Loui]

Sinar P -vs- Toyo 810M, they are quite different cameras. Owned and used a 810M for a few years decades ago. IMO, this is the best metal 8x10 field camera made. Precise, rigid an nice to use in every way. It's prime limitation is bellows draw due to camera limitations. Otherwise, it is really an excellent 8x10 field camera. The Toyo front standard can be removed then replaced with a Sinar frame and matching bellows. This allows using a Sinar shutter on the 810M which adds a LOT to it's ability to use non-shuttered lenses. Highly recommended.


Sinar is essentially a view camera system with no significant limitations. This camera is precise, repeatable, stable, easiest to use in a studio if camera movements are used often due to the asymmetrical movements with two point focus as a starting point to achieve proper camera movements. A Sinar can be configured to meet nearly any view camera image making need within some film size limitations (4x5, 5x7, 8x10 is standard, but non-standard film formats such as 4x10, 8x20 and such can be done.) If the image needs are mostly indoors and outdoor images is limited to not far from the vehicle, Sinar P could do. Know the Sinar can be configured to have a lower weight F front with a P rear or 8x10 rear with F front essentially turning this into a 8x10 F, or interchange with Sinar Norma parts. Sinar interchangeability allows all this with little difficulty. Add the Sinar shutter allowing the use of nearly any non-shutter lens within the diameter limit of the Sinar shutter has a lot of benefits that are not often apparent.

For portrait work, camera movements offered by the P is questionable.

As for weight, once into 8x10, weight is a given. Proper tripod, film holders, lenses and more all add up to significant weight with the camera being a smaller percentage of the whole. Only real way to significantly reduce weight is to go down in film format size.

What about post-processing of film and finished images? 8x10 brings on an entirely different set of problems over smaller film format.


Bernice




Thanks a lot. I need to decide between this and a p2..which will be a hard decision.
I do mostly portrait work (indoor and outdoor) and i know sinar is heavier...

What about bellows. Is it hard to find the longer toyo bellows? Or lets say a fresnel for the toyo?

[Bernice Loui]

Or 8x10 Sinar Norma.

Even a basic 8x10 Sinar F is good.

To upgrade, apply different Sinar front or rear standards.


Bernice.



What about a Sinar F2 ?
Much lighter than the P2.

- Leigh

[Drew Wiley]

My 8x10 field camera is less than half the weight of a P. All that "yaw-free" hype has little real-world significance except for certain tabletop studio applications. And I'm a long-time Sinar user.

[Neal Chaves]

I have used the 810M since about 1990 and agree with everything Michael said above. Prior to acquiring it from KEH for $1200, I used Deardoff 8X10s, a B&J monorail, and even a Zone VI 8X10, which I returned to Picker after a few days. I had been assisting a photographer who had the 8X10M and bought the first one I could find. Never looked back or felt the need for anything else in 8X10, but I have recently assembled a correct 8X10 G from parts obtained on eBay for studio use only. Toyo bellows of that era always develop pinholes and need to be replaced, not with NOS Toyo bellows but something from the aftermarket. I still have a Western Bellows on the 8X10M, still perfect after eighteen years and put one from Rudy on the 810G.

I use a 120 Nikkor in horizontal with the bed dropped and never caught the bed. Never tried it vertically and bed might well intrude if I did. Sorry to hear it is out of production. 8X10M is an excellent camera for portraits and other close work because it has geared rear focus, lacking on many field cameras. When you fold the camera for transport or storage, you can lock down the front standard but leave everything else loose, otherwise the camera can be forced into misalignment by pressure in a bag or case.

[Bernice Loui]

Indeed. That "yaw free" stuff mostly applies to studio table top work often with controlled lighting. Combined camera movements for portraits or outdoor images is not common. This feature adds weight, complexity and cost to a camera that should not be considered unless really needed.

Back in the days when catalog product table top images in a studio was the way, that is where a Sinar P really does well.

Sinar user since the mid 1980's and to this day.


Bernice



My 8x10 field camera is less than half the weight of a P. All that "yaw-free" hype has little real-world significance except for certain tabletop studio applications. And I'm a long-time Sinar user.

[B.S.Kumar]

Just FYI, many of the parts of the Toyo 810M and 810MII are interchangeable. Toyo still makes the 810MII, and I can supply any parts or accessories that may be required. Just last week, I shipped the locking assembly for an 810M. This part is identical to the one on the 810MII, except for the color.

A new 810MII will cost 378,000 JPY, plus shipping.

Kumar

[Michael Kadillak]

Just FYI, many of the parts of the Toyo 810M and 810MII are interchangeable. Toyo still makes the 810MII, and I can supply any parts or accessories that may be required. Just last week, I shipped the locking assembly for an 810M. This part is identical to the one on the 810MII, except for the color.

A new 810MII will cost 378,000 JPY, plus shipping.

Kumar

That is very interesting. I was told by Mamiya customer service in New Jersey about a couple of months ago that the 810M has ceased production and their parts inventory is thin if at all. Since I am assuming the interchangeability you mentioned is readily known by the service attendants I took this as par for the course. If that is in fact true that is wonderful. Thanks!

[Michael Kadillak]

Just FYI, many of the parts of the Toyo 810M and 810MII are interchangeable. Toyo still makes the 810MII, and I can supply any parts or accessories that may be required. Just last week, I shipped the locking assembly for an 810M. This part is identical to the one on the 810MII, except for the color.

A new 810MII will cost 378,000 JPY, plus shipping.

Kumar

Looks like your are on point as I see B&H has the camera listed with a long lead time for $5,900 US. I will keep you in mind if I should need parts. Thanks again!

[tgtaylor]

Kumar is correct: The MII is still in production and you can order a new one from a US retailer like B&H or from Kumar who has by far the better price.

The big advantage of the MII over its predecessor the M is the front standard of the MII reverses to allow you to use a longer lens. For example, I can use the 760mm Apo-Nikkor on my MII and the bed has a little extension left but you need the long bellows to use that lens. I'd guess that you could probably use up to an 800mm lens on that camera - longer if the lens is a tele design. With the 610mm Apo-Nikkor the standard bellows is sufficient. But I understand that the M's front standard can be converted to the MII's reversal with parts from Toyo-View repair - Mamiya America or MAC Group - here is the states.

The camera itself is really not that heavy, In fact, when you pick it up it feels deceptively light but with the whole kit - lens, holders, tripod...etc., is in the pack it becomes a weighty load. Unless you have a mule or ilama you don't want to go on overnight backpacks with it.

Thomas

[Michael Kadillak]

Kumar is correct: The MII is still in production and you can order a new one from a US retailer like B&H or from Kumar who has by far the better price.

The big advantage of the MII over its predecessor the M is the front standard of the MII reverses to allow you to use a longer lens. For example, I can use the 760mm Apo-Nikkor on my MII and the bed has a little extension left but you need the long bellows to use that lens. I'd guess that you could probably use up to an 800mm lens on that camera - longer if the lens is a tele design. With the 610mm Apo-Nikkor the standard bellows is sufficient. But I understand that the M's front standard can be converted to the MII's reversal with parts from Toyo-View repair - Mamiya America or MAC Group - here is the states.

The camera itself is really not that heavy, In fact, when you pick it up it feels deceptively light but with the whole kit - lens, holders, tripod...etc., is in the pack it becomes a weighty load. Unless you have a mule or ilama you don't want to go on overnight backpacks with it.

Thomas

Great news all the way around as I was in misguided doomsday mode relative to this camera. I may have to upgrade as the thought of a factory new 810M is very appealing.

[Cor]

I too have a 810M, a great camera, which sees too little use these days.. I echo the comment on the original bellows, pinholes abound, I got a beautifull replacement bellows from Camera Bellows. Search this forum , there is a thread dedicated to the 810M, I believe started by Ari whit a lot of useful information,

Enjoy,

Cor

[Jbuck]

Seller is saying he didn't use the cam since 2010 but that all movements are smooth.. only question is bellows. What can happen to them after all this years ... and buying new ones would cost min additional 200 bucks

[Michael Kadillak]

Seller is saying he didn't use the cam since 2010 but that all movements are smooth.. only question is bellows. What can happen to them after all this years ... and buying new ones would cost min additional 200 bucks

Just ask the seller to set up the camera in a closed room with the bellows extended and after turning out the lights have him put a short flashlight in the bellows point to the outside. Any issues with the bellows will be very obvious. I have seen bellows that were unused for over 10 years that were as good as new when put back into service. I have also seen bellows that have a service life of three years only determined to be shot when full bellows extension was in play and obvious light leaks in the negative area pointed in this direction. It all comes down to the quality of the materials used in making the bellows. If they were original Toyo bellows I would bet they are A OK.

[Jbuck]

Can somebody tell me what is this "loose" part?182263
Thanks for help guys, i just want to make sure what i buy

[B.S.Kumar]

That is the lock assembly.

Kumar

[speedfreak]

I've been using the 810MII for 6 months and really enjoy using it. Very intuitive to use in the field and the fine rear focus is silky smooth. I do have one small gripe: I wish there were (2) tripod attachment holes at the bottom of the camera. When I've used the camera with the Gitzo PL5 (old version on the 1570) its hard to get the 3/8" screw tight enough so that the camera doesn't want to rotate. Given the PL5 is old and the cork is pretty hard at this point, but it made me look to other options. Namely, something that keeps the camera from twisting and is easy to mount and dismount.
To back up just a little; an issue with most 8x10 cameras and 3-way heads w/o a quick release is that one needs to tip the head forward and balance the camera with one hand while trying to line up and tighten the attachment screw. This has always made me nervous especially with such an expensive camera.
A while back I adapted a arca swiss style quick release to the top of the Toyo TPMII tripod head that I have. I found an arca style 100mm camera plate with a shoulder on one end (I think these are used for the foot on 35mm telephoto lenses). The one I found only had a slot for a 1/4-20 screw. I lined up the plate on the camera with the shoulder indexing the back of the camera base and marked the location of the mounting hole. Drilled out to 3/8" on the drill press with a secure fixture (drilling a hole through a slot is tough because the bit wants to catch the side of the slot), then mounted the plate w/ a stainless 3/8-16 rounded head hex screw. Super solid!
I know that Ari had some info in a thread about using the Toyo branded anti twist plate to combat this same issue. I believe he came up with a home brewed solution as well. Ill post some pics in a bit of my setup.
Long story short, I love the camera and figure that I'll stick with her for a while!

[Jbuck]

Bellows extensions is the same on both (mki and mk2) disregarding the addition the 2 cm front standard reversal possibilities of the mk2?
I mean mk1 can also get up to 800mm ?

[Michael Kadillak]

I've been using the 810MII for 6 months and really enjoy using it. Very intuitive to use in the field and the fine rear focus is silky smooth. I do have one small gripe: I wish there were (2) tripod attachment holes at the bottom of the camera. When I've used the camera with the Gitzo PL5 (old version on the 1570) its hard to get the 3/8" screw tight enough so that the camera doesn't want to rotate. Given the PL5 is old and the cork is pretty hard at this point, but it made me look to other options. Namely, something that keeps the camera from twisting and is easy to mount and dismount.
To back up just a little; an issue with most 8x10 cameras and 3-way heads w/o a quick release is that one needs to tip the head forward and balance the camera with one hand while trying to line up and tighten the attachment screw. This has always made me nervous especially with such an expensive camera.
A while back I adapted a arca swiss style quick release to the top of the Toyo TPMII tripod head that I have. I found an arca style 100mm camera plate with a shoulder on one end (I think these are used for the foot on 35mm telephoto lenses). The one I found only had a slot for a 1/4-20 screw. I lined up the plate on the camera with the shoulder indexing the back of the camera base and marked the location of the mounting hole. Drilled out to 3/8" on the drill press with a secure fixture (drilling a hole through a slot is tough because the bit wants to catch the side of the slot), then mounted the plate w/ a stainless 3/8-16 rounded head hex screw. Super solid!
I know that Ari had some info in a thread about using the Toyo branded anti twist plate to combat this same issue. I believe he came up with a home brewed solution as well. Ill post some pics in a bit of my setup.
Long story short, I love the camera and figure that I'll stick with her for a while!

There is a very simple solution for your camera "twisting issues" you are unfortunately experiencing.

I have a Manfrotto hex 3/8" next quick release plate on the base of my Toyo 810 and I found an easy way take this issue completely out of play.

All you have to do is 1) open up the bail back, 2) push the leading edge of the film holder in the opening that the bail lever arm creates a short inch or so, 3) reach to the opposite side of the GG back from the bail and with the fingers on your left hand reach for the reversed bevel on the edge of the left side of the GG and pull the GG open so there is gap wide enough for you to freely and without any contact put your holder into proper position and then left your left hand carefully drop the GG onto the holder and then drop the lever on the bail arm and you are ready to make your image. When you have finished your image you perform the reverse exercise. Open the bail arm and then pull the left side of the GG free of the film holder and the film holder comes out free and clear unobstructed. I believe that this bevel on the opposite side of the opening bail arm to the GG was designed for this purpose. I have been using this technique for 10 years now and it works like a champ. Aside from removing any hint of torque on the camera by needlessly pushing the holder in position you are concurrently ensuring that frictional issues to the camera back on the film holder with forced insertion are also taken out of play. My film holders like like new and I like it that way because the film holders you have are likely going to have to last a long time. Just saying.

You want to spend extra money for anti torque components for the Toyo 810M and ram the film holders home than have at it. I am just pointing out a sensible and cost effective alternative.

[speedfreak]

True and very good instruction for proper use of the bail back and holder insertion; it’s what I do every time I make a picture. I never said that’s when I have an issue.
We both solved the problem by attaching a quick release to a the camera base; yours is a Manfrotto and mine is an Arca. My issue was with finger tightening a thumb screw into a heavy camera on top of an old Gitzo PL5. The finger tightening combined with the large platform and not-so-supple cork likely created a condition where the torque is spread over a larger surface area that’s not “grippy” anymore. So, while the camera wouldn’t move freely it would twist occasionally causeing me to look for a more solid solution. Now I can keep the tripod head flat and easily place the camera into position and lock it down. Might not be for everybody, but it works for me. Win, win!

[speedfreak]

...and I always hate seeing when guys just “slam” those film holders into place! Never made sense to me. Everything about the process is thoughtful and deliberate (for me) so I fail to understand why anyone would do that. I have the same reaction to seeing camera ads where you have a 70 year old beauty twisted into crazy positions. Those poor bellows! Like forcing and elderly woman into yoga poses. Just so unnecessary and borderline abusive!!!

[Michael Kadillak]

...and I always hate seeing when guys just “slam” those film holders into place! Never made sense to me. Everything about the process is thoughtful and deliberate (for me) so I fail to understand why anyone would do that. I have the same reaction to seeing camera ads where you have a 70 year old beauty twisted into crazy positions. Those poor bellows! Like forcing and elderly woman into yoga poses. Just so unnecessary and borderline abusive!!!

Absolutely agree. Most times there is a very minimalistic workable solution that allows form and function to coexist perfectly.

On my Ries A250 tripod head as well as on my Majestic tripod both of which are 6" square I glued cork auto gasket material onto the top of the metal surfaces and hand tightening as never let me down as it creates a great non slip surface on make up. The most important thing is to get out and use the equipment and become as highly proficient with it as possible.

[Dustyman]

I have two 810MII. Best designed back I've ever worked with. Holders glide in. Everything locks down tight. Nothing budges. I use it for field portraits. Silky smooth geared focusing. If you can find a clean one, or an 810M, just get it. I also have a 8x10 Sinar P2, and although a fantastic studio machine, I would never dream of hauling it outside.

[Dustyman]

...I'll add this: I also have a Deardorff V8 and an 8x10 Gandolfi Precision. They're also fantastic cameras and quite beautiful. But I'd always opt for the Toyo when shooting important projects in the field, hands down. Faster, smoother, sturdier.


I have two 810MII. Best designed back I've ever worked with. Holders glide in. Everything locks down tight. Nothing budges. I use it for field portraits. Silky smooth geared focusing. If you can find a clean one, or an 810M, just get it. I also have a 8x10 Sinar P2, and although a fantastic studio machine, I would never dream of hauling it outside.

[Dustyman]

Yup, I have a Linhof Quickfix II on my 810MII. A perfect combination.



True and very good instruction for proper use of the bail back and holder insertion; it’s what I do every time I make a picture. I never said that’s when I have an issue.
We both solved the problem by attaching a quick release to a the camera base; yours is a Manfrotto and mine is an Arca. My issue was with finger tightening a thumb screw into a heavy camera on top of an old Gitzo PL5. The finger tightening combined with the large platform and not-so-supple cork likely created a condition where the torque is spread over a larger surface area that’s not “grippy” anymore. So, while the camera wouldn’t move freely it would twist occasionally causeing me to look for a more solid solution. Now I can keep the tripod head flat and easily place the camera into position and lock it down. Might not be for everybody, but it works for me. Win, win!

[Michael Kadillak]

...I'll add this: I also have a Deardorff V8 and an 8x10 Gandolfi Precision. They're also fantastic cameras and quite beautiful. But I'd always opt for the Toyo when shooting important projects in the field, hands down. Faster, smoother, sturdier.

Amen.

I also have a Canham wooden 8x10 and a like new black Calumet C1 8x10 and like you I always opt for my Tan Toyo 810M for important shots as you stated - because it is quick, solid and exhibits silky smooth focusing. When you lock it down for a shot it stays put. The counter is that I can take the Toyo down with the same expediency as the front end setting up. I dearly love my Canham 8x10 and 8x20 woodies but they are 3-4X more cumbersome setting up and taking down relative to the Toyo. Sometimes on the trail or option for ULF you deal with the extra time but when you have a choice, the Toyo is my lead dog.

[Bernice Loui]

As previously mentioned, of all the 8x10 field cameras used over the decades, the Toyo 810M is excellent. Very stable, precision, stable and simply nice to use.


Bernice



Amen.

I also have a Canham wooden 8x10 and a like new black Calumet C1 8x10 and like you I always opt for my Tan Toyo 810M for important shots as you stated - because it is quick, solid and exhibits silky smooth focusing. When you lock it down for a shot it stays put. The counter is that I can take the Toyo down with the same expediency as the front end setting up. I dearly love my Canham 8x10 and 8x20 woodies but they are 3-4X more cumbersome setting up and taking down relative to the Toyo. Sometimes on the trail or option for ULF you deal with the extra time but when you have a choice, the Toyo is my lead dog.

[huangjie]

Why does this (TOYO 8×10 MⅡ） knob have no locking effect. Whether locked or released, the board can be bent forward? 221728

[huangjie]

What is this red button for?(TOYO MⅡ）221729

[Neal Chaves]

On my trusty 810M, it is a red line. When aligned with the top of the front standard this indicates the position at which the lens will be centered on the film plane when all other camera movements are square.

[Michael Kadillak]

Why does this knob have no locking effect. Whether locked or released, the board can be bent forward? (TOYO MⅡ）221728

Unfortunately, based on your description you have a problem with this knob. This knob is supposed to lock down tight as an integral requirement of using the camera properly. A recommended course of action would be to secure a copy of the party's schematic for the camera to identify the parts involved and speak to customer service at Mamiya in New Jersey. Hopefully they can recommend a "fix".

[huangjie]

On my trusty 810M, it is a red line. When aligned with the top of the front standard this indicates the position at which the lens will be centered on the film plane when all other camera movements are square.
Thank you for your reply! got it;)

[huangjie]

thank you!But this is not MAMIYA.This is TOYO FILED MⅡ。I and II, there are some differences between the two models.Can type I be locked?I asked a few friends. They use type II. Locking and releasing do not affect the front tilt of the board.This may be a design defect.

[huangjie]

On my trusty 810M, it is a red line. When aligned with the top of the front standard this indicates the position at which the lens will be centered on the film plane when all other camera movements are square.

TOYO filed 8×10 MⅡ → Now the Japanese do not produce with brand-new parts, but are assembled with so-called inventory parts. In fact, it was assembled after the unqualified parts were repaired. So these so-called new cameras can see some defects and traces.

[Neal Chaves]

TOYO filed 8×10 MⅡ → Now the Japanese do not produce with brand-new parts, but are assembled with so-called inventory parts. In fact, it was assembled after the unqualified parts were repaired. So these so-called new cameras can see some defects and traces.

Buyer beware. Scams are everywhere today.

[Cor]

Why does this knob have no locking effect. Whether locked or released, the board can be bent forward? (TOYO MⅡ）221728

Not at home to check my MK 1 (and use it far too little for such a nice camera), but isn't the black lever, just above the red circle the release for the tilt ?

Best,

Cor

[Michael Kadillak]

221772

OK. I found the parts schematic for the Toyo 810M and looking at it closely there are obviously a host of spacer washers involved in gaining tension to the lower front standard section with a tightened knob. Could be a wild one, but if the original parts are unavailable at the service center in New Jersey it may be possible to get thicknesses of these various components and find a "substitute" to get this issue resolved. Have to do something in the resolution department as in its current state it is a decorative item.

[Michael Kadillak]

221774

Apologies. I should have included the parts descriptive listing as well.

[huangjie]

Not at home to check my MK 1 (and use it far too little for such a nice camera), but isn't the black lever, just above the red circle the release for the tilt ?

Best,

Cor

There are two large buttons above the round knob. Press and hold them at the same time to tilt the panel back

[huangjie]

This operation221787

[huangjie]

Yes, the Japanese are bad and have a bad reputation :rolleyes:

[Cor]

This operation221787

You are correct, but your problem is when you tilt forward, or backward by lifting the levers, the big round knob does not tighten /fix the position, right ?

Cor

[huangjie]

yes. The huge round knob doesn't work. It feels like a decoration.
My friend, do you have this camera, too?