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Laurent Laval
1-Sep-2018, 10:44
Hi all,
looking for a sharp 300mm for landscape
I'm hesitating about these lenses

Fujinon-C 300mm f8.5
Fujinon-A 300mm f9
schneider G-Claron 305mm f9
Nikkor M 300mm f9

I don't know how to add a poll here but what lens will you pick
It is for Landscape at infinity or a bit closer and mainly for slide Velvia/Provia
Thank you

Peter De Smidt
1-Sep-2018, 10:55
Get the one that you can get in the best condition and for the best price. They are all fine lenses. For 4x5, all are terrific. For 8x10, the Fuji A. And the G-claron will have the largest useable image circles.

Laurent Laval
1-Sep-2018, 10:57
Get the ine that tou can get in the best condition and for the best orice. They are all fine lenses.

:) that's why I can't decide !!

Mark Sampson
1-Sep-2018, 11:12
They're all fine lenses. Buy the first good example that you find in your price range. For me, in 1990 or so, it was the Nikkor-M 300/9. I'm set for life with that lens.

Laurent Laval
1-Sep-2018, 11:16
Except the Fujinon-A, I thing the price of the 3 others are more or less the same,
there is only one Fujinon-A on ebay and it is awfully expensive !!

Jac@stafford.net
1-Sep-2018, 11:26
It is for Landscape at infinity or a bit closer

Ah, you are in Switzerland! Now I can imagine using a 300mm lens!
Best of luck. Good advice here!

Laurent Laval
1-Sep-2018, 12:03
Ah, you are in Switzerland! Now I can imagine using a 300mm lens!
Best of luck. Good advice here!

yep! this is my window's view :rolleyes:
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Sal Santamaura
1-Sep-2018, 12:09
If 4x5, the Nikkor hands down. If 8x10, the Fujinon A. I own or have owned all except the G-Claron. For 4x5, with distant landscapes, sharpness is the criterion of greatest import. For 8x10 under the same conditions, coverage should drive the decision. While a 305mm G-Claron will cover more than its specified 335mm @ f/22, that requires stopping down to at least f/32, and perhaps 4/45 if any significant movements are involved. The Fujinon A's 420mm image circle is available even at f/22, and it's multicoated vs. the G-Claron's single coating, important in high-flare conditions.

The 300mm Fujinon C I purchased brand new was the only one of that manufacturer's lenses I've ever encountered that exhibited low contrast. I don't recommend it.

Laurent Laval
1-Sep-2018, 12:14
thank you for your answer, I need 231mm coverage (6x24 format) so all of them are perfect !
I think I will go for the Nikon but not sure, I have read that the Fujinon A is more for close range picture.

Luis-F-S
1-Sep-2018, 13:17
Have you considered a classic lens? I use a12” Dagor although I have a 300 Sironar-N MC (or whatever Rodenstock calls them)

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Alan9940
1-Sep-2018, 13:19
I have both the Schneider and the Nikkor M lenses. The Nikkor is my absolute favorite for a longer focal length on 4x5. I do, occasionally, use the 305mm Schneider on my Arca-Swiss, but mainly use it on 8x10. As others have already said, you can't go wrong with any one of these fine lenses. Maybe I should mention that the Schneider lens is significantly larger than the others, if weight/portability is any consideration for you.

Leigh
1-Sep-2018, 13:49
Hi Laurent,

I would suggest the Nikkor W 5.6/300mm. It's a monster of a lens with a 420mm image circle.
I have one, and its performance is stunning. Plus you get more than 1 stop speed increase.

- Leigh

Bob Salomon
1-Sep-2018, 13:50
Have you considered a classic lens? I use a12 Dagor although I have a 300 sironar-N (or whatever Rodenstock calls them)

Last version was the Apo Sironar N. Version before that was the Sironar N MC. Yours apparently was the version before that.

Leigh
1-Sep-2018, 13:59
Last version was the Apo Sironar N.
What about the APO-Sironar S ??

- Leigh

Bob Salomon
1-Sep-2018, 14:01
What about the APO-Sironar S ??

- Leigh

Neither the Apo Sironar, The Apo Sironar W or the Apo Sironar S were the successor or the same as the Sironar, the Sironar N, the Sironar N MC or the Apo Sironar N.

Laurent Laval
1-Sep-2018, 14:10
Hi Laurent,

I would suggest the Nikkor W 5.6/300mm. It's a monster of a lens with a 420mm image circle.
I have one, and its performance is stunning. Plus you get more than 1 stop speed increase.

- Leigh
Yes but much bigger lens and almost 1kg more !!

Peter Collins
1-Sep-2018, 14:13
Laurent, grams become kilograms, and add up to more weight. If you plan to take your 300mm very far from a car, train, etc., you will like the Nikkor M 300mm. That's what I have.

Bernice Loui
1-Sep-2018, 16:10
Rodenstock, 300mm f9 APO Ronar.

Schneider, 300mm f9 APO Artar.

Goerz, 12" f9 APO Artar.

Boyer, 300mm f10 APO Saphir (shutter version not standard).

APO Nikkor, 300mm f9 (shutter version not standard).


On 4x5 film format, is there any really good reason to use a f5.6 lens with an over sized image circle that can cause excessive light to bounce around inside the bellows?
Over sized image circle is a problem not often discussed but often results in lower contrast due to internal reflections.. and no, light whacking the inside of the bellows does not magically go away. As for f9 full aperture, not really a problem to focus for a 300mm lens on 4x5. There is a very high price to pay for larger full aperture that is not likely going to be used.


Bernice

Laurent Laval
1-Sep-2018, 16:24
On 4x5 film format, is there any really good reason to use a f5.6 lens with an over sized image circle that can cause excessive light to bounce around inside the bellows?
Over sized image circle is a problem not often discussed but often results in lower contrast due to internal reflections.. and no, light whacking the inside of the bellows does not magically go away. As for f9 full aperture, not really a problem to focus for a 300mm lens on 4x5. There is a very high price to pay for larger full aperture that is not likely going to be used.

Bernice

you are absolutely right, in the Fotoman 617, Yaal Herman is adding some internal mask to avoid the flare due to internal reflections.
http://panorama.yaalherman.com/en/upgrading-fotoman-617-panoramic-camera/

Pere Casals
1-Sep-2018, 16:49
f5.6 lens with an over sized image circle that can cause excessive light to bounce around inside the bellows?
Bernice


adding some internal mask


Flare from the light bouncing in the bellows does not depend on the lens max aperture, but it depends on the excessive image circle. But that flare it's also perfectly addressed with a lens front hood.

Dan Fromm
1-Sep-2018, 17:11
APO Nikkor, 300mm f9 (shutter version not standard).

Did Nikon sell such a lens? And were you thinking of the 300 (tessar type) or the 305 (dialyte type)?

OP, I have a 300/9 Apo-Saphir and a 305/9 Apo-Nikkor, both in barrel and have used both front-mounted on a #1 shutter. I prefer the Apo-Nikkor because it is sharper at apertures larger than f/16. From f/16 down they're equal.

If you decide to pursue a 300/9 ApoSaphir in barrel be very careful and buy with the right of return. CEDIS-Boyer's fiches techniques say that the cells will fit a #1 but my lens' cells don't. skgrimes claims that the 305/9 Apo-Nikkor's cells will go into a #1. I doubt that they are direct fits, am not about to dismantle mine to check.

Luis-F-S
1-Sep-2018, 18:06
Schneider, 300mm f9 APO Artar.

Goerz, 12" f9 RD Artar.

On 4x5 film format, is there any really good reason to use a f5.6 lens with an over sized image circle that can cause excessive light to bounce around inside the bellows?
Over sized image circle is a problem not often discussed but often results in lower contrast due to internal reflections.. and no, light whacking the inside of the bellows does not magically go away. As for f9 full aperture, not really a problem to focus for a 300mm lens on 4x5. There is a very high price to pay for larger full aperture that is not likely going to be used.

Bernice

What I would use! Tiny lens in comparison to some of the other monsters suggested. I was thinking 8x10, not that "little" format. Exceeds the OP's IC requirement by about 1". Hard to beat an Artar for sharpness or color rendition.

12" Artar on right, 12" Dagor on left.

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Leigh
1-Sep-2018, 18:10
Over sized image circle is a problem not often discussed but often results in lower contrast due to internal reflections.. and no, light whacking the inside of the bellows does not magically go away.Hi Bernice,

I seldom disagree with you, but this is an exception.

Light hitting bellows does not "magically disappear". It gets absorbed.
The bellows on all of my view cameras are very much non-reflective.

I suppose some bellows may exist that would be otherwise.
And it could certainly be true of metal (non-LF) cameras.

- Leigh

Bernice Loui
1-Sep-2018, 19:17
300mm f9 APO Nikkor.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/APO-Nikkor-f9-300mm-Nippon-Kogaku-Japan-Lens-in-Original-Box/283120609209?hash=item41eb4da7b9:g:oYYAAOSwo9VbIcja

Not listed in the Nikkor catalog. Normally only the 305mm f9 is offered. Nikkor did make some non-standard focal lengths.

IMO, these are best used with a behind the lens shutter like Sinar for taking images to film.


Bernice



Did Nikon sell such a lens? And were you thinking of the 300 (tessar type) or the 305 (dialyte type)?

OP, I have a 300/9 Apo-Saphir and a 305/9 Apo-Nikkor, both in barrel and have used both front-mounted on a #1 shutter. I prefer the Apo-Nikkor because it is sharper at apertures larger than f/16. From f/16 down they're equal.

If you decide to pursue a 300/9 ApoSaphir in barrel be very careful and buy with the right of return. CEDIS-Boyer's fiches techniques say that the cells will fit a #1 but my lens' cells don't. skgrimes claims that the 305/9 Apo-Nikkor's cells will go into a #1. I doubt that they are direct fits, am not about to dismantle mine to check.

David Karp
1-Sep-2018, 20:00
They're all fine lenses. Buy the first good example that you find in your price range. For me, in 1990 or so, it was the Nikkor-M 300/9. I'm set for life with that lens.

That is what I did. I have a 300mm Nikkor M and am very happy with it.

ottluuk
2-Sep-2018, 02:51
Unless you really need 8x10 coverage, keep an eye out for a shutter-mounted 300mm APO Ronar. An excellent lens that can still be had for less than €200 (some patience may be required). There seems to be a renewed demand for lightweight 8x10 optics so prices are going up for the lenses mentioned in the poll.

I don't have a 305 G-Claron for direct comparison but I'd say that I prefer the rendering of my 300/9 APO Ronar to my 210/9 G-Claron (in identical Copal 1 shutters). Both are sharp but the Ronar seems to have a bit of extra "snap" at apertures larger than f/22 as well as smoother out of focus areas. Some of this will no doubt be due to the focal length difference but still...

Pere Casals
2-Sep-2018, 03:49
Hi Bernice,

Light hitting bellows does not "magically disappear". It gets absorbed.
The bellows on all of my view cameras are very much non-reflective.

- Leigh

The amount of flare generated by an excessive image circle it's easy to measure, and there is serious literature around about it. Even in the case bellows are not much reflective you can get very significative flare from an excessive circle.


For example a 300m 8x10 lens sporting 450mm circle, if used for 4x5, throws 87% of the circle light to the bellows, and under 14% to the film. Yes, the bellows are black and efficient (it may require two consecutive reflections...) but still a large circle generates flare.

A contributing factor is that the light that goes to the internal bends of the bellows are easy reflected to the film, and if we have a too compressed bellows then we have a lot of efficient reflectors throwing flare to the film.

Additionally, we can have our subject way less illuminated than background, this may increase flare by a factor of x8, because the relative luminance. Finally, we may not have the sun in the farming but we may have it in the image circle, working like an spot light inside the bellows...

Sometimes flare can even be good, for shadow detail, or if we want its effect in the image...

But the potential flare from an excessive circle cannot be overlooked. It's nice that a bare front hood can solve it...

Laurent Laval
2-Sep-2018, 04:56
.......It's nice that a bare front hood can solve it...

I found very difficult to know witch hood to use in LF lenses, I found J C O'Connell's HOODCALC.XLS document and it's helpful for that.
what do you think ?

Dan Fromm
2-Sep-2018, 05:54
300mm f9 APO Nikkor.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/APO-Nikkor-f9-300mm-Nippon-Kogaku-Japan-Lens-in-Original-Box/283120609209?hash=item41eb4da7b9:g:oYYAAOSwo9VbIcja

Not listed in the Nikkor catalog. Normally only the 305mm f9 is offered. Nikkor did make some non-standard focal lengths.

Bernice, you misunderstood my question. I didn't ask whether the 300/9 Apo-Nikkor exists, I asked whether 300/9 and 305/9 Apo-Nikkors were sold in shutter by Nikon.

The 300/9 and other tessar type Apo-Nikkors were cataloged in older catalogs. I have one. The first Apo-Nikkors released were tessar types. They were replaced by the dialyte types we know and love. See http://www.galerie-photo.com/apo-process-nikkors-en.html for a complete, I hope, list and more information.

Pere Casals
2-Sep-2018, 08:42
I found very difficult to know witch hood to use in LF lenses, I found J C O'Connell's HOODCALC.XLS document and it's helpful for that.
what do you think ?

An aproximative calculation is straight...

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If we have an square front hood...

> Red is the long side of the film format

> Green is the focal of the lens

> Pink is the side of the square front hood

> Dark blue is the distance where it will be the entrance of the front hood, it may take a bit more than in theory because front nodal point is a couple of cm more advanced than lensboard, the datasheet of the lens may tell that distance, but using a hood that can extend some 100mm more than what the simplified calculation says should be enough.


This is aproximative only, to know what kind of hood you want, because you end adjusting it in the field. You can calculate it with basic math or you can simply draw it in a big paper at 1:1 scale.

Luis-F-S
2-Sep-2018, 09:14
I thought the OP asked for recommendations for a 12" lens for landscape photography and gave several choices. Other choices were suggested for this consideration that he may not have been familiar with. That is what this thread should be about.

Drew Wiley
2-Sep-2018, 09:16
When using view cameras, hoods should be of the adjustable compendium type so you can adjust them relative to movements. Ground glasses are often clipped at the corners so you can look through them at working aperture and judge both lens coverage and whether or not a shade interferes.

Laurent Laval
2-Sep-2018, 09:28
I thought the OP asked for recommendations for a 12" lens for landscape photography and gave several choices. Other choices were suggested for this consideration that he may not have been familiar with. That is what this thread should be about.

You absolutly right, it's been a long time since this thread goes for other route :-)
but upon the Pool, I think I will go for the Nikkor lens

Laurent Laval
2-Sep-2018, 09:35
And I think I will buy this one Ebay : 323382101119
it is an large format AF lens !!!! :o

Vaughn
2-Sep-2018, 09:50
And I think I will buy this one Ebay : 323382101119
it is an large format AF lens !!!! :o
And the title says 300mm and the photo is of a 450mm lens...

Laurent Laval
2-Sep-2018, 09:51
And the title says 300mm and the photo is of a 450mm lens...

it should be a very unique and rare lens !! ...

Leigh
2-Sep-2018, 10:03
but upon the Pool, I think I will go for the Nikkor lens
The Nikkor M 9/300mm is an APO lens optimized for infinity focus.
It's a superb lens. I have one.

- Leigh

Laurent Laval
2-Sep-2018, 10:07
Now I have one too :-)
I just bought one from Ebay

Thank you all for your comments and participation
Cheers

Vaughn
2-Sep-2018, 10:59
Congrats -- hope it works well for you! I often photograph in low light situations (deep forest), so I appreciate the extra light thrown on the 8x10's ground glass by my heavy Fuji W 300/5.6. But I have used 19" and 24" red dot Artars under the redwoods...they are slow but they work well. Enjoy!

Laurent Laval
2-Sep-2018, 11:16
Thank you :)

Pere Casals
2-Sep-2018, 11:40
You got an excellent field glass, sure you won't regret, as Vaughn points that (usually) smaller aperture from field glasses may make harder to focus in low light conditions. This has to be addressed with a well light-tight dark cloth, in special if we are under sunlight but the subject is in the shadow. To focus at infinite we can use bright spots in the scene, even the moon itself it's quite useful to focus at infinite for night photography. With low light, for a near subject I place the smartphone on it with the screen on, also we can leave a flashlight on the ground illuminating it while focusing...

I use old convertible symmars that (when converted) should be focussed at the taking aperture (because focus shift), but with those tricks I get perfect focus even when focusing at f/32.

Greg
3-Sep-2018, 16:12
To me a lot depends on what film you are shooting to some degree and how will you be printing up your final prints to a major degree. In the 1970s started shooting 8x10 to learn the Zone System. Final prints were silver FB. Used a 12" f/4.5 Wollensak Velostigmat with the variable soft focus adjustment. Never did use that adjustment in my landscape and nature photography. When I started to shoot chromes in the 1980s, switched to a 12" Symmar-S. I dare say that the Velostigmat was never made for shooting 8x10 chromes of course. Was also making Lith prints from my B&W negatives at the time. For me the images made with the Symmar-S far superior for Lith printing when compared to the Velostigmat. Several years ago started to make digital negatives from the B&W images I had shot with the Velostigmat in the 1970s... printed on Platinum/Palladium. Made a some digital negatives from the B&W film negatives I had shot with the Symmar-S (or my 300mm G-Claron), and personally found the final Platinum/Palladium prints to be not to my liking when compared to the negatives that I shot with the Velostigmat. So now when I shoot B&W with my 8x10, my choice of lenses is based on how I am going to final print the negatives. Mostly shoot with the 12" Velostigmat, scan the negs, make digital negatives, and finally print on Platinum/Palladium. Would really love to shoot some scenes to be printed as Lith prints and would definitely use a modern formulated optic, but have been very disappointed with the current papers available for Lith printing. Over the years had accumulated modern optics for shooting commercial 8x10 work from 120mm to 508mm. But for 95% of my shooting choose the 12" f/4.5 Wollensak Velostigmat ... just love its Boken when final prints are Platinum/Palladium.

Cor
4-Sep-2018, 06:47
Just for future reference:not metioned is the "lowly" 300mm f/9 Geronar, it's multi coated, and said to be a good performer when stopped down to f22 or more..

I have it, but haven't used it a lot yet, let alone comapaired it to other 300mm lenses. Thusfar it performed well to my eyes, and it is light and compact..

Best,

Cor

Drew Wiley
5-Sep-2018, 13:56
The 300 Nikkor M is quite usable on 8X10 provided you don't need aggressive movements; the image circle is really a bit skimpy for that format. It's wonderful for 4x5. With such lenses on full 8x10 film one learns to use more rear tilt than front tilt, and to expose with well stopped down apertures. It's superbly color corrected.