Motorhome Location Vehicle?

[John Cook]

The satellite television channels I am frequenting lately seem to be running a plethora of programming and adverts related to RV’s. I am getting excited.

Having spent a portion of my youth at the periphery of the cinematography business in Hollywood, I am aware of the pleasure, perhaps the necessity of a location vehicle out of which to work.

I have loaded many Hasselblad film backs at the breakfast table, out of direct sunlight and blowing beach sand. I have done food shots with a stylist cooking the product in the RV kitchen. And many fashion shoots with models dressing, make-up artists smearing and dabbing and hair stylists frizzing away in the motorhome.

But now living in MA, just the thought of horsing one of these monsters around New England gives me pause. I know of no place to legally park one, excepting a commercial truck stop, an RV campground or an interstate service area.

You can’t just plop one anywhere you like, as in the Tom Selleck-narrated “Go RV-ing” commercials.

And then there are the roadside ditches in Maine. Both sides of rural (and some town) streets have 18" deep open water drainage ditches instead of storm sewers. Most are carefully camouflaged with grass and weeds. Just grinning and waiting for summer people.

If you pull off the road in Maine, you will instantly find yourself with the two right-hand wheels dangling in mid air and your vehicle sitting firmly on its frame. And not a cell phone tower for fifty miles.

And then there’s the cost. During a recent exploratory trip to the nearest RV dealer in Connecticut, I found a nice Class C model for only $160,000. Class A’s were priced as if they came from Boeing. Nothing at all less than 100K - even a trailer - figuring in the cost of a Chev Suburban to tow it around.

If I lived (and photographed) in the wide open spaces of the Wild West this would be a very different matter. But I just don’t think the Northeast is set up for this kind of behemoth.

Several years ago, I purchased a new Winnebago LeSharo. After two trips I concluded than anything nimble enough to scoot around Eastern roads is too uncomfortable to tolerate. Sleeping on the breakfast nook, pooping in a phonebooth while showering with a kitchen faucet hand-sprayer, and spending the evening hunched-over in a room with a 60" ceiling are really not my style.

So, has anyone managed to make one of these things work for location photography?

The idea of having a hot pot of coffee and my La-Z-Boy within feet of the tripod is certainly appealing in my golden years!

[J.L. Kennedy]

I pull a 22' travel trailer with a Chevy Suburban both of which I could replace for a total of about $10K. It doesn't bother me to poop in the phone booth, shower with a kitchen faucet, or sleep on the dining table, and my ceiling is at least 6'6". However, I understand what you are talking about regarding manueverability. Even in the west it nearly always requires vigilance and quick thinking to navigate an RV, and more so when you are constantly on the lookout for photographic possibilities. You are very limited as to the number of roadside pull-off areas that you can use, especially on stretches of road like highway 1 on the Big Sur coast. Considering how many hotel rooms one can rent and restaurant meals one can buy for the cost of an RV, I would recommend against the RV. When I get more financially able, I plan to make more road trips without the trailer.

[Paul Butzi]

I've traveled through all of the continental US states and all of the Canadian provinces except Nunavit and Newfoundland in four summer long trips with my family.

Two years were done in a 34 foot coach, and two years were done in a 40 foot coach towing a Land Rover Discovery.

I found it to be an excellent way for four people and one large Golden Retreiver to travel around and see things. We traveled throughout New England and did not run into access problems, nor did we have trouble fitting the 34 foot coach anywhere we wanted to go in New England. I will happily admit that the only time I thought we'd made a mistake was returning from West Quoddy Head to Bangor, where the road was torn up and consisted of gravel with about 4" of viscous mud on top - but truckers seemed to think the road was terrible, too.

The 40' coach we took across the southern US and back, and then up through BC to Dawson Creek, then up the Alaska Highway to Whitehorse, from Whitehorse up to Dawson, over the Top of the World Highway to Chicken, then down to Tok, followed by Fairbanks, Anchorage, and along the coast for the return. Much of the Alaska trip was on gravel roads ranging from excellent (e.g. Alaska Highway) to horrible. Possibly the worst paved section of road we encountered in four years was the Tok Cutoff, which had horrible heaves that resulted in 4 to 6 inch drops at the end of every paving slab.

But since you think these things are 'monsters' and that they're unworkable, clearly they're not for you.

And, of course, smaller coaches (like the van conversions, and the Winnebago you mention), all have more cramped quarters, convertable bunk arrangements, and typically have wet bathrooms (that is, the entire bathroom area serves as shower stall), and you find those arrangements uncomfortable.

We met lots of people on our trips, including one memorable elderly couple who had been living in a 19' Roadtrek van fulltime for several years when we met them in a small campground in (I think) Vermillion, Alberta, east of Edmonton. They marveled at our 34' coach but prefered the simplicity of living in the little Roadtrek.

In traveling by RV, attitude counts for a lot. If you're not accustomed to getting things out, doing some task, and then putting everything away, you'll find it impossible. If you constantly worry about not being able to fit the coach somewhere, you'll worry more or less non-stop. If you find cramped quarters burdensome, you'll be claustrophobic 100% of the time. In fact, unless you have a pretty postive attitude, you'll find even more things to complain about than you would in a house with a la-z-boy in the living room.

On the other hand, if you inculcate the attitude that living in the cramped quarters of the coach, complete with heat, air-conditioning, electricity, running potable water, a toilet, a shower, and a complete, functioning galley including a microwave oven, and probably a TV, you're enjoying a standard of living and spaciousness that the vast majority of humanity can only dream of, you'll find it an excellent way to travel.

[Bill_1856]

John, that's why they invented Holiday Inn and Best Western. (Personally, I'm a lot like Miss Piggy -- "roughing it" is when they cut off room service at 10 PM.)

[John Kasaian]

Anchorage in autumn is the time and place for deals on motorhomes. As far as owning one, I'm skeptical---even more so at $3/gallon gas.

OTOH, most Motel 6 have bathrooms than can be converted into nice dark rooms (no windows)with very little creative effort (a towel under the door.)

There is one motorhome I'm rather taken with---the Peterstream. Its an old Airstream trailer that a friend grafted onto the chassis of a Peterbilt cement truck with lowered suspension. The thing would thunder down the highway with the diesel engine at idle, probably getting better milage than most econo-coupes(as I recall you still couldn't stand a box of cereal upright in the kitchen cabinet since the roof was radiused (being an older airstream) Not a big deal considering that the beast looked reall really cool.

If I absolutely had to have an RV, I'd love to have that one.

I understand Wal-mart welcomes RV-ers in their parking lots.

I wouldn't mind having a VW camper, but I'm a closet flower child ;-)

[George Stewart]

For photography purposes, how about a 4WD pickup truck with a diesel engine (over 20MPG) and a camper back such as the rugged "Alaskan Camper." This would allow one to go almost anywhere (from remote parts of Death Valley/Alaska, to Madison Ave. in Manhattan, summer or winter).

[Andy Liakos]

We've been battling the RV question for a couple of years now. First, we thought about pulling a travel trailer with the F-150 Super Crew... no sweat, but not a terribly comfortable vehicle for my 6'6" son in the back seat. Then we were all about the Class C motor home, specifically the Four Winds 5000 28'. Great vehicle, but still not terribly comfortable for the passengers, and a bear to go to town to get a carton of milk. Sure, you can pull a toad, but then you have navigational issues (you cannot easily back up, etc.).

We think that we've settled on a new GMC High-top conversion van for the comfort of traveling (you know, a CD player to keeps the kids entertained for several hours at a time) with the captain's chairs for everyone, the ability to take our two 120lb Newfies, and the added ability to manuver reasonably around the drive-through for some fries and a shake.

The vehicle we have selected also has the HP to pull a 9800 lb travel trailer so that we have tolerable sleeping quarters for those times that we need to be at location at sunrise, without having to get up two hours before sunrise in order to get there.

This seems to be the best of all worlds (as far as we have imagined and fantasized about), and we will be able to haul all of our camera bags, tripods, etc. We can also lug a small generator so that we can have power if we're away from a full campsite (Tuweep Valley, at the North Rim of the Grand Canyon, for example).

We haven't found the perfect solution, but we think we're reasonably close. Now, if we could burn biofuel (biodiesel, except that the GMC doesn't offer diesel), or E85 (damn near impossible to find so far) we'd be even happier.

We're ordering the conversion van in November, and will follow up sometime about how well we did (or how stupid we were).

Andy & Ann Marie

[Henry Ambrose]

One of these:

www.scamptrailers.com/index.cfm?PageID=23 (http://www.scamptrailers.com/index.cfm?PageID=23)

This or the smaller 13' version would be nice once you get your mind around the compact size. The 16 footer can be outfitted with a larger bathroom option. These things are lots nicer than they might seem compared to a huge motorhome or trailer, especially if you are sleeping in a wet tent for the third day and look out and see the other folks -dry- under their roll out awning.

I want a 13 footer.

[Patrick Kolb]

Check out the website for Sportsmobile, they come in all sizes and many different floor plans. It's worth a look. www.sportsmobile.com

[Frank Petronio]

I once spent 3 months preparing a pitch to Airstream and learned a lot about the RV industry.

By used. With gas prices heading up and a constant churn of retired folks getting to old to drive, there is a plentiful supply.

While I myself have the same adversions to RVs as I do to mini-vans, the only one I would seriously be caught dead in is a customized Airstream. Towed by a nice 4x4. Having the separate vehicle makes more sense to me. And I would customize a used one to be photo-friendly.

As for having an armchair next you tripod, that would take some fancy driving. But what would be nice is a roof-top platform to shoot from - that would get you a lot of shots nobody would ever notice.

[John_4185]

Had VW campers - Westfalias. The air-cooled engine versions are way over their head on the American road. The metrics VW used were 60mph, 60,000 miles MAX and only if properly serviced, which meant lots of babysitting. The later watercooled head version was bigger and better, but still no great shakes. (Someone will pipe up that the VW Bus used a "Porsche" engine, but that's technically bull. The only "Porsche" that used the same engine was really a VW rebranded as Porsche for US sales: the 914.)

Airstreams are great. They tow beautifully. You MUST tow with a long vehicle, and a stabilizer helps. That's why, in part, you see so many Suburbans pulling 'streams.

Getting 8mpg and worse pulling a trailer meant parking more, driving less. Then it was just the Suburban. Eventually Molly and I removed the seats from the Suburban (which has a Geneva high-top which lets her stand up in the back) and fit a full-size futon, fridge and gas heater. This let us go where trailers and RVs could not. If we found an otherwise pretty good place which had other people there, I could jack it into 4WD and go where they could not go.

Now with the price of gas, we are giving away the Suburban and use a tent and hike - more like I camped when I lived in England - but not Mini yet.

As I've said before, I'm a Downwardly Mobile kinda guy.

All RVing takes is money, more and more every day.

[Scott Fleming]

Frank,

I'm always out in the sticks on top of my PU truck. I've even taken to carrying around a couple extra jacks to take that bounce out of the suspension.

Ever think of how many more shots could be gotten if one had a scissors hoist in the back of one's pickup? Wonder what I could get one of those things for?

[J Conrad]

What about the VW Rialta, put together with Winnebego. Not sure how much space you need but may be worth a look.

P.S. Happy to know our anti-touron ditching efforts are working up hear in Maine. Oh, and the cell towers are there, but someone keeps shooting them, just like the road signs...

[Donald Qualls]

Heh. On my budget, "RV" translates as "put the tent and Coleman cooler in the van and cash your paycheck for gas money." Unfortunately, places to pitch a tent are both much scarcer, and a lot more expensive than they were when my parents and I camped that way.

I do have a question, though -- how the heck to you guys fit a darkroom into the RV? Or are you telling me you seriously plan to go walkabout for photographic purposes, and leave all the processing (even the B&W) until you get home? One thing even the cheapest motel has, is a bathroom, and most of them have no windows -- a little gaffer tape and a towel under the door, and it's as dark as my home darkroom; no changing film in a dusty dark bag, heck, I could just about set up my enlarger in some of them...

[John Kasaian]

Interesting paradox. I go camping to get away from civilization, not to drag it with me. Photography is my way of sharing the glory of the outdoors with others (or recharging my short memory!) Even when the trip is driven by the agenda to "get" a certain shot or a particular subject I tend to camp as simply as possible. Erecting a tent is not that big a deal to me and car camping provides the luxury of having enough film holders to last until home or at least a Motel 6 somewhere on the horizon (as a last resort I have my cavernous Panavision changing bag)

OTOH I can see the benefits of an RV type vehicle, especially if photography was the main event, or if the subject was more urban in nature (or, I suppose if old age was seriously doing a number on me)

In my own way, I have two RVs. One is named Milly the other is Later. They are mules with a combined ear-span of maybe 49-50 inches.

OK, make it 3 RVs counting the mint green 130,000 miles on the OD ex 4x4 forestry service pick up that tows the stock trailer (mule chariot!) So for me its a matter of whatever you feel comfortable with and gets the job done.

If you can justify a "Class A" then you can. If you can't then theres always the ol' Coleman condo (or mules!) ;-)

[Larry Smith]

We haven't found the need for a rv yet. My wife and I use an eureka 10x14 tent. Easy to set up and take down. We carry an electric coffee pot, heater, flouresent lamp. We have room for a Queen size air bed plus two folding chairs and side tables in the tent. The changing tent works fine on the table or bed. It all stores nicely in the back of a F150 and when we arrive home fits out of the way in the garage. Happy camping and shooting.

[Michael Kadillak]

Pulled a pop up Coleman for several years and got tired of spending to much time setting up a camp or pulling one down. Took time away from photography so I sold it.

I agree with George that the best situation for a landscape photographer is a pop up bed camper in a diesel truck bed like the Alaskan and you just drive to where you want to call it a night and push a button to raise or lower your roof and in no time you are off to the next location. The four wheel drive and all of the power supplied by the diesel are just icing on the cake and can get you into the back roads without a concern about ground clearance and the huge rear cargo that follows you around with a standard trailer.

They do not give those Alaskans away thought. Anyone find an angle on these or a place to get them used, let me know.

Cheers!

[John Kasaian]

FWIW I've got a 9'x9' walled miner's teepee made from Relite. It goes up with one pole and the corners staked. Four more stakes and four short poles gives me a 24" wall which frees up floor space. Its a send beck from Cabela's that I got at Montana Canvas for a fraction of the cost new and is great for car camping and its light enough for the mules to carry. Its tall enough to stand up and change clothes which is pretty nice indeed compared to my old North Face V-24 which still occasionally gets pressed nto service where cars (and mules) aren't permitted. OTOH, if I had a long bed truck I'd right in line for one of those Alaska campers.

Cheers!

[Salty]

We've had a class A motorhome for 18 years now and it was nice to travel along with the tow car. Parking has never been much a problem, there are so many places that have RV parks. The downside is the gas mileage and there are places and times where heavy winds make it very unsafe to be driving a motorhome or pulling a trailer. Trips are now taken by passenger car and we stay in hotels/motels.

[Struan Gray]

I prefer to spend my money on a bivi bag and an end-of-trip booking (www.relaischateaux.com). If it's more than a couple of hundred yards from a Michelin star, it's not photogenic.

[Struan Gray]

Ahem. (http://www.relaischateaux.com)

[chris jordan]

Do you need to destroy the planet with hefty emissions to get good pictures? I don't think so.Where's all the haze coming from? I'd consider saving the money on a Toyota Prius Hybrid and booking very nice hotel rooms and Spas.

[Calamity Jane]

I have often looked up at those Luxury Liners of the Interstate with envious eyes! Alas, I have never been in that tax bracket :-(

Some 20 years ago, when my then-husband and I were looking for a traveling/camping rig to support fishing trips (his idea), dog shows (my idea), we considered many options and ended up buying a retired school bus. We were told to buy an International with a 345 engine and run it at 3,000 RPM and it would get 12 MPG - we did, and it does. We opted for the 76 passenger model since they sell cheaper than the smaller models (due to lack of demand) and it is very spacious inside. Although it lacks the headroom for a tall person to stand perfectly upright, I find ones doesn't spend much time standing bolt upright while indoors. It has served me well, requires little maintenance, and is handy to pull my steam engine and threshing machine on a 20 foot flatdeck trailer (about 5,000 pounds total).

I LOVE the convenience of a motorhome, whether designed as such or a "poorman's Winnebago" (school bus) and the modern gypsies are a friendly and welcoming bunch (even if your motorhome is yellow!) . There's no "set up" and no "tear down" - pull in, shut off the key, and you are THERE. In all our traveling with the school bus, the only modification I make to my pattern of living is to shop at malls (ample parking, good access). Truck stops are convenient over-night camping places with a motorhome - I always look for one with lots of semis - truckers are a pretty good lot and I feel much safer sleeping in the bus among a bunch of Knights of the Road than in a campground with rent-a-cop security.

Recently I have added a truck tent to my pickup truck for shorter trips http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/horizontal-item.jsp?id=0003781512246a&navCount=1&podId=0003781&parentId=cat20105&navAction=jump&cmCat=MainCatcat20075&catalogCode=IF&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat20105&hasJS=true

Neither of my vehicles are equipped with a darkroom but I have found my 20x20x18" portable darkroom has been adequate for everything up to 8x10, though I have thought long and hard about adding a darkroom to the bus.

Having so many options (bus, truck and tent, motel) is GREAT! I usually make my decision on type of transport based on 1 - how long I will be gone, 2 - how far I am going, and 3 - how much stuff I am taking with me. A lot of miles and a short time usually favour the truck and tent. A shorter trip with a longer stay favours the bus.

It is hard to beat the comfort and convenience of a motorhome but the gas companies are writing their own ticket these days and that HURTS! Maybe we ought to be brewing some good "shine" to power these things?

Making the decision on what kind of vehicle to travel with is a very personal matter. One person may feel that being warm and dry is worth $80,000 while the next person is happy camping in a tent.

Good luck with your decision and we'll hope to meet you on the road one day!

[Peter Collins]

Casita. Consider a Casita. Consider used. Check out www.casitaclub.com for lots of information.

We pull a 17-ft Casita with a Toyota Sequoia. Last year Alaska. This year, the West. This year, we got 11 - 14 mpg through the entire trip, and that was a lot of mountains. Previously, we towed the Casita with a Toyota Sienna, and got 12 - 15 mpg, but the tow was slow in the high passes.

Casita has bed, bath, refrigerator and stove. It is very compact--it is camping, not "motor homing." Has everything you need in (like Airstream) an aerodynamic package. But, in fiberglass, and so a LOT less weight than Airstream. Before buying Airstream (used, of course), start looking at the size of the vehicles towing them!

The Casita is only about 78" wide, is very easy to manoeuver, easy to drive, and it's easy to use regular side mirrors. You hardly know it is behind you until you look out your rear view mirror and only see the white fiberglass.

Yes, motels are fine, and high gas mileage is very, very important, but we got the Casita so we could go where we want and when. Dark night skies. Out-of-the-way National Forests. Photography and fishing for trout in small streams in the high places.

Finally, a travel trailer allows you to disconnect (about 15 minute job) when you're in a camp for a few days or week, and go around with just the tow vehicle, and get that highly-desired better gas mileage. A travel trailer also allows you a place to stay if you have to take your tow vehicle to a place for service or repair.

We have had the Casita (used) for 5 years now and I don't think we will ever "upgrade." We have little in common with most RVers--chiefly because they're dragging their home around. And, many of the rigs just can't go places--the manoeuvers are too much for the drivers. They can't, for example, go through the tunnel at Zion NP without an escort and extra fee because they have clearance only by driving down the center stripe!!

Small is beautiful. Check it out.

[John_4185]

My ex was a princess. She said, "Human beings haven't evolved for millions of years to go out and sleep on the ground for fun!" She also believed that Natural Childbirth meant "without makeup". I asked her if I could do nudes of her and she said "With the lights on?"

[Ted Harris]

4WD or AWD, IMO, is the only way to go in Northern New England. The amenities of an RV may be nice but it won’t get you to most of the places you want to go. I also strongly recommend a truck or a truck based SUV (e.g. Ford Explorer) with high clearance but NOT one that is too wide or has too long a wheel base. All of this is based on my own personal shooting habits and experiences throughout New Hampshire, Maine and Vermont. I frequently find myself on unpaved roads that we euphemistically call Class VI roads (means they are public but no one maintains them unless anybody who happens to live along them feels like it).

You won’t go anywhere on these roads with an RV, you won’t get far on most of them with a regular car or any 2WD drive vehicle and if you have a very wide or long truck you will never be able to turn around. Without my Explorer I plain couldn’t get to many of my favorite spots. As an example, the first image in the July-August “View Camera” article was taken several miles along an old unpaved logging road that likely has not seen any maintenance in some 30 years. Later today I will be shooting some miles north of the town of Center Sandwich, NH at a spot that is about a quarter mile hike off a road called the “Sandwich Notch Road” this is one of those roads that is great if you are driving a snowmobile or ATV and carefully passable in a sturdy 4WD vehicle ... it goes over the top of one of the shorter peaks just before you enter the White Mountains. later this week I will be spending a few days around Lake Umbagog along the northern New Hampshire/central Maine border ... a lot of the roads I will be traveling are not accessible if you don’t have 4WD, wouldn’t even try without. Places like this offer spectacular opportunities in Northern New England but you won’t get there in an RV. Sometimes you won’t even get there in a 4WD in the winter.

Having said all that I consider my Explorer to be one of my most important photographic tools.

[jrjohnson]

http://www.aliner.com/

[neil poulsen]

Keeping this thread related to photography, the niftiest outfit I've seen is a trailer affair which is about the size of a small tent trailer. It has two panels hinged to the front and back of the trailer that pivot up and connect at an apex above, like a teepee. Hinged on each side, two triangular pieces then pivot up to fill in the teepee with a door and some windows. It takes about two minutes to set up. Inside, one can have a small stove, cooler, heater, bed for two (or more, depending on size), two or three cabinets, and a small table. Sorry, no bathroom. You have to use the restroom. Very roomy.

This would be ideal for photography. One could drive in, leave it at a campsite, set it up in about five minutes and be out shooting in no time, say at sunset. Plus, one has some walls between them and the wilderness. A smaller one could be pulled by a Jeep Wranger, where one could stow their photo gear and have maximum manouverability to reach photo sites. Fits better into most photographers' budgets. They also don't result in insanely low gas mileage, which ultimately contributes to haze and poorer quality photographs.

[John_4185]

http://www.oldwoodies.com/img/trailers/47dodgebus-teardrop.jpg

[Harley Goldman]

I have a Northstar pop-up camper on the back of a full-size pickup. The roof cranks up and gives me about 6'6" headroom. It has a queen bed, dinette that converts to another bed, fridge, two-burner stove, HEATER and hot and cold running water. It has an outside shower, but no bathroom. I can have it set up in under a minute. Quite comfortable.

[robert_4927]

Land Rover Discovery

[John_4185]

I used to camp out of a VW Bug in Texas. Had just pulled into a campground, still in the Bug when a big Texan laughed, pointed at me an and said so everyone could hear, "Hey, you got sleepin room in there?" I said, "Yeah". "You got a stove?" I said, "Yeah", he asked, "You got air?", "Yeah, " You got...." and I lost it! I shouted, "Hey! Get to the point! You got me out of the shower for this bull?"

[Dave Benfer]

I'm a Airsteamer and a LF user. Often, at the same time.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/Boondockflyfish/sunriseairstreamandRainier.jpg

[John Cook]

This is probably more my speed, among the Maine balsams:

http://tentrax.com/OffRoadAT_Trailer.html

[Joe Smith]

LOL @ jj

Absolutely. Simplicity offers the greatest freedoms. In nearly all cases.

The little woman and I just pack up the 4runner with basics. The largest being a tent and the dining fly. Takes all of about 1 hour to set up.

Then it's time to relax...or take some photos :-)

http://www.three-six-zero.com/woods.jpg

[John Kasaian]

Great photo!

I just followed a motor home on the drive home from work last night in a gusty wind storm---No Thanks! I'll stick with my teepee!

I did sleep in a VW beetle one night. Once. I spent most of the next day at Barton Memorial Hospital---No Thanks! I WILL stick with my teepee

I'm head tent setter-upper at Girl Scout night at Bufante Gardens. I've seen every kind of tent and torture device posing as a tent imaginable---No Thanks! range teepees rock!