Types of Film Holders

[docw]

Is there a page somewhere that gives an overview of the different types of film holders (Regal, Fidelity, etc.)? I am interested only in the double-sided type and not Polaroid or Gramatic backs. If there is no such page, can someone give a quick rundown of these brand names and their differences?

I need to do some shopping for holders (mainly 8x10) and I don't really know the differences among them. I do know that I don't like holders which have a metal top to the slide. I prefer the plastic.

[Tin Can]

If we all decide to call one brand and design best we may be killing the market.

I do think a thread that allows us to discuss all the historical and current production glass and film types would be interesting.

[Bob Salomon]

You should bare in mind that for a good part of their life, up to the liquidation of their parent company, Calumet. Fidelity, Lisbon and Riteway were all made by the same company in Hollywood.

[Mark Sampson]

"View Camera" magazine published a comparison test of the common film holders c.1992 or '93. Perhaps that article can be found if they still have a website, or perhaps someone has a paper copy still. (My copies are in storage 2500 miles away.)

As I recall there wasn't much difference between the brands; the old wooden Graphic holders were surprisingly good. I'm sure at this point that the physical condition of the holder is the most important thing. Remember that no 8x10 holders were cheap consumer plasticrap... they were all designed and built for a demanding professional clientele.

(I've used plenty of worn wooden Eastman Kodak and Graphic holders... modern Lisco Regals and Riteways are much easier to use, but I never had a film flatness or unsharpness problem with any of them. Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe contact prints are more forgiving.)

[docw]

My main concern is to find holders that do not have a metal handle on the dark slide. I have both 4x5 and 8x10 holders where this metal handle has slipped off. It is rather difficult to fix them and I wonder about their reliability after this happens. I guess it is just age that causes it but I really do prefer the plastic handle on the dark slide, and so I would like to know which holders are which in order to do a proper search.

[John Kasaian]

If you want plastic for 8x10 with plastic slide tops, the newer Lisco Regal II will fill the bill.
I'd suspect the Fidelitie Elites are just like Lisco Regal II except for the name, as Bob Salomon mentioned they were made in the same factory

[John Kasaian]

IIRC, both Lisco and Fidelity are no longer in production. Maybe someone could verify this?
There is a Japanese brand that all the cool kids seem to be using these days, but I don't remember the name.

[Mark Sampson]

As Mr. Salomon mentioned, all three popular brands (Lisco Regal, Fidelity Elite, and Riteway) were made in the same factory, which in modern times was owned by Calumet. I assume that the factory closed when Calumet went under (if they hadn't already shut it down). Luckily for us, there are enough holders to go around.

[Bob Salomon]

IIRC, both Lisco and Fidelity are no longer in production. Maybe someone could verify this?
There is a Japanese brand that all the cool kids seem to be using these days, but I don't remember the name.

Fidelity,Lisco and Riteway all were liquidated along with the parent, Calumet, USA.f

[Per Madsen]

IIRC, both Lisco and Fidelity are no longer in production. Maybe someone could verify this?
There is a Japanese brand that all the cool kids seem to be using these days, but I don't remember the name.

The brand are Toyo.

[Jac@stafford.net]

There is a Japanese brand that all the cool kids seem to be using these days, but I don't remember the name.

Shenhao is another, but I don't know how cool they are.

[Tin Can]

Has Toyo fixed the ‘smell’ problem?

Are they still in production?

If so what sizes?

I have collected many holder types from Hasselblad to 14x17 over the last 7 years.

For a while is was easy to find 2x3 NOS.



But I am not an expert.





The brand are Toyo.

[Luis-F-S]

I need to do some shopping for holders (mainly 8x10) and I don't really know the differences among them. I do know that I don't like holders which have a metal top to the slide. I prefer the plastic.

As has been pointed out, there is no significant difference between the 3 plastic domestic film holders as they were all made by the same factory. If you want the ones with the plastic handles, then just buy those!

[Bernice Loui]

Some earlier plastic film holders have painted sheet metal as the inner flat where the film sits. Later versions of plastic film holders are made with grained finished aluminum that is black anodized. The grained finish can scratch film as the film is being loaded or unloaded. The painted sheet metal flat has a lower tendency to scratch film during the loading-unloading process.

Otherwise all three are pretty much the same.


Bernice

[John Kasaian]

FWIW I've never seen a Riteway 8x10 holder. Old style Riteway 4x5s are among my favorites, btw.

[docw]

As has been pointed out, there is no significant difference between the 3 plastic domestic film holders as they were all made by the same factory. If you want the ones with the plastic handles, then just buy those!

Thanks, Luis.

Let me make sure I have this straight. Riteway, Lisco, and Fidelity are all exactly the same, regardless of whether they are "Elite," except some have plastic handles and some don't. Is that correct? If it is, then there is no particular name I can use to search specifically for the ones with plastic handles. I will just do a general search and look for those little white handles.

Has no one else had the problem of the metal handles coming off? Is it just me (again)?

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks, Luis.

Let me make sure I have this straight. Riteway, Lisco, and Fidelity are all exactly the same, regardless of whether they are "Elite," except some have plastic handles and some don't. Is that correct? If it is, then there is no particular name I can use to search specifically for the ones with plastic handles. I will just do a general search and look for those little white handles.

Has no one else had the problem of the metal handles coming off? Is it just me (again)?
No, there were differences in the surface finish between the three and the last Riteway had an automatic locking system for the slide, didn’t work on Linhof cameras, and a built-in numbering wheel.

[Luis-F-S]

Thanks, Luis.

Let me make sure I have this straight. Riteway, Lisco, and Fidelity are all exactly the same, regardless of whether they are "Elite," except some have plastic handles and some don't. Is that correct? If it is, then there is no particular name I can use to search specifically for the ones with plastic handles. I will just do a general search and look for those little white handles.

Has no one else had the problem of the metal handles coming off? Is it just me (again)?

Don't make it harder than it is, go with either Lisco or Fidelity all plastic. Elite, Regal II, Deluxe and other names are mostly marketing and may reflect some minor changes in the finish of the holder (not the slide). Just don't pay stupid money for any of them.

I've got some 30 plus 8x10 plastic holders and don't have a clue as to what name is on them, and they all work!

[docw]

Don't make it harder than it is, go with either Lisco or Fidelity all plastic. Elite, Regal II, Deluxe and other names are mostly marketing and may reflect some minor changes in the finish of the holder (not the slide). Just don't pay stupid money for any of them.

I've got some 30 plus 8x10 plastic holders and don't have a clue as to what name is on them, and they all work!

Luis, the reason I started this little search is because I have at least half a dozen 4x5 holders and a few 8x10 holders with metal handles that have become detached. They are not easy to put back. The ones with plastic handles are all fine. So I don't really care who makes them and I had no idea they were all made in the same way by the same company. "Plastic handles" is not a useful search term and although a definitive name like "Beeblebrox II Elite" would have been useful, I guess it really doesn't matter. I am after any holder with a plastic handle!

Thanks for your help.

[Bernice Loui]

+ about 100.

Film holders are much the SAME, they all work if the film holder is in good condition. Condition of the holder is FAR more relevant than the brand... which are much the same. Have about 50+ 5x7 plastic film holders of different brands and vintage, they ALL work fine. Have about 20 13x18cm plastic film holders including Linhof thick pressure plate holders, they ALL work fine. No significant functional difference at all.

As for the metal handle dark slides, they work fine. What can happen, some users abuse them causing the metal bar with handle to loosen or come off. The metal bar can be crimped back on, problem solved.

One serious concern is dust, which must be managed and properly controlled or sad face will result post film development. Light leaks is the other. This is often due to wore out tape at the film holder flap. The tape can be replaced as needed. The tape that works well for replacement is black book binding tape. Other causes of light leaks is a wore out light trap where the dark slide lives then exits as the exposure is made. Putting the dark cloth over this area of the film holder before removing the dark slide can help some what to reduce the risk of light leaks. Keep the dark slides as clean as possible due to the risk of transferring dirt and other abrasive matter into the dark slide light trap. Other film holder surprises, not properly seating the film holder into the camera film back. Make absolute sure the film holder is locked into the camera film back slot and flat before trying to remove the dark slide.

Beyond these common sheet film holder issues, film flatness in holder which is should be addressed separately from film holder brand and basic film holder function.


Bernice




Don't make it harder than it is, go with either Lisco or Fidelity all plastic. Elite, Regal II, Deluxe and other names are mostly marketing and may reflect some minor changes in the finish of the holder (not the slide). Just don't pay stupid money for any of them.

I've got some 30 plus 8x10 plastic holders and don't have a clue as to what name is on them, and they all work!

[Bob Salomon]

+ about 100.

Film holders are much the SAME, they all work if the film holder is in good condition. Condition of the holder is FAR more relevant than the brand... which are much the same. Have about 50+ 5x7 plastic film holders of different brands and vintage, they ALL work fine. Have about 20 13x18cm plastic film holders including Linhof thick pressure plate holders, they ALL work fine. No significant functional difference at all.

As for the metal handle dark slides, they work fine. What can happen, some users abuse them causing the metal bar with handle to loosen or come off. The metal bar can be crimped back on, problem solved.

One serious concern is dust, which must be managed and properly controlled or sad face will result post film development. Light leaks is the other. This is often due to wore out tape at the film holder flap. The tape can be replaced as needed. The tape that works well for replacement is black book binding tape. Other causes of light leaks is a wore out light trap where the dark slide lives then exits as the exposure is made. Putting the dark cloth over this area of the film holder before removing the dark slide can help some what to reduce the risk of light leaks. Keep the dark slides as clean as possible due to the risk of transferring dirt and other abrasive matter into the dark slide light trap. Other film holder surprised, not properly seating the film holder into the camera film back. Make absolute sure the film holder is locked into the camera film back slot and flat before trying to remove the dark slide.


Bernice

Bernice, Linhof never made a “pressure plate film holder”!

That did make double sided film holders for sheet films and a double sided glass plate/sheet film holder. The latter one had a spring loaded plate to adjust the holder for the difference in thickness between glass plates and sheet film. It was not a pressure plate!
Additionally it also had an ejection lever to push the film/plate slightly out of the end of the holder to prevent scratching of the glass plate when removing it from the holder.

[Bernice Loui]

Dark slides with metal handles are vintage-age related more than brand related. Before the plastic dark slide handle came to being, the vast majority were crimped on metal with the metal wire handle. This was the way they were made, then the manufacturing of dark slides changed.

And yes, they get loose but can be crimped back on in a vise with two precision flat bard of metal. Adding adhesive can prevent future loosening. They are not repairable if the dark slide is cracked internally where the crimped metal bar meets dark slide. In this case, procure a known good replacement dark slide.

Bernice


Luis, the reason I started this little search is because I have at least half a dozen 4x5 holders and a few 8x10 holders with metal handles that have become detached. They are not easy to put back. The ones with plastic handles are all fine. So I don't really care who makes them and I had no idea they were all made in the same way by the same company. "Plastic handles" is not a useful search term and although a definitive name like "Beeblebrox II Elite" would have been useful, I guess it really doesn't matter. I am after any holder with a plastic handle!

Thanks for your help.

[Bernice Loui]

Yes, those are the Linhof film-plate holders. They have a spring loaded plate to take up the difference in thickness between film or glass plate. The spring loaded plate does apply pressure on the film or glass plate edges


Bernice


Bernice, Linhof never made a “pressure plate film holder”!

That did make double sided film holders for sheet films and a double sided glass plate/sheet film holder. The latter one had a spring loaded plate to adjust the holder for the difference in thickness between glass plates and sheet film. It was not a pressure plate!
Additionally it also had an ejection lever to push the film/plate slightly out of the end of the holder to prevent scratching of the glass plate when removing it from the holder.

[B.S.Kumar]

Has Toyo fixed the ‘smell’ problem?

Are they still in production?

If so what sizes?

The smell problem was fixed many years ago. I've been selling new Toyo holders from 2015 onwards, to people living in all kinds of climates. No problems.

Toyo makes 4x5 and 8x10 holders. I sell 4x5 holders for 8,460 JPY per twin pack, and 8x10 holders for 15,120 JPY. EMS shipping extra.

Kumar

[Luis-F-S]

Luis, the reason I started this little search is because I have at least half a dozen 4x5 holders and a few 8x10 holders with metal handles that have become detached. They are not easy to put back. The ones with plastic handles are all fine. So I don't really care who makes them and I had no idea they were all made in the same way by the same company. "Plastic handles" is not a useful search term and although a definitive name like "Beeblebrox II Elite" would have been useful, I guess it really doesn't matter. I am after any holder with a plastic handle!

Thanks for your help.

Just look at the photo, and if you can't tell, ask the seller. L

[Jac@stafford.net]

So which holders are infra-red proof?

[Bob Salomon]

Yes, those are the Linhof film-plate holders. They have a spring loaded plate to take up the difference in thickness between film or glass plate. The spring loaded plate does apply pressure on the film or glass plate edges


Bernice
It doesn’t apply any more pressure to sheet film then a Linhof double sided film holder does.

[Tin Can]

So buy new. Toyo

and https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/17542-REG/Fidelity_FI4500X2_4x5_Sheetfilm_Holders_2.html?ap=y&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIr6O70br_3AIVVrjACh3aVgCEEAQYASABEgJsPPD_BwE&smp=y

[John Kasaian]

So buy new. Toyo

I'd guess it all depends on the OP's budget.