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luis a de santos
17-Aug-2018, 13:32
Could anybody give me an idea of how much to pay for a grafmatic these days?.

Something in good shape

Lachlan 717
17-Aug-2018, 15:07
$70-$100.

popdoc
17-Aug-2018, 16:04
Less than $65 or less is fair if you’re patient ...


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Greg
17-Aug-2018, 18:05
Just make sure the Grafmatic is returnable. Many sellers are totally unfamiliar with them... Returned two that were described to be in EXC condition, but both were totally unusable.

Mark Sampson
17-Aug-2018, 21:12
Buy the cleanest ones you can find. Bent septums should be a deal killer. If a previous owner has removed the frame counter, so much the better.
I went through two rounds of using them, years apart, and after many lost images I gave up on them forever. That's just me though; one of my teachers used them on the job, successfully, for decades.

agregov
17-Aug-2018, 21:27
They're the worst when they get stuck in the open position in the field (cycling the magazine to a new septum and getting stuck). I recall on a thread once Bob Salomon found them too unreliable to sell at retail when they were still available. Apparently, there were US and German made versions and the US made ones were the most unreliable. But there was no way to tell the difference between the two.

I continue to scale back my use of them. They're just too old at this point. Unless you don’t mind reconditioning them yourself or buying 3-4 to find 1 that works, it would probably be better to skip them. If you don’t want to deal with lots of film holders in the field, then perhaps shoot with a roll film back.

Bob Salomon
17-Aug-2018, 22:05
They're the worst when they get stuck in the open position in the field (cycling the magazine to a new septum and getting stuck). I recall on a thread once Bob Salomon found them too unreliable to sell at retail when they were still available. Apparently, there were US and German made versions and the US made ones were the most unreliable. But there was no way to tell the difference between the two.

I continue to scale back my use of them. They're just too old at this point. Unless you don’t mind reconditioning them yourself or buying 3-4 to find 1 that works, it would probably be better to skip them. If you don’t want to deal with lots of film holders in the field, then perhaps shoot with a roll film back.
No, there were only US made ones. We were purchasing them from the last factory in FL to make them. We were buying them for Linhof and we sent all supplied to us to the Linhof factory in Germany. Upon receipt Linhof inspected and tested them and found better then 70% were defective and sent them back to us for return for credit to the factory. Needless to say, neither credit or improved ones were ever supplied to us or to Linhof!

LabRat
18-Aug-2018, 00:51
I think that they are a bit heavy, I don't like when I change my mind or the scene changes and the slide has been pulled, that it is difficult to get back to the unused sheet, and if I only shoot a couple of sheets then, it's hard to locate just the exposed sheets for processing... But can be good for travel, portrait, or location work where a larger #of sheets are needed...

Steve K

Alan9940
18-Aug-2018, 08:01
I have 6 of them and never had a single issue using 'em, but... A couple of considerations: 1) in my experience, the backs on many cameras don't open quite wide enough to easily slide the holder in, and 2) it's really not much savings with regard to convenience, space, or weight over 3 standard double-sided holders. Plus, as someone already pointed out its difficult to keep track of and find one particular sheet of film; for example, one sheet in the middle needs plus development.

Bernice Loui
18-Aug-2018, 08:57
Have two Grafmatics that were new in box purchased decades ago. Neither ever gave any problems when they were used. Think what happens with Grafmatics, the majority of them have been used a LOT and they have problems due to wear and abuse. All sorts of things can go wrong with them, from bent film carriers, to wore out guides, counters that stop rotating and more. Then there is the dust problem. When they are good, they are very nice to use and convent in many ways.

Overal mechanical condition is key for purchasing these as IMO, the vast majority are wore out or have mechanical problems today. Some of the Grafmatics offered for sale should have been scrapped decades ago due to their condition, but they find their way to users who discover a pile of problems with them resulting in a bad reputation for Grafmatics.

Stopped using them a long time ago when the 4x5 got essentially parked, they might still have film in them.


Bernice

Chauncey Walden
19-Aug-2018, 16:28
Back in the 1980s a whole bunch of them surfaced in Denver that were surplus from the USAF photography school there. Although mostly well used all the ones that I ended up with (6 I think) worked well perhaps due to proper maintenance. IIRC they went for $35. I dust everything well inside and out with an antistatic cloth and wax the contact points with bicycle IceWax. Several I have gotten since needed to have some of the septa straightened a bit. An old 6 inch stainless pocket rule works great for this maintaining a straight and uniform guide for the film. I have heard of people having problems by not loading the film completely into the far end of the holder and of people bending the septa by not retracting the little pusher in the loading bay when reloading the septa. Although I have several 10-shot Kinematics the Grafmatics work much more smoothly.

Bob Salomon
19-Aug-2018, 16:40
Back in the 1980s a whole bunch of them surfaced in Denver that were surplus from the USAF photography school there. Although mostly well used all the ones that I ended up with (6 I think) worked well perhaps due to proper maintenance. IIRC they went for $35. I dust everything well inside and out with an antistatic cloth and wax the contact points with bicycle IceWax. Several I have gotten since needed to have some of the septa straightened a bit. An old 6 inch stainless pocket rule works great for this maintaining a straight and uniform guide for the film. I have heard of people having problems by not loading the film completely into the far end of the holder and of people bending the septa by not retracting the little pusher in the loading bay when reloading the septa. Although I have several 10-shot Kinematics the Grafmatics work much more smoothly.

Since I went to the photo school at Lowry I wished you hadn’t pointed out that it is closed! However, in the early 60s they never gave us Grafmatics to use at the school.

Chauncey Walden
20-Aug-2018, 17:09
OK, Bob. Now everyone is wondering just what they did give you to use;-)

Bob Salomon
20-Aug-2018, 17:37
OK, Bob. Now everyone is wondering just what they did give you to use;-)

Plain old double sided holders.

cuypers1807
20-Aug-2018, 20:00
I have a few grafmatics that I only use with my Razzle 900 (Polaroid 900 conversion) for street photography. I found they were too heavy for my Chamonix 045N-2 and it was easy to get light leaks when shuffling the exposures. I had to return only one of the five I bought off ebay due to light leaks. I have one that will only cycle through the septums if pointed upwards. If a regular film holder fails then you lose one exposure... if the Grafmatic fails you loose all six. It is risky business.

Paul Ewins
20-Aug-2018, 20:11
... I dust everything well inside and out with an antistatic cloth and wax the contact points with bicycle IceWax. Several I have gotten since needed to have some of the septa straightened a bit.....

Ice Wax on the slides is one of the best suggestions I ever got from this forum. I check the septum for bends after every use. Usually it is just at the end and can be straightened carefully with a pair of needle nose pliers. A bend towards the middle is a different matter and the septum would probably need replacing. All of the grafmatics I have date from the Graflex days and while most of them look 60 - 70 years old I think maybe 80% of them still function perfectly well. I think the ones Bob rejected may have been the Singer branded versions. There is also the Fuji version (Fuji Quickchange) but I've only ever seen a few of those and they were very expensive.

Mark Sampson
20-Aug-2018, 20:17
For the record, Singer bought Graflex sometime in the 1960s. My father worked for twenty years at another Rochester company that was bought up by Singer at around the same time. After that company (Friden) closed its doors in 1971 or so, I can remember my father saying "Everything Singer touched went straight to hell" or words to that effect. Graflex would have gone down anyway but still...

Bob Salomon
21-Aug-2018, 04:30
Ice Wax on the slides is one of the best suggestions I ever got from this forum. I check the septum for bends after every use. Usually it is just at the end and can be straightened carefully with a pair of needle nose pliers. A bend towards the middle is a different matter and the septum would probably need replacing. All of the grafmatics I have date from the Graflex days and while most of them look 60 - 70 years old I think maybe 80% of them still function perfectly well. I think the ones Bob rejected may have been the Singer branded versions. There is also the Fuji version (Fuji Quickchange) but I've only ever seen a few of those and they were very expensive.

No, Singer sold Graflex to a company in FL, small husband and wife company. Those were the ones that failed, and that was the last of Graflex/Graphic as a stand-alone. Whatever was left went to Toyo’s parent,.

jim10219
22-Aug-2018, 09:06
Bent septums I can deal with. If they can't be straightened out, you can buy more on eBay. What gets me about them, is the light seals. Once they break down, they're very difficult to replace. I must have replaced the seals in mine 5 times now, trying to get everything just right. Finding wool felt as thin as the originals has been really difficult for me. Most of the wool felt I've found is too thick and causes the Grafmatic to bind up. Then there's the question of the springs that go under the felt. If those are corroded, broken, or worn out, they're not easy to replace/remake. You can buy some metal stock from McMaster Carr, but they don't come in the right size, and you have to carve out a bunch of the material to get them at the right tension. It's a huge pain.

All in all, I'm not a fan. I've had issues with film holders getting locked up, light leaks, and dust. Even when everything works perfectly, they're still no lighter than 3 Fidelity/Lisco film holders, and just barely smaller in size. Plus they're more fiddley to use and you don't have that convenient spot to write on the film holder to keep track of everything. They're not the worst thing in the world, but to me, they're more novelty item than serious photographic tool.

LabRat
22-Aug-2018, 15:09
The other thing that can cause a jam is when shooting a vertical, the newer thinner film can slide a little out of the septum and not advance... I haven't tightened the end of the film grooves that secure the sheet from falling, but I must before using again...

Steve K

Paul Ewins
22-Aug-2018, 21:36
No, Singer sold Graflex to a company in FL, small husband and wife company. Those were the ones that failed, and that was the last of Graflex/Graphic as a stand-alone. Whatever was left went to Toyo’s parent,.

Ah, good to know. Thanks Bob.

Kevin Crisp
26-Aug-2018, 07:00
They weren’t all made in the US. There were some UK-manufactured ones. I had one. It did not work and I used it for parts. Did not work even though it looked brand new. I have around 10 of the US ones. Some of them work 100% and some have occasional hiccups. I put a check mark in the white box on the back every time I have 6 successes so the most reliable ones stand out. Still, on an important trip, I take a little changing bag just in case I have an issues that might otherwise result in losing negatives fixing it.

The metal the septums are made of seems very brittle and trying to straighten them much is difficult.

Chester McCheeserton
26-Aug-2018, 15:09
I used them for years but would agree with what others have said that in the end felt they just weren't worth it over conventional holders. I would get an occasional sheet that wouldn't stay slid all the way under the small space at the end of the septum resulting in the image going right up to the physical edge of the piece of film and sometimes loosing 1/16th or 1/8th of an inch.

Someone, I think it was Norman McGrath at the Maine Media workshops, showed me how to remove the annoying numbering wheel using a screwdriver and needle nosed pliers, when I highly suggest doing if you don't want to crop every single picture shot with them.

They save volume over 3 regular holders but not much weight.

LabRat
26-Aug-2018, 15:59
My friend's father shot the entire early space program with them as a pro with a large aerospace subcontractor... Most of his location/outdoor work was shot with them...

I ended up with them, and very worn looking, they still work well after service was given...

Some minor issues, and after mending (and proper procedure loading and using), and they are still going...

But still not my choice if only a couple of sheets need to be exposed...

Steve K