View Full Version : Thinking about switching to "exclusively" LF
andreios
2-Aug-2018, 03:41
Friends, apologies for this ramble, maybe I just need to sort some thougts, so I take advantage of this group therapy... :))
I've been away from the forum for some time, being waay too busy with other things (job+publishing business+family+academia) but in all this I have rather painfully realized how much do I miss photography and te joys (and pains) of it. It isn't that I did not touch a camera in months, I did take now and than something "small" (that is, medium) with me on business or family trips, but it was usually just a TLR or my fuji rangefinder. After developing the rolls (often months after shooting them) I have sometimes realized that many of those negatives should not have been taken and were result of just some impatient urge to bring home a negative, so to speak...
In recent weeks I have slowly started to prescribe myself a "tripod cure" - "anchor" myself again and restrict to (at least) a 4x5 pinhole which makes me much more selective, and seeing the first result I am contemplating a self-imposed "fasting" period of anything smaller than 4x5, or rather, anything with a viewfinder (which apparently makes me snappy) - and to slow down and think and maybe come home "empty-handed" but knowing that I have been honest with my eye and mind and have not pressed the shutter in vain.
I don't know if this makes sense, but I was wondering, whether anyone went trough a similar "stage" and with what results...
Thank you for any thoughts...
Just to remind you that you can take pictures with a viewfinder camera as slowly as you want and can with a LF camera. But you cannot take pictures as conveniently and quickly with a LF camera as you can with your viewfinder camera.
In other words you don't need to drag a LF camera to slow yourself while picture taking. This urban myth is becoming too old.
hi andreios
the trick is to do what you like and like what you do :)
if that is with sheets instead of rolls that's great !
thing i like about sheets is they can be sheets of anything
( glass, metal, paper, plastic ) not just panchro film :)
have fun!
john
Great idea. Why not.
But at least in USA we don’t dare leave home without a cell phone which now always has a camera.
I need it in case I fall and can’t get up...
Last weekend my grandson showed me how fast he could start recording a cell phone video.
Very fast! He’s 16 and quick at everything.
andreios
2-Aug-2018, 04:49
Just to remind you that you can take pictures with a viewfinder camera as slowly as you want and can with a LF camera. But you cannot take pictures as conveniently and quickly with a LF camera as you can with your viewfinder camera.
In other words you don't need to drag a LF camera to slow yourself while picture taking. This urban myth is becoming too old.
Of course you are right... But somehow it is difficult for me "take my time" composing in a tiny view/rangefinder... Also, but of course this is only marginal, it is easier to "throw" a couple of sheets in the developer than waiting for another chance to finish a roll. Last time I developed some such rolls and to this day I have no idea where/when did I made those negatives... Silly me, I know :)
Pere Casals
2-Aug-2018, 05:20
In other words you don't need to drag a LF camera to slow yourself while picture taking.
yes, this is completely true.
But a period of intensive LF usage is always a good training. I my personal case I feel that LF teached me a lot of things, with the image upside down in the GG I learned to approach to the scene in another way.
Of course LF it is not necessary to practice that, but LF forces the photographer to develop better habits.
Another thing I found (a bit difficult to explain it) is that LF helps to get self awareness in front of the subject, so the way the photograher goes to the subject/scene experiments a development.
So IMHO a good photographer does not need to drag LF gear around to take good images, as you say, but at least for a rookie like me it forces an impressive learning.
I have sometimes realized that many of those negatives should not have been taken and were result of just some impatient urge to bring home a negative, so to speak...
Oh boy, that is all too recognizable... :eek:
However, consider this: what was lost as a result of your urge to take a negative home that didn't meet your expectations when you examined it? A few cents' worth of film and developer? An hour of your time? It is not a zero sum game.
I've pondered the same thing you are doing, and I'll likely keep doing so. Maybe I'll 'grow up' sometime and dedicate myself to one camera system, one film and one printing process. Maybe I'll remain an omnivore as long as I can keep it up. Who knows?
All I know is that I just do whatever I feel like. Often it's 35mm for portability, and you bet I take home many more negatives than I 'should'. Then again, for every 30 negatives that I 'should not have made', there is one that I wouldn't have made had I worked more deliberately and that does hold a worthwhile surprise for me.
For me, there is no evil in shooting a negative too many. It makes me much sadder if I fail to shoot one I should have.
Why worry about it?
Seriously, it's just not that big a deal....whether you make a "good" negative or not, whether you use a camera or a cell phone or you just go without, it just doesn't matter.
Just get on with it and enjoy your life, do what you like, love even....don't do what you don't want to.
Leave your socks right where you take 'em off and fail to clean up the toast crumbs for a day...
Just be happy and don't fret about shit that, ultimately, does not mater.
Peace.
Doremus Scudder
2-Aug-2018, 10:03
Do what makes you happy. A few worthless 120 negs are better than a few worthless 4x5 negs :) FWIW, I suffer from the "have to take home a negative" syndrome at the LF level. Sometimes I need to just make an exposure to get the creative juices flowing and the eye working; then the next set-up is more aligned with my vision.
As for strictly LF... Years ago I found myself with my MF camera on a tripod, cursing at it because it had no movements. I switched to LF and never looked back. I took out my TLR for a few handheld shots about 8 years ago. There's half a roll of unexposed film in it still; never have got around to shooting the rest of it nor developing what I took.
My 4x5 field kit is light enough that I don't feel much of a disadvantage over smaller cameras and I really don't do much hand-held stuff anyway. For snapshots I always have my iPhone...
Best,
Doremus
Sounds like using the MF camera has kept your wheels turning. That has been the case with me many times. For example, when I was a stay-at-home dad to a new set of triplet boys, time for LF photography was seriously curtailed, as well as any darkroom work. However I found that a Polaroid SX-70 camera and film kept me thinking photographically...and in a challenging and rewarding way. At least until the boys started to crawl and would no longer stay in one place long enough! Eventually, the Rolleiflex and the 8x10 could be used to and the boys could accompany me into the redwoods and become part of my photographic work.
Going with just LF for awhile is a great idea, if it keeps you centered that is a wonderful benefit -- but keep film in the MF cameras!
After 40 years of LF work and being thoughtful/selective before and after setting the camera up, my 'keeper' rate is not too bad. At the same time, I do not use a high rate to judge my success. If my keeper rate was very high, I would suspect myself of making too many safe images...not taking enough chances...not pushing forward.
Go for it!
neil poulsen
2-Aug-2018, 12:04
One can take a deliberate approach in other formats. I gravitate to 4x5 most of all. But, I also have a strong affinity for medium format; there's something economical about it, what with more conveniently sized cameras, film takes up less room, advantages of multiple film holders, etc. So, I have a 6x9 view camera, plus a couple of other medium format cameras.
For color photography, I prefer digital and have an ancient Kodak SLR/c that, given enough light, produces excellent files. My lenses include 24mm and 35mm perspective control lenses. I almost never use this camera off a tripod; by the time I decide on perspective (camera position), composition, and exposure, it takes me a fair amount of time to "properly" expose an image. I also take multiple exposures, so that I can blend them for improved dynamic range later. Capturing images with this camera doesn't seem like that much different from using a view camera.
It seems like you're looking for some measure of logic in posting this thread. Logic can be comforting. But is logic really necessary? Go where gravity pulls you the strongest, whether it be with one or multiple formats or mediums. I think that's probably been my approach, and it's been rewarding.
andreios
2-Aug-2018, 13:23
Oh boy, that is all too recognizable... :eek:
However, consider this: what was lost as a result of your urge to take a negative home that didn't meet your expectations when you examined it? A few cents' worth of film and developer? An hour of your time? It is not a zero sum game. (...) For me, there is no evil in shooting a negative too many. It makes me much sadder if I fail to shoot one I should have.
:) I'm glad I'm not alone... Of course, no harm done in bringing home a "bad" negative, it is just that I am sort of worried that if prolonged it may result in loosing some part of the skill / habit / whatever and result in an unwelcome sloppiness... So this self-imposed exercise of mine is mainly meant to be a means of keeping not only my eyes open but also the "photograpic muscle" in reasonable shape...
Why worry about it?
Seriously, it's just not that big a deal....whether you make a "good" negative or not, whether you use a camera or a cell phone or you just go without, it just doesn't matter.
Just get on with it and enjoy your life, do what you like, love even....don't do what you don't want to.
Leave your socks right where you take 'em off and fail to clean up the toast crumbs for a day...
Just be happy and don't fret about shit that, ultimately, does not mater.
Peace.
Cheers :) I'm not sure my wife would agree about the socks, and the kids may pick up (yet another) bad habit from that... But as I said above - it is mainly about keeping the skill in shape... Of course I can take pictures with my cellphone, but there is no pleasure about it. I personally need to have the image in my hands to enjoy it... :)
andreios
2-Aug-2018, 13:24
Do what makes you happy. A few worthless 120 negs are better than a few worthless 4x5 negs :) FWIW, I suffer from the "have to take home a negative" syndrome at the LF level. Sometimes I need to just make an exposure to get the creative juices flowing and the eye working; then the next set-up is more aligned with my vision.
As for strictly LF... Years ago I found myself with my MF camera on a tripod, cursing at it because it had no movements. I switched to LF and never looked back. I took out my TLR for a few handheld shots about 8 years ago. There's half a roll of unexposed film in it still; never have got around to shooting the rest of it nor developing what I took.
Indeed, even in the past sometimes I had to just "somehow" make the first negative to get started, especially on a "big" location like some old monastery or similar... But what you say about lack of movements does resonate with me... I think it may be partly that reason why I think some of the MF negs "not good enough"... Quite often there is this prickly tought - "if I had a view camera with me I could correct this I could adapt to that..."
andreios
2-Aug-2018, 13:26
Sounds like using the MF camera has kept your wheels turning. That has been the case with me many times. For example, when I was a stay-at-home dad to a new set of triplet boys, time for LF photography was seriously curtailed, as well as any darkroom work. However I found that a Polaroid SX-70 camera and film kept me thinking photographically...and in a challenging and rewarding way. At least until the boys started to crawl and would no longer stay in one place long enough! Eventually, the Rolleiflex and the 8x10 could be used to and the boys could accompany me into the redwoods and become part of my photographic work.
Going with just LF for awhile is a great idea, if it keeps you centered that is a wonderful benefit -- but keep film in the MF cameras!
After 40 years of LF work and being thoughtful/selective before and after setting the camera up, my 'keeper' rate is not too bad. At the same time, I do not use a high rate to judge my success. If my keeper rate was very high, I would suspect myself of making too many safe images...not taking enough chances...not pushing forward.
Go for it!
Thank you for your words, Vaughn, much appreciated... keeping centered - that's the word I've been probably looking for..
faberryman
2-Aug-2018, 14:01
Not sure why you have the need to make a decision to shoot LF exclusively. Just shoot it without preconception until you don't want to anymore.
Peter Collins
2-Aug-2018, 14:14
Personally I find LF--for me 4x5--rather greatly different than photography in smaller formats. GG vs viewfinder, whether SLR or rangefinder. Some MF provides some of the experience of larger formats, I agree.
I also chime in to say that happiness is important. Maybe supreme. (If it isn't fun, drop it and do something else.) "Exclusively LF" is a discipline, nothing more. If it causes some interior distance from happiness, then drop the discipline.
My personal experience and personal opinion!
Jac@stafford.net
3-Aug-2018, 08:51
Creative constraints can guide one along a path of pleasant discoveries, away from distractions. Try it, and for longer than is comfortable so that you can know if you have chosen the wrong limits.
Example. Once after a disruptive move, I attended a photo workshop overseen by a well-known critic. I had no camera and no darkroom. An assignment was a self portrait. Horrors? Sure, but it was also a liberating experience. So what is photography? One view includes photograms but that was ruled out due to having no dark space at all. I did have a small oven dish, a few small sheets of paper, developer, fixer and water.
So I took the chance - in daylight I applied a thin layer of waterproof grease to my face and pressed the paper emulsion side to my face. It took several attempts and a few beers. :) Then developed the paper in a tray, rinsed and fixed it. Clearly, areas where there was grease on the emulsion did not develop. I washed only the most promising 'print'.
And here is my self-portrait! (http://www.digoliardi.net/sp.jpg)
We use to do that to the windows of Forest Service trucks -- as they drove up the dusty roads, a dust-face would start to appear on the window!
Great image, Jac!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3vW1kglEnk
Jim Brandenburg did not use a Large Format camera but I believe his journey can help with your clarifying what is important to you.
He set a project of one image a day. 90 days. One trip of the shutter, not shoot like hell and pick out one image from each day.
In many ways similar to what you say you want to do. So, watch it and take from it what you will. It is your time and effort and yourself you are trying to please as you photograph.
Jac@stafford.net
3-Aug-2018, 11:52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3vW1kglEnk
Jim Brandenburg did not use a Large Format camera but I believe his journey can help with your clarifying what is important to you.
I attended a show of Brandeburg's journey, and our university hung the same images on our second floor, where I worked, so I know them.
My first reflexive though was 'bull, those are highly selective images from many more', then after a long time it occurred to me that his vision is real. Why question brilliance?
I attended a show of Brandeburg's journey, and our university hung the same images on our second floor, where I worked, so I know them.
My first reflexive though was 'bull, those are highly selective images from many more', then after a long time it occurred to me that his vision is real. Why question brilliance?
Will agree here.
I go out with my Uncle and we come back with some images. I photograph what I see - he photographs what he "feels" and generally a lot fewer exposures than I do. He is not hunting with exposure. He is a lot more careful with composition - even with fast moving subject matter. I think that comes from his shooting pro sports for so long as well as newspaper work. In addition he somehow "has it" where I'm often still looking for a composition.
One thing I have learned from him and his friends like Tillman Crane and Chuck Kimmerle is that there are great images where we live. Have had the hardest time through the years thinking I'll go somewhere else and come up with killer photos. Now I know if it can't do it at home I won't do it on the road. I'll just get photos of different scenery, terrain, towns and people. Not better, just the same old stuff in a different location.
Hope our topic starter finds what he is looking for. His own images, done his way and pleasure in the journey.
Kirk Gittings
3-Aug-2018, 21:21
totally agree
yes, this is completely true.
But a period of intensive LF usage is always a good training. I my personal case I feel that LF teached me a lot of things, with the image upside down in the GG I learned to approach to the scene in another way.
Of course LF it is not necessary to practice that, but LF forces the photographer to develop better habits.
Another thing I found (a bit difficult to explain it) is that LF helps to get self awareness in front of the subject, so the way the photograher goes to the subject/scene experiments a development.
So IMHO a good photographer does not need to drag LF gear around to take good images, as you say, but at least for a rookie like me it forces an impressive learning.
andreios
4-Aug-2018, 06:26
Thank you friends for all your thougths and encouragement...
And thanks for the Brandenburg link - I never heard of him, I'll watch the film tonigt.
There was a mention about discipline as something that is too confining - of course it is a matter of personal "setting" so to speak, but generally, I do value "discipline" in many other areas of life in general and I do think that "correctly" or "reasonably" used discipline is able to bring a lot of (inner) freedom...
So in this way, as Pere mentioned, the LF is not a goal in itself, but only a means to stronger awareness / steeper learning curve
For those who can not watch an hour of Jim, here is my important takeaway.
Move the tripod during the shot!
This is great. 30 seconds https://youtu.be/Y3vW1kglEnk?t=2006
Took a look at your site, and the subjects you see and shoot, as well as the alternative process beautiful work lend themselves to LF, so keep doing what you are doing...
But for a wide range of photographs, different formats/media are your friend, too... If you went to a birthday party and needed a selfie with the cake to send out that minute, your LF process would not be the tool for the job, so you would decide what is better for the shooting on hand... (But I can't imagine you trying to shoot what you do with a cameraphone, so continue doing what you are doing!!!
Steve K
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