Tripod questions, chamonix 045N-2, hiking

[Meekyman]

Hi Folks,

I go hiking with my Chamonix 045n-2 and want to lighten my load. I have fairly light camping kit/boots and to reduce weight any further probably means reducing the weight of my tripod.

I currently use a Manfrotto 055MF4, that weights 2Kg, purchased back in 2008. It has a payload of 7Kg and my head, which I don't want to change, is an Arca Swiss Z1, weighing 600g. My heaviest lens is a 90mm f6.8, so I guess the weight of the camera + heaviest lens + head is around 3 kg. Pretty close to probably what is a "safe" limit?

I'm thinking of a Gitzo 2545T, weighing 1.3 Kg, with 12 Kg payload. Hell of a cost to save 700g, around £1/g!!

My question is whether moving to such a light tripod might take away some stability? Could it end up "top-heavy" and more susceptible to wind/topple over. I do all I can to try to prevent this anyhow, in terms of using my slight frame to act as a windshield, but whn your head is in the "hood" that's not always so easy!!

Anyone know if you can attach spiked feet to that particular model? Also, without raising the centre column, max height is 134 cm. Probably OK, but how stable is it to raise that column. I've always though it's generally a useless tool if you want stability.

I had a Feisol before the Manfrotto and never liked it - legs not firm at all. Have they improved much? Is the Feisol Tournament 3442 OK with a light wooden field camera?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Graham

[Greg]

For hiking with my Chamonix Whole Plate camera I use a BENRO carbon fiber TAD28C Adventure tripod. Made a set of spikes for it that are easily interchanged with the stock rubber ends but rarely use them. Normally use a Manfrotto MHXPRO-3W head that has been adapted to take a Kessler Crane Kwik Release Receiver, but lots of times to save weight I use an Oben BE-126 head which also has been adapted to take a Kessler Crane Kwik Release Receiver. The Oben head really looks to be too small to solidly hold my Chamonix Whole Plate camera on it, but I've many times used it to hold my 8x10 Chamonix and it just plane works. Also lots of times attach a typical plastic "grocery bag" to the bottom of the column and fill it with rocks to more stabilize the whole setup. If setting up the tripod in or near a stream, fill the bag with water (or ice in the winter) instead of rocks. Started off by attaching my backpack to the bottom of the center column, but soon realized that because of its size and bulk, I would end up accidently kicking it, plus was a pain to remove my meter, film holders, or whatever from it.

[Jeff Keller]

Generally a center column is not very stable. Novoflex makes a tripod that seems to match the heavier 2 series Gitzo such as the GT2532 but gets up to eye level without a center column. You can get the tripod with the "Triobalance" leveling head. They are expensive at about $1K but for large format the built-in leveling head would quite likely be all you need.

A 3 series Gitzo without the center column such as the GT3543LS only weighs about 4.5 lbs and would be much more stable than the GT2545T.

I use a GT1544T with my mirrorless SLR and love it's light weight but the camera has superb vibration compensation so the tripod doesn't need to be super stable. I wouldn't even try it with a large format camera.

[Greg]

Generally a center column is not very stable. Novoflex makes a tripod that seems to match the heavier 2 series Gitzo such as the GT2532 but gets up to eye level without a center column. You can get the tripod with the "Triobalance" leveling head. They are expensive at about $1K but for large format the built-in leveling head would quite likely be all you need.

The Novoflex TrioBalance 3, 4, or 5 - Section Carbon Fiber Tripods are among the best that I have ever handled. If you're serious about obtaining one, just make sure that you check out what the tripod's maximum height is when all the legs are extended... the one I looked at was just shy of my average working height, so had to pass up on getting it. Price is right up there, but they are a good example of the adage "you get what you pay for".

[Meekyman]

Thanks Greg and Jeff.

I've not heard of Novoflex. Are they pretty stable and not gimmicky?

Cheers

Graham

[Peter Collins]

I have a Chamonix 45N-2, about 1,550 grams, and I mount it on a Photo-Clam PT024 carbon fiber tripod. Tripod spec sheet says it weighs 0.8 kg, and its max load capacity is given as 6 kg. I use it with Photo-Clam's "Professional Ballhead," which (I think) is model PC-44NS, no longer available.

My experience is that stability has to be managed carefully with this set-up. By managed, I mean using extreme care that all moveable parts of the camera and tripod are tightened. I often use a sack to attach to the hook at the base of the center column, and fill it with whatever is handy to lower the center of gravity and increase stability. On some shoots I will wait for a breeze or worse to lessen before tripping the shutter.

The reason I went this way is that I am 73 years old, and even with a light camera and lighter tripod, my whole kit (300, 210, 150, 90) weighs 18 lb (~8.2 kg), and on most days, that's enough. Formerly I used a small steel Bogen tripod, and it was too heavy.

One advantage of the Photo-Clam PT024 is that it is extremely compact when folded up; I shove the center column to its max (upper) extension, and fold back the legs so that the tips are lying against the ball head. Better seen than described!

I am happy with this set-up. I hope this information is helpful.

[consummate_fritterer]

I have an old Velbon Carmagne 640 4-section carbon fiber tripod. It doesn't quite extend to eye level unless I use the center column. I will never use a center column due to vibration issues. It was more than sturdy enough for the Chamonix 4x5 I had. If I needed more height I would have taken an 8-foot ladder and a clamp to attach the head/camera to the ladder. Of course using the ladder would require working within a few yards from my old pickup truck.

[Drew Wiley]

Get rid of the head. That's where a lot of unnecessary weight and instability are found. I haven't used a tripod with LF camera for decades - totally redundant.

[Bob Salomon]

Get rid of the head. That's where a lot of unnecessary weight and instability are found. I haven't used a tripod with LF camera for decades - totally redundant.

You haven’t used a tripod?

[Peter Collins]

Drew, please re-read and re-phrase. If you mean getting rid of the n-way head or 2-way head, please elaborate!
Thanks!

[Chester McCheeserton]

I use a now discontinued Gitzo carbon fiber 3530S which was the 3 section legs (only two locks each leg) that came without a center column, just that round plate that you can directly screw on the arca Z1, (which I also use, and don't plan to ever part with). I think the closest equivalent they sell now is this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1328225-REG/gitzo_gt3533sus_systematic_tripod_ser_3_3s.html

It only goes up to 50 inches high, which depending on your height can be a little low, and I guess it's only a tad lighter than the manfrotto you have now. But I found the height was perfect for me with a 5x7 Deardorff (the camera adds the needed height), I'm 5'11".

It's super stable and while I usually prefer to use the center column (which I picked up years later) when hiking for ultimate pared down set up it's pretty good. I think this would be way more stable than what you are using now, and IMO a stable tripod does much more for sharper negs than any APO glass does. I would never go back to using a tripod that had more than 2 leg locks after using this for 10 years.

Drew may also have a point about the head. It weighs a lot, and although I love it and always use it when I hike or travel, (I use plain old Bogen 4047 3- way when in town) if I was setting up a camping minimalist tripod I'd look into just using a leveling base. ( although I think he does use a tripod?)

I remember finding one on the web several years ago that looked fantastic, think it was some obscure swiss or European company, it had two tightening knobs instead of the usual one but looked rock solid and ultralight, can't for the life of me remember what it was called.

[Jeff Keller]

When I ordered the Novoflex Triobalance with 4 section carbon fiber legs I thought it was going to be a little short for an SLR at eye level (I'm 5'10") but I found on level ground I don't extend the legs all of the way. It is just short of 22" when collapsed so it will just barely fit inside of U.S. carry on luggage.

When my Novoflex was brand new, the legs seemed to require unscrewing the locks further than a Gitzo requires. As it's aged the legs seem to slide through the leg locks easier.

The quality and finish seems to be pretty comparable to RRS which IMO is somewhat better than Gitzo. Note, a 2 series RRS uses larger diameter CF tubes than either the Novoflex or 2 series Gitzo.

With the Novoflex fitting inside of carry on luggage and being tall enough with no center column, it is a favorite.

jeff

[Greg]

Thanks Greg and Jeff.

I've not heard of Novoflex. Are they pretty stable and not gimmicky?

Cheers

Graham

Have owned several Novoflex items over the years and all have been of a high level of design and construction. "Gimmicky" would not be a work to describe Novoflex equipment in my opinion.

[Drew Wiley]

Just bolt your camera via a turnbolt directly to a tripod platform top. Some CF tripods need the top slightly modified to create a good platform (I've done it with both Gitzo and Feisol CF's.) Ries wooden tripods come that way standard, so you can look at the picture of one of those to get the concept. After that, it just takes a little practice to learn how to quickly manipulate the legs themselves using no head. It's how early surveyors routinely did it for over a hundred years, often in very precarious places, prior to modern self-leveling theodolites. Otherwise, the problem with too light a tripod in combination with a lighwt field camera is that the whole system can be affected by wind. For your camera, I wouldn't personally want a tripod less than 3lbs (about 1.5kg). Of course you can add rock wt to it using a hanging sack. But once the tripods themselves employ excessively thin tubing sections, you get torsional flexing. Advertised static weight capacity can be misleading.

[Mark Darragh]

Good to see you are still getting out there, Graham.

For really light weight trips I use an Old Silk Pro 713CF II (centre column removed) that I picked up cheaply years ago. Combined with a FLM CB-32 (350g) ball head, it comes in a shade over 1.5kg. I comfortably run my Toho on this and even an Arca-Swiss monorail at a pinch. The big drawback is the lack of height at 135cm. The trade-off for lighter weight will invariably be things like maximum height and stability (and you're bank balance;).

I also do lots of close up work with the camera near to or pointed at the ground so I regard a ball head as being essential. YMMV.

If you really want to pare down the weight look across the board at everything you are carrying, as my hiking mates always remind me, it all adds up. For instance, a smaller ball head will be half the weight of your Arca-Swiss but still handle the Chamonix on an appropriate ‘pod.

All the best

[Meekyman]

Thanks everyone - Drew, Jeff, Greg, Chester, Mark and others for taking the time to reply.

I was thinking about your suggestion Drew of just using the legs alone, maybe with a levelling base, and, like Mark, I do a lot with the camera pointed at or near to the ground. Just don't think it would work for me. I can fully understand the benefits, but can imagine having to forever to be fiddling with the tripod legs. I'd never heard of Novoflex. I'm going to look into their products a bit.

Drew, I understand about torsional flexibility and that's wy I don't want to go too thin on the tubing sections. Any idea of what is "excessively thin" tubing?

Mark - it's still good to be getting out! I take your point about looking across the board in terms of camping kit. I realise I can shave a few hundred grams inexpensively, and will do that, but I already have a lightweight tent, sleeping system and the rucksack has some weight to it so that I can carry the weight I am. After that it's down to the tripod/ball head. Any views on the Markins q3i - seems rated for 30 Kg and only weights 375g, saving me 300g.

https://www.photoproshop.com/Tripod-Accessories/Ball-Heads-Tripod-Heads/for-lens-up-to-200mm/Markins-Ball-Head-Q-Ball-Q3i-Emille.html

Cheers

Graham

[Mark Darragh]

Interesting you mention the Markins Q3. I've had one for over ten years, it used to live on my Silk 'pod before the FLM. It now resides on a Gitzo series 2. So far no issues and it works as well today as the first day I used it. Personally I'd take the 30kg rating with a grain of salt but I have used mine with couple of different 8x10 camera so your Chamonix would be fine.

Regarding saving weight on hiking gear, I carried a new 70l pack on a week long trip in South West Tasmania in March. It weighs 1kg less than my regular 90l pack but I still managed to have a starting weight of about 25kg including 3 litres of water onboard. Not light by any means!

[Two23]

I've been using a Feisol 3441T carbon fiber tripod for the past year with my Chamnonix 045n, along with either an AcraTech Ultimate ballhead or a PhotoClam. The tripod extends to eye level without a center column. (I don't like center columns.) The set up is sturdy enough but I stay within reach when it's windy. I'm out in pretty rough weather and conditions and the Feisol has held up well. I also have a Gitzo 1325 tripod for heavier duty. I use the Feisol for hiking in the mountains and airline travel. I've been happy with it. I researched tripods a year & half ago as I wanted something lighter to hike with, and came to the conclusion that the Feisol was my best combination of cost and performance.


Kent in SD

[andreios]

I've been using a Feisol 3441T carbon fiber tripod for the past year with my Chamnonix 045n, along with either an AcraTech Ultimate ballhead or a PhotoClam. The tripod extends to eye level without a center column. (I don't like center columns.) The set up is sturdy enough but I stay within reach when it's windy. I'm out in pretty rough weather and conditions and the Feisol has held up well. I also have a Gitzo 1325 tripod for heavier duty. I use the Feisol for hiking in the mountains and airline travel. I've been happy with it. I researched tripods a year & half ago as I wanted something lighter to hike with, and came to the conclusion that the Feisol was my best combination of cost and performance.


Kent in SD

I have been recently thinkig about a feisol as well - I have a 3 series gitzo that I use on day-hikes, but it would be nigh on impossible to take it on a plane.. I have been looking at the same feisol but the whole idea of center column sort of scares me with the LF. I have been thinking more in the lines of feisol CT 3401 without ANY center column thing. It folds uner 50cm which would fit a carry-on trolley or a backpack I think...
Anyone any experience with this particular tripod?

[Two23]

Anyone any experience with this particular tripod?


I took the center column out of my Feisol 3441T--it's tall enough I just didn't need it. Camera is at eye level without it. tripod came with an insert (about an inch high) that has a mounting plate on it. I've never used the center column. Tripod folds up to fits in even my small carry-on bag.


Kent in SD

[andreios]

I took the center column out of my Feisol 3441T--it's tall enough I just didn't need it. Camera is at eye level without it. tripod came with an insert (about an inch high) that has a mounting plate on it. I've never used the center column. Tripod folds up to fits in even my small carry-on bag.


Kent in SD

Thanks, i didn't know that's possible. But then, essentially, you are left with what really does seem almost identical to the CT 3401 set of legs - at least when I look at the specifications at their european website. Buing the thing without the column in the first place would save me practically 50% of the price.. Strange indeed.. :)

[Megapixel]

I can not provide advice on tripod legs since I will also be looking for lighter legs. However I can suggest two alternatives for lighter weight heads plus one unconventional head, and a light way of stabilizing a tripod.

I use an Acratech GP-ss (https://www.acratech.net/ball-heads/gp-series-ball-head/gpss-ball-head/) model with the Arca-Swiss compatible clamp, double speed knob locking. This weighs only 380 grams, max load 24 lbs or 11.4 Kg, and has the unusual feature (along with some other Acratech ball heads) of being able to mount it inverted so that the ball-head also becomes a leveling head. If you also shoot smaller formats this head can function as a type of gimbal head if you occasionally need one for birds-in-flight, sports, etc.

The only other ball head I know of using an inverted ball design (and thus self-leveling) are the Arca-Swiss Monoball p0 (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013734-REG/arca_swiss_801_214_monoball_po_ballhead_with.html) head models. This is also light at 400 grams and has plenty of load capacity, 44.1 lbs or 20 Kg. Both heads are priced similarly.

If you shoot panoramas with smaller formats, the leveling capability plus the panning part of the head at the top make these attractive, light, heads for panoramas. You might calculate how much weight saved per dollar buying one of these heads vs a lighter tripod.

The third head possibility is less expensive and not one I would have even considered until I saw Henry Hudson's videos (video1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epPSQaYnU8M), video2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU_gAV5rLuk)) on why he likes it, a Manfrotto MVH500AH Fluid Head with Flat Base (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/944774-REG/manfrotto_mvh500ah_pro_fluid_head.html). $120, weighs 900 grams, max load 11 lb or 5 Kg. Normally these are for videography but this particular fluid head can make for a good still photography head. His website blog (https://www.hudsonhenry.com/blog/fluidheads) provides additional details. He abandoned using an Arca-Swiss ballhead for the fluid heads.

Finally, one additional way to stabilize a tripod is an elastic bungee (shock) cord to the tripod's weight hook. The elastic cord is then tied to a non-elastic line with a loop. You stretch the cord and hold it on the ground with the loop around your foot. Make the loop adjustable by making by forming the loop using a taught-line hitch (also known as a rolling hitch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_hitch)) to allow adjusting the length.

[Drew Wiley]

Center columns are just one more source of voodoo vibration when in comes to large format usage. So subtract their added height from any realistic height expectations. It's kinda like expecting something for nothing when it comes to tripod weight and cost. Toy tripods might be OK for little toy cameras.

[angusparker]

For hiking / traveling I use a Benro C0180T Travel Flat Tripod for my 4x5 with a RSS BH25. Very light weight and does the job passably. Sadly they don't make it anymore. It's not my go to if I can afford to carry more weight - I have a RSS tripod that I use with 8x10 and up with various larger heads that is quite a bit more stable and more mass.

[Chester McCheeserton]

in my earlier reply at the end I realize what I was thinking of was not a leveling base but a Burzynski ball head.

http://www.naturfotograf.com/burzynski.html

Anyone on here currently using one of those with their box camera?

sounds like finding one now is likely difficult...

[Bob Salomon]

in my earlier reply at the end I realize what I was thinking of was not a leveling base but a Burzynski ball head.

http://www.naturfotograf.com/burzynski.html

Anyone on here currently using one of those with their box camera?

sounds like finding one now is likely difficult...

We used to be the distributor in the USA for them. Most were sold to Ken Hansen in NYC. You are right, they will be hard to find!

[Chester McCheeserton]

Thanks Bob.
I guess they are not that light either. Another unicorn to add to the gear I'm missing that in my head prevents me from making great photographs.

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks Bob.
I guess they are not that light either. Another unicorn to add to the gear I'm missing that in my head prevents me from making great photographs.

No, they were not all that light.

Take a look at good 3-leveling heads like Linhof’s and good leveling balls like Novoflex and Linhof’s.

Or tripods with leveling heads or leveling columns like the Berelbach Report.

[Leszek Vogt]

Wow, this time I totally agree with Drew about the center column introducing vibration = instability.

Overall, I'd look at your (OP) priorities and try to find proper overall balance. Getting solid support is a bit of a unicorn. There are so many parts to the equation: height of the person, solidly build tripod, excellent ball head, price, its size when folded + some more.

First, I have no idea why one would even consider a tripod (Gitzo or any) with a center column. Granted, they may be lighter, but *much like the 055* tend to introduce questionable stability. Sure, the equation might be different when one uses lighter rig such as SLR/DSLR/Mirrorless.

It's less relevant what I use. I happen to like Z1 ballhead, but there are several respectable companies such as FLM, Markins, RRS, Novoflex and few others that make excellent items. Much like the tripod, one has to look at the quality, what it can support, what weight does it add to the overall package (camera accessories, food/drinks, lenses, film holders), bla bla bla.

I was looking for a *lighter* weight tripod and if it would not fit my frame (tall) or unable to fit into my duffle bag suitcase...for travel, I may have had to look elsewhere. It's all relative and so is the price.

Anyhoo, one has to determine own equilibrium on this subject.

Les

[andreios]

I was looking for a *lighter* weight tripod and if it would not fit my frame (tall) or unable to fit into my duffle bag suitcase...for travel, I may have had to look elsewhere. It's all relative and so is the price.

Les

So what did you find /choose in the end? I'm curious because I'm somewhat struggling to find a set of legs reasonably small when folded yet reasonably tall for my six ft three in...

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

[Leszek Vogt]

So what did you find /choose in the end? I'm curious because I'm somewhat struggling to find a set of legs reasonably small when folded yet reasonably tall for my six ft three in...

Sent from my Redmi Note 4 using Tapatalk

It's a CB Feisol (bought in 2012), that does not have center column. It works on everything I have, including my 5x7 or 400/3.5 (rather large hunk of glass) with DSLR. Not sure I'd recommend for something like 8x10. It works for me, tho.

Les

[andreios]

It's a CB Feisol (bought in 2012), that does not have center column. It works on everything I have, including my 5x7 or 400/3.5 (rather large hunk of glass) with DSLR. Not sure I'd recommend for something like 8x10. It works for me, tho.

Les

Thanks! I've been eyeing them as well. I have my series 3 gitzo legs that I can use under my 8x10, but they seem an overkill when hiking with my half plate toyo that's quite compact.. The only thing that worries me is that with the desired folded lenght to fit cabin baggage when flying the tripod will not be tall enough for my height.. But then, better to crouch than to leave the camera at home.. :)

[Alan Gales]

You haven’t used a tripod?

Bob, Drew uses his tripod. He just doesn't use his head. ;)

[Bob Salomon]

Bob, Drew uses his tripod. He just doesn't use his head. ;)

He had a funny way of stating that!

[Drew Wiley]

I made a typo. It's obvious at this point what I intended to say. It's simple torque-vector physics. Get rid of the fulcrum point. The bigger the platform atop a tripod, the better, then bolt the camera right to it. If you are addicted to tripods heads, fine; but never claim they are the most dependable way to get the job done. I use a basic Gitzo pan/tilt head for 35mm work as well as MF applications using moderate lenses, never a big telephoto. 8x10's and monorails particularly risk wobble. I haven't used a tripod head for LF work for the past three decades. The Sinar panning top eliminates some of the risk as does the low-profile Ries platform device. But if you want the most secure attachment as well as significantly reduced weight, just eliminate the head altogether. If you need to point straight down, make a bolt-on right-angle bracket. All you'll lose besides redundant weight is a pricey gadget transaction! Call it impractical if you wish; but I've routinely had view cameras in far more precarious places than most of you would ever go. And there especially, the benefits of going headless become apparent. Save those ballheads for gifts to headhunters in central New Guinea. They can find a handy display-post application for them, and your own unreasoning head might find a permanent home.

[Alan Gales]

I knew it was a typo. I just wanted to make a pun. ;)

[Drew Wiley]

I didn't find it punny. Anyway, my headhunter remark ... In the 1940's it was popular for rich tourists to vacation amidst primitive people. A remote Indonesian island was attempting to take tourists by canoe to stay in tribal long-houses way upriver. The authorities thought it might help to send western-style beds to the long-houses in lieu of the usual hammocks. But the handful of tourists would instantly return in a panic. So they hired my aunt and uncle to scope out the situation, since they were very experienced at dealing with primitive tribes. When they got to the village, on each brass bedpost there was
a baked head. .. quite possibly "protective" ancestral heads, and not necessarily anyone killed; but the effect on tourists was the same. ... They were close friends of another adventurous couple who took early movies in Micronesia. They had a short flick of a coastal village, and ten years later thought it might be fun to go back to that same village, set up a generator, screen, and carbon-arc projector, and show the movie. Midway everyone started shrieking and ran into the forest, and didn't return for two weeks. Turns out, some fellow popped up in the movie they had eaten; and they thought he had come back to life! I still remember seeing similar old movies myself as a child, on those rare occasions when my aunt and uncle were back in the US temporarily. For example, it's hard for us today to think of weaponry in the 1940's consisting of handmade arquebuses; but my uncle had one of only two jeeps in Afghanistan and was being chased by bandits on camels firing at him with these. One of them lit its fuse and his own head was blown off, captured in the flick I saw. The King of Afghanistan was nearby in the other jeep, which was equipped with a machine gun. So after the filming, the rest of the bandits were done in. But his own guards were equipped with flintlocks!

[Bob Salomon]

I didn't find it punny. Anyway, my headhunter remark ... In the 1940's it was popular for rich tourists to vacation amidst primitive people. A remote Indonesian island was attempting to take tourists by canoe to stay in tribal long-houses way upriver. The authorities thought it might help to send western-style beds to the long-houses in lieu of the usual hammocks. But the handful of tourists would instantly return in a panic. So they hired my aunt and uncle to scope out the situation, since they were very experienced at dealing with primitive tribes. When they got to the village, on each brass bedpost there was
a baked head. .. quite possibly "protective" ancestral heads, and not necessarily anyone killed; but the effect on tourists was the same. ... They were close friends of another adventurous couple who took early movies in Micronesia. They had a short flick of a coastal village, and ten years later thought it might be fun to go back to that same village, set up a generator, screen, and carbon-arc projector, and show the movie. Midway everyone started shrieking and ran into the forest, and didn't return for two weeks. Turns out, some fellow popped up in the movie they had eaten; and they thought he had come back to life! I still remember seeing similar old movies myself as a child, on those rare occasions when my aunt and uncle were back in the US temporarily. For example, it's hard for us today to think of weaponry in the 1940's consisting of handmade arquebuses; but my uncle had one of only two jeeps in Afghanistan and was being chased by bandits on camels firing at him with these. One of them lit its fuse and his own head was blown off, captured in the flick I saw. The King of Afghanistan was nearby in the other jeep, which was equipped with a machine gun. So after the filming, the rest of the bandits were done in. But his own guards were equipped with flintlocks!

Too bad a Rockefeller didn’t take care on his last trip!

[Drew Wiley]

Bingo! David Rockerfeller became the poster child for it. But just thirty years ago, when my nephew was living with me and getting his Geography degree at UCB, he was awarded a grant from an early GPS satellite venture to do the first full north/south traverse of New Guinea on the untamed Indonesian half via a maze of rivers. But one of his Geo classmates was son of a governor there, and strongly warned him not to do it due to the fact that cannibalism was not a mere rumor. Just a few months before an overweight German tourist got behind the trekking party and became smorgasbord. So he turned down the offer, but later accepted an invitation to a wholly unexplored section of the Chinese Karakoram by the GPS firm. All that GPS technology failed miserably, and two sherpas flown in from Nepal got lost on the glaciers. Remarkably, they were both found alive and not in a crevasse, even though snow-blinded. Nor were they allowed to take any film pictures. By contract, any images had to be live-transmitted via satellite for publicity purposes. Lots didn't get through, and the ones that did were horribly fuzzy. Sad,because what was lost included some first ascents of very high remote peaks. Somebody did sneak a film Nikon in a jacket but got sued afterwards. Bob, have you seen the big coffee table book of the Karakoram done by Shirahata using a 4x5 Technika? Quite a project!

[Bob Salomon]

Bingo! David Rockerfeller became the poster child for it. But just thirty years ago, when my nephew was living with me and getting his Geography degree at UCB, he was awarded a grant from an early GPS satellite venture to do the first full north/south traverse of New Guinea on the untamed Indonesian half via a maze of rivers. But one of his Geo classmates was son of a governor there, and strongly warned him not to do it due to the fact that cannibalism was not a mere rumor. Just a few months before an overweight German tourist got behind the trekking party and became smorgasbord. So he turned down the offer, but later accepted an invitation to a wholly unexplored section of the Chinese Karakoram by the GPS firm. All that GPS technology failed miserably, and two sherpas flown in from Nepal got lost on the glaciers. Remarkably, they were both found alive and not in a crevasse, even though snow-blinded. Nor were they allowed to take any film pictures. By contract, any images had to be live-transmitted via satellite for publicity purposes. Lots didn't get through, and the ones that did were horribly fuzzy. Sad,because what was lost included some first ascents of very high remote peaks. Somebody did sneak a film Nikon in a jacket but got sued afterwards. Bob, have you seen the big coffee table book of the Karakoram done by Shirahata using a 4x5 Technika? Quite a project!

No, had not seen it. Wished I had! I have too many books now and am trying to downsize the collection, including the original edition of The Decisive Moment! Hopefully I might find a dealer here near Atlanta.

[Drew Wiley]

He did a book on the Nepal Himalaya too. Not as creative as the famous work of Shirakawa using a Pentax 6x7 system, which included a lot of aerial shots and infrared b&w photography as well as Ektachromes (some blatantly colored with filters). But if Shirakawa's work is marvelously gritty and bold, Shirahata's work is LF precise, highly detailed, and realistic. Both men took multiple big budget expeditions with many porters. My uncle would have been incensed. When he was in Nepal, his helicopter rescued the frostbitten climbers who returned from the first ascent of the NW ridge of Everest, itself a big budget gig involving hundreds of porters. Natl Geo never even reimbursed his fuel cost.

[Alan Gales]

They definitely picked the wrong guy for those Dos Equis commercials.

Drew is definitely the most interesting man in the world!

[Drew Wiley]

Thank you. Dos Equis was my favorite, at least until a backpacking pal introduced me to Pliny, which does have a kick at high altitude.

[angusparker]

Bingo! David Rockerfeller became the poster child for it. But just thirty years ago, when my nephew was living with me and getting his Geography degree at UCB, he was awarded a grant from an early GPS satellite venture to do the first full north/south traverse of New Guinea on the untamed Indonesian half via a maze of rivers. But one of his Geo classmates was son of a governor there, and strongly warned him not to do it due to the fact that cannibalism was not a mere rumor. Just a few months before an overweight German tourist got behind the trekking party and became smorgasbord. So he turned down the offer, but later accepted an invitation to a wholly unexplored section of the Chinese Karakoram by the GPS firm. All that GPS technology failed miserably, and two sherpas flown in from Nepal got lost on the glaciers. Remarkably, they were both found alive and not in a crevasse, even though snow-blinded. Nor were they allowed to take any film pictures. By contract, any images had to be live-transmitted via satellite for publicity purposes. Lots didn't get through, and the ones that did were horribly fuzzy. Sad,because what was lost included some first ascents of very high remote peaks. Somebody did sneak a film Nikon in a jacket but got sued afterwards. Bob, have you seen the big coffee table book of the Karakoram done by Shirahata using a 4x5 Technika? Quite a project!

I've seen the Karakoram from the Pakistan side and its just breathtaking. That was pre LF days sadly. Wouldn't go back to the area given the current political climate but the people there are very nice and Ismailis who follow the Aga Khan and are supposedly descendant of Alexander the Great's men. Very handsome people with striking light colored eyes.

[Drew Wiley]

My nephew always traveled on a Dutch rather than US passport. His climbing partner at the time, John Climaco, was kidnapped on the upper Baltoro Glacier and later published a book called Dangerous Liaisons about his harrowing escape. My uncle was inducted into the Explorer's Club for being the first person of European descent in modern times to explore much of northern Afghanistan. He was sent over as an engineer by the US to modernize Kabul's water system. This involved both the selection of the site for their version of Lake Powell, a huge blue lake in redrock desert called Band-I-Amir, and even more interestingly, the repair of Alexander's original waterworks which had been largely functional for over two thousand years. People often think of Alexander as a roving bandit, but he was actually the most brilliant logistical general in history and a remarkable city planner equipped with his own extensive engineering division, plus Greek shepherds who were the world's first special forces with rock-climbing skills, necessary to sneak up Afghan fortresses atop peaks. The blue-eyed inhabitants of western China are decendants of Alexander's troops for the Caucasus - you either joined his forces or got killed - that's
how he insured he wasn't going to be seriously opposed on his return trip. I have an elderly cousin who grew up in Kabul. The city was so safe prior to the Russian invasion that nobody even had either doors or doorlocks, just a blanket hanging in the doorway. No crime. But remote hill country was a different story, with bloody tribal feuds going back centuries, and even roving wolf packs attacking and eating people, something nonexistent with wolf behavior in the Western hemisphere. My aunt witnessed one of those incidents. When she passed away in Oregon about 25 years ago, her walls were still covered with
Afghan copperwork and the floors with multiple layers of handwoven Persian rugs from their 18 years there. I was invited to live with them a year in Nepal when I was twelve, but had serious food allergies at that time, so it was not deemed wise. Their house overlooked the Kali Ghandaki gorge straight at Annapurna. Much later, when I was about 40, a famous Himalayan climber offered to give me the world altitude record for a large format camera by taking me as high as Camp Two on Dhaulagiri, near Annapurna but even higher. But I fell in love instead and had to settle for lesser misadventures here.

[Meekyman]

I never realised that this post would go on....

and I'm quite liking reading all the posts by Drew too!

[Meekyman]

Well, wanted to thank everyone that contributed to this thread.

In the end I treated myself to a Gitzo 3 series mountaineer long tripod, GT3542L. Added a lighter but still capable ballhead, an Arca Swiss P0. I managed to save around 500g on my old tripod/ballhead and have hopefully a lot more stable support. Very expensive though! Hopefully they'll both last me the 10 years which my old set-up did, and hopefully longer.

Cheers

Graham