PDA

View Full Version : Now the Carr Fire in Redding



John Kasaian
27-Jul-2018, 06:36
https://weather.com/news/news/2018-07-26-california-wildfires-cranston-ferguson-carr-fires

I don't know how this will effect Shasta bound photographers, but it can't be good.
It sounds like Redding is in serious danger.

Randy Moe
27-Jul-2018, 06:50
It is very bad.

Here in the Midwest, the local news shows a 48 state map that has fire icons as large as each state, so it looks like the entire West is on fire.

Good luck!

Vaughn
27-Jul-2018, 09:37
That's dry brush country. it is very bad.

Drew Wiley
27-Jul-2018, 11:32
All my alternative locations are getting smoked out. But due to their lower elevation and summer heat, I wouldn't think of the Trinity Alps before Oct anyway. Recently that's been the WORST fire month in California due to seasonal dry winds like the Santa Anas down south or Mono Wind on the west slope of the Sierra; but it all just depends on where the fires are and what direction the wind is going. One year I got smoked out of upper Convict Canyon clear over on the East side of the range due to a modest brush fire way over by the coast near San Luis Obispo. Some peculiarity of the wind just happened to siphon the smoke directly into that area, which otherwise is protected by high peaks and even quite high passes. Redding is a moderately large city on the Valley floor, right at the north end of the Sacramento Valley, and gets the hottest summer temps in CA other than desert areas. All that heat gets trapped by Shasta looming above to the north, Mt Lassen etc to east, and the Trinity Alps etc the west. But the city itself is basically an asphalt hell. The fire entering Santa Rosa last year proved that paved-over burbs can be affected; but the real risk is the tentacles of Redding which are semi-rural and actually extend into grasslands and brush. So, in this case, those tentacles are capable of drawing fire into city itself, and then of it getting ahold of all those plastics, gas lines, and unattended junk which people ignore as fire hazards. It certainly happened here twenty years ago with freeze-killed eucalyptus groves in the especially lethal Oakland hills fire, which destroyed even the water storage infrastructure the fire dept relied on. And it will happen again because nearby burbs have already forgotten that dire lesson. There was a close call last summer. But the climate is also conspicuously changing for the worse. Big fires are now a year-long possibility, even probability.

Jim Noel
27-Jul-2018, 14:11
The last I heard the fire was already in the northern edge of Redding. One of the TV stations had to evacuate their premises. I can't tell from San Diego if they are back on the air or not. I hate to see fire in the city. It is built so close together I can visualize it as one huge inferno.

Leszek Vogt
27-Jul-2018, 14:56
The brush is right down explosive (much like in many areas of Calif) and 110 temps don't help Redding much. As a norm I go camping with buds (Summer), but the last 6yrs or so I've taken the coastal route via Oregon, naturally taking my sweet time....and it's a WAY nicer drive than sweating on I-5. We hardly use A/C here....so that just fits into my mo.

Les

Drew Wiley
27-Jul-2018, 15:21
Coastal Oregon has also had its catastrophic fires. Last year the usually lush Eagle Creek and and Multnomah Falls of the Columbia River Gorge was dry, and was instantly set ablaze by brats throwing firecrackers. My Grandmother over on the even wetter coast itself owned five thousand acres of old growth fir forest, which was the tiny amount of what escaped the gigantic Tillamook burn of 1933, one of the biggest fires in US history. But now monster burns like that are getting common. They've gone gigantic in Alberta, and are even a distinct risk now in southern Alaska. These are timber crown fires, which can move explosively under windy conditions. Here in Calif, the chaparral brush is full of creosote and is engineered by nature to burn once it's mature. When that happened on a regular basis due to lightning or Indians setting fires, it amounted to little more than a periodic haircut. But now these areas are broken up by the intrusion of roads and development and prematurely desiccate, just like tropical forests. And all that people activity brings lots of opportunities for fires to start at the worst possible times.

jnantz
28-Jul-2018, 06:50
It is very bad.

Here in the Midwest, the local news shows a 48 state map that has fire icons as large as each state, so it looks like the entire West is on fire.

Good luck!

we see that here in new england too,
the whole place is ablaze ..

good luck and a whole lot of rain !
john

Drew Wiley
28-Jul-2018, 11:43
The Redding fire is moving explosively fast, hot enough to generate "fire tornadoes", many structures have been destroyed, and a few lives already lost. Evacuations are on a panic basis. So the news is not good.

Willie
28-Jul-2018, 13:38
The Redding fire is moving explosively fast, hot enough to generate "fire tornadoes", many structures have been destroyed, and a few lives already lost. Evacuations are on a panic basis. So the news is not good.

Don't know if one is worse than the other. Explosive fast mover compared to Hawaii where you watch for a week while the Lava comes closer and then engulfs the home. At least with the slower Lava fire you have time to get more of your stuff out before destruction hits. But days of anticipation compared to less than an hour of terror - don't know which would be worse.

Think it was Peter Stackpole who lost a lifetime of negatives and images to the fast moving Oakland Hills fire more than a decade ago. Little warning and total loss. Not an easy one to take.

Bob Salomon
28-Jul-2018, 13:42
Don't know if one is worse than the other. Explosive fast mover compared to Hawaii where you watch for a week while the Lava comes closer and then engulfs the home. At least with the slower Lava fire you have time to get more of your stuff out before destruction hits. But days of anticipation compared to less than an hour of terror - don't know which would be worse.

Think it was Peter Stackpole who lost a lifetime of negatives and images to the fast moving Oakland Hills fire more than a decade ago. Little warning and total loss. Not an easy one to take.

I grew up with Kathy Stackpole, Peterís daughter, in CT. Since Peter died in 1997 it had to be more then a decade ago.

Drew Wiley
28-Jul-2018, 14:29
The Oakland fire was by far the worst in terms of loss of life due to all the narrow winding roads. People couldn't get out and fire fighters couldn't get in. And the brand new fire chief from back East had never dealt with what was essentially an urban forest fire (in eucalyptus stands). I was heavily involved in the rebuilding phase, which gives me darn little confidence in the integrity of certain insurance companies.

Merg Ross
28-Jul-2018, 15:59
I grew up with Kathy Stackpole, Peterís daughter, in CT. Since Peter died in 1997 it had to be more then a decade ago.

Yes, it was October of 1991. The fire came within two blocks of our home in the Oakland Hills. Peter's house was five blocks from us and one of the first to burn after the fire jumped Highway 24. He gathered up what he could from the darkroom and loaded two cars; one would not start. It is a day etched in my memory, always thankful for the good fortune to return to a standing house several days after evacuation. Three thousand homes were destroyed, and twenty-five lives lost.

Peter never really recovered. His wife, Hebe, lost about fifty of her fine paintings and died suddenly on the second anniversary of the fire. The last time I saw Peter was at a nearby photo-swap, rebuilding his life and a new darkroom across the Bay. He died a short time later at the age of 83.

Bob Salomon
28-Jul-2018, 16:53
Yes, it was October of 1991. The fire came within two blocks of our home in the Oakland Hills. Peter's house was five blocks from us and one of the first to burn after the fire jumped Highway 24. He gathered up what he could from the darkroom and loaded two cars; one would not start. It is a day etched in my memory, always thankful for the good fortune to return to a standing house several days after evacuation. Three thousand homes were destroyed, and twenty-five lives lost.

Peter never really recovered. His wife, Hebe, lost about fifty of her fine paintings and died suddenly on the second anniversary of the fire. The last time I saw Peter was at a nearby photo-swap, rebuilding his life and a new darkroom across the Bay. He died a short time later at the age of 83.

But since he was one of the original 4 Life photographers and since he worked for them so long, all of his negatives from that period were at Life magazine and were not destroyed.

In the 80s the Chairman of Time Life was retiring and the magazine wanted to present him with an album of the best photos from the first 50 years of Life Magazine. The prints were 11x14Ē printed from the original negatives. As I had an Ademco press they hired me to mount them back to back and laminate them with the Ademco overlay. They had me make 2 sets. One for the Chairman and the other for their archives. At the time Ralph Morse lived near me and he was the delivery boy for the prints from the lab and for my finished, mounted and laminated prints. As I grew up in Darien, CT where both Peter Stackpole and Margret Bourne White also lived, it was quite an experience handling and mounting prints from Peterís, Bourke White, Morse and Eisenstaedt, among others!
When I delivered the last batch of prints to the magazine I got to show them to Eisenstaedt. And, while I had my studio I took some of the last pictures of Bourke White at her home for the local paper!

Drew Wiley
28-Jul-2018, 17:43
Rome continues to burn while Nero continues to fiddle (or at least Tweet that it's all a hoax). Nearly the entire global northern hemisphere is currently in record heat and high fire risk. Even here on the coast where it is cool, the fog today turned brown and smelly. Now a new fire in the wine country due north, or actually closer to Clear Lk.

Merg Ross
28-Jul-2018, 18:09
But since he was one of the original 4 Life photographers and since he worked for them so long, all of his negatives from that period were at Life magazine and were not destroyed.

In the 80s the Chairman of Time Life was retiring and the magazine wanted to present him with an album of the best photos from the first 50 years of Life Magazine. The prints were 11x14Ē printed from the original negatives. As I had an Ademco press they hired me to mount them back to back and laminate them with the Ademco overlay. They had me make 2 sets. One for the Chairman and the other for their archives. At the time Ralph Morse lived near me and he was the delivery boy for the prints from the lab and for my finished, mounted and laminated prints. As I grew up in Darien, CT where both Peter Stackpole and Margret Bourne White also lived, it was quite an experience handling and mounting prints from Peterís, Bourke White, Morse and Eisenstaedt, among others!
When I delivered the last batch of prints to the magazine I got to show them to Eisenstaedt. And, while I had my studio I took some of the last pictures of Bourke White at her home for the local paper!

That's an interesting slice of history, Bob; you met some icons of photo journalism for sure.

I first met Peter at his home in Darien in 1959. He retired the next year from Life Magazine and moved back to his birthplace, building a home next to his old family home in Oakland. When the fire came, a large number of his prints were stored at the Oakland Museum in anticipation of a huge retrospective exhibit scheduled for early in 1992. That was a small bit of good news.

Bob Salomon
28-Jul-2018, 18:27
That's an interesting slice of history, Bob; you met some icons of photo journalism for sure.

I first met Peter at his home in Darien in 1959. He retired the next year from Life Magazine and moved back to his birthplace, building a home next to his old family home in Oakland. When the fire came, a large number of his prints were stored at the Oakland Museum in anticipation of a huge retrospective exhibit scheduled for early in 1992. That was a small bit of good news.

Darien, Stamford, New Canan, Greenwich and Westport was a very interesting place to grow up. It was amazing who I got to meet and later photographer. Everyone from a very young Dorthy Hammil going to her first Olympics to Bud Collier to authors like Evan Hunter and Harold Robbins to Jackie Robinson and Tom Seaver! Unfortunately I never asked for autographs!

Willie
28-Jul-2018, 20:01
Darien, Stamford, New Canan, Greenwich and Westport was a very interesting place to grow up. It was amazing who I got to meet and later photographer. Everyone from a very young Dorthy Hammil going to her first Olympics to Bud Collier to authors like Evan Hunter and Harold Robbins to Jackie Robinson and Tom Seaver! Unfortunately I never asked for autographs!

You were right not to ask for autographs. Colleagues and friends not to be taken advantage of. Different times when getting an autograph was not thought of as a money making venture as it is now with so many.

My Uncle tells me of one experience when he was younger and met Alfred Eisenstaedt - while on a photo assignment. Eisenstaedt approached and introduced himself as my Uncle was photographing for a small newspaper - and offered a suggestion as to the proper way to hold a camera. Helpful and friendly - and my Uncle knew the name as well as the face. Said it was a lesson he never forgot with his 35mm news gear and one that worked.

Fire, volcano and disasters hit hard and at times with little or no warning. In our area it is tornadoes, straight line winds, lightning strikes and maybe Hail big enough to punch holes in the roof of buildings. Could get prairie fires but with so much farming it is unlikely. Still folks here who lived through "The Dirty 30's" and can see some old fences that disappear into drifting dirt. At first one thinks it is odd a fence would be built like that til someone explains the hill is drifted in from the Dust Bowl days - and covers more than an old fence line.

Good luck to those in the disaster zones. Hope all turns out as well as possible, your places are missed by the fires and damage and your health does not suffer from all the smoke and junk in the air.

tgtaylor
28-Jul-2018, 23:59
Yes, it was October of 1991. The fire came within two blocks of our home in the Oakland Hills. Peter's house was five blocks from us and one of the first to burn after the fire jumped Highway 24. He gathered up what he could from the darkroom and loaded two cars; one would not start. It is a day etched in my memory, always thankful for the good fortune to return to a standing house several days after evacuation. Three thousand homes were destroyed, and twenty-five lives lost.

Most of those homes were a literal fire trap with many so completely covered with vines and foliage that you wouldn't know a house was in there until you were at the front door. I imagine that was to protect from the direct sunlight and wind which they found objectional and, or, from direct visibility by anyone with optical aid on the west side of the bay. A lot of weird people lived in that jungle above Oakland.

Thomas

Drew Wiley
29-Jul-2018, 14:45
I wouldn't call it a jungle - not quite as damp as the the hills directly above Berkeley. The dead eucalyptus trees were my worst fear. Even live ones burn like crazy. I was up there assessing certain architectural issues plus color consulting. A very wealthy couple with an art collection worth several millions of dollars lived directly across the street from the vacant lot where the fire began. A smaller grass fire had already transpired a few months prior in that same spot. I remember distinctly warning them of the risk. But the city did nothing in terms of dead tree removal. That house was one of the first to go, along with their entire art collection. At least they got out alive.

Vaughn
31-Jul-2018, 22:14
And a new fire in northern CA. This one started right near the Eel River Workstation (USFS) that I worked out of for all the 1980s. It seems to be making new due to the name of the road it started on...Indian Dick Road.

John Kasaian
1-Aug-2018, 07:46
And a new fire in northern CA. This one started right near the Eel River Workstation (USFS) that I worked out of for all the 1980s. It seems to be making new due to the name of the road it started on...Indian Dick Road.

Well that's going to be awkward.

Vaughn
1-Aug-2018, 08:43
I just drove up Indian Dick Road in June to go backpacking. At the end of the road is Indian Dick Station, where there is an old log cabin (once occupied by a native American named Richard (so the official USFS story goes) and barn where we kept the stock and equipment to do trail work in the wilderness.

At the end of the road is Soldier Ridge Trailhead. From what I understand, it was one of the routes they used to force-march natives to the Round Valley Reservation (largest in CA).

Along what is now Indian Dick Road, one does pass by a rather phallic-looking rock.

Drew Wiley
1-Aug-2018, 10:43
Where I grew up, the Indians were gradually assimilated rather than subdued. They sometimes went to work for ranchers and took on their names, either first or last. So I knew people with legal names like Stanley Bill, Harvey Fred, and Jim Dandy. Otherwise, I won't add any fuel to Vaughn's observation other than saying my own collection of artifacts does contain some unambiguous soapstone fertility objects.

tgtaylor
1-Aug-2018, 11:43
July 2018 in Death Valley was the hottest ever recorded on Earth (for the second year in a row!): https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/capital-weather-gang/wp/2018/07/31/death-valley-to-post-hottest-month-ever-recorded-on-earth-for-the-second-july-in-a-row/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.32c9c45b9434

Thomas

Drew Wiley
1-Aug-2018, 14:18
That's erroneous. Hotter temps, in the 135 deg range, have repeatedly been measured at salt flats in the Great Rift Valley in Africa, likewise at a location below sea level. Distinctly hotter temps have even been officially measured in Death Valley than what the Post lists - and there the thermometer or instrument is deliberately shaded, and not in open sun. What they seems to be ambiguously implying refers to avg temps over a period of days, but I doubt they even have that correct. Sloppy reporting. But if you're disappointed just stick around awhile longer - we're headed back to the Pliocene. Back then, Death Valley was a lot like East Africa, with camels (like salt traders use), horses instead of zebras (Pliohippus), titanotheres instead of rhinoceros, lions, and flamingoes - a multitude of their tracks still appear on sandstone walls from ancient lakebeds. But Death Valley wasn't a sunken graben yet, nor had the early Sierra uplift created much of a rain shadow yet, so that kind of superheated climate was pretty much characteristic of pre-California in general. And the projected 5 deg change in global climate (a conservative educated guess) will easily get us there. Stock up on sunscreen.

Leszek Vogt
1-Aug-2018, 14:51
During my last visit to DV (1980's) I thought I saw a monument stating 136F deg way back in the 30's (as highest temp) ?. Perhaps my memory is playing tricks ? Maybe it's the heat mirage :>). Dry heat can be overrated and anything over 130F is miserable. I have experienced 131 deg at Nellis, but that's another story. These days 80's is bit much to take and I wonder how folks take anything over 100F deg....and folks in SJ Valley (and other places on earth) tolerate this for months.

Les

Drew Wiley
1-Aug-2018, 15:07
Easy enough to look up. But I think the official record at Badwater was 134 deg in the shade. Ironically, Death Valley was not affected by this recent heat wave to the extent of other areas in the Southwest, where quite a few local records were broken. Here on the SF Bay it's been downright cold and windy as usual in Summer - what we call our natural air conditioning. Death Valley itself can sometimes become a cold sink, generally in Dec. But there was one August when my toothpaste froze in the middle of my pack up in the high country above Bishop, around 12,000 ft. So I headed out as the blizzard hit. It actually shut down Hwy 395 due to heavy snowfall just past Bishop at around 5,000 ft elevation - something that rarely happens that low even in winter. So I drove to Death Valley to get warm, and actually had to wear a light coat down there in August, when the roads are typically so hot they melt shoe rubber!