Kodak XTOL Replenished - Small Tanks - Ilford FP4

[IanBarber]

Ive just seriously started using Ilford FP4 in both 4x5 sheet and 120 Roll Film but there is something niggling me about the results I am getting when using XTOL replenished.

For Roll film, I am using a Paterson tank (600ml) solution
For 4x5 sheet film, I am using the SP-445 (500ml) solution

For both of the above, I do 5 gentle inversions at the start and then 5 gentle inversions every minute.

My XTOL
I mixed this batch in October 2017 and made up 5 x 1 litre bottles. I use one of the bottles as the working solution and add 70ml from one of the other bottles after every roll film or 4 sheets of 4x5 film.

Development Times
This is where things start to be hazy as I cannot seem to find a good time. I have been using 8 minutes which were ok (ish) for scanning but seem a little flat for the darkroom and was having to use grade 4 at least to get the contrast to a starting point.

Question
Do you use FP4 in this situation (XTOL Replenished in small tanks intermittent agitation) and what dev times seem to work for you. I appreciate we all have different systems and it's not a one size fits all but I am curious as to how close or far away I am at using 8 minutes.

Ian

[agregov]

I can't speak to FP4, small tank inversion. But I am an XTOL user (Jobo CPP3) and just happen to re-read the documentation for the developer recently, so it's fresh in mind. XTOL is supposed to last a max of 6 months in fully topped, air tight containers, otherwise lasts 2 months. One anacdote, I have processed sheet film (TRX) with 6 month old developer and brand new fresh developer and the negs with 6m old developer looked flat. I know XTOL is designed for replenishment, but I thought that was primarily for high use lab situations? For small scale use, why not just discard developer after single use? In addition to avoiding the problem of weak developer it also forces use of more so it can get used up ahead of its 6m max shelf life. XTOL is cheap, doesn't seem worth the trouble and risk to negs to replenish for small scale processing.

[Henry Ambrose]

Xtol is a great developer. I suggest you use it one shot as it seems your current processing volume does not use the 5 liters soon enough. I really liked it diluted 1:3.

[Gary Samson]

Xtol instructions suggest agitation every 30 seconds, and that would be my first recommendation to increase contrast. If this change is not sufficient, I would also increase the time by a minute or two.

[tgtaylor]

Ilford's processing for FP4+ calls for 8.5 minutes (stock Xtol @ 68F) with Ilford agitation whereas Kodak says 8 minutes with Kodak agitation. Since Ilford knows their film better than Kodak, I'd go with Ilford's recommendation.

Thomas

[freecitizen]

I have been using replenished xtol for a few years now. When I went up to 4x5 and 5x7 I found that the volumes of developer I needed were so large ( tray or tank/inversion ) that I could not reasonably use a developer as one-shot. Inversion in my Jobo 4x5 tank needed about 1.3 litres each time.

So I went to replenished, and can simply pour as much developer as I need into the tank and replenish using stock xtol.

I make up 5 litres of Xtol and store it in multiple glass 200ml glass bottles ( discards from the chemist ) with airtight screw-on caps ( each one filled to the brim, no air ). That way my stock Xtol stays fresh without degradation from air contact. The replenished developer is kept in a huge swing-top Grolsch beer bottle which is always filled to the top. I pour whatever is needed into the tank and develop. While agitating, I add 75 mls fresh stock xtol per roll to the bottle and when development is complete I pour the developer from the dev tank back into the big bottle until it is full, then discard any leftover developer down the sink.

The replenished brew has become very stable. I decided to get serious and dialed in my personal film speed ( for Zone I ) and development time to get a proper print value for Zone VIII as per Fred Picker's method outlined in his Zone VI Workshop book. I am getting very consistent negatives with FP4 and HP5, all formats. They generally print well at about grade 2 ( diffusion enlarger ). Sharpness and tonality are excellent. I do proper proofs at grade 2, and include a Stouffer stepwedge on each proof sheet, to see things stay on track.

For my equipment and darkroom I have settled on ISO100 and 13 minutes at 20 degrees C of Xtol replenished for FP4. Your personal film speed and development time may well be different.

Going through this process has taught me a great deal and given me confidence in the materials I use. I find I am concentrating more on making pictures, rather than having doubts of the technical variety, at the moment and I am enjoying that.

[IanBarber]

The replenished brew has become very stable. I decided to get serious and dialed in my personal film speed ( for Zone I ) and development time to get a proper print value for Zone VIII as per Fred Picker's method outlined in his Zone VI Workshop book. I am getting very consistent negatives with FP4 and HP5, all formats. They generally print well at about grade 2 ( diffusion enlarger ). Sharpness and tonality are excellent. I do proper proofs at grade 2, and include a Stouffer stepwedge on each proof sheet, to see things stay on track.

For my equipment and darkroom I have settled on ISO100 and 13 minutes at 20 degrees C of Xtol replenished for FP4. Your personal film speed and development time may well be different.

Thanks for the nice detailed explanation of your own personal experience with XTOL.
For your 13 minutes, are you using continuous agitation or intermittent.

When you add the 75ml from the small bottles into the working solutions, are you concerned about the air in the 200ml bottle.

[freecitizen]

My agitation system is continuous for the first 30 seconds, then 4 inversions each minute. This is only because 4 is my lucky number ..... it could just as easily be 3. It is essentially the method suggested by Fred Picker ( one of my heroes ). I don't think the agitation regime is as important as the repeatability of agitation. Once dialed in ..... I do the same thing every single time ..... and I get the same result every time. Every photographer has their own way of doing it ..... which is fine because they pretty much all work.

I don't worry about the air in the 200ml bottles as they are used ..... unless it has been a long time since I developed something ( say more than 6 weeks), or the amount of liquid left is very small. In both of these cases I toss the contents of that bottle and open a new one.

If I haven't developed anything for a while I might add 80 mls instead of 75. It doesn't seem to matter that much ...... the solution is very stable. I think the replenished Xtol gives better tonality than using it as a one-shot, perhaps because it contains some development byproducts such as bromide ions. My proper proofs are done with a Stouffer step wedge included ..... to keep track of any variations, which are easy to correct.

[IanBarber]

My agitation system is continuous for the first 30 seconds, then 4 inversions each minute. This is only because 4 is my lucky number ..... it could just as easily be 3. It is essentially the method suggested by Fred Picker ( one of my heroes ).

I also like the way in which Fred Picker approaches things. I have not long ago acquired his Zone VI workshop book When using FP4, I am happy with the results I am getting using ISO 200 but I would really like to do the ZVIII print test to try and establish an N development time for XTOL.

Was doing the ZVIII test difficult to do. I would either have to do it on 4x5 or 120 Roll film

Ian

[freecitizen]

The Fred Picker method for determining your own personal film speed and film development time, as well as the " Proper Proof " ( with your equipment ...... exposure meter, camera, shutter, development regime, etc ) is simple enough. The Zone VI workshop book covers it very well. Most people I know are too lazy to fully complete this testing with its clear, logical steps. My experience is that it is absolutely worth doing, and worth doing properly. It has given me knowledge and confidence in my materials. Doing these steps calibrates your materials so you have complete control over the process.

There is also a video of Fred's photography and the whole process which comes available from time to time. It often bears the name Calumet, who eventually took over Zone VI. It shows Fred and a young Bruce Barlow describing the processes. I have watched it about 20 times. Always seem to gain something new each time I watch it. Bruce is a member here and you could do a search on his posts which I think will be helpful ..... e.g. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?33241-FS-Zone-VI-Videos-Fred-Picker&highlight=bruce+fred+picker

I do not recall clearly where I bought the DVD but it might have been from the ever helpful Fred Newman at the View Camera Store.

Fred's newsletters are available in digital form occasionally on the auction site. I find them a priceless treasure of inspiration, philosophy and knowledge. They are fascinating. A search on " ZONE VI, CD COPY OF FRED PICKER'S 83 NEWSLETTERS " on the evilbay site should bring it up.

[Duolab123]

Free citizen, you give very good advice. I've been using XTOL since it first came out. I replenish when using larger tanks, works great. I have several sizes of bottles the stock is always kept full.
When I use my Jobo processor I use stock XTOL one shot, I worry about oxidization with all the swishing about.

True story, we moved to a new house several years back. Last year I found a bottle of stock XTOL that had gotten put away in a closet of household supplies. The bottle was 11 years old, looked like a pale beer. It was stored in an absolutely full, air squeezed out PET soda bottle. I was getting ready to pour down the drain. I thought I will never get another chance, I developed a roll of 120 film, gave it an extra 20% development time. Negatives turned out fine. I couldn't believe it.
I always use purified water for mixing. I use XTOL that has been stored up to a year no problem. The keys are pure water and no air.
Amazing developer.
Best Regards Mike