New 4x5 'Standard' Camera

[f9likethekey]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/144867732/the-standard-4x5-a-3d-printed-4x5-view-camera?ref=456702&token=a9652fc7

[Bob Salomon]

Wonder if he knows that Linhof made a series of Kardan cameras called Standard a few decades ago?

[Nikonowicz]

Wonder if he knows that Linhof made a series of Kardan cameras called Standard a few decades ago?

Hey thanks for sharing the KS here! I was aware actually - I was excited to see they seemed to be using 'Standard' in the same way - to describe a no frills style camera. In my case, of course, it also refers to the company name - Standard Cameras.

I'm happy to answer questions about the project if anybody has any. I have been working on getting this far with the project for about 4 years. I've personally designed the camera from the top to the bottom.

[AuditorOne]

Reminds me a lot of my Cambo SC. Still a great idea and the price is certainly right

For now I am very, very happy wandering around Nevada and elsewhere with my Wanderlust Travelwide and my Intrepid 4x5.

I do wish that someone would pick up the Travelwide design and bring it back out. Maybe with the ability to use the Graflex Grafmatic film holder this time.

[Bob Salomon]

Hey thanks for sharing the KS here! I was aware actually - I was excited to see they seemed to be using 'Standard' in the same way - to describe a no frills style camera. In my case, of course, it also refers to the company name - Standard Cameras.

I'm happy to answer questions about the project if anybody has any. I have been working on getting this far with the project for about 4 years. I've personally designed the camera from the top to the bottom.

It wasn’t exactly a no frills camera. It had all movements on the front and back, 17” bellows extension. Fixed bellows that gave full movements with 65mm and longer lenses, full revolving back and. Rather light weight.

[MAubrey]

It kind of looks like a 3d printed Bender 4x5 in a lot of ways.

[Nikonowicz]

It wasn’t exactly a no frills camera. It had all movements on the front and back, 17” bellows extension. Fixed bellows that gave full movements with 65mm and longer lenses, full revolving back and. Rather light weight.

Just to clarify, when I say no frills I mean that the design is simplified and it doesn't have a ton of bells and whistles like many Linhof cameras (e.g. the Linhof Technika, though maybe that's comparing apples to oranges...), not no frills meaning no movements/features. Though maybe I simply used the wrong words! :)

[Bob Salomon]

Just to clarify, when I say no frills I mean that the design is simplified and it doesn't have a ton of bells and whistles like many Linhof cameras (e.g. the Linhof Technika, though maybe that's comparing apples to oranges...), not no frills meaning no movements/features. Though maybe I simply used the wrong words! :)

Since it was a Kardan and not a Technika it was a completely different camera. It was like most Linhof Kardan cameras made since the B was introduced except its standard bellows was fixed and gave full movements from 65mm up and it would not convert to a larger format and could not use a longer rail. But it did have all movements, front and back like all Kardans from the B on. It also would not accept extension posts for additional rise. It was a fully capable camera.

[ScottPhotoCo]

Don't let the grumpy old men on here discourage you. Dream big. If it fails you learn something. If it succeeds you learn something. It's all part of life and we all need to dream big.

[ghostcount]

Don't let the grumpy old men on here discourage you. Dream big. If it fails you learn something. If it succeeds you learn something. It's all part of life and we all need to dream big.

^

[Jac@stafford.net]

... self deleted ...

[Oren Grad]

Jac, if you have specific concerns about the design, please state them so that Drew will have a chance to respond and the rest of us the chance to evaluate and discuss them. Content-free dissing is rude and unhelpful.

[Bob Salomon]

Jac, if you have specific concerns about the design, please state them so that Drew will have a chance to respond and the rest of us the chance to evaluate and discuss them. Content-free dissing is rude and unhelpful.

Missing rear tilt, per the specs, is a major shortcoming on a monorail view camera. Rear tilts and swings control object shape when using indirect movements.
Also, is this a center tilt camera?

[Two23]

It does look like a nice way to get into 4x5 for $350, and it looks like a very functional camera. I've been very happy with my Chamonix 045n though, and prefer a collapsible field camera. I do hope you succeed though! I might be interested if you come out with an 8x10 or larger some time in the future. And another thought. Maybe you could begin making a simple manual focus 35mm camera that takes standard mm screw mount lenses? You could call it the "Nikonowicz F1." Might have to shorten the name just a little to get all that on a plate on the front of the camera.


Kent in SD

[BradS]

Don't let the grumpy old men on here discourage you. Dream big. If it fails you learn something. If it succeeds you learn something. It's all part of life and we all need to dream big.


+1


Keep moving forward! but learn from this too...the field of Large Format Photography has a lot of grumpy old men. If you start a business that tries to supply this market, you will invariably encounter more of this kind of...crap.

[Nikonowicz]

Thanks, Oren. While I didn't share this here, I am more than happy to hear constructive criticism from you all. The beauty of 3d printing the camera is that I can rapidly make changes to the design and test them. This is one of the most exciting parts of the project for me, especially once I upload the design and bill of materials - then everyone can improve it, and (ideally) everyone contributes to making a better camera. Anyways...

Missing rear tilt was actually a deliberate choice to improve the stability of the rear standard. Not everyone is going to agree, but I prioritized stability over an increase in available movements. As the design grows and changes, perhaps I will come back on that decision. Also, (unless I misunderstand) yes - it is a center tilt camera.

I think it's worth noting that I designed the camera with students, educators and recent graduates heavily in mind. The kind of people who can't afford much more than the bare minimum needed to get out the door and shooting. There are tons of universities that are underfunded, but their photo students should still have the chance to learn LF. And plenty of graduates are leaving behind access to equipment and walking into quite a bit of debt. So the design is lightweight, durable, and affordable. The things I would have wanted when I graduated. More than that, I've designed it so that parts will be readily available and easy to replace. I will offer replacement parts for super reasonable prices, and if you prefer (since it will be open source) you can simply replace the parts yourself. And if people are willing, they can save even more money by simply purchasing a kit and assembling the camera themselves.

It is also (in my opinion) somewhere between a field and monorail. By appearance, yes, it's a rail. But the camera comes apart by sliding the standards off the rail. In that state, you simply have to find space in your bag for a camera that is less than 4" thick by about 7.5" wide and 11" tall - something that I find pretty easy to do.

Of course, I'm also quite happy that the camera sits right at about 2 pounds, but I recognize that's nothing special nowadays.

Like I said at the top - I'm happy to hear what you all think! I felt those were a few things worth noting moving forward. Constructive criticism is always welcome.

[BradS]

I think it is fantastic that a new 4x5 camera is (going to be) available at this price!

[stevelmx5]

Good luck with the campaign Drew, it looks like another excellent introduction to large format. I collected 8 boxes of Chroma camera parts yesterday so will be continuing with the assembly line here!

Cheers
Steve
(Chroma.Camera)

[andrewch59]

Good on you Drew, if it draws more people to LF its well worth it, strength in numbers and all that. If I wasn't saving for my Kodak 14in Ektar I would support you.

[Nikonowicz]

Thanks everyone! Fingers crossed it goes well.

And I can't wait to see what people make with their Chromas! I'll be watching on social media :)

[stevelmx5]

Cheers :D

[Steve Goldstein]

It looks like rear tilt would be a very simple thing to add if the plastic part of the rear standard had the necessary threaded inserts built in. You might consider doing that, and also drill the matching holes in the metal supports. This would allow owners to make their own choice regarding stability versus flexibility, and even switch from one configuration to the other to see which they prefer.

[Nikonowicz]

It looks like rear tilt would be a very simple thing to add if the plastic part of the rear standard had the necessary threaded inserts built in. You might consider doing that, and also drill the matching holes in the metal supports. This would allow owners to make their own choice regarding stability versus flexibility, and even switch from one configuration to the other to see which they prefer.

That's more or less my thoughts on how to implement it. I am working on coming up with a solution that wouldn't change the hardware requirements, so people could upgrade/swap over to a system that includes rear tilt for next to nothing. It's super nice to hear you had a similar thought - power in numbers and all that!

[Mark Sampson]

Best of luck! I'm not in the market for a camera but more choice is a good thing.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Looks great!

[germansaram]

Don't let the grumpy old men on here discourage you. Dream big. If it fails you learn something. If it succeeds you learn something. It's all part of life and we all need to dream big.


I agree. And look, you already got over 70 supporters! :) Good luck with your project!

[plywood]

Neat looking camera, very tidy. While not in the market I also applaud your effort to share your knowledge and effort with others.

[ericantonio]

This is great. I love how you (younger) guys are keeping film and "old" tech alive!! Kudos to you. Hope this will be a great success. Looks like it's pretty sturdy to be carried around.

[stevelmx5]

Congratulations on reaching your funding target Drew. Now the fun part really begins!

[Nikonowicz]

Cheers everybody - I'm super happy we made it. And you're right Steve - I've already begun the manufacturing process!

[JimL]

Is there any provision for fine focus, or is focus done by sliding the standard by hand along the rail?

[williaty]

Drew, I hope your release of the 4x5 goes well. I'd be very interested if you produced a 5x7 and/or 8x10 camera in the future as it's not too hard to find a cheap, functional used 4x5 camera but stepping up to 8x10 is a huge increase in cost (and difficulty of finding one that isn't decrepit) and 5x7 just doesn't seem to have the depth of availability. Given the modular way your'e conceiving the camera, it'd also be cool to have interchangeable rear standards and bellows to allow oddball things like 4x10, 6x17 (cm in this case), etc. From a design standpoint, I wonder if you could implement multiple different rear standards and backs as varying sized 3D-printed parts held together with common/shared metal bits so that the overhead from your perspective to offer additional formats would be nearly zero.

[Nikonowicz]

@JimL - There is not right now. The movement along the rail is quite smooth, but that's one place where my focus (pardon the pun) will be moving to next. I have a few ideas for adding in fine focusing without increasing the complexity of the camera.

@williaty - Right now I'm focused on making the 4x5 as good as it can be. I'm actually making more improvements (without falling into a 'feature creep' rabbit hole) to it right now. But there is a small chance I might make a similar setup for larger formats - no promises though! I think some designs don't scale up well. I could probably make some money selling an 8x10 to a bunch of people, but if the design isn't sturdy and reliable (as I think the 4x5 is), I'm not going to do that.

As for rear standard setups and additional features - it's 100% in the pipeline. I've already developed one or two (for example: a bellows extender), but I don't want to commit too much too quickly.