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View Full Version : Goerz Dagor 355mm f/7.7 --VS-- NIkkor-M 450mmm F/9 For 16x20 - Which Would You Get?



Qeb
15-Jun-2018, 12:17
Hello everyone!

Well I'm looking to get into 16x20 tintype photography.

I'm starting to find lenses. I think I have an idea what longer lens I want for half body to 1:1 head shots.

What I am now looking into is wide lenses. I would love a lens that i can shoot a full body in portrait and landscape orientation.

So my question to you ULF guru's is would you rather get a Goerz 14inch/355mmm f/7.7 VS NIkkor-M 450mmm F/9?

I'm not 100% clear on if I can get a full body in a shot and still get enough image circle in portrait and landscape orientations.
Also, does anyone have any knowledge about the sharpness and contrast between these lenses?

I've added some screen shots from the lens PDF found at largeformatphotography.info but I think I need help still hahha (i.e. I would rather hear from human experience)

Well, thank you so much for reading this and have a wonderful weekend!
Cheers,
Kevin H.

Luis-F-S
15-Jun-2018, 12:32
Hmm, 14" Dagor at f45 to cover 1620 is going to require pretty still subjects. There's also the 355 G-Claron which may be easier to find, but not sure of the coverage stopped way down. L

goamules
15-Jun-2018, 12:43
At F45 an outdoor image will take about 1-3 minutes exposure, on wetplate with bright outdoor lighting. Or a psuedo-thermonuclear level flash with strobes, that will melt the clothes off the subject. Human experience talking here....you want a fast lens that will cover wide open for wetplate.

Luis-F-S
15-Jun-2018, 12:54
At F45 an outdoor image will take about 1-3 minutes exposure, on wetplate with bright outdoor lighting. Or a psuedo-thermonuclear level flash with strobes, that will melt the clothes off the subject. Human experience talking here....you want a fast lens that will cover wide open for wetplate.

Yup, they never think of these things, do they? 16x20 sounds pretty cool until you try to figure out the logistics. As they say, the Devil is in the Details!

Tin Can
15-Jun-2018, 13:07
You need to do some online research.

Start below and then start looking. Google is good at this.

http://www.jbhphoto.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/bigcam1.pdf

I plan to use a Nikor 610mm f9 on my 14X17 for head and shoulders. Nearly life-size. Which is called 1 to 1 Macro.

http://www.savazzi.net/download/manuals/Apo-Nikkor.pdf

Pere Casals
16-Jun-2018, 08:50
Hello everyone!

Well I'm looking to get into 16x20 tintype photography.

Kevin, the 16x20" format has a diagonal of 625mm, I figure you know that those lenses won't cover the format for distant shots.

If you calculate the distance at what you will have the head of the subject when focusing 1:1, then you will realize that you will be too close, so you will get the "nose job" effect.

You may consider 600mm to 1000mm lenses mentioned here: http://www.angusparkerphoto.com/blog/2015/2/ulf-lens-recommendations-14x17

William Whitaker
16-Jun-2018, 09:36
Seriously take a look at Reinhold Schable's Wollaston lenses. (http://re-inventedphotoequip.com/Formats.html) They're fast, but not ultra-fast. They're easily available. And they are affordable. Reinhold is a member of this forum and a good fellow to work with. The lenses are very simple, but well thought out.

Keep in mind that any lens which has both a long focal length and a fast aperture is by necessity going to require a fairly large piece of glass. That equates to lensboard size, weight, filter size (if a consideration) and ultimately cost.

DolphinDan
17-Jun-2018, 19:12
Hi Kevin,

I have the Nikon 450mm f9 lens, and it does cover 16x20 at f32 and smaller apertures. I cannot recall if I tried exposing any film at f22 or larger apertures (depth of field with 16x20 is a nightmare: extremely shallow unless you are shooting at infinity or close to it) with my 16x20 camera. Sandy King might know...

I have a Goerz DAGOR 19" f7.7, but I cannot recall if I have used it yet. I mainly use the Nikon and either my Goerz 24" RED DOT ARTAR or Nikon APO-NIKKOR 610mm f9 lenses. I would be cautious about the 355mm|14" DAGOR covering 16x20: the corners of your negative might end up soft.

Another consideration: I have a Richard Ritter 16x20 and found it difficult to compress the bellows enough to focus my Nikon NIKKOR-W 360mm f6.5 lens when photographing a Sycamore tree about 6 feet from the lens. So I would advise you to try the Goerz 355mm f7.7 lens before buying it. It may not work with your camera.

+1 on what Garrett said about lighting.

Hope this helps.

Namaste,
Daniel

thegreatcornholio
18-Jun-2018, 02:58
Try to get a 16 or 19" dagor for landscapes...

For a full body portrait you can also look for a Dallmeyer RR, my 18x16 covers my 16x20 easily with wider opening than f/45. Maybe you can get something like that for (outdoor) portraits...

DrTang
18-Jun-2018, 10:06
a triple convertible 12-20-28 or so should work great at 28" (about 711mm)

Qeb
19-Jun-2018, 14:51
Hello everyone!

Wow, thank you for all the messages/replies of support!
Sorry, I was away for the weekend (my uncles cottage).

I'll definitely reply to everyone tonight.

Have a great week people!
Cheers,
Kevin

Qeb
20-Jun-2018, 20:25
Hello Luis-F-S, Sorry, I should have written better, the lens would be used in a studio to get a full human body in the shot in both orientations. Thank you!

goamules, Thank you, I will look for a fast lens (I do have a few 9600 ws heads that I hope will help)

Thank you for the advice and Links Randy Moe. I think I'm okay for a portrait lens though.

Hello Pere Casals, yes sir, I was informed of this recently. I was hoping to shoot full body shots with the subject far from infinity focus.
Like Giles Clement has shot, he used a 14" lens but I think his lens is very rare :(

Hello William Whitaker, Thanks, for the advice and link. I'll spend ore time investigating these lenses! Thanks again!

Hey DolphinDan, thanks again for replying! Oh wow, okay, hmm... Thank you for the warnings and advice about those lenses.
Also thanks for warning me about the bellows. I was worried about this and I didn't' get a clear answer from a bellows maker.
Interesting the camera is supposed to have a Min. extension of 130mm.... thank you again tho :)

Hello thegreatcornholio, Okay, awesome I will look into this type of lens. Most of the full body shots that have inspired me were in studios with artificial light.
But you are right, nothing stopping me from shooting outside with natural light.

Hello DrTang, wow that sounds versatile. Are they rare and expensive?

pepeguitarra
27-Mar-2019, 16:39
Excellent article.