Strobes vs Continuous Lighting with MF and LF?

[m00dawg]

I never have been great a portraits but would like to step up my game a bit and start practising studio type work. Seems like portraits in LF would be amazingly fun. I have a Nikon SB-800 I've used for years, though moreso for fill flashes and stuff and not for studio portraits. It doesn't have a sync so I'd have to use some sort of wireless sync (which is a good idea anyway I suppose).

Since I only have one though, I was thinking maybe about getting a continuous lighting setup instead especially given CFL and LED options. Digital may have a leg up here for high ISO sensitivity. I was thinking I'd probably use HP5 a good deal so I could push it to 1600 or 3200 there. But trying some other emulsions might be fun too for portraits (e.g. Pancro 400, or perhaps Portra 400). I was also thinking I would be using larger apertures for a shallower DOF. This would be with 4x5 at the moment.

I poked around the forums and ran into [url="http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?137587-Continuous-Lighting/page2"]this/[url] post which goes into equipment, but doesn't mention much about when strobes or continuous lighting are the better fit for a particular application.

Thoughts?

[Bob Salomon]

I never have been great a portraits but would like to step up my game a bit and start practising studio type work. Seems like portraits in LF would be amazingly fun. I have a Nikon SB-800 I've used for years, though moreso for fill flashes and stuff and not for studio portraits. It doesn't have a sync so I'd have to use some sort of wireless sync (which is a good idea anyway I suppose).

Since I only have one though, I was thinking maybe about getting a continuous lighting setup instead especially given CFL and LED options. Digital may have a leg up here for high ISO sensitivity. I was thinking I'd probably use HP5 a good deal so I could push it to 1600 or 3200 there. But trying some other emulsions might be fun too for portraits (e.g. Pancro 400, or perhaps Portra 400). I was also thinking I would be using larger apertures for a shallower DOF. This would be with 4x5 at the moment.

I poked around the forums and ran into [url="http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?137587-Continuous-Lighting/page2"]this/[url] post which goes into equipment, but doesn't mention much about when strobes or continuous lighting are the better fit for a particular application.

Thoughts?
Why not go look at professional photographers websites and see what they use and how they use them? Try Clay Blackwell.

[m00dawg]

Oooh thanks for that, I'll check out Clay's work. I did poke around a bit, though had a bit of a hard time finding film or LF shooters. Found some nice articles for the digital domain though. But since you can crank a DSLR up to like a million ISO it felt a bit apples to oranges.

[Bob Salomon]

Oooh thanks for that, I'll check out Clay's work. I did poke around a bit, though had a bit of a hard time finding film or LF shooters. Found some nice articles for the digital domain though. But since you can crank a DSLR up to like a million ISO it felt a bit apples to oranges.

Most current pro portrait photographers that have been in business for several years were film shooters that shoot digital now.

[m00dawg]

Found a few more sources to check out:

https://fstoppers.com/film/light-eater-biggest-challenge-large-format-portraiture-164612
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?122285-Getting-quot-enough-light-quot-for-LF-portraiture
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?118068-Continuous-lights

Oddly found the last two via a Google search rather than the built-in search here but *shrug* some good info nonetheless! Still looking for examples from other photographers (Googling around while I have breaks at work).

I think initially I may get a cheap wireless sync to fire my current flash since that'll get me started since that doesn't require much investment and I can play around with it while I continue to research options.

[Bob Salomon]

Found a few more sources to check out:

https://fstoppers.com/film/light-eater-biggest-challenge-large-format-portraiture-164612
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?122285-Getting-quot-enough-light-quot-for-LF-portraiture
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?118068-Continuous-lights

Oddly found the last two via a Google search rather than the built-in search here but *shrug* some good info nonetheless! Still looking for examples from other photographers (Googling around while I have breaks at work).

I think initially I may get a cheap wireless sync to fire my current flash since that'll get me started since that doesn't require much investment and I can play around with it while I continue to research options.

Do you have an umbrella or soft box? How about a couple of light stands and a reflector to use as a fill light?

[m00dawg]

Umbrella and stands are on the shopping list (I super needed it a few weeks ago). Previously I've only had one of those sheet diffusers you strap to the top of the flash. Hadn't thought about a reflector but that's a good point. The place I have room to set things up doesn't have a ton of natural light but it would help (likewise I assume I can have the flash bounce off a reflector as well)

[Tobias Key]

You need a lot of light for large format portraits at traditional working apertures. I use 500 watt flash heads and I would say that is around the minimum you practically need if you want any kind of flexibility. It would be a major undertaking to get the same intensity of light from LED's or CFL's.

[Bob Salomon]

You need a lot of light for large format portraits at traditional working apertures. I use 500 watt flash heads and I would say that is around the minimum you practically need if you want any kind of flexibility. It would be a major undertaking to get the same intensity of light from LED's or CFL's.

A soft box can be much more pleasant then an umbrella. The reflector can kick light back as a fill on the shadow side from your flash. You just look for a 3:1 lighting ratio.

[massimodec]

Hi,
I have all quoted problems: I would like enough light without roasting the subject during the setting and positioning of the lamps...
So, for the kind of light, tungsten were the best: some with fresnels, to have a crisp light in some areas... but those are really hot!
So, besides the usual diffusors that always work well, for pointed lights LEDs could be a solution, but I did not find the same kind of concentration of the flood.
Do you have any advice ? which kind of lamps should I look for ?
There are mini parabolic leds that look pretty good, but I am not sure.
Thank you

[m00dawg]

FWIW, I played around with both strobes and "continuous lighting" (really just my desk lamp) for some static compositions. Found I really needed some continuous lighting for composing, especially if it's a macro type shot on my 90mm f/8 since it's dark to begin with and macro shots seem like they can end up pretty dim. I also shot with flashes for similar subjects with my 150mm and found I need to practice more on that but it was close enough to use my DSLR for guessing my flash power.

[Pere Casals]

FWIW, I played around with both strobes and "continuous lighting"

If you see any pro strobe you will find that most units also have a continuous "modeling light".

Tipically you want to illuminate with a key and and a fill light sources. Also tipically you want a relationship between key and fill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighting_ratio

With the modeling light you preview the effect, if shadows are casted, etc, then you can measure ratio of the key vs fill you like while illuminating with the modeling light. Next step is using a flash meter to adjust the by strobes testing different power settings in each strobe until you have the same ratio than when you were playing with the modeling light, and then you are ready to shot.

Tipically the modeling light uses the same modifiers (softbox, etc) than the strobe, so the effects you see with the modeling light will match the same you get if using the strobe.

[Bob Salomon]

If you see any pro strobe you will find that most units also have a continuous "modeling light".

Tipically you want to illuminate with a key and and a fill light sources. Also tipically you want a relationship between key and fill: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighting_ratio

With the modeling light you preview the effect, if shadows are casted, etc, then you can measure ratio of the key vs fill you like while illuminating with the modeling light. Next step is using a flash meter to adjust the by strobes testing different power settings in each strobe until you have the same ratio than when you were playing with the modeling light, and then you are ready to shot.

Tipically the modeling light uses the same modifiers (softbox, etc) than the strobe, so the effects you see with the modeling light will match the same you get if using the strobe.
You can accurately meter the modeling light to obtain the strobe exposure if the modeling light is fully proportional to the flash output at all power setting and if the bulb for the modeling light is not an incandescent one.
To see the actual effect of the strobe from a modeling light both the flash tube and the modeling light have to be enclosed within the same frosted globe, other one is much more of a point light source then the other and will not have the same shadow effects.

[Drew Wiley]

The nice thing about hot lights is that you can charge tanning salon rates in addition to your photographer's fee! But I distinctly prefer them anyway. I don't use lights very often, so have no need for flash. Got some Lowel and Arri fresnel stuff, gels and diffuser frames etc. Does everything I need for 8X10 camera work in an easy-carry, quick to set-up kit. Just make sure the location has modern wiring. Quite a bit of wattage there. Have a helper stand in for the setup
and general focus (then don't pay them because they got a free tan!).

[LabRat]

Hot lights do get hot, and most people do feel like they are being interrogated under them... I was shooting "Karsh" like lighting of a former pro portrait fotog with two 650W quartz lights, and it was tiring his eyes after a few minutes... Even with that, my exposure was around 1/10th sec @ f5.6 ISO 80 with my Graflex and direct lighting.. Strobes tend to daze the sitter after the first blast, but they get used to it usually...

LF is traditional for portraits, but not too practical these days, as your sitters can be uncomfortable with that much light, and difficult to be spontaneous with your finest moment...

But not impossible!!!

Steve K

[Tin Can]

A couple years ago I borrowed 3 Mole Richardson 10" Fresnels. 1-2K and 2-1K. From a friend with 20 of them. I had never used them so I wanted to try them out.

They do need good studio wiring and fire control. In my studio on a cold winter, they about burned down the concrete bunker I lived in.

I turned on the 2K and it was so hot on my paper backdrop rolls I didn't leave it on long. I became worried about starting a fire. Back they went.

I have long used my Lowel 750 watt Tota's in the same room and paper, without a problem.

Fresnels focus light and heat, Tota's do not...as much...still heats up any model.

Love my 4 Einsteins, 2 on wall booms, 2 anywhere.

[Peter De Smidt]

It all depends on what you're doing. Are you shooting at f/5.6 with fast film? Then continuous light should be easy to use. Are shooting at F/22 with slow film? Then your model will have difficulty with continuous light, unless they wear welding glasses. Back in Hollywood in the 20 and 30s, they tended to shoot at medium apertures, and their talent was used to dealing with very bright lights. I have a bunch of movie lights. I never use them. My studio is too small. They heat it up like it's an easybake oven. I tried Leds in soft boxes. F/8, 1/3oth, EI100 was too bright for my model. For large format portraiture, I use Speedotron Blackline strobes.

[Bob Salomon]

There are other major considerations between the two.
First is current draw, if you are using incandescent or tungsten lamps they will draw a lot of current. Depending on your electric outlets you probably only have 15 or 20 amp breakers. If you have other working things on that circuit like refrigerators, AC units, etc. you can easily overload the breakers.
Then there is the heat. Both you and the subject may get very uncomfortable in the room, you might sweat under them but your subject shouldn’t. So that will require air conditioning, possibly limiting the load on your circuits.
Then there is color balance, if shooting color, there are no daylight output incandescent or tungsten lamps, even so called daylight bulbs really aren’t the proper K for daylight film, so the use of these lamps will require filtration for correct balance, if using incandescent bulbs they will change color temperature and output as they burn.
Lastly, for consistent output from hot lights you would need a stabilized circuitry, otherwise their output and color balance will change with line voltage.
None of these problems occur with good flash systems. Or with professional photographic LED or fluorescent equipment.

[Pere Casals]

None of these problems occur with good flash systems. Or with professional photographic LED or fluorescent equipment.

... and the flash also will remove any shake in the image !

[jnantz]

Rob Skeoch had a great write up and video of
his use of smith victor lamps. maybe he'll see this
thread and chime in.

[John Kasaian]

I have a Mole Richardson which I find excellent for making quesadillas.
Got to love a multi-tasker!:rolleyes:

[Drew Wiley]

Smith Victor??? Didn't they connect to a bolt of lightning via a kite? I inherited a bunch of Smith Victor, and its been in a big box way up in the back of a
shop loft ever since. But this was once standard fare for photo students on a limited budget, and they were expected to make it work.

[John Kasaian]

Smith Victor??? Didn't they connect to a bolt of lightning via a kite? I inherited a bunch of Smith Victor, and its been in a big box way up in the back of a
shop loft ever since. But this was once standard fare for photo students on a limited budget, and they were expected to make it work.

Drew, IIRC Smith Victors were nothing but painter's lights on tripods.
Took darned near forever to warm tortillas with 'em.

[Tin Can]

Smith Victors are still sold.

I want a set of 4 for props and actual lighting.

Send me your garbage.

[Bob Salomon]

Smith Victor??? Didn't they connect to a bolt of lightning via a kite? I inherited a bunch of Smith Victor, and its been in a big box way up in the back of a
shop loft ever since. But this was once standard fare for photo students on a limited budget, and they were expected to make it work.

The company that now owns Smith Victor now also owns Speedatron, Norman, Photogenic, Cool Lux and Quantum, among other lines like Photoflex.

[Drew Wiley]

Hi Randy. Let me see if I can dig that out. It's fairly inacessable; and I think I know what box it's in, if I can squeeze a tall ladder back there. But I can't remember if I modified any of the lamp housings for a temporary copystand, or if there are stands with the set. Ordinary photofloods work pretty well for
modest durations that won't overheat them. An excellent softbox trick is simply some transluscent polyester sheet velcroed to a simple standing frame made
of PVC pipe, positioned at a save distance from the hot bulbs themselves, of course. I've got to complete some wood joinery on the work table below there
this afternoon, but might be able to wiggle up there over the weekend and see what's still in the box.

[Jim Noel]

It is not the quantity of light, but the quality. If you want to learn good in studio portrait lighting, start with a 5 watt bulb. I was told this probably 50 years ago, used it and never looked back. When i have a difficult lighting situation, I still begin with a 5 watt bare bulb.

[massimodec]

I see I'm not alone...
a 2k to roast steaks could rise some problems in smoke dealing...

But really nobody here never tried one of those new LED lights with Fresnels ?

[LabRat]

Before anyone poo poos SV's, someone gave me a new set with 650W quartz lamps and a project suddenly came up shooting an environmental portrait of an artist/pro photog... I didn't have time to dig out my pro strobes or hot lights, so I grabbed the SV's... I set up Karsh lighting and he and his pro photog brother laughed and teased about the SV'S but the expression on their faces when I presented the 16X20's were priceless... So it's just light...

I now use painters lights for tabletop B/W still lifes 90% of the time as I found even just with a CFL has a nice quality with 4x5 b/w, it's just you have to expose longer than much brighter lights... The stand I use with them is an old microphone boom stand that has a small cast iron base and fits anywhere, and a gooseneck that allows very precise placement, and with no heat the heads can be right next to the subject, camera, and your head... And these can be timed with an enlarger timer for long exposures...


A hot tip for cheap lights is to look for a parabolic reflector inside, as there was some thought and science involved in the design... Then check the falloff with a digital incident meter to see if it's even... Photo floods with that shape have good falloff... So don't knock 'em till you try 'em...

Steve K

[Peter Lewin]

Makes me think of lots of mechanical repair jobs where you can get the job done with a number of different tools, but it is easier with the correct tool. In the days of film, studio strobes were the appropriate lighting source, esp. for MF and LF. When I was doing this semi-professionally I actually had 5 strobe heads I could use, although on site I typically used 2 DynaLites. They all had modeling lights for setting up, and then you used the strobes themselves for the actual exposures. (A third head was a nice luxury to throw on the background.) Continuous lights became the preferred source when digital took over, I don't think any digital cameras even have a PC connection. (I have actually used strobes with a digital camera, slaving the big strobes and triggering them with an on-camera unit turned away from the subject, using it solely as a trigger.)

The problem for the OP is that he doesn't have any studio strobes, just one on-camera type flash. It comes down to cost. I would look for some used studio strobes, you might get lucky. Alternatively, as in the tools example, you can make do with multiple on-camera flashes (you need to trigger one and slave the rest) or make do with continuous lights. I remember seeing a YouTube video using garage work lights from Home Depot or similar, bounced into umbrellas.

[chassis]

Two things for the OP to think about, relative to light, are quantity and quality.

Quantity is power, whether in watt-seconds from a strobe, lumens or watts.

Quality is subjective. An easy example is to compare the effect produced by a speedlight, compared with a large soft box. No comparison, the devices produce a completely different quality of light.

To the OP, what style do you want to aspire to? Whose portraiture do you admire? This helps to guide your equipment decisions.

For MF and LF, studio strobes with or without radio triggers will work. A large range of light quantity and quality is possible with this setup.

[Bob Salomon]

Two things for the OP to think about, relative to light, are quantity and quality.

Quantity is power, whether in watt-seconds from a strobe, lumens or watts.

Quality is subjective. An easy example is to compare the effect produced by a speedlight, compared with a large soft box. No comparison, the devices produce a completely different quality of light.

To the OP, what style do you want to aspire to? Whose portraiture do you admire? This helps to guide your equipment decisions.

For MF and LF, studio strobes with or without radio triggers will work. A large range of light quantity and quality is possible with this setup.

Quantity from strobe is never watt seconds or joules. Those are storage numbers, not output numbers. BCPS, ECBS or f stop are output measurement.

[Tin Can]

I have been adding to my lighting for 20 years. I first bought 2 Lowel Tota (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/32267-REG/Lowel_T1_10_Tota_Light_Tungsten_Flood_Light.html/?ap=y&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIu-zepOqa3wIVj4xpCh3EVQjyEAQYASABEgIj5PD_BwE&lsft=BI%3A514&smp=Y). I still use them.

Then 4 Nikon SB800 (https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product-archive/flashes/sb-800-af-speedlight.html). Still wonderful.

This decade I bought 4 Paul C Buff Einsteins (https://www.paulcbuff.com/Flash-Units/einstein-flash-unit.html)

Now I want to get Paul C Buff latest as they are both strobe and LED. Digibees
(https://www.paulcbuff.com/Flash-Units/digibee-flash-unit.html)

Of course you need stands and modifiers but they all work with what I have so that expense is done.

I have a Honda EU1000 generator I bought 27 years ago, it still works for outdoor location.

I desire the Paul C Buff battery set (https://www.paulcbuff.com/Portable-Power/) as it will work with all PCB.

I have borrowed and quickly returned sets of 1K and 2K Mole lights (https://www.adorama.com/mr412.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkcmun-2a3wIVhEZeCh1htQfGEAQYAiABEgIx8PD_BwE). Way too hot for me.

As I expect most of my gear to survive me, I don't see any of it as too expensive.

20 years ago I 'built' 7000K 95 CRI 48" fluorescent tube lighting on studio stands. I call it my Blue era...

[Jim Noel]

Learn studio lighting from the ground up and you will never have a lighting problem afterwards.
I was taught to begin with a 5 watt bare bulb. Over the years I have acquired and learned to use both hot lights and strobes.I often return to a 5-10 watt bare bulb for still lifes.
Strobes MUST have adjustable modeling lights which vary with the intensity of the strobe.

[Pieter]

I don't know if this has been already brought up, but continuous light is much easier to judge than strobe light. Although strobes have modeling lamps, until you shoot a polaroid or digital shot, you really don't know what you're getting unless you have been lighting for a while and know by experience and light ratios what to expect. On the downside continuous lights generate a lot more heat and can become uncomfortable for a model in a small studio as well as create issues with or need special reflectors, gels, and soft boxes. And strobes are generally more powerful than hot lights.

[6x6TLL]

Learn studio lighting from the ground up and you will never have a lighting problem afterwards.
I was taught to begin with a 5 watt bare bulb. Over the years I have acquired and learned to use both hot lights and strobes.I often return to a 5-10 watt bare bulb for still lifes.
Strobes MUST have adjustable modeling lights which vary with the intensity of the strobe.

Any suggestions for resources (books, online, etc) for learning studio lighting from the ground up?

[Bob Salomon]

Any suggestions for resources (books, online, etc) for learning studio lighting from the ground up?

Good strobes have quartz proportional modeling lights, preferably under a frosted globe that also covers the flash tube and is centered in the flash tube. Then the modeling light will actually show you the lighting ratios and the character of the light from the flash.

[Tin Can]

Oops, I totally forgot about the 3 large LED video panels I bought 5 years ago.

I keep them on wall mounts, moveable to C-Stand at a moment.

Wall mount Booms are very nice, as you can stow a light by pushing it straight up along the wall.

[chassis]

To learn studio lighting, I have learned a lot from these sites: Sekonic, Profoto, Strobist and other photographers’ websites.

[andrewch59]

I only have a very small space to light up for stills and a few portraits. I had a mole richardson tweeny 600w as a mainlight, but it gets so hot. I bought a godox sl60w led continuous white light, bowens mount, works well in my small space. Added a godox parabolic softlight for portraiture, the light is very soft but it works for me. There are examples on you tube

[Pere Casals]

While (IMHO) strobes are technically better, if one wants an intimate deal with subject to get some expression (IMHO) then continuous light provides perhaps a less agressive environment, allowing to develop a better approach.

The drawback is that we can get motion blur...

[Bob Salomon]

While (IMHO) strobes are technically better, if one wants an intimate deal with subject to get some expression (IMHO) then continuous light provides perhaps a less agressive environment, allowing to develop a better approach.

The drawback is that we can get motion blur...

Unless, of course, you have professional quality strobes!

[Tin Can]

Jim Noel is serious about trying 5 watts incandescent. I have.

I also read and tried William Mortensen lighting. Single bare bulb...

Look up how Mortensen did it. He was hated and shunned by Ansel Adams and revered by me. Damn F64!

Overview. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Mortensen

[earlnash]

Check out Timothy Greenfield-Sanders' work. He shoots studio portraits in 8x10. If you're serious about portraiture with artificial light, I'd recommend taking a workshop or class to get started.

[mvanderaa]

Since the OP referred to portraits, I'll speak specifically to that. (I wouldn't use strobes for still life but that's my preference.)
Remember, the larger the light source the softer the light. Soft light doesn't mean you will not have shadows, but rather, the transition from highlight to shadow will be softer or "smokey". The smaller the light source, the harder the shadows (a distinct edge.) There's been some great advice on this thread, and I can only share my opinion and experience. If you truly want to learn portraiture in the studio I would suggest in investing in one professional strobe with a softbox (or octabox). It's the softbox that turns a small light source (the strobe head) into a larger light source. Some of the world's greatest portraits were made with one light.
Continuous lights (fresnels) are not as powerful as a strobe when comparing output $ for $. If you really learn and practice strobe lighting, you can make it indistinguishable from beautiful window light and drastically increase your shutter speed. Moreover, you'll have the flexibility of stopping down or shooting paper negs (or Harman's direct positive) with a strobe (as opposed to very long shutter speeds with natural light or hot lights).
Remember again, the only thing a softbox, octabox, umbrella, beauty dish, etc. do is make the light source larger. I have an octabox in my arsenal that's over 6 feet wide for a Profoto head. Really soft light.
Lastly, the only significant difference in shooting LF with strobes vs. using a DSLR is the need for a handheld light meter. One YouTube video and you'd be off and running with a handheld meter.
Cheers.

[Willie]

Want to do it on the cheap? Check eBay and the like for Metz CT strobes. A ton of power, big bomb proof batteries and prices less than a cup of "designer coffee" at times.
Work with soft boxes and lighting controls.

If you want hot lights check out Lowel Lights. Get Ross Lowell's book MATTERS OF LIGHT AND DEPTH as it can help with creative lighting.

[Peter De Smidt]

For continuous lighting, LEDs have some great qualities. With LF, they are mainly limited to wide apertures and fast film, at least for portraiture, and they will generally be useful for lighting a small area, such as a head-and-shoulders portrait rather than a large set. These will be arriving today: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KB1DNX7/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I'll be happy to report back after I've used them a bit.

[m00dawg]

Ah some good thoughts with both the Metz stuff and LED panels. I ended up getting a Godox/Flashpoint SK400 and a larger octobox than the one I had before. Rather happy with it - the octobox is still perhaps a bit small for full length portraits - I have shoot through umbrellas to try as well (but haven't had the chance yet). The SK400 is pretty damned powerful though I'm still learning a bit how to use it over my small shoe-mount strobes. Since it works with the Godox wireless transmitter, it's been much easier to use since I control the power from the transmitter - that REALLY helped.

I'm still figuring things out though. I'm starting to notice in general shooting bellows draw is a bigger deal than I thought it was - I was previously only accounting for that when the draw was obvious but I noticed using the Reciprocity App on my phone than even somewhat short draw, like 190mm, is enough to warrant compensation (according to the app anyway). That might explain why my LF shots look different than my digital using the same settings (other than the DOF and other things of course). Part of that could be film vs digital as well since of course there will be differences, but bellows is something I'll be measuring in my next portrait session for sure.

Back to the flash, I think it will do a good job for 400 speed films but I suspect it might still be a tad challenging to use a 100 speed film in all situations. Quite a few films available in 400 for sure, though being able to use, say, TMX or the new CHS ii (I just got a box of it whee!) would be nice. It's doable with the flash but at least the last time I shot portraits I did feel like I was still limited on what apertures I could use.

[Tin Can]

I may buy a LED/Strobe combo, 2 in 1. (https://www.paulcbuff.com/Flash-Units/digibee-flash-unit.html)

And a battery to run them. (https://www.paulcbuff.com/Portable-Power/)

[Peter De Smidt]

Yeah, digital tends to be more sensitive than film at a given rating, i.e. 100 speed film versus 100 ISO digital. Godox makes very usable equipment.

[Peter De Smidt]

Randy, the Honey Badger is very similar. I have one. It's nice. The main differences are the mounts, Buff versus Bowens-S. I personally don't like the mounting system on Buff lights, but if you already have them, and are good with them, then I'm sure it's a good choice.

[Bernice Loui]

Consider the word Photography which originates as Light Graph.

Photography is much about light with camera-lens-film-or light recording device. IMO, too much effort by Photographers are spent on camera-lens-film (or image recording device)-processing "tricks", not enough is spent on light and lighting. Much of what the creative-artistic aspects to Photography is about lighting, shadow, shapes and forms as a result of lighting and shadow.

Strobe or Continuous or Natural lighting have their place and neither is better than the other, the choice is dependent on the needs of the creative image. Lighting for Portraiture has change due to fashion and expectations of the Sitters and market. There was a time when continuous or hot lights were the standard for studio Portraiture. Consider the images made by George Hurrell, Clarence Sinclair Bull, Yousuf Karsh and many-many-many others. Hot or Continuous lighting offers the ability to finely control light, shadows allowing forms to be shaped, created and controlled by how this form of lighting is applied. Or, diffusion can be applied as needed to soften the light. There is also the advantage of much reduced Portrait sitter trauma during film exposure as the light is essentially constant-continuous allowing the Sitter to relax, settle in and expression coaxed by the Portraitist to be recorded on film.

Strobe light can be applied in similar ways to continuous lighting except there will be a burst of much higher intensity light at the moment of exposure. This can be quite traumatizing-shocking for a Portrait Sitter. How many group snap shots were redone due to some one in the group shot blinking at the moment when the strobe went "off"? In studio work, the need for high power strobes were directly related to f-stop required and distance from strobe to subject. Smaller the required f-stop, greater the distance from subject to strobe, greater the Watt-Seconds needed and it is NOT linear. To gain one full f-stop typically required twice the number of Watt-seconds or what was once 200 Watt Seconds rapidly becomes over 1000 Watt seconds as the need for smaller f-stops and strobe to subject distances increase. There is also quality of strobe light. Back in days of critical color control demands of commercial and artistic work, strobe light was often measured using flash color temperature meter then CC filters applied to either the lighting or lens to zero in the color balance. Lenses were often purchased as a color matched set to assure changing lens focal length on the camera would result in uniform image color balance. The alternative means to color balance was to do gray card test using the strobe lights-lens-film-processing lab to achieve the desired color balance.

As strobe light became more popular with film photographers and the modern fashion-style of the later 60's-70's took hold, High Key strobe lighted Portraits came into popularity as it fit the Social-Cultural norms of that era. This is about the time when Diffused lighting for Portraits began to become the norm and expectation (Aka Richard Avedon and many, many others). This became the way as it was easier to manage studio portrait lighting and produced acceptable pleasing results for the portrait sitter with good profitability for the Portraitist. What got tossed out and mostly forgotten was the great Portraiture of the previous era using continuous or hot lighting which demanded careful set up and artistic-creative skills from the Portraitist.

Keep in mind, majority of Soft Focus Portrait lenses produce their best images using continuous-hot non-diffused light. This is why many LF lenses from that era had large apertures of f4.5 or so due to the demands for reduced exposure times of Portrait work. Then came powerful strobe lights and the "Everything Sharp" image fashion which require smaller apertures (f-stops) from the lensed to be used. This is likely how the modern common Plasmat LF lens became the norm with a full aperture of f5.6 to ease focusing and a taking aperture of f22 or so. Gone were the Tessar and similar family of LF lenses that did their best at about two f-stops down or f8 to about f16.

Natural light is an entirely different light in SO many ways. This is where magical moments can happen with Landscape Photographers mixed with wondrous shapes and forms found in Nature is often the basis of what makes some Landscape images magical and remarkable in their own way.

Not to be forgotten is Architectural photography with is in many ways a blending of Natural-Artificial lighting with shapes, form, shadow and more..


Bernice

[Tin Can]

Yes, I have a few PCB modifiers and some old reflectors that also fit.

In too deep to change now. I use Nikon and won't switch to anything else as I have a system.

The Honey Badger has less power.

The Interfit Badger is closer in power and cost.

I know a few DSLR shooters that want the way less powerful strobes as that is how they work. At 10% power and less.

[chassis]

Peter, I am interested to see some examples if you care to post them, with the LED panels. Do you plan to use modifiers with them?

[Peter De Smidt]

They just arrived. I've only unpacked one so far. The light quality looks very good. I'll do some measurements with a color meter this weekend and report back. I plan on using my Fuji 680 with a 180mm f/3.2 lens wide open for some portraits. I had planned on using the lights very close and unmodified, but if there's enough light, I might use some diffusion panels.

[coolbreeze1983]

Nice research site for lighting: https://strobist.blogspot.com

[dmihelarakis]

I did 18 years with film (mostly medium format) and now have about the same time span with digital. Digital just caught up to film quality wise about 5 years ago!

[Charles S]

The biggest issue is the amount of light you need when shooting LF. If you start adding low ISO, you are close in but need some DOF and the bellows you need a lot of light.

For studio portraits, after some experimentation, I settled on 400WS Bowens strobes off eBay for about 200USD each. They are solidly built dumb heads, triggered by a pocketwizzard and slave settings for the rest. There is really no need to buy new and smarter heads if you use them for LF in a studio. I also use the same heads with my digital gear, and I find it easier than fiddling with settings on a remote. If you can handle the LF process, you can handle manual flash heads.

Two heads are sufficient to shoot portraits with a beauty dish as main and a large softbox for fill. It gets me to f/11 @ISO 100 on a Fuji W 250mm for the 8x10, without bellows compensation. It is just at the edge of what I need in terms of DOF.
If I need more, I rate the film at ISO 200 and develop in Microphen, or use ISO 200 film. If I need an additional stop, I use an ISO 200 Film w Microphen which nets to two additional stops over my base setup. The grain is fine enough to my taste, so it is not an issue.

Obviously you can add a hair light, lighting on the back drop, move the main and fill around etc but this doesn't affect the amount of light falling on the face by much more than a stop if you are careful.

I use the same kind of set-up, with the same film when I shoot with my MF gear. Works every time.

192583

[DG 3313]

197893

Speedotron Force 10s on 8x10 HP-5 with a 12" Commercial Ektar