Selling Prints Online

[Allan B]

Hi,

I would like to start selling prints online.
I am looking at print on demand companies.
You upload digital files, they take orders, print the photos, ship, etc.
I don't expect to make a full time living doing this,
but some extra money would be great.

Does anyone here have experience with Fine Art America,
Society6, or similar companies?

It seems that with so many artists represented, it would be difficult
to be found, get the right buyers, etc.

Thanks for your help,
Allan

[j.e.simmons]

I’ve had a Fine Art America account for about six months. I uploaded about 10 images and got busy with another project and did almost nothing to promote it. I received a notice a couple of weeks ago that one image had sold. I should know after the 15th of this month if they pay as promised.

[Light Guru]

The only people that go to those sites are people wanting to sell their art.

Waste of time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Allan B]

Thank you for your help. If you or other photographers have any suggestions on what works well
for online sales, please let me know. Is it is better to find a traditional gallery?
Or perhaps sell art on your own website, etc.

Thank you. Allan

[Alan9940]

Thank you for your help. If you or other photographers have any suggestions on what works well
for online sales, please let me know. Is it is better to find a traditional gallery?
Or perhaps sell art on your own website, etc.

Thank you. Allan

I would suspect that you have to be a 'name' already before any traditional gallery will handle your work. Plus, they take quite a large chunk of the sale. A website is a possibility, but the issue there is driving traffic to your website. Typically, you need to be very active with all the social media outlets to keep your name out there and get people visiting your website. I had a website for many years for selling my work and I only sold a few things; not even enough to cover the cost of the site. Not saying it can't be done, rather IMO it's a tough road.

I tell you what my photo mentor told me many years ago, he said, "Forget trying to make a living selling personal work. Ansel Adams can, Brett Weston can, Paul Cap can...sort of...and from there on down, forget it. Go into something that will support your life style and, at the same time, gives you enough time for photography." I took his advice, did photography as time allowed, retired early, and now I'm spending more time on my photographic pursuits.

Good luck with whatever direction your photography takes you.

[Randy]

I like Alan9940's advice. As Doug, my old camera collector buddy once told me - "An amateur photographer is one who has to have a part-time job to support his hobby. A professional photographer is one who's spouse has to have a part-time job to support his hobby".

[Jim Jones]

For several decades I sold photographs at a local arts & crafts fair. People asked if I had a web site. I didn't, and therefore probably lost a few sales to people who became aware of my photos at the fair. Face-to-face interaction is a far better advertisement than any face-to-screen viewing.

[Drew Wiley]

I discovered that web surfers are exactly that - web surfers. When I had a website, a rather nice one for that early-on phase, I got compliments from all over
the world, but zero print sales from it. In fact, every single print I've ever sold in my life was because someone saw the real deal. As Hannibal Lecter put it,
"one covets what one sees" - not sorta guesses what it might look like a hundred times bigger in vastly more detail and tonal nuance.

[Jeff Donald]

I make on average about $300 to $400 a month on FAA.

[j.e.simmons]

Jeff, about how many images do you have up? I’m assuming you have the paid membership.

[Corran]

You ask the perennial question.
How do you make a million in [photography]? Start with two million.
What's the difference between a [photographer] and a pizza? A pizza feeds a family of four.

I'm not an expert. I've sold a few prints, but not nearly enough. I am working hard on this question. I think the first step to success is being lucky. Unfortunately I've never been one to be called lucky. I have not personally found an online service or site to be particularly helpful in sales or marketing as a nobody. I have to wonder how Jeff, above, sells anything on that site at all, much less thousands of dollars a year. I'm not seeing it.

I am trying to market towards uniqueness of the process (b&w silver prints) so "print-on-demand" services are not in my wheelhouse, but perhaps it is something to consider for auxiliary sales. Perhaps Jeff can enlighten us as to how it happens he sells that much and of what images. I am seeing a lot of highly processed digital HDR images that, for me, are frankly anathema.

[Drew Wiley]

Where there's a will there's a way. But I've seen enough starving artists already. I even had a family member who attained international fame as a painter
and was collected by all the major museums in this country plus some in Europe, and still barely got by financially half her life. On the other hand, there are
a few truly wretched photographers and painters who have done extremely well by successfully marketing to the lowest common denominator of taste. Not
for me either. What's the point if you hate what you're doing? When I was younger and more ambitious, I had a few bursts of sales that came at just the
right time in my life, with the prints selling for fairly high figures for that era. Today three or four hundred bucks would barely cover the cost of framing a
single moderately large print, even using my own facility. But the presence of jillions of scratchy little images on the web for sale is just like a set of golden arches spoiling the skyline in every town in America as far as I'm concerned. Serving up fast food isn't for me, no matter how popular it has become.

[faberryman]

Today three or four hundred bucks would barely cover the cost of framing a single moderately large print, even using my own facility. It certainly doesn't cover the time and effort.

[Drew Wiley]

A friend of mine was all excited that he sold twenty 11X14 prints in a single day at one of those quasi-gallery events. At $200 apiece, that's $4000 in a single day! But he paid $175 apiece to have them framed, and also paid a lab about $60 apiece to print them, including a number of other prints that didn't sell. Then the "gallery" wanted its 50% cut. He had spent about twenty thousand dollars for his two trips - one to Tibet and the other to the Everest base camp, to take those shots, for which he assumed he just absolutely had to have the latest Canon SLR and its most expensive zoom lenses. Hey - if he had
fun doing it, great. But he would have made far more money holding out a tin cup on the street corner.

[faberryman]

$175 for an 11x14 frame is kind of expensive, don't you think? I mean for a print you price at $200. Who would do it?

[Jeff Donald]

Jeff, about how many images do you have up? I’m assuming you have the paid membership.

I did an experiment several years ago and posted 600 images on the site. I posted all of them within about 30 days and then posted no more. It took about 6 months for the first sale and since then have averaged what about $300 to $400 a month (higher towards the holidays and lower just after). In my opinion, it’s really a numbers game, the more you post, the more you’ll sell.

[Drew Wiley]

$175 is cheap for any commercial framer. They have overhead and typically need high-rent locations to be successful. What this fellow should have done is
use some do-it-yourself framing facility. He even had his own nice Fletcher matcutter, but never learned the right technique and wanted everything to look
just right. Lots of folks just want to get their token two hours of fame among friends and associates. There are also a number of venues where artists get
together and temporarily rent show space, paying apiece relative to square footage. Most of them lose money; but it seems to be something fun to do together, an artiste lifestyle thing. Selling high-end work is a completely different ballgame. I've often tacked a minimum of an extra thousand bucks onto a print just for the framing, which I always do myself. I predominantly worked in Cibachrome, which is a fragile media, esp in big sizes; so it's best sold fully
protected. Now I predominantly make fiber-based black and white prints, which can be optionally sold simply dry-mounted. But sometimes I make big
Fuji Supergloss prints analogous to Ciba. They aren't quite as susceptible to fingerprinting, kink marks, or electrostatic dust, but still deserve the full treatment of framing. That high gloss will show any imperfection in mounting or lighting. Ordinary RC color paper is easier. But the web is useless for showing the kind of hues and detail nuances that makes any these prints special to begin with. If someone is just looking for subject matter, guess it's OK.

[Taija71A]

I make on average about $300 to $400 a month on FAA.

Okay... That may be just fine for you.
--
However, please remember... That this site is 'primarily' a LARGE Format Film Photography Forum.
Personally, I do not know anyone... That can afford to sell their 'LF Prints' for $29.

Thank-you!


... I am seeing a lot of highly processed digital HDR images that, for me, are frankly anathema.

+100.

~~ "To Each His Own." ~~

[Jim Michael]

Who supplies the physical prints? If it’s FAA you might actually make it up in volume.


Okay... That may be just fine for you.
--
However, please remember... That this site is 'primarily' a LARGE Format Film Photography Forum.
Personally, I do not know anyone... That can afford to sell their 'LF Prints' for $29.

Thank-you!



+100.

~~ "To Each His Own." ~~

[j.e.simmons]

The original poster asked about places like FAA which prints, frames and ships. I don’t know what camera Jeff used, but my one sale was from a scanned 4x5 negative.

[Taija71A]

Yes... Please keep us all informed.
I would be very 'interested' to know, what the 'Net Margin' is -- On your Print Sale.

[j.e.simmons]

On FAA you’re not selling prints. It’s much like selling ebooks. Upload once and hopefully sell many times. It’s a different business model entirely than selling prints.

[Taija71A]

On FAA you’re not selling prints. It’s much like selling ebooks. Upload once and hopefully sell many times.
It’s a different business model entirely than selling prints.

Like others... I understand the Business "Model". It is definitely nothing new...
However, I was under the understanding... That the Title of this Thread was:

"Selling Prints Online".

[jnantz]

i have been selling a handful of very large prints a year through imagekind...
now, for about 10 years. ive sold them to private and commecial clients
and there have not been any complaints. at one point they could not print anything larger than 4'x6'
now i think they can print even larger ( i might be wrong ). last year i needed a pair
of 8foot by 6foot prints on canvas, but they couldn't print ultra wide, so instead we worked with 4 - 4foot by 6foot stretched canvas prints.
they were consumate professionals in every respect, a real pleasure to work with, can't complain one bit.
they print on a variety of papers with pigment inks too. large or small they crate ship domestic and internationally.

i don't sell mine for peanuts. i was told if i did i could sell more, more often. i don't want to do it and keep my prices where they have been for years
no matter what they ( people/photographes &c ) tell you, most of the time none of these places promote you have to do that on your own. there are exceptions to every rule
though, some more selective websites that cater to the interior design community have sales reps in LA, NY and LONDON...

YMMV

[Drew Wiley]

I don't know Clyde Butcher. But from what he has written about himself, he distinctly hated what he was doing by mass-marketing cutesy postcardy images. I give him great credit for leaving behind that unsatisfying business model despite it supporting him, and having the courage to shoot and print subject matter he believed in, found rewarding to print, and managed to sell on his own terms afterwards.

[Allan B]

Thank you everyone for your comments and experience. I want to mention one point.
I asked about Fine Art America and similar sites because it makes it easier.
You do not print the images, ship photos, collect the money, etc.
They do that for you and you make less profit on a sale, but spend less time, etc.

I have very limited experience selling fine art prints. I am primarily a portrait
and commercial photographer, with a studio in Denver, Colorado.
I realize that it is tough to get started in the fine art market and I am
evaluating my options.

If anyone has further information, please feel free to comment. I will follow these posts.

Again, thank you for your help. Allan

[Drew Wiley]

Sounds almost like a stock photo arrangement, something which once paid handsomely, in pre-digital, mainly LF days, but now a mere pittance. "Fine Art" is
pretty much a plastic term anyway, that can mean just about anything, like potentially calling Denneys or Burger King "fine cuisine". But there's nothing wrong with experimenting in order to find your groove. Gotta get to first base first.

[Jeff Donald]

Who supplies the physical prints? If it’s FAA you might actually make it up in volume.

FAA makes the prints and will do the fulfillment or ship the product to the photographer to inspect and deliver/ship. The photographer sets the price. The photographer sets the sizes of prints available. The photographer sets the profit and FAA adds their costs on top of the photographers profit. Customers can order the print framed or unframed and do it themselves. Photographers get a percentage of the cost of frames and matts. The prints are guaranteed by FAA and payment is delayed 30 days in case the customer returns the print(s).

[Jeff Donald]

The original poster asked about places like FAA which prints, frames and ships. I don’t know what camera Jeff used, but my one sale was from a scanned 4x5 negative.

I use all sorts of cameras, including 4x5 and various digital models (Canon) even iPhones. The majority of my sales are from digital files from various Canon models. However, I’ve sold several images from scanned 4x5 negatives (B&W).

[jnantz]

Yes... Please keep us all informed.
I would be very 'interested' to know, what the 'Net Margin' is -- On your Print Sale.

hi Taija71A
im not on FAA. imagekind has all their
prices upfront and people can charge whatever you want
from 1$ profit to 1000% profit. they send you a check
after the "return time" is up ( they offer a MBG so if the buyer doesn't like
the printing &c they just return it and get $ back ). they will sell your work
on amazon, blast you on their various feeds, but they don't have a rep
to shop your work around. they don't really care wha you upload. some folks
upload "figurative work" otherrs sketches and paintings, others adamsesque landscapes
others stuff that is sort of off the wall, and others just import their flickr feed.
i can't speak for FAA but ... i was going to go there and saachix2 about 5 or 6 years ago
when imagekind had some sort of a glitch, their services did not
seem at the same level too many fish in a small tank. saachi had in-site contests &c
which i wasn't interrestd in both offered lots of glimmer but no gold.
im sure they are all the same. $wise, unless FAA and saachisaachi have specific prices they make you charge.
but as i said earlier. imagekind's customer service ( both for someone who uploads and who buys )
is top notch .. and their printing is as well. can't complain at all ...
i won't post my sales figures but i'll just say it has been worth it.

[Taija71A]

Hi jnanian!

Thanks, for your latest message reply to the thread.
You have posted, some very 'Insightful' and constructive comments Re: Selling Prints Online.
--
I sincerely hope, that thing$ continue to go really well for you... On 'Imagekind'. :)
Best regards,

-Tim.
________

[Taija71A]

@ jnanian...

You have a PM. Please clear some space in your 'In Box'. :p
Thanks!

[Willie]

FAA - The Federal Aviation Administration sell prints?

[Taija71A]

fineartamerica
https://fineartamerica.com/shop/prints/faa

[John Olsen]

This is a timely thread for me. I've gotten out of the galleries that were taking so much of my time and have put up items now on Ebay. I'll let you know in a few weeks whether it works for me, but feedback and advice from LFF members would be interesting also.

[Corran]

John, I am interested in how it goes for you on eBay. I personally see eBay as a small to non-existent marketplace for art (other than big-time collector stuff) but I would be happy to be wrong.

Some time ago I made a thread about art/prints and the current thinking of my generation (Millennials) about "stuff." There was a Marketplace story this evening that had some interesting perspective about home decor. They mention art a little bit and how Millennials may prefer making things themselves or simply having their own experiences rather than buying art.

A quick quote:
“We don’t purchase art anymore,” she said. “We make art and use Pinterest and Ikea hacks. It’s cheaper. It looks cool and it’s more representative of us.”

How the financial crisis changed the way we think about home (Marketplace APM) (https://www.marketplace.org/2018/06/29/economy/how-financial-crisis-changed-way-we-think-home)

This week I am lucky to have sold 7 prints, small to midsize images. It'll take a bit more to get me enthusiastic about the market for art.

[j.e.simmons]

I’ll just add that Fine Art America paid just as they promised.

[jim10219]

These days, selling prints is all about making a personal connection. Sure you can sell stuff online or at a gallery just by throwing enough stuff out there, but that’s a hard road to hoe if you’re not already a recognized name. What people really want to buy isn’t a photograph, but the experience of meeting an artist and being a part of a scene.

My fiancé has sold many prints online for some pretty sizable profits. Her trick is being active on social media platforms and interacting with anyone and everyone. Every time she posts a photo on Instagram and some comments that they like it, she responds quickly. Often times that leads to a conversation about that photo or others that she’s done, and occasionally they’ll ask to buy a print. Since we have a calibrated large format printer, it’s relatively cheap for us to print off whatever they ask, and just ship them the photo, saving us money by not having to frame it, and them money on shipping. I prefer to do things the old fashioned ways, so I never sell anything online (not that I haven’t tried). People don’t seem to be as impressed with analog photography unless they see it in person.

When selling at local galleries, art festivals, etc., we purchase our frames from thrift stores and garage sales. I visit about 3 thrift stores a week looking for frames (and other cool stuff). Sometimes they need to be cleaned up or painted, but some naphtha and spray paint makes quick work of that. At first, the idea of using used and worn frames seems like it would hamper your sales. But after you’ve amassed a decent collection of frames, you can start to pick the right frame for each photo, and suddenly those defects turn into character. We also buy large sheets of matte board and hand cut them ourselves.

I can’t say either one of us makes a living doing this alone. But I can say we’ve met a lot of interesting people and had a lot of fun without going broke.

Honestly, the only people I know who make a living doing photography are those who are paid to shoot specific things. Stuff like weddings, family portraits, yearbooks, special events, products, and fashion. And even those guys (and gals) will tell you it’s more about networking and salesmanship than actually taking good photos. I’d say about half of the full time professional photographers I know are actually really good photographers. The other half just know enough to do an adequate job and market themselves. And of course, they all know how to shmooze and network.

I’ve never met anyone who makes a living photographing stuff that they are actually passionate about. I mean, they might be passionate about doing a good job and pushing their own limitations as a photographer, but no one says “my life’s dream is to photograph 700 different seals for automotive transmissions”. All of the professional photographers I know shoot one thing for money, and something entirely different for fun.

[brucetaylor]

All right Jim, I’m going to photograph 700 seals for automotive transmissions as a passion project. You’ve inspired me!
I’m only half kidding. I saw a Brett Weston show that included a valve body for an auto trans. As I have boxes of obsolete ZF trans parts I’m going to give it a go.
Sorry. This in no way contributes to the selling prints online subject, but I couldn’t resist.

[jim10219]

All right Jim, I’m going to photograph 700 seals for automotive transmissions as a passion project. You’ve inspired me!
I’m only half kidding. I saw a Brett Weston show that included a valve body for an auto trans. As I have boxes of obsolete ZF trans parts I’m going to give it a go.
Sorry. This in no way contributes to the selling prints online subject, but I couldn’t resist.

Some of those seals and other parts in the rebuild kits were kind of cool looking, I'll admit. Especially in a macro perspective, or playing with the geometric arrangements of multiple circular seals of varying size, material, and color. In fact that wasn't just a random comment. It was based on real life events. A few years ago I did 30 photos for this company for some ads and posters (I'm a graphic designer). Then they came back to me and said they wanted to do a product catalog with pictures for everything in their entire line. I referred them to someone who does photography for a living. I have a day job and they couldn't pay me enough to waste the months worth of free time it would require for me to do all of that. Transmission seals are caked in grease, even when new! You spend more time cleaning grease than you do photographing!

Which feeds back into my original point. Making money in photography is all about networking. I know several photographers and a job came to me that I didn't want. So I gave it to someone who I thought would and would do a good job at a fair price. Everyone walked away happy.

[Grandpa Ron]

Selling the type of photos you like may keep your integrity but selling what the public wants keeps you fed.

You are either in business or not. You either have a niche following or you do not. People buy what they like not what others like.

Large format makes great prints, but it is the subject of those prints that sells.

[C.Wetherill]

This is a timely thread for me. I've gotten out of the galleries that were taking so much of my time and have put up items now on Ebay. I'll let you know in a few weeks whether it works for me, but feedback and advice from LFF members would be interesting also.

I was a little more than a year ahead of you... I've been mainly a buyer on eBay since ~1998, but have also used it to sell some excess photo gear over the years.

So, in April or May of 2017 I started putting some of my prints up for sale there. A typical one might get only one or two views per week (and I'm not sure they aren't bots), but I've only had two that were ever bookmarked (put on someone's Watch list), I've gotten no messages or inquiries from anyone, and no sales.

I've tried to be creative in choosing titles, to encourage serendipitous discovery in search results -- for example, someone looking for South Park DVD's might find my picture of the real place.

https://www.ebay.com/usr/yavo for anyone who wants to look at a sampling of my work, comments welcome.

[wyofilm]

Another route is to become a youtube photography personality: Thomas Heaton, James Popsys, and others make a living from youtube income and from the prints that they sell. I doubt this is the route you were thinking of, but this is how they do it.

Has anyone had luck with Etsy?

[bolderj]

Hi,

I would like to start selling prints online.
I am looking at print on demand companies.
You upload digital files, they take orders, print the photos, ship, etc.
I don't expect to make a full time living doing this,
but some extra money would be great.

Does anyone here have experience with Fine Art America,
Society6, or similar companies?

It seems that with so many artists represented, it would be difficult
to be found, get the right buyers, etc.

Thanks for your help,
Allan

Hey Allan,
I asked myself the same question and did a lot of research. I found this company called ShootProof.com
They have all the essentials for selling to ordering prints and delivery. And payment processing.
They cost cheap per month compared to others.
Their blog boasts other sellers do quite well making sometimes 6 digits.

Ken