Another ballhead for 8x10 question/ comparison thread

[Moogie]

I thought I also going to consult the wise forum before making a decision and ask for your opinions.

I am a fan of ballheads and soon will have my first 8x10 arriving.
As for my 4x5 my old Hama 60mm ball and my smaller Manfrotto 498 have been trusted tools.
But even though the tight ball are pretty good, I felt that the losen up is a bit careful to control otherwise gets too lose too quickly.

But as I want to keep using a ballhead, I feel a new version stronger one must be acquired.

Now is the question which one it should be.
I have narrowed it down to 3 models looking at other threads to similar topics:
Arca Swiss Monoball Z1, Gitzo GH5381SQD or FLM Centerball 58 FT.

They all look very good and sturdy to me but I have difficulties to decide which one is best for my purpose.
Most important is the elimination of above described challenge; I want to be able to adjust the view by loosening the ball a bit and have enough friction to control the movements without any risk of slamming down the camera.

My total weight will be around 10 KG.

Price range used should be around 300-400 $.
Weight is for all similar, so 100-200 grams difference is not an issue.

Which one do you recommend?

Thanks a lot and best regards, Miguel

[Bob Salomon]

Novoflex large Classic Ball or the Linhof Large bullhead.
There are lots of better ball heads you haven’t considered yet!

[Moogie]

Thanks Bob.
These also look quite good.
May I ask in which way they are better than the three I have pre-selected?
From the advertised maximum weight it looks like they could carry less but maybe for the other ones it is only overpromised and for the Linhof and Novoflex underpromised?

[Bob Salomon]

Thanks Bob.
These also look quite good.
May I ask in which way they are better than the three I have pre-selected?
From the advertised maximum weight it looks like they could carry less but maybe for the other ones it is only overpromised and for the Linhof and Novoflex underpromised?
You really have to find out how the maximum capacity was arrived at. With that weight at a, say, 45 degree angle for a period of extended time, perhaps at the end of an extension, or just by putting the weight directly on top of the head?

The Novoflex has easily selected pre set tension adjustments that are user adjustable, if desired!

[mdarnton]

I was looking at ball heads a while ago and in all of my geeking discovered that some are made with balls that aren't quite round. This encourages the camera to stay upright, increasing the friction as the ball tilts within the housing. It seemed like a great feature to me, especially for a camera that's mostly used upright (i.e., LF as opposed to 35mm) but I don't see this spec listed too often. Maybe the "good" heads assume it? I sure would like a list! Vanguard calls it "semi-elliptical".

I never liked ball heads for small cameras, but I'm getting a lot of pleasure out of a $25 Ebay one under my 8x10 Intrepid, and am thinking of upgrading.

[Alan9940]

Personally, I found a ballhead for 8x10 unusable in that it’s hard to get the camera set exactly how you want it; horizontal and tilt orientation. I found that if I had the tension control loose enough to allow easy movement of the camera, then it would “flop” toward the angle, and if tight enough to hold the camera more securely, then it was difficult to move. I returned to a good ‘ole pan/tilt head and I’ve been very happy with that.

Anyway, another ballhead you may wish to research is the Really Right Stuff BH-55.

[Bob Salomon]

Personally, I found a ballhead for 8x10 unusable in that it’s hard to get the camera set exactly how you want it; horizontal and tilt orientation. I found that if I had the tension control loose enough to allow easy movement of the camera, then it would “flop” toward the angle, and if tight enough to hold the camera more securely, then it was difficult to move. I returned to a good ‘ole pan/tilt head and I’ve been very happy with that.

Anyway, another ballhead you may wish to research is the Really Right Stuff BH-55.

A leveling head is probably the best choice. Especially 3 way ones.

[cowanw]

I have used both the Arca Swiss and the FLM and both will do the job perfectly well. (As will the other choices I am sure) The FLM does offer a one way tilt option as well which can be of additional use.

[Alan9940]

A leveling head is probably the best choice. Especially 3 way ones.

Hi Bob,

Yeah, I bought a Gitzo G1570M head for 8x10 and I've been much happier working with that head. It sits on top of a carbon fiber surveyors style tripod and the whole setup is light and easy to carry over great distances. My Ries A100 tripod is great, too, but that sucker is HEAVY!

[Ari]

Here's a very thorough ball head round-up from a couple of years ago: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/battle-of-the-titans-top-ball-heads-tested

Contact me by email if you have any questions about the FLM ball head; I've used them with 8x10 and smaller for five years.
Rock-solid, with the tilt lock feature, adds up to a very stable, easily repeatable support system.

[Bob Salomon]

Here's a very thorough ball head round-up from a couple of years ago: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/battle-of-the-titans-top-ball-heads-tested

Contact me by email if you have any questions about the FLM ball head; I've used them with 8x10 and smaller for five years.
Rock-solid, with the tilt lock feature, adds up to a very stable, easily repeatable support system.
Sorry but this is not a thorough tease. It is a test, apparently, of what was available in whatever country the theater was living in! For instance, no mention that the Novoflex Classic Ball 3 is supplied with a fully automatic locking, Arca style QR, no mention of that type of release even being available and that release predates the Q release that was tested!
No mention of the Large Giottos ball head that is available with an Arca style QR! No mention of the Linhof Profi 3 which accepts any type QR and today is available with an Arca type!
And, please bear in mind, Ari is the North American distributor for FLM, just as I, until early 2015, was the distributor for Linhof, Novoflex, Berlebach and Giottos.

[Jim Andrada]

I've had my 8 x 10 Kardan Bi on the Arca Monoball and it was very stable. But you do have to be careful to control the camera while adjusting it or mounting/un-mounting. Things can be get quite "interesting" quite quickly if it slips away from you. Don't ask how I know!!! I also have an FLM head (not the largest, though) that works fine with my Seneca 8 x 10 - not sure I'd put anything much heavier on it though.

[Ari]

Bob, everybody nitpicks that review but the tester, who is in the US, made use of everything that was available to him at the time; further, he used some good, quantifiable scientific methods to check various ball head parameters.
I make no secret about being the FLM distributor, but I also happen to be a user of the gear in my capacity as a working photographer.

[Bob Salomon]

Bob, everybody nitpicks that review but the tester, who is in the US, made use of everything that was available to him at the time; further, he used some good, quantifiable scientific methods to check various ball head parameters.
I make no secret about being the FLM distributor, but I also happen to be a user of the gear in my capacity as a working photographer.
Ari, since we were the distributor then he didn’t make use of everything available in the USA then nor can I ever remember his asking me about what was available.
And I also use things we sold like Profi heads and Novoflex QR on Linhof tripods, even though I retired from HP when the company closed in 15.

[Drew Wiley]

Ballheads are the root of all evil when it comes to 8x10. They make absolutely no sense. The laws of physics are hard to repeal. Might be suitable for a trailer hitch.

[Peter De Smidt]

Well, Drew, I'm not sure about that. Yeah, a big monorail on one doesn't sound like fun, but something like an 8x10 Chamonix, being light and having a large base to grip, might not be bad. I've used 4x5 field cameras on an Arca B1 without major problems. I briefly use an FLM head with a Kodak D2 8x10, and the special tilt function worked fine. But I thought that you don't even use a head?

[esearing]

Giottos MH3000 - Strong enough for a 600mm lens on a DSLR it will hold your 8x10 and is overkill for my 4x5. I also use a video quick release system which is broader and longer than the tiny camera QR systems, and mounted to a Bogen 3021BN tripod. total weight about 10 pounds and I can hike about 5 miles with it (some days).

[Jim Becia]

I thought I also going to consult the wise forum before making a decision and ask for your opinions.

I am a fan of ballheads and soon will have my first 8x10 arriving.
As for my 4x5 my old Hama 60mm ball and my smaller Manfrotto 498 have been trusted tools.
But even though the tight ball are pretty good, I felt that the losen up is a bit careful to control otherwise gets too lose too quickly.

But as I want to keep using a ballhead, I feel a new version stronger one must be acquired.

Now is the question which one it should be.
I have narrowed it down to 3 models looking at other threads to similar topics:
Arca Swiss Monoball Z1, Gitzo GH5381SQD or FLM Centerball 58 FT.

They all look very good and sturdy to me but I have difficulties to decide which one is best for my purpose.
Most important is the elimination of above described challenge; I want to be able to adjust the view by loosening the ball a bit and have enough friction to control the movements without any risk of slamming down the camera.

My total weight will be around 10 KG.

Price range used should be around 300-400 $.
Weight is for all similar, so 100-200 grams difference is not an issue.

Which one do you recommend?

Thanks a lot and best regards, Miguel

You are going to hear that ball heads are terrible for LF. However, I have been using my trusty Arca Swiss B1 (I'm guessing the predecessor to Z1) for close to 17 years now and it has performed flawlessly. I guess I don't have the problems adjusting that many others purport to have, and I use it with my 8x10 cameras - Ebony and Chamonix. It is stable, easy to adjust, and simply works. If you are comfortable with a ball head, then by all means use one. I have not used the other mentioned in your post so I am not qualified on talking about them. And as a side note, I have been traveling and using my 8x10s for at least 10 to 12 weeks a year, so I am not a "once in a while" user.

[Moogie]

Dear forum friends,

Thanks a lot for all your comments and recommendations.
I did not expect to receive so many inputs.
As I learned from all of you, of course there is a big controversy about the question if a tripod in general is reasonable for LF but as I have written in my starting explanation I prefer the ball heads and will definitely give it a try.
If I wanted to afford it, I might also consider a kind of Arca Cube maybe in the future but I do not like the 3 way heads with the sticks.

But I am very happy I received so many new ball heads suggestions I did not know before and was able to review them and make up my own mind.
So you all helped me a lot.

Nevertheless it seems now to me, that after seeing all the other ball heads, my favourite ones are still the Arca and the LFM.
The Gitzo will probably be not in the consideration anymore.
The tendency goes slightly to the LFM mainly because of the tilt function.
Of course best would be I could go to shop and try them but this option is limited and I also do not like to abuse the shop and buy later online.
In the second hand online website I frequently use is one LFM for sale. I think I am going to contact the seller and see if we can find a deal.

Thanks again to everybody for your insights and useful information.

Miguel

[Moogie]

Dear forum friends,

After I now tried out in total 3 ballheads; the area b1, an old Hama 60mm and the FLM.
Now my experience is that the Arca is already having problems with my 4x5 as well as the Hama.
They are both strong enough to hold the weight easily but also go too loose to quick when you want to move.
The FLM is for me definitely the best of them all holding the weight with ease but also let me release the friction in a very controlled way and the 8x10 Deardorff is a pleasure to use with it. Standing on the Berlebach it is an ideal combo.
Thanks a lot for all of your contributions letting me find out the most suitable ballheads and the right one for my usage as well!

Miguel

[Leszek Vogt]

It's all relative. I happen to have the Z1, which is rated at 130lbs. It's a solid performer whether I use 5x7 (even at an angle) or Nikkor 400/3.5 + body. No idea how it will react on 8x10. Not able to comment on any other ball heads. However, if you adjust and center the camera/lens gravity, you probably could make a cheaper support to cooperate with your demands.

Overall, it's rather frustrating and counter productive to have the head slip on you (when it's in locked position) or somehow disengages and the camera tumbles down the canyon (or wherever). Anyway, appropriate tripod technique is essential prior to installing the camera....even a smaller one. Most of us (here) may be diligent about it but accidents do happen.

Les

[Roger Beck]

I put the biggest lens I have on a Deardorff and on a tripod, tilted down. This was the only head I have that held without slipping or movement. You normally wouldn't want to do that, but if you'r'e minimizing weight for a trip it weighs 1 lb 9 oz. Gitzo GH3382QD Series 3 Center Ball Head. Designed in France made in Italy, used by Germans.

https://www.amazon.com/Gitzo-GH3382QD-Center-Ball-Black/dp/B019YEQ4XO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1534433286&sr=8-1&keywords=gitzo+ball+head&dpID=51EnYDsFhML&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

[Luis-F-S]

For about 1/5th the price you can get a Magestic head, which is far superior and steadier. Designed in Chicago, made in the US.

[tgtaylor]

For several years now I have been using the z1-sp mounted on the center plate of a Gitzo G1347 for the Toyo 810MII with no problems - at least since I solved the problems of using the Arca quick release with the Toyo. The Arca easily and securely holds the weight of the camera regardless of the lens or extension (starting with a balanced tripod is essential) and the Toyo front standard locks firmly with no drift regardless of the lens weight. I've even used the Arca for a time with the Toyo 810G but switched to a 3-way head for the G. A 3-way head is better for the 8x10 but I want to use the same tripod and head for the MII as I use with the 4x5's and 6x7 cameras. Once mounted the Arca ball is loosened enough to center the bubbles on both standards before locking down. To unmount, I tilt the clam shell up so that it slides toward my body when I loosen the lock. The vice-like locking mechanism of the Arca is superior to other locking mechanisms which is probably why other manufactures copied the design.

Thomas

[Ben Calwell]

I never thought a ball head would be a good match for a large format view camera, but maybe I need to rethink that. I've always used pan/tilt heads for my 4x5 and larger cameras. Seems like a view camera would be in pretty precarious position on top of a ball head, especially if you forgot to tighten a knob or something.

[Luis-F-S]

I never thought a ball head would be a good match for a large format view camera, but maybe I need to rethink that. I've always used pan/tilt heads for my 4x5 and larger cameras. Seems like a view camera would be in pretty precarious position on top of a ball head, especially if you forgot to tighten a knob or something.

I think your initial assertion is accurate. Why I use either Ries or Majestic heads for 45, 57, 810 & 1114.

[Drew Wiley]

It might as well be resting atop a slippery bald head as a wobbly ball head.