Newbie of sorts: Photoshop Now?

[Drew Bedo]

I am an old-newbie in this: Not a computer-wiz either.

I used photoshop CS 3 years ago. I used it to process scanned 8x1 0 negatives . Used it for minimal adjustments to contrast and for cropping, that sort of thing. Out put was ink-jet printing. Never did need to use layers. Then came a newer computer and serious problems re-installing the software. That is another story that I do not want to tell in this thread. What I have been limping along with is a copy of elements that is not fully compatable with Windows 10, or maybe its the settings I use.

All that is to intro my question(s).

What product from Adobe do I need to get? I see that they won't sell me a box woth a disk anymore; subscription only with cloud access and so on. I need a little hand-holding on this.

[Eric Biggerstaff]

Drew,

My Adobe photo subscription runs $10/month and allows access to Photoshop, Lightroom, Bridge, etc. So, you can pick and choose which you want to use. Some people do not like the monthly fee but I find it well worth it.

[Jim Jones]

A few years ago I bought Photoshop CS6 when it was on sale in anticipation of Adobe's move to cloud only versions. However, PSE 7 still takes care of most editing on my Windows 7 system. Adobe isn't the only useful publisher. Irfanview is handier for most basic tasks than other programs. Gimp is good (and free). There are several other viable alternatives to Adobe products.

[Sal Santamaura]

Tell Adobe to take a hike with its software rental scheme. Try this:


https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/photo/

I purchased Serif's predecessor product (PhotoPlus X8) and am completely satisfied with its 16-bit processing capabilities. Affinity is reportedly even close to Photoshop in terms of structure/function.

[Corran]

Just upgrade your copy of Elements if you already know how it works. A quick Google search tells me Elements 14 and later works with Win10. When I used to teach PS classes, we used Elements because the Continuing Ed. area couldn't afford the full Photoshop licenses, and it had 95% of the same features (at least, for photography work and basic to mid-tier editing).

GIMP is fine if you don't mind learning a new software.

[paulbarden]

Drew,
Adobe WILL sell you a non-subscription edition of Lightroom 6, which is what I recommend. It has tools and abilities more suited to the needs of a photographer that Photoshop does not. It would be a good idea to study what Lightroom has to offer to see if its a good fit for your needs before buying a copy. Its quite different from Photoshop CS3. But it has strengths that most photographers appreciate. (Adobe split Photoshop into Photoshop and Lightroom because they saw that designers/illustrators and photographers had distinctly different needs, and one product could not fit both usage scenarios as well as two products with unique traits could)

Adobe has made it difficult to find the standalone desktop version of Lightroom 6 on their web site (they REALLY want people to buy into their pay-monthly plans) but its still there (click) (https://commerce.adobe.com/anyware/checkout/?clientId=adobe_com&countryCode=US&languageCode=en&marketSegment=COM&items%5B0%5D%5BofferId%5D=0A5E0F7A7E9963C2C96ACDB90C734A3F&items%5B0%5D%5Bquantity%5D=1&returnUrl=undefined&promoid=5S7K88VB&mv=other).

[Drew Bedo]

Thanks everyone; all good stuff.

Corran" Up-grading Elements sounds good. I am looking at the main screen for my Elements-5, but do not see any way to do an upgrade. IO will try to click around a bit. Looked on the Adobe website and can't find a way to contact them without a password . . .which I don't have. Whisky-Tango and so on.

[Corran]

From what I could see online, Elements 5 was released some time in 2006. It may be time to pay for a full license of Elements 2018 and call it a day :). Seriously though I have my doubts that they'd give you an upgrade discount.

Also, let me be clear that I really don't like the Creative Cloud platform and refuse to use it (I have CS6). The affiliate link from Google when searching for Elements automatically redirects to a CC purchase page - what a dastardly trick!! I found the link directly to purchase Elements 2018 - which is on "sale" right now for $70:

https://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop-elements.html?promoid=CZY722KB

Don't count on Adobe supporting stand-alone software much longer, even Elements.

[Drew Bedo]

So I tried to contact Adobe on this and they seem to be totally unresponsive. Seems as though no one is at home.

[Ted R]

I'm in a similar situation, being a reluctant computer operator. It seems that for my Windows 7 PC Elements 12 is the most recent compatible software that comes on a disc in a box, I am not interested in "cloud" services. I have just ordered the software NOS and Adobe hardcopy manual both from ebay.com for a combined total of about $70.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

There is another program free and highly capable, but a bit technical Rawtherepee. Although I prefer LR and PS. The cloud subscription isn't bad and allows me to use across platforms and different computers where ever I am at. To me that is a big plus.

[Ben Calwell]

I use Elements 11 to adjust my scanned large format negs, which include 8x10, 5x7 and 4x5 and so far, it's all I need. Then again, I don't have the knowledge base to do anything fancy in Photoshop. About all I do is try to mimic what I would normally do in the wet darkroom.

[Tin Can]

I just pay the $10 a month. Very happy with each improvement.

Adobe should be around for a while...

Adobe is not 'present' as they discuss their new products in the 3rd person as if they are an outside review of corporate BS. Strange and silly to read.

Today I completed an Adobe survey, I think they want to go complete cloud which won't work for me here in Internet wasteland. I have been paid $100's for Adobe Focus groups.

Where is our digital infrastructure?

[rdenney]

I keep seeing more and more push from Adobe to become fully cloud-based. That may be easier for them, but lots of us are in that Internet wasteland and it doesn’t serve that situation even now. I’ve concluded that Adobe products do not represent a sustainable solution for me. I’m still using CS5.1 and will continue to do so until I can’t, but I cannot predict when that will occur. But at that time, I will probably install Affinity’s editing software and learn how to use it.

I am not a Lightroom user, but I need a raw developer with my new inbound camera. I don’t need a data asset manager, which Lightroom seems to force on its users. Capture One purposely won’t support my inbound camera (a Pentax 645z), so On1 Photo Raw is leading the pack at the moment.

Rick “who will be making more and larger digital images” Denney

[Tin Can]

I hate Lightroom! What a mess.

I file with my own system.

Next year a D850 and bigger files!

That said I retreated from a D800 to a D750 which is a 'better' behaving camera.

[Corran]

I don’t need a data asset manager, which Lightroom seems to force on its users.

Hi Rick,

Not to derail the thread, but let me chime in on LR. LR's raw editing is really great, and I use it exclusively for my digital files, with finishing done in PS for heavier editing.

I am a stickler for organization in my digital space. I have my photos grouped by year, date, and separated by raw images and finished sets. I can't stand any software taking that control away from me. In LR, when you import photos, you can select the folder it is stored in and tell it not to move or copy the file to LR's catalog. This is what I do and I never have any issues with it messing with my file structure. The LR catalog that holds the edit data on the files is stored in my User files and I back this up to my server once in a while so I have that available in case of a crash.

So you can definitely use LR w/o any of its cataloging. That said, I only use it with my Nikon DSLRs so I don't know if the RAW editing from Pentax's MF files is mature.

[jp]

Drew; you can try everything Adobe for 30 days and uninstall it if you don't like, or commence monthly billing if it trials well.

I use LR for my nikon dSLR photos sort of like Bryan; I copy my photos from the camera card to computer where I want them, then import them into LR so their non-destructive changes are part of the catalog.

Nikon's software was crashing on me and being slow and buggy, so I dumped it happily for LR a few years ago and it's been a good change. Once upon a time, Nikon had some secret sauce that made their raw software do a nicer job. LR has caught up and it's faster and more reliable. LR and Photoshop current versions are both fast and efficient software.

[Tin Can]

I keep seeing more and more push from Adobe to become fully cloud-based. That may be easier for them, but lots of us are in that Internet wasteland and it doesn’t serve that situation even now. I’ve concluded that Adobe products do not represent a sustainable solution for me. I’m still using CS5.1 and will continue to do so until I can’t, but I cannot predict when that will occur. But at that time, I will probably install Affinity’s editing software and learn how to use it.

I am not a Lightroom user, but I need a raw developer with my new inbound camera. I don’t need a data asset manager, which Lightroom seems to force on its users. Capture One purposely won’t support my inbound camera (a Pentax 645z), so On1 Photo Raw is leading the pack at the moment.

Rick “who will be making more and larger digital images” Denney

RicK, I just looked at your proposed new software. Good it has existed since 2005. But i notice they sell upgrades? Despite Perpetual License. Genuine Fractals® technology! We have been down that path many years ago.

And we need more cash for https://www.on1.com/products/resize/

I hope you follow up with a review. I will wait. :)

[Jim Andrada]

I think the complete Adobe CC package is a great value for the price, but then again I use Photoshop, InDesign, Premiere Pro, Fuse, After Effects, Illustrator, and Acrobat. With the Quite Imposing imposition plug in. A couple of these I use every day, the rest once a week or more.

[rdenney]

RicK, I just looked at your proposed new software. Good it has existed since 2005. But i notice they sell upgrades? Despite Perpetual License. Genuine Fractals[emoji768] technology! We have been down that path many years ago.

And we need more cash for https://www.on1.com/products/resize/

I hope you follow up with a review. I will wait. :)

Nothing’s free if it is maintained. But the Internet is replete with stories of automatic upgrades that broke workflows. A perpetual license means you can upgrade only when you want to. I’m using Photoshop CS5.1, which was released 7 years ago. It still works, so why upgrade? One reason is that the computer is now old, and may need to be replaced at some point, and the old version of PS might not work on it. I want to make sure there is an upgrade path.

I’m an intermittent user, and I upgrade infrequently enough that the rental model is much more expensive. I want to retain control over my own configuration management. I don’t use Office 365 for the same reason, and I use that software even more regularly.

And I have to pay for the bandwidth I use, or suffer slowdowns if I use too much. No wired internet service where I live, and that’s a lot more common than Silicon Valley decision makers realize.

Rick “who has spent the money to build redundancies on site” Denney

[Tin Can]

Does Adobe still allow starting and stopping CC?

I know they used to, you only needed pay the rent when you need it.

A month a year WAS possible.

Of course this required online reset.

[Peter Collins]

I'm learning. A lot of the discussion here is about digital source and PS (or alternatives) processing. I'm a 4x5 film shooter, ONLY B&W, now moved to a much smaller home--a condo, a place w/o hope or space for a darkroom.

I just bought an Epson scanner V800; it's on its way. (Thanks to Pere Casals for the recommendation.)

What should I get? PS, Affinity, GIMP, ON1???? I just want (1) 16-bit processing, (2) ability to adjust gray scale, (3) ability to repair negative boo-boos like scratches and dust marks. (4) Ultimately, the ability to manipulate Piezography inks. (Also, I'm not afraid of the cloud, but might like to avoid Adobe's.)

Fellow film freaks, chime in! :o

[Steven Ruttenberg]

I don't store anything on the cloud, all local. So I don't have bandwidth issues. For me, the db functionality of LR is what I need. I control what folders are where and what my directory structure looks like. I have 8 2 TB drives external to my Mac from MacGurus. I work off of drive 2, (I chose 2 so that when I back up my operating system, I replace drive 1 with the backup drive for OS and also use it if need to boot from backup. The OS backup is completely separate from my photo drives) I back up drive 2 to each of the 7 drives every night. I have had to many drives crap on me to not have 8 drives with identical information. Which reminds me, one of my internal drives went t*ts up, gotta replace it.

[Tin Can]

I back up to the Cloud. Why not? I got tired of doing what you are doing. It's expensive too.

You still use Mac...

Digital is ephemeral. No arguing it's not.

I have nearly every negative I and family shot since 1964 when I was 13. Many scanned. I do the funeral books which are now online...

I am considering going to iPhone Verizon Data only, no WIFI, no DSL. I do prefer an iPhone.

I use a secondary supplier of Verizon Data which is cheaper than Verizon!



I don't store anything on the cloud, all local. So I don't have bandwidth issues. For me, the db functionality of LR is what I need. I control what folders are where and what my directory structure looks like. I have 8 2 TB drives external to my Mac from MacGurus. I work off of drive 2, (I chose 2 so that when I back up my operating system, I replace drive 1 with the backup drive for OS and also use it if need to boot from backup. The OS backup is completely separate from my photo drives) I back up drive 2 to each of the 7 drives every night. I have had to many drives crap on me to not have 8 drives with identical information. Which reminds me, one of my internal drives went t*ts up, gotta replace it.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

I back up to the Cloud. Why not? I got tired of doing what you are doing. It's expensive too.

You still use Mac...

Digital is ephemeral. No arguing it's not.

I have nearly every negative I and family shot since 1964 when I was 13. Many scanned. I do the funeral books which are now online...

I am considering going to iPhone Verizon Data only, no WIFI, no DSL. I do prefer an iPhone.

I use a secondary supplier of Verizon Data which is cheaper than Verizon!

The cloud is slow and not secure. I do not want my anything out there fore the world to hack. It is hard enough to keep it secure on my own system, no way I trust some 3rd world vendor to maintain my data for me. Plus, it is way slow. I have a gigabyte connection to the outside world and even with that, to back up 2gb of data which will become 4 then 8 then 16 would be like weeks or months to get it all on there. and then I am subject trusting them to maintain and always make available. I believe in being isolated from the web as much as possible except where I have no choice. Not being connected for me is better than being connected and dependent upon it for my work/etc.

Not really more expensive, since my costs are fixed until I need a larger set of drives, then a 1 time cost that will last several years before needing to be expanded again. What I should do is have an offsite storage facility, in case of fire or theft or worse. And I started that once and just for 1gb of data, it was going to take like 3 or 4weeks to upload it all, not good. Will need to explore further I suppose, but I do not like having my anything out there in the world for anyone to hack/steal. Something I learned in the Marines and from being a Sheriff's Deputy. Trust no one, nothing. The only people I trust were/are my Marines and my wife. Everyone else, nope.

Yep, using Mac. Used to use pc exclusively, even built a couple, they worked okay, but have to many quirks, more vulnerable to viruses and in general now feel clunky ever since they went away from Windows XP. My Mac is a bit quirky too, but overall, it is perfect for my photography and it also integrates well with my ipad pro and iphone. If I want windows world, I use one of the programs that runs windows on the Mac (not an emulator) so, if I want I can have windows. My current laptop though is a surface pro 4 and the screen leaves a lot to be desired, flickers, etc. My next laptop will be a Macbook pro loaded up so I can travel light/er.

I have several thousand negatives to go thru and scan, plus all the old prints and super 8 movies from my dad/mom/grandparents and my wife and her parents etc. I will be scanning for a century! :)

[jp]

Part of my business's work is computer maintenance.. Yesterday we had a macbook pro in the shop that had 151 virus infections. It's outdated thinking to consider Mac less prone to viruses these days.

Steven, if you've got all those drives, perhaps store some elsewhere, rotating a few off site even if they don't get backed up as often. I have the luxury of a detached garage at my place. I store backups (over a lan) to the garage. Fire or flood or theft, my data should be safe...

If I were using a cell phone and cloud backup, a five minute movie clip from my DSLR's SD card would use up my whole data allowance. For an average person, the cloud will be more reliable for most functions as they are not intentional about doing those services privately in a reliable and secure manner.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Part of my business's work is computer maintenance.. Yesterday we had a macbook pro in the shop that had 151 virus infections. It's outdated thinking to consider Mac less prone to viruses these days.

Steven, if you've got all those drives, perhaps store some elsewhere, rotating a few off site even if they don't get backed up as often. I have the luxury of a detached garage at my place. I store backups (over a lan) to the garage. Fire or flood or theft, my data should be safe...

If I were using a cell phone and cloud backup, a five minute movie clip from my DSLR's SD card would use up my whole data allowance. For an average person, the cloud will be more reliable for most functions as they are not intentional about doing those services privately in a reliable and secure manner.

Yeah, your right on the virus thing, been lucky so far, but I bet I have 1 or 2 there I don't know about. I wanted to set up something like backing up to a separate drive outside of the house, like something stored in a fireproof safe since I don't have a detached garage. How would I go about setting up a separate remote disk storage I could back up too. I am good, but not all that good. Just needs to be reliable so I don't have to monkey with it all the time.

I could get a safe deposit box or just put them in a fire proof safe, if I don't have them backing up remotely.

[rdenney]

I back up daily to a server on my home network running Unraid. It has 13 TB of storage (which I could easily increase to 20). It is not RAID, but it spans folders across the drives, and maintains a parity disk. If you lose one drive, it will rebuild its replacement. If you lose two at one time (highly unlikely), you only lose what’s on those drives so it’s not a total loss. But since it’s a backup system, you have to lose three at one time—two in the Unraid server and the primary disk in the computer being backed up. I’m using Macrium Reflect to manage the backups. I’ve already had to replace two drives in the backup system and one in a workstation with no data loss and minimal downtime.

To back up against the house burning down, a couple of external 4TB drives can be rotated out of the safety deposit box at the bank. But then even my negatives are not protected from that.

I use a cellular connection to the internet, with an “unlimited” data plan. But it’s slow and spotty. I have an even slower terrestrial microwave backup, using an automatic failover router. There is now way I can consider an online backup, even if I didn’t mind all my stuff being on the cloud.

Randy, when I get a chance to sit down and work on photos, I don’t want to have to spend the first chunk of that time turning on a subscription so I can do so. There is a use case for locally stored and configuration-managed software, leading to requirements Adobe no longer fulfills.

Rick “accustomed to dealing with complex system architecture” Denney

[Tin Can]

My use case is changing. Basically, after 21 years of computer and Internet usage, I have become disenchanted.

Only yesterday the IRS could not accept online payment. Our digital infrastructure is insufficient on a worldwide, national, local and personal basis. I don't envision improvement in my lifetime.

Net War is the reality. I have long suspected airplane crashes, mysterious training accidents, and computers full of things we did not put there.

For my own peace of mind, I am closing down Net access to me. A quiet retirement using film and wet printing is a goal. Slow food. Slow imaging. Sit on the veranda.

Even our cars track our every move. I have always been paranoid and now I know why I was not wrong. Stingrays will be getting better and I don't mean fish.

THEM

[jp]

Randy, it's wise to be paranoid... It will be a battleground. It already has been, behind the scenes.
My choice is to be wise about it's misuse at the same time take advantage of it's abilities for my own use. Our digital infrastructure has never been sufficient yet it has thrived.

[bob carnie]

Randy, it's wise to be paranoid... It will be a battleground. It already has been, behind the scenes.
My choice is to be wise about it's misuse at the same time take advantage of it's abilities for my own use. Our digital infrastructure has never been sufficient yet it has thrived.

I lost my internet for three days, this week due to the storm.. not only was I out of sorts, there were implications financially and my ability to work was greatly impacted. There was a prosperous time 90's that I did not use this technology and after this last week I am beginning to think a bit like Randy Moe.

Though I pride myself on my ability to keep on wanting to learn and PS , Lightroom and Capture One are important to my day to day, the other issues with the internet are making me re think my retirement years that are coming at me. Do I still want to be in the rat race, if so how do I simply reduce my relieance/need on the network put out there by the financial institutions , and my ability to talk with people like you .

[consummate_fritterer]

My use case is changing. Basically, after 21 years of computer and Internet usage, I have become disenchanted.

Only yesterday the IRS could not accept online payment. Our digital infrastructure is insufficient on a worldwide, national, local and personal basis. I don't envision improvement in my lifetime.

Net War is the reality. I have long suspected airplane crashes, mysterious training accidents, and computers full of things we did not put there.

For my own peace of mind, I am closing down Net access to me. A quiet retirement using film and wet printing is a goal. Slow food. Slow imaging. Sit on the veranda.

Even our cars track our every move. I have always been paranoid and now I know why I was not wrong. Stingrays will be getting better and I don't mean fish.

THEM

Since we're sideways anyway... :D

It won't be cyber attacks that kill high-tech. It will be a massive EMP from a solar flare and/or global economic collapse.

[Corran]

I’ve already had to replace two drives in the backup system and one in a workstation with no data loss and minimal downtime.

Rick,

Of course your Unraid system is doing its job, with the drive failure and corresponding backup. However, I thought I'd ask what drives you were using...

I built my Unraid server a few years ago now, and recently upgraded my Parity drive to a 4TB model. I have 6 2TB drives now in there. I only use Western Digital RED drives, and have had no failures. I also do a thorough preclear of the drives before installing to check for errors.

What version of Unraid are you using? The newest version (6) supports SMART drive monitoring. I have been super pleased with Unraid, and it works great. It took some tinkering to upgrade and migrate my data onto Unraid 6 (I was on 4 until this year) but the web interface is way better, and it automatically preclears now w/o having to run a script. I plan on buying 4TB drives here or there to upgrade my 2TB drives and refresh them, and then drop the 2TB drives into the bottom of the array to keep building it up. I need to get a new case though because currently my case is slammed full - the new parity drive is not even really in a proper HD bay. My server is 12TB total - I needed the new parity disk because I was at capacity.

[Tin Can]

Rick,

Of course your Unraid system is doing its job, with the drive failure and corresponding backup. However, I thought I'd ask what drives you were using...

I built my Unraid server a few years ago now, and recently upgraded my Parity drive to a 4TB model. I have 6 2TB drives now in there. I only use Western Digital RED drives, and have had no failures. I also do a thorough preclear of the drives before installing to check for errors.

What version of Unraid are you using? The newest version (6) supports SMART drive monitoring. I have been super pleased with Unraid, and it works great. It took some tinkering to upgrade and migrate my data onto Unraid 6 (I was on 4 until this year) but the web interface is way better, and it automatically preclears now w/o having to run a script. I plan on buying 4TB drives here or there to upgrade my 2TB drives and refresh them, and then drop the 2TB drives into the bottom of the array to keep building it up. I need to get a new case though because currently my case is slammed full - the new parity drive is not even really in a proper HD bay. My server is 12TB total - I needed the new parity disk because I was at capacity.

Bryon, I actually understand all that tech. You are far younger than I and you will have to power through the problems. No choice for the young.

I'm relaxing. I beleive a mind/brain/universe can only do a finite set of calculations. I'm using what's left for what's important to me.

[Corran]

I grew up learning DOS commands and programming in BASIC while still in elementary school (not as curricula, but on my own). I am lucky to have had such an experience, before "smart devices" and everything else. You are probably more computer literate than the youngest generation, because they didn't have to know any of that gobbledygook. Last week I bricked my computer when an errant piece of software installed a .sys file it shouldn't have. I fixed it by going into the command prompt in the recovery environment and using those erstwhile DOS commands to dig around and delete the problem file. I'm glad I know how. Meanwhile, my last batch of students had a lot of trouble figuring out how to burn a CD (huh? people still use those?).

[Tin Can]

I grew up learning DOS commands and programming in BASIC while still in elementary school (not as curricula, but on my own). I am lucky to have had such an experience, before "smart devices" and everything else. You are probably more computer literate than the youngest generation, because they didn't have to know any of that gobbledygook. Last week I bricked my computer when an errant piece of software installed a .sys file it shouldn't have. I fixed it by going into the command prompt in the recovery environment and using those erstwhile DOS commands to dig around and delete the problem file. I'm glad I know how. Meanwhile, my last batch of students had a lot of trouble figuring out how to burn a CD (huh? people still use those?).

I have noticed the native Internet generation, now 21, are not very adept on the whole.

We need more STEAM. Rather my grandchildren will. My generation got only STEM.

[faberryman]

And I have to pay for the bandwidth I use, or suffer slowdowns if I use too much. No wired internet service where I live, and that’s a lot more common than Silicon Valley decision makers realize.
PS/LR CC does not require bandwidth. It works offline. Every couple of months you have to log in to confirm that your paid subscription is current. Otherwise, no internet connection required.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

A science fiction remake of Battlestar Galactica reveals why we should all be isolated from the externally plugged in world. I don't remember the episode, but it is where Adam and explains why his was the only ship to survive the attack. He would not allow any computer on the ship to be connected to any other computer nor to the outside world. All communications inside ship were analog like the old ship phones from WWI and WWI. Any incoming or outgoing message was scrubbed before being allowed into any computer.

If the US govt did this our secrets would be much harder to steal.

I think I will be an external server in a fireproof enclosure and back up there. Basically double my storage capacity and number of individual and separate backups. I have had 1, 2 and 3 failures at once or in succession, but never 4, let alone 8 or 16. I will get a second 8 bay burley from MacGurus (can use for pc too) and set it up. My house is pre-war red with cat5 (should have got cat6) so I can have a hard connection at a gigabit speed. Of system drives will limit this speed. It will also be isolated from outside world. In fact I may isolate my whole system and use a laptop for my internet use. Keep absolutely nothing on it of import whatsoever. And only connect the machine up to do an upgrade. Keep that machine completely devoid of any PII information, etc. In other words do my taxes offline store information on server in fireproof cabinet with no internet connection, scrub main device if this info before I hook it up to internet for an update for PS as an example.

The last couple years should be a wakeup call on the use of cloud and internet willy nilly.

Paranoid no, cautious yes. Trust big brother, nope.

[Jac@stafford.net]

[... snip ..]
If the US govt did this our secrets would be much harder to steal.

I think I will be an external server in a fireproof enclosure and back up there.

Computers with no network connection, so-called air-gaped systems are snooped in real-time from a distance. Seriously. It's about unstructured RF. Your home grown setup is trivial to defeat. Never underestimate the NSA.
.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

I don't use wireless at home for anything. All wired. Even going to get an old school house phone from the 1800's. In the end, the gov't can get anything they want from us, but why make it easier for them to steal.

You can't snoop what isn't transmitting. That takes someone to get inside and plant a device to do what you can't. Like planting a virus in person. :)

[Jac@stafford.net]

You can't snoop what isn't transmitting.

Everything electric transmits, and computers have well-known readable frequencies. Even your keyboard has its own signature. Get hip to it. Being smug is not going to obviate reality. Oh, that old phone is a signal blaster, too easy to bust for any amateur.

To see just the least secret Google NSA Tempest. That's only for starters. Dig deeper.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Not being smug, but it isn't as easy as just pointing a device at the wall and reading my files on the computer. When I was in the Marines, there were countless ways we could snoop on the enemy. When I was in military school for my mos we used to listen into cell phone conversations in real time using a spectrum analyzer. An old phone that uses copper wire is unsecured, but it takes a different technology to get your info. And if they do, well, that is another ball game.

I know there are many ways to get what you want regardless of what we do to protect ourselves. But why make it easier for someone to get your info. I know people who live off the grid and it really bothers the law enforcement because they just can't get a warrant for your cell phone records or txts, why? They don't have any. Plus being off the grid they are independent of any power failure, etc, so they are not controlled.

In the end, make it harder not easier and sometimes using older technology is making it harder. I'm pretty sure my hard drive disk is not transmitting rf concerning which photo I am looking at or what book I am reading.

The article points to the shielding I mentioned and being sure your system is isolated. The idea is not connected to internet wired or unwired, avoid cell phone use except for conversations and such that cannot compromise you in any way. The old phone can even be shielded and if they want to hear you communications they will find a way.

But again, why make it easy for those who would want to steal our info or spy on us.

[Peter Collins]

This thread has wandered. I'm going to try again, and start a new thread. Thanks,

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Lol. Sorry.

[Drew Bedo]

I use heavy-duty commercial kitchen grade Aluminum foil for my bed-time helmet.

Way off the OP. Thanks Peter.