Exposing Fuji Provia 100

[Steven Ruttenberg]

I have found, that if it is underexposed too much, it scans terribly. Looks okay on a light table, but it does not scan so well. Which also throws the scanner focus out (I have calibrated my scanner a V850). When the slide/neg is exposed more or less properly, they scan well with good detail.

Any rules of thumb for adjusting exposure from what is metered? I am guessing at least two stops brighter if the scene is strongly back lit or very dim to start.

[Mark Darragh]

Hello Steven,
How are you metering and establishing your exposures with Provia?


Experience and testing has taught me that if using a spot read from an 18% grey card or mid-tone area, I give 1 stop more exposure than indicated by my Sekonic spot meter. In practice this means I set the meter for Provia at 50 EI, assuming I’m looking for mid tone readings. When shooting with Provia, I work on the basis of 4 ½ to 5 stops of usable dynamic range. I don't expect to hold any detail much more than 2 - 2 1/2 stops either side of the mid-tone. Transparency films don't give you much latitude for under/over exposure.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

I have been exposing on the dark area of scene I want detail in and then adjust it to be in zone 3 or 4. Perhaps I should adjust to put it into 6 or 7. I spot metered so this should give me zone 5 exposure, unless I am missing something.

[Pere Casals]

I have found, that if it is underexposed too much, it scans terribly.

Use multi-exposure, and you'll get a way better scan.



Any rules of thumb for adjusting exposure from what is metered?

Take a roll in a Nikon F80, 65 or similar. Use spot meter, take representative scenes, make a bracketing for each scene, say -3, -1.5, 0, +1.5, +3, for the "0" image anotate the reading with the spot meteri the interesting areas: clous, blue sky, water, glares, shadows....

Compare the readings from the F80 to the meter you will use for sheets.

Develop the test roll and memorize well, how sky looks in each exposure level, for example if it was at +1 in the "0 image" it would be at the +4 overexposure in the +3 bracketed image.

If you don't have an spot meter you can use a lightweight F65 with the 50mm 1.8 to spot meter, this is a good spot meter, reember the exposure compensation...

IMHO Velvia/Provia require good spot metering, slide sheets are not a joke, and exposure has to be nailed, so it's good to use spot meter to know how how every area will end.

The test with a roll and bracketings is important because each color has different sensitivity in the meter and in the film, so a practical knowledge on how a blue sky should be exposed is very important, also for people's skin with provia...

Then you will realize when you need a NG filter, etc...

With that exercise you will expose slides perfectly, with very good prediction about what you will get.

[Steven Ruttenberg]

Use multi-exposure, and you'll get a way better scan.




Take a roll in a Nikon F80, 65 or similar. Use spot meter, take representative scenes, make a bracketing for each scene, say -3, -1.5, 0, +1.5, +3, for the "0" image anotate the reading with the spot meteri the interesting areas: clous, blue sky, water, glares, shadows....

Compare the readings from the F80 to the meter you will use for sheets.

Develop the test roll and memorize well, how sky looks in each exposure level, for example if it was at +1 in the "0 image" it would be at the +4 overexposure in the +3 bracketed image.

If you don't have an spot meter you can use a lightweight F65 with the 50mm 1.8 to spot meter, this is a good spot meter, reember the exposure compensation...

IMHO Velvia/Provia require good spot metering, slide sheets are not a joke, and exposure has to be nailed, so it's good to use spot meter to know how how every area will end.

The test with a roll and bracketings is important because each color has different sensitivity in the meter and in the film, so a practical knowledge on how a blue sky should be exposed is very important, also for people's skin with provia...

Then you will realize when you need a NG filter, etc...

With that exercise you will expose slides perfectly, with very good prediction about what you will get.

I would have to rent a film camera for this exercise my Canon 1NRS was sold a long time ago. I do have a spot meter
Seikonic.

Sounds like a fun exercise

[Pere Casals]

I would have to rent a film camera for this exercise my Canon 1NRS was sold a long time ago. I do have a spot meter
Seikonic.

Sounds like a fun exercise

Steven, get an F65, cheaper than rented, this is $25, or an equivalent canon. Using a lightweight SLR has the advantage that you can also bracket the LF shot in 35mm, so you would learn if you could do it better that time and why, also some shots may not deserve a sheet but it would be interesting to learn.

IMHO it can recommended to learn velvia/provia with an SLR, you can test a lot of scenes without hauling the LF gear, you can take a lot of test shots and you can do bracketing cheap.

Forget LF for the moment, just shot 2 or 3 rolls, with well selected scenes, it's the fastest and cheapest way, and you'll refine your skills in metering for provia/velvia to the point you will predict the result very well. See if in the 3rd roll you have predicted well the result, then you are ready to expose sheets with the confidence you are not to waste the effort.

[Mike Lewis]

I agree with the above advice-- practice with a 35mm camera, a spot meter, and a gray card, until you get the hang of it. I've shot a lot of Provia with a view camera, using a spot meter and gray card, and I almost never flub an exposure. When I do it's usually by misreading the meter, e.g. seeing "2" and thinking that means "two seconds" instead of "one half second". Duh. I've been able to scan Provia pretty reliably as well using film scanners (for small and medium format), flat bed, and drum scanners. It's a good film.

[Pfsor]

... It's a good film.

I agree. You can learn how to expose it even without 35mm roll tests. Once you know how it reacts, you can forget about metering and just, well, meter the scene. That film is like an obedient horse - goes to the left when you need it, to the right when you like it, even straight ahead when you want it.
On the contrary, the worst thing is to ask others, how they "adjust" their metered results. What the heck you care about others' spot meter and their metering? Do you meter with their exposure meters? Your question is just adding another variable to your own metering! Do some bracketing on your scene and soon you will get the feel for your exposure meter and your exposure metering. That's all that matters.

[Bernice Loui]

Spot meters readings results in 18% gray density on film. This means if a spot meter reading was taken on a sheet of white paper, that white paper will produce 18% gray on processed film image.

-Key to remember, readings using spot meter is relative to 18% gray density on processed film.


Color transparency film needs to have a exposure range of no more than plus or minus 1/2 f-stop, for reasonable results.

Spot meter can be very good at measuring and gauging the overall brightness range of a given scene, then allowing the image maker to decide how to fit that brightness range on to film and how that brightness range will be rendered in the processed film image. It becomes a tradeoff between the brightness range possible on film -vs- the brightness range at the scene to be imaged.

Grass green can serve as a 18% gray card substitute when a 18% gray card cannot be used. Keep in mind color will have an effect on spot meter readings.

A very reasonable alternative to using a spot meter is to used an incident light meter which is calibrated to measure the amount of light arriving at the given scene to be imaged on film to render 18% gray density on processed film.

For the 35mm film camera trial. It maybe far better to use a fully manual 35mm camera treating it no different than a sheet film camera using a spot meter or incident meter for metering scenes to be imaged. It is crucial to keep track of each exposure per 35mm frame number as this is the information that will allow the desired results.

Fancy Dancy modern 35mm cameras like the Canon 1n and such have very good metering systems and are remarkably consistent. During the film era, used a Canon F1n-AE for 35mm color transparency film. Many thousands of 35mm color transparency film was run in and out of two Canon F1n-AEs, exposure consistency was excellent with very few if any poorly exposed fames of 35mm film. The 35mm camera did most of the exposure calculations on the fly with little need for image maker intervention. In the case of a view camera, it is manual in most every way relying on the image maker to do make the calculations and decisions on how the film will be exposed and what the exposed film results will be.


Bernice

[Pere Casals]

Spot meters readings results in 18% gray density on film. This means if a spot meter reading was taken on a sheet of white paper, that white paper will produce 18% gray on processed film image.

Well, if taking the spot reading in a paper (say colourless) it will always deliver the same desity, if the paper is white, gray or black, always the same. If it is black the meter will recommend a very long exposure...

[Steven Ruttenberg]

I agree. You can learn how to expose it even without 35mm roll tests. Once you know how it reacts, you can forget about metering and just, well, meter the scene. That film is like an obedient horse - goes to the left when you need it, to the right when you like it, even straight ahead when you want it.
On the contrary, the worst thing is to ask others, how they "adjust" their metered results. What the heck you care about others' spot meter and their metering? Do you meter with their exposure meters? Your question is just adding another variable to your own metering! Do some bracketing on your scene and soon you will get the feel for your exposure meter and your exposure metering. That's all that matters.

I only care in as much as those with experience, can often times shorten the process by not reinventing the wheel. I do agree that in the end it is my decision on how to expose, but like anything knowing how your tool works/responds gives you the information to make informed decisions.

[Havoc]

I regulary shoot Provia in 6x4.5 and almost always use incident metering. It very seldom fails.

[Pere Casals]

I regulary shoot Provia in 6x4.5 and almost always use incident metering. It very seldom fails.

This never fails if subject is uniformly illuminated, but if you have sky in the scene and it is 4 stops over your subject it will fail for sure. Some landscape Velvia/Provia shots will require metering well sky/clouds/terrain and using the proper graded ND.

Incident metering may work very nice, but one must know when it won't do it well, or how to correct the reading in high DR scenes...

[Drew Wiley]

Why all the complication? It's all just about proper metering skills. I shot Provia for two decades and NEVER bracketed - can't afford to with 8X10 film! I don't
even own any ND grads. But I never botched an exposure; and outdoor terrain is my cup of tea. Yes, I use a spotmeter; but I never botched Kodachromes either back when I only owned an early Pentax with an external CDS averaging meter. Its all a matter of familiarity with your chosen meter. Practice with
less expensive roll film until it becomes instinctive, and remember that meters periodically need recalibration, about once a decade with mine.

[Bernice Loui]

+1000...

Back in the day, if the image maker cannot nail the exposure on color transparency film in one sheet, that image maker is not qualified to be exposing large sheets of color transparency film. As previously mentioned, cost per processed sheet of 8x10 color transparency film was about $20 per sheet. At this expense, there is NO margin for bracketing or experimenting, exposure is correct on that single sheet of film.

To achieve this means exposing a lot of color transparency film in smaller formats with fully manual metering until metering and exposure skills have been learned and mastered enough to assure one exposure results in one finished print.


That is the way it once was.

Bernice



Why all the complication? It's all just about proper metering skills. I shot Provia for two decades and NEVER bracketed - can't afford to with 8X10 film! I don't
even own any ND grads. But I never botched an exposure; and outdoor terrain is my cup of tea. Yes, I use a spotmeter; but I never botched Kodachromes either back when I only owned an early Pentax with an external CDS averaging meter. Its all a matter of familiarity with your chosen meter. Practice with
less expensive roll film until it becomes instinctive, and remember that meters periodically need recalibration, about once a decade with mine.

[Pere Casals]

Why all the complication? It's all just about proper metering skills. I shot Provia for two decades and NEVER bracketed - can't afford to with 8X10 film! I don't
even own any ND grads. But I never botched an exposure; and outdoor terrain is my cup of tea. Yes, I use a spotmeter; but I never botched Kodachromes either back when I only owned an early Pentax with an external CDS averaging meter. Its all a matter of familiarity with your chosen meter. Practice with
less expensive roll film until it becomes instinctive, and remember that meters periodically need recalibration, about once a decade with mine.

Drew, if you read well the posts bracketing is recommended for a test roll, to learn how sky/clouds/etc looks at +1, +2, +3, so one can acquire a criterion to predict well the result, and not having to use bracketing with sheets.

[Drew Wiley]

Thank you, Pere. Yes, I do that too when first testing any new film.