Polarizer for 150mm SS XL with CF

[pchaplo]

I need a polarizer (and some black and white filters eg yellow, orange) that are compatible with the IVa center filter that I always use on my Schneider Super-Symmar 150mm f/5.6 XL, and my 90/5.6 SA XL.

According to BHphoto, here are the 4a CF specs:

This filter has a front accessory thread of 112mm and uses a 115mm push-on lens cap (SCLC115).

Let's start with the polarizing filter -- how can I find a filter this large -- and will a threaded one vignette with extreme moves? I use mostly extreme rise for architecture.

Is a glass polarizer less likely to scratch than a "plastic/acrylic" version? I am thinking that all I need in a linear polarizer, not circular.

For the filter holder, the CF is quite thin -- how can I attach it.

ps: I prefer to filters at my front lens element (not rear).

Paul

[Bernice Loui]

112mm thread on filters is a standard size. They are available, just add $.

Once past 122mm, then inquire with the Cinema equipment folks. Some Cinema lenses have 165mm front elements with a matching matt box to boot.


Bernice

[Doremus Scudder]

What Bernice said, except I'd add a couple more dollar signs $$$ :)

I'm not exactly sure which center filter you have, but I'd guess the 82mm/112mm CF. The reason the front filter threads are larger than the rear is to prevent vignetting when using another filter. If you stack more filters than one on top of the CF (e.g., polarizer plus yellow, etc.), you might vignette when using extreme movements. It's easy to check by looking back through the lens at the taking aperture and making sure all four corners of the ground glass are visible.

Unless you have a fancy through-the-lens meter or auto-focus, there's no need for a circular polarizer.

Do check out the old-favorite auction site for used possibilities. All of my filters were purchased used and in great condition. I have an assortment of B+W, Heliopan, Nikkor, Tiffen and a couple Hoya HMC. Go for coated filters if you can find them. I like the brass rings on the B+W and Heliopan filters too. Tiffen filters offer many filters that are unavailable from other companies. They are uncoated and have aluminum rings but are otherwise good quality.

Best,

Doremus

[pchaplo]

Thanks!
112mm thread on filters is a standard size. They are available, just add $.

Once past 122mm, then inquire with the Cinema equipment folks. Some Cinema lenses have 165mm front elements with a matching matt box to boot.


Bernice

[pchaplo]

Yes the CF is 112mm. I appreciate the info on vignetting!

[hiend61]

The first solution would be a Sinar filter holder 125-2 with a 112 mm adapter ring plus a Sinar polar filter 125. This filter system was discontinued long ago, but is available second hand in the famous auction site. The problem is to find BW filters (Yellow, orange and red ones) hard to find. This system can potentialy vignete if you use the lens image circle to the limits. I have a 90 SK 90 XL, but I have not the dedicated Center Filter IV B, so I can´t be sure about vigneting when center filter is used.

The second one is a system made by Linhof Studio in England that is based on Lee Filters 150 system. This English shop sells online a special filter holder with adapters for large diameter lenses. This system has plenty of filters for BW.

You can also find a 112-145 steep up ring in the auction site and purchase a 145mm Wonderpana polarizing filter. This system made by Fotodiox has no filters for BW photography, but you can adapt filters from Formmat Hitech or Lucroit.

[hiend61]

About the polarizer. You just need a linear one, but a circular one can do the job. Linear polarizers have a just a bit stronger efect.
Sinar 125 polarizer is made of glass. The rest of 125 sinar filters are made of resin.

The Wonderpana polarizer is also made of glass, I have never seen a resin made polarizer for use on a lens. (I have large polarizing sheets made of gelatine for use on flash heads )

[Eric Leppanen]

Here's an older thread with some additional ideas:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?39322-Need-filter-holder-solution-for-Schneider-150mm-SSXL

A more recent option is the Lee SW150 filter system.

[Ari]

Haida, Nisi, Vu, Breakthrough, lots of filter options to choose from these days.
The newer Chinese brands are all using the Schott glass formula, and making excellent filters.
You could get a universal 150mm filter holder and a 150mm x 150mm polarizer for under $300 from many of these companies.

[Bernice Loui]

Sight side track. the 150mm SS XL is just a really nice lens.


Bernice

[pchaplo]

Thanks to all who contributed. Pardon my late reply as I’ve been on assignment. I am used to the usual round Polarizers where you rotate the top element. With a square polarizer, how does one control the intensity of the polarization? I am deciding between large-square style filter and a 112mm round B+W.

In looking at my lens arsenal, I am happy not only that a 112mm polarizer will fit BOTH my 150mm SS XL and my 90mm SA XL (with shared Schneider CF), but also that my Nikkor 300M came with a Heliopan polarizer.

[minh0204]

You need a holder that can rotate the filter. Lee's 150 system can fit. Perhaps Joe Cornish can explain it better:

https://youtu.be/OHsZVjfaW8I?t=7m30s

[Eric Woodbury]

I don't know what you photograph, but if it includes open sky, you will find that the sky's polarization changes dramatically with angle from the sun. This with a polarizer will give a great variable sky tonality. I have a 4" polarizer from Calumet, but would never use it with my 72mm on 5x7.

That said, you may not need as large a diameter polarizer as you think. As you stop down on the lens, you are using less and less of the diameter of the lens. That extra diameter is there for that fastest f/number and ease of focusing. Chances are you stop down for your exposures and much of the diameter of filters that 'match' your lens goes unused.

YMMV.

Happy snapping.

[pchaplo]

Minh, Thanks for the video link, I appreciate that.

Eric, Good point and yes, the “variable tonality” (well said!) is exactly what I want. I photograph architecture and engineering project (HABS/HAER). Control of sky tones is my main goal. Also I want to reduce reflections on some materials.

Paul


I don't know what you photograph, but if it includes open sky, you will find that the sky's polarization changes dramatically with angle from the sun. This with a polarizer will give a great variable sky tonality. I have a 4" polarizer from Calumet, but would never use it with my 72mm on 5x7.

That said, you may not need as large a diameter polarizer as you think. As you stop down on the lens, you are using less and less of the diameter of the lens. That extra diameter is there for that fastest f/number and ease of focusing. Chances are you stop down for your exposures and much of the diameter of filters that 'match' your lens goes unused.

YMMV.

Happy snapping.

[Bob Salomon]

Minh, Thanks for the video link, I appreciate that.

Eric, Good point and yes, the “variable tonality” (well said!) is exactly what I want. I photograph architecture and engineering project (HABS/HAER). Control of sky tones is my main goal. Also I want to reduce reflections on some materials.

Paul

Maybe I can rephrase what Eric said.
Parts of the sky are naturally polarized and other parts aren’t. When you are using a wide or very wide lens with a polarizer and the scene includes wide sections of sky you will get banding in the sky which can be very displeasing!

[pchaplo]

Bob,

Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying that point on variable tonality. I see what you mean.

[pchaplo]

I'm tending towards the B+W 112mm C-POL MRC filter. This one has threaded front ring (for stacking filters, which I never do). I wish I could find a "slim" version is that diameter. I photograph architecture and just need more separation of roofs with sky. My work is all black and white, yet I would prefer to start with a polarizer for also reducing reflections. I dont see the banding issue as being significant problem in my type of work. I do like that with a polarizer, I can "dial in" the amount of polarization effect. The B+W claims "high transmission" and filter factor of only 1 stop -to- 1.5 stops, which wont slow my shutter-speed down too much. I like the latter; its a benefit to my outdoor work in the Texas wind.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1141462-REG/b_w_1081907_112mm_mc_kaesemann_htc.html

Since the 112mm polarizer will work on my 2 workhorse lenses - 150mm SS XL and 90 SA XL - which also share same CF (and my 300M came with a nice Heliopan pol!), therefore I think that interchange-ability is less of an issue for me than some other users.

If I need to do an extreme front rise, I can check on gg and remove filter if it vignettes -- realistically such a shot is 1% of my work. And as Eric noted:

That extra diameter is there for that fastest f/number and ease of focusing. Chances are you stop down for your exposures and much of the diameter of filters that 'match' your lens goes unused.

[Eric Leppanen]

I vaguely recall that SK Grimes used to custom make large polarizing filters, but they are no longer on their products list.

Haida lists a 112mm slim polarizer (HD1212), please ref page 11 of this PDF. I know nothing of this product otherwise....

https://www.haida-filters.be/Images/Haida_Product_Collectie_2016_2017.pdf

[Doremus Scudder]

Maybe I can rephrase what Eric said.
Parts of the sky are naturally polarized and other parts aren’t. When you are using a wide or very wide lens with a polarizer and the scene includes wide sections of sky you will get banding in the sky which can be very displeasing!

Or, you can use it to your advantage:

177576

This was made on 4x5 film with a 90mm lens and a polarizer at an angle to the sky so that the left was darkened, but the right not.

Best,

Doremus

[pchaplo]

Doremus,

That is creative — a grad that mostly affects the sky! Which polarizer do you use?

[Eric Woodbury]

He used the one that naturally comes with the sky. Polarization of the sky is quite dramatic relative to the angle to the sun. This is why use of polarizers for wide-angles is uncommon. At higher altitudes, it gets worse.

[Doremus Scudder]

Doremus,

That is creative — a grad that mostly affects the sky! Which polarizer do you use?

Not a graduated filter (I hate those :) ) Eric has it right; it was just a normal linear polarizer. With the wider field of view from the 90mm, the polarized part of the sky was darkened but not the other.

Best,

Doremus

[pchaplo]

Domerus, thats what I thought - a polarizer with the sky making it act like a grad with the variation across the sweep of the sky. Nice shot! Also, with wide angle (I shoot alot with SA 90/5.6 XL), I just love the way the sky color darkens naturally, even with a CF.