PDA

View Full Version : Lens to produce vignetted images on 4x5



Steve Williams_812
31-Mar-2018, 18:33
I'm looking to find a lens to use on my 4x5 zone vi camera that will produce a vignetted image on 4x5 film -- severe enough to show part or all of the circle. I used to produce this effect when shooting 8x10 with a 125mm Fujinon lens. No luck so far finding something for 4x5.

I'm thinking I need something that produces and image circle of no more than 120mm. But that lens can me so short that I won't be able to get it close enough to the film to focus at infinity.

Anyone know of a lens that will work?

Here is an example of what I'm talking about that was done with 8x0:

https://scooterinthesticks.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/160130_photography_life005.jpg

Two23
31-Mar-2018, 19:04
Most lenses for 3/4 plate should do that.


Kent in SD

Steve Williams_812
31-Mar-2018, 20:29
Most but not all. Some of the Wide field Ektars in the 90 - 107 range cover. Have to wade through a lot of specs to make an estimate. Was hoping someone had a lens they knew would do this.

Lou Baleur
31-Mar-2018, 21:09
Any lens will work. All you have to do is black out a uv filter around the periphery deep enough to get the desired effect on the ground glass. Or just cut out an aperture on a piece of black paper that can fit where the filter would go. You can make the vignette any shape you want, not just circular.

Pfsor
1-Apr-2018, 00:34
[QUOTE=Steve Williams_812;1437819]
Anyone know of a lens that will work?


Steve, you're confusing two different things - lens vignetting and lens image circle. Therefore the above answer to your question is correct. I would just add that you can make a lens shade long enough to vignette on your lens.

locutus
1-Apr-2018, 01:08
Wideangles intended for 6x9?

Doremus Scudder
1-Apr-2018, 04:08
80-100mm lenses for MF cameras should do the trick. And, as mentioned, you can always mechanically vignette any lens with a lens hood or something like a mailing tube cut to the desired length to do the job.

Best,

Doremus

Tin Can
1-Apr-2018, 06:32
You could do it all in post.

Most people choose Adobe.

Prior generations had mechanical and enlarging solutions.

BESELER 57MVT 5X7 DIFFUSION & VIGNETTING ENLARGER (http://store.khbphotografix.com/Beseler-5x7-Diffusion-Enlarger-Instruction-Manual.html)

I had one of these for a short time. It has 4 corner lights that can be adjusted to create vignettes while enlarging. It would burn in the corners.

I now regret I let it go. Seeking

Dan Fromm
1-Apr-2018, 06:43
Use a telephoto lens no longer than around 200 mm. 8"/5.6 TeleRaptar/TeleOptar, for example.

paulbarden
1-Apr-2018, 06:43
I took the lens off my Lubitel II and put it on a 4x5 box I made, and got this effect.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4213/35554672125_17dea8b269_b.jpg

locutus
1-Apr-2018, 06:46
Oh thats lovely, how large is the image circle that the Lubitel lens puts out?

Pfsor
1-Apr-2018, 07:05
I took the lens off my Lubitel II and put it on a 4x5 box I made, and got this effect.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4213/35554672125_17dea8b269_b.jpg

Personally I think that a much better effect you get by using a circular frame passe- partout. The amount of the black corners is visually disturbing.

paulbarden
1-Apr-2018, 07:13
Oh thats lovely, how large is the image circle that the Lubitel lens puts out?

Dunno, really. But I can attest to the fact that it just barely made it as far as the edges on the 4" side.

paulbarden
1-Apr-2018, 07:16
Personally I think that a much better effect you get by using a circular frame passe- partout. The amount of the black corners is visually disturbing.

I didn't say I LOVE this effect - I am just providing the OP evidence that the Lubitel's lens did pretty much what he wanted to accomplish on 4X5. This image was just a proof of concept - its not a technique I currently have a use for.

Tin Can
1-Apr-2018, 07:19
Buy this used. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/801255913-USE/cambo_calumet_deluxe_compendium_lens_hood.html

Steve Williams_812
1-Apr-2018, 08:09
You could do it all in post.

Most people choose Adobe.

Prior generations had mechanical and enlarging solutions.

BESELER 57MVT 5X7 DIFFUSION & VIGNETTING ENLARGER (http://store.khbphotografix.com/Beseler-5x7-Diffusion-Enlarger-Instruction-Manual.html)

I had one of these for a short time. It has 4 corner lights that can be adjusted to create vignettes while enlarging. It would burn in the corners.

I now regret I let it go. Seeking

For reasons I can't explain yet, I continue to print "straight" in the darkroom. While manipulating exposure, contrast, dodging and burning of the image, I don't do any further fussing. I want as much as possible to be in the negative when it comes to vignette for instance. Same goes for fiddling with filters or devices to create an effect. I suppose I want the vignetting to be mindless. Maybe.

Anyways, I purchased a Kodak Ektar 105mm f/3.7 Lens mounted in a Flash Supermatic Shutter a few hours ago on eBay. Fingers crossed that it will do what I want.

Thanks for the advice -- yours and to everyone else as well.

Steve Williams_812
1-Apr-2018, 08:11
Personally I think that a much better effect you get by using a circular frame passe- partout. The amount of the black corners is visually disturbing.

Funny how we see things. What disturbs you most I find intriguing. Lovely image. Has the strange, voyeuristic feel I seek.

Tin Can
1-Apr-2018, 08:28
Options are always good.

Just checked your link. I like the winterized scooter. I have ridden year round in Chicago, then it was an R75/5 long and short frame. Windjammer and bags. Now my circulation is poor. Cold extremities getting colder.

Yet, I rode my Honda PCX 150 yesterday and hope my left hand can use the clutch on my Sporty soon.

20 years ago I rode in Chicago Scooter rallies on a Velosolex just to out-nerd them. The only way to keep them in sight was to never stop, full blast at 18 mph at all times. And pedalling! Exercise.

200+ bikes so far. I want a Svartpilen, but to do that I need to sell a camera. :(




For reasons I can't explain yet, I continue to print "straight" in the darkroom. While manipulating exposure, contrast, dodging and burning of the image, I don't do any further fussing. I want as much as possible to be in the negative when it comes to vignette for instance. Same goes for fiddling with filters or devices to create an effect. I suppose I want the vignetting to be mindless. Maybe.

Anyways, I purchased a Kodak Ektar 105mm f/3.7 Lens mounted in a Flash Supermatic Shutter a few hours ago on eBay. Fingers crossed that it will do what I want.

Thanks for the advice -- yours and to everyone else as well.

Pfsor
1-Apr-2018, 08:28
Nothing surprising for me - there are as many personal tastes as there are persons.

LabRat
1-Apr-2018, 11:07
One thing to consider is how abrupt you want the fall-off to be...

With IC's different f-stops (from wide open to tiny closed down) will change this, as well as the shades/masks suggested... For IC effects, a lens with little obstructions on the edges but a clear path to the lens/iris will create more gradual edges from natural falloff rather than a abrupt line from obstructions at the barrel edges etc...

There's also burning in the edges while printing by cutting a card with a "sunray" or "explosion" shape, a piece of coat hanger as a handle, and keep it moving in front of the printing paper while enlarging for a few timer pops...

Emmet Gowin did quite a few LF vignetted image series, and HP Robinson developed a style for "naturalistic" pictorialism using this as an element of "natural" seeing around this...

Steve K

Steve Williams_812
1-Apr-2018, 14:03
Options are always good.

Just checked your link. I like the winterized scooter. I have ridden year round in Chicago, then it was an R75/5 long and short frame. Windjammer and bags. Now my circulation is poor. Cold extremities getting colder.

Yet, I rode my Honda PCX 150 yesterday and hope my left hand can use the clutch on my Sporty soon.

20 years ago I rode in Chicago Scooter rallies on a Velosolex just to out-nerd them. The only way to keep them in sight was to never stop, full blast at 18 mph at all times. And pedalling! Exercise.

200+ bikes so far. I want a Svartpilen, but to do that I need to sell a camera. :(

I hope I find the option I'm chasing...

Regarding the Vespa -- over the years I've configured it to accommodate my winter riding as well as the relentless reminders of aging and cold weather. I've begun to understand why people move south when they get older. The apron on the scooter, something people had been telling me to get for years, is a minor miracle. It has made riding down to 15F simple. With a bit more gear I can ride comfortably to -10F. Snow tires help in the snow but more and more I avoid it.

Left hand limitations -- did you have a mishap? I used to enjoy shifting but as I mellow I'm content to just twist the throttle. For a few years I had been reviewing motorcycles and got my fill. But man, the Husqvarna would be something that would sake my youthful memories of motorcycles and the Baja 500. The Svartpilen with its aggressive tires get those idea flowing. Hope you find a way to add it to your list!

Steve Williams_812
1-Apr-2018, 14:09
One thing to consider is how abrupt you want the fall-off to be...

With IC's different f-stops (from wide open to tiny closed down) will change this, as well as the shades/masks suggested... For IC effects, a lens with little obstructions on the edges but a clear path to the lens/iris will create more gradual edges from natural falloff rather than a abrupt line from obstructions at the barrel edges etc...

There's also burning in the edges while printing by cutting a card with a "sunray" or "explosion" shape, a piece of coat hanger as a handle, and keep it moving in front of the printing paper while enlarging for a few timer pops...

Emmet Gowin did quite a few LF vignetted image series, and HP Robinson developed a style for "naturalistic" pictorialism using this as an element of "natural" seeing around this...

Steve K

I tend to like the abrupt fall off from the barrel. Need to experiment more though.

When I was in school Emmet Gowin visited our MFA group. He was a friend of one of the professors. He presented work and talked about his processes. At that point he was doing his aerial work but brought along some of his early family stuff as well. It was the first time I had seen someone so masterful and passionate about the printing process. He showed several examples of images from first proof to final print, something that comprised a dozen or more print steps including toning. I thought the first proof was great. The final print was a revelation though.

As our group of seven students was huddled around the table looking at pictures and talking his wife Edith had come in the room. So strange to see her in the prints years earlier and in the flesh at the same time. I'm grateful for that day.

Tin Can
1-Apr-2018, 14:23
I hope I find the option I'm chasing...

Regarding the Vespa -- over the years I've configured it to accommodate my winter riding as well as the relentless reminders of aging and cold weather. I've begun to understand why people move south when they get older. The apron on the scooter, something people had been telling me to get for years, is a minor miracle. It has made riding down to 15F simple. With a bit more gear I can ride comfortably to -10F. Snow tires help in the snow but more and more I avoid it.

Left hand limitations -- did you have a mishap? I used to enjoy shifting but as I mellow I'm content to just twist the throttle. For a few years I had been reviewing motorcycles and got my fill. But man, the Husqvarna would be something that would sake my youthful memories of motorcycles and the Baja 500. The Svartpilen with its aggressive tires get those idea flowing. Hope you find a way to add it to your list!

Just a weak paw, perhaps damaged from years of very stiff clutches and a crash until I learned to fiddle them better. Arthritus set in some time ago.

My obsession with bikes began in Douglasville, Pa. In 1964 my brother bought a gorgous all white Norton Electra. I was 13 and way too small to get it off and back on the centerstand. So every time everybody was gone, I would use the electric start and warm it up. Never rode it. 12 years later I bought one. It tossed me down in a speed wobble. I broke this left wrist in 2 spots and 3 in my right foot. The bike was still idling on it's side, totally undamaged. I rode it the next day in big casts. Then I bought a better bike.

Pere Casals
1-Apr-2018, 15:20
You can also make the vignet in the printing process, after exposing paper you remove the negative and you expose again while dodging the center. With that you can obtain "periscope" prints also from older regular negatives.

Mark Sampson
1-Apr-2018, 21:54
I once had an 80/2.8 Schneider Xenotar in a Compur shutter. Probably the same lens as used on a Rollei TLR. It gave the effect you're looking for on 4x5. I sold it on this forum some years back, but any similar lens might do the job.
IIRC Mr. Gowin used a 90/6.8 Schneider Angulon on an 8x10 camera, but i'm not certain of that.

Drew Bedo
2-Apr-2018, 15:13
Any of the Oscilloscope lenses will do what you want.

These are the "Oscillo Raptars and Oscillo Paragons. Typically these are 75mm f/1.9 . Makes nearly a 4" circle on 4x5. Typically these are 75mm f/1.9. Some say they are a bit soft . . .you mqay want that. Generally $50-%100 on e-bay.

This is a full frame shot on 4x5.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/27983676@N07/39410062560/in/dateposted-public/

Dan Fromm
3-Apr-2018, 08:15
There are still cheap Elgeet 'scope camera lenses in Ilex 3. If, that is, you're not a brand snob.

ic-racer
3-Apr-2018, 09:20
This is an example of a 75mm Horseman/Topcor 6x9cm Format lens on 4x5" film. Specs show image circle of 120mm for that lens.

176670

Drew Bedo
3-Apr-2018, 12:11
Thinking cheap and out of the box a bit . . . .

About any lens from a 120/220 roll film in 6x6 cm format camera should give the effect looked for by the OP. Some lens/shutter salvaged from a 6x6 folder with a blown out bellows should work and be truly inexpensive.

Dan Fromm
3-Apr-2018, 13:02
Wow.

I just looked up these Oscilloscope lenses on e-Bay again after years. The prices have exploded. What is driving that?

Ignorant fools spending money foolishly.

To be kinder and less judgmental, people who value what lens abuse -- repurposing lenses for applications very different than the ones they were designed for -- can do to image quality.

Drew Bedo
3-Apr-2018, 17:30
Oren: Sorry. Didn't mean to step outside.

Here is a link to an image on flicker. Not sure how to upload the image from flicker. This is a full-frame 4x5r from a few years ago.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/27983676@N07/39410062560/in/dateposted-public/

Peter Gomena
3-Apr-2018, 22:19
75mm f/2.9 Schneider Radionar bought for $50 on eBay. It came from a Balda folding 120 camera. Not perfect, but close. I need to play with it a little more.

176679