First Voigtlander Petzval series - help with German, if possible!

[Steven Tribe]

Lady Luck has sent an early Petzval (8292) to my door. This is a one of the first with a Braunschweig made Waterhouse Slot, but still with the difference in viewing and chemical focal lengths.

Claus Prochnow's book lets me identify this as model 4, which is a EFL 8 1/4" F.2.6 - quite a uniquely fast version. He also has a few remarks about adjusting for chemical focussing after visual focussing.
I reproduce the passage.

I have always assumed that the comments refer to movements of the tangential drive, but I could be mistaken! The main problem is the word "Thir." for which I have unable to find in translation or German dictionaries. The numbers given for the "movement" seem excessive, if they refer to the turns of the knob or even gear teeth.

I know I can always do a trial and error experiment and play with filters and test cards, but it would be nice if I could use other's knowledge of German or experience with this very first Petzval design.

[lucaas]

It looks "Thlr" to me. Google says it is a silver coin used in many Europe countries.

[Steven Tribe]

That would add to the cost of using the lens quite considerably - certainly an alternative use of silver in photography!

But I think you are right about the Thlr, rathr than Thir.

[HoodedOne]

The ‘thaler’ was a coin used in different european countries from 1538 to 1847.
It seems weird that such old coin name would be used in a book.

[seven]

Steven, the paragraph you think is about "adjusting for chemical focussing" is actually about the price charged for the modification of old lenses (exchange of glass i would presume). "berechnet" means money charged in this case and the price is per lens in Thalers.
btw - you should do something about this upside down images

[Steven Tribe]

Yes, I realised this was an exchange offer as soon as soon the penny dropped about this being a charge (thalers) for "fixing" the old glass in old Voigtlanders. Looks like the redesign for getting the visual/chemical match was not that extensive - perhaps just one of the lenses in the rear pair. The figures given are about 10% of the price of a complete new lens.

This offer by Voigtlander means that we will never able to know from a serial number whether it has the first or revised Petzval design.

Sorry about the reversal! My thumbnails are inverted too, but show the right way up in the larger image.

[Doremus Scudder]

Hi Steven,

I’m fairly fluent in German, having lived in Austria for almost 30 years and running a translation service on the side :)

Here’s my quick translation of the text starting below the table at the sentence with the asterisk. Hope it helps.

"* My conversion based on the Vienna Standard (or product line):

For the correction of the “focus difference” of older lenses (the amount) charged was:
No. 1 3 Thaler… etc.

For installing a center aperture in old lenses:
…

Concerning the installation of center apertures (Steckblende ~ Waterhouse stops); these are installed in a manner that allows them to be changed instantly, without unscrewing the front and rear elements (literally, head and front lenses), even during a sitting (portrait sitting is likely meant here) Note: Waterhouse stops were introduced around lens (serial number) 8000, but can also be retrofitted.

Data for earlier price lists deviate from the above-mentioned one from 1861, because the development was not yet complete. …”

If you need more just PM me with the text.

Best,

Doremus

[Steven Tribe]

Many thanks! It is a great improvement on my piecemeal (and misleading!) translation.

So Voigtlander were offering factory Waterhouse slot additions, and the "conversion" of old lenses suggests a reprofiling of existing glass lenses, rather than replacement glass.

[anachromatic]

From an original Voigtlander german catalog of 1863.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/BXYYQ9.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnBXYYQ9j)

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/923/qXvdeQ.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnqXvdeQj)

[Steven Tribe]

This contains further details about the conversion service on page two and serial number transitions.