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HT Finley
30-Mar-2018, 21:44
When I got my Super Graphic, I did some waiting on the auction site to get just the right flash, which was a Honeywell Stobonar 682S. Really nice. The flash handle diameter was the #1 must-have, because the Graflite flash bracket rings fit perfectly. Moving down the list is thyristor operation, andcommon AA batteries. A fine flash in every way. But my trusty Sunpak 611 I bought new in '76 is what I wished I could put on it. I WILL NOT use the typical tripod mount flash bracket. So, my question--what other flash (preferably an old Sunpak) has the flash handle that the Graflite rings fit on? And it must have variable power from 1X to 1/128 power, like the 611. The Honewell one is a fine flash, but I'm an artisan with my Sunpak. I don't think I've ever used it at full power. If I did, it would blind the dead, if I needed the power. Please don't name some new model flash. I'm not interested. Thank you.

Bob Salomon
31-Mar-2018, 04:42
Rollei E36re

Mark Sampson
31-Mar-2018, 10:37
Norman 200b?

Jac@stafford.net
31-Mar-2018, 12:28
Funny, but the Sunpak 611 was my longest lasting flash. There are several on the auction site.

FWIW, the Graflite flash handle is exactly 1.5" diameter.

Bob Salomon
31-Mar-2018, 12:35
Norman 200b?

Not automatic, no AA cells, not self-contained.

pendennis
31-Mar-2018, 14:09
I was on the same quest some forty years ago. If I remember correctly, the only flashes which had a handle diameter of 1.5", were the Strobonars and the Heiland predecessors. The Strobonars were later made/distributed by Rollie.

I also found an old Bogen Power Flash handle, and adapted a Lumedyne head to it. It was also 1.5" in diameter.

PS - You may want to have the capacitor checked in that Strobonar. If it hasn't been used in a long time, those old capacitors some times fail catastrophically.

HMG
31-Mar-2018, 14:22
Of course the Sunpak 611, IIRC, used C batteries not AA.

Jac@stafford.net
31-Mar-2018, 14:26
Of course the Sunpak 611, IIRC, used C batteries not AA.

He's right. I forgot we used to carry an external battery pack. A total PITA.

Bob Salomon
31-Mar-2018, 14:34
He's right. I forgot we used to carry an external battery pack. A total PITA.

Actually the E36re also didn’t use AA it used a NiCad sinter cell.
Also Rollei didn’t distribute Honeywell, they bought Honeywell flash units and became the manufacturer. While Rollei bought Honeywell Rolllei then fired all Rollei of America employees and moved the company from NJ to CO and replaced all the former Rollei employees with Honeywell employees. I was part of the NJ Rollei group.

Jac@stafford.net
31-Mar-2018, 14:35
Actually the E36re also didn’t use AA it used a NiCad sinter cell.
Also Rollei didn’t distribute Honeywell, they bought Honeywell flash units and became the manufacturer. While Rollei bought Honeywell Rolllei then fired all Rollei of America employees and moved the company from NJ to CO and replaced all the former Rollei employees with Honeywell employees. I was part of the NJ Rollei group.

Does that make you a good-guy or a bad-guy? :)

Bob Salomon
31-Mar-2018, 14:57
Does that make you a good-guy or a bad-guy? :)

Neither, I was with Rollei two more times after that fiasco.

Jac@stafford.net
31-Mar-2018, 15:09
Neither, I was with Rollei two more times after that fiasco.

Be careful, Bob. You have only nine lives.
.

Bob Salomon
31-Mar-2018, 15:16
Be careful, Bob. You have only nine lives.
.

Rollei, finally, is no more! Liquidated a few years ago.

HT Finley
31-Mar-2018, 18:49
Thank you for all these responses. I looked at that Rollei flash mentioned it the second post. But it looks like it doesn't have the variable power manual mode I want. I never used my Sunpak in auto mode. I used it strictly manually, using the variable power feature for the f/stop or shutter speed I wanted. The idea is to use the variable power feature to make the flash be either fill light, or as main light, whichever conditions called for. It's that variable power from 1X to 1/128X that made it so useful. but my Graflite rings won't fit it. So, to recap, what I'm looking for is the variable power manual mode + handle diameter for the Graflite rings to fit it. 2 absolute requirements.
Back in the day of flashbulbs, planned fill light could be achieved only by moving the flash distance. single power manual electronic flashes are no better. With that 611, you could be a true artisan with fill lighting. But the dadgum thing is one big piece of beef, and mounted to a Graflex with its dedicated bracket and tripod screw is very clumsy and insecure.

Bob Salomon
31-Mar-2018, 19:15
Thank you for all these responses. I looked at that Rollei flash mentioned it the second post. But it looks like it doesn't have the variable power manual mode I want. I never used my Sunpak in auto mode. I used it strictly manually, using the variable power feature for the f/stop or shutter speed I wanted. The idea is to use the variable power feature to make the flash be either fill light, or as main light, whichever conditions called for. It's that variable power from 1X to 1/128X that made it so useful. but my Graflite rings won't fit it. So, to recap, what I'm looking for is the variable power manual mode + handle diameter for the Graflite rings to fit it. 2 absolute requirements.
Back in the day of flashbulbs, planned fill light could be achieved only by moving the flash distance. single power manual electronic flashes are no better. With that 611, you could be a true artisan with fill lighting. But the dadgum thing is one big piece of beef, and mounted to a Graflex with its dedicated bracket and tripod screw is very clumsy and insecure.

You missed something:

Rollei E 36 RE
# 400110 made in Germany

The top model. In production from February 1973 to 1981, total made 70,800. It has three choices of f-stops at any ASA setting, plus an external sensor for indirect lighting technique.

HT Finley
31-Mar-2018, 19:35
Thank you. The Sunpak 611 has 8 choices of variable power. Truth be known, it's variable duration, not variable brightness in the true sense, as with an incadescent bulb on a dimmer. I bought mine new in '76, and to this day I think the Sunpak Auto 611 is the height of electronic flash design. Just makes me sick I can't put my Graflite bands on it. I guess I'll just have to have my bands cut, and metal added.

hsandler
1-Apr-2018, 18:32
This was my solution.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4738/39094376191_97f1e5d117_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/22yCU1P)Crown Graphic Still Life (https://flic.kr/p/22yCU1P) by Howard Sandler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hsandler/), on Flickr

HT Finley
1-Apr-2018, 18:46
[QUOTE=hsandler;1437975]This was my solution.
I had seen that somewhere before and thought it was sort of neat, but discounted it. The 283 is like so many other auto flashes that gives you several ranges in auto mode, but none in manual mode. I'm getting a bit frustrated that I'm not getting through. Multiple ranges in auto mode are worthless to me. I'm talking about variable power in MANUAL mode. Perhaps I'm not a very clear writer. The 611 gives the 6 or so choices in auto mode, which I'm not interested in using. And it gives 8 in MANUAL mode also. I want those manual mode choices + a handle that accepts graflite rings. I am not interested in any more posts concerning the auto mode of a flash.

hsandler
1-Apr-2018, 18:53
I understood. I'm not suggesting the particular flash (Vivitar 2500) in the photo, but the concept of putting an accessory hot or cold shoe on top of an old Graflite flash handle. Then you can put any old shoe flash on top that has manually adjustable power output, like the ubiquitous Vivitar 285.

Bob Salomon
1-Apr-2018, 18:56
[QUOTE=hsandler;1437975]This was my solution.
I had seen that somewhere before and thought it was sort of neat, but discounted it. The 283 is like so many other auto flashes that gives you several ranges in auto mode, but none in manual mode. I'm getting a bit frustrated that I'm not getting through. Multiple ranges in auto mode are worthless to me. I'm talking about variable power in MANUAL mode. Perhaps I'm not a very clear writer. The 611 gives the 6 or so choices in auto mode, which I'm not interested in using. And it gives 8 in MANUAL mode also. I want those manual mode choices + a handle that accepts graflite rings. I am not interested in any more posts concerning the auto mode of a flash.
Guess you have never tried the Metz 60 CT-4!

hsandler
1-Apr-2018, 19:01
[QUOTE=HT Finley;1437977]
Guess you have never tried the Metz 60 CT-4!

I think the OP stated he didn't want to use an L bracket. I think the 60CT-4 has a handle too fat to use the Graflex clamps. I have a 45CT-5 and the handle is definitely too fat. Actually, I've tried tarting up my Graflex with both my frankenflash handle (with a Nikon SB800 flash on top--that would fit the criteria of a flash with manually adjustable power output by the way) and a Metz as fill flash.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4801/26879213258_20f8f3601f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GXdZDm)Crown Graphic tarted up (https://flic.kr/p/GXdZDm) by Howard Sandler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hsandler/), on Flickr

Bob Salomon
1-Apr-2018, 19:17
[QUOTE=Bob Salomon;1437980]

I think the OP stated he didn't want to use an L bracket. I think the 60CT-4 has a handle too fat to use the Graflex clamps. I have a 45CT-5 and the handle is definitely too fat. Actually, I've tried tarting up my Graflex with both my frankenflash handle (with a Nikon SB800 flash on top--that would fit the criteria of a flash with manually adjustable power output by the way) and a Metz as fill flash.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4801/26879213258_20f8f3601f_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GXdZDm)Crown Graphic tarted up (https://flic.kr/p/GXdZDm) by Howard Sandler (https://www.flickr.com/photos/hsandler/), on Flickr

With hose clamps and ingenuity the Metz can be adapted to the Graflex bracket but I would just screw a Metz type plate to the bracket on the Graflex.

HT Finley
1-Apr-2018, 19:36
I could achieve the wanted goal if there was a way to rig up venetian blind style louvers on my Honeywell Strobonar. But mounting my 611 to the Graflex with the standard bracket and tripod socket screw is out. A 3/16 tripod socket and screw to hold together 2 hunks of beef like that has worked out terribly. It slips around all the time, and if you carry the camera by the leather handle, the weight of the flash might rip out the tripod socket, and vice versa by carrying the rig by the flash handle. Plus there's a lot of hand switching to operate the cocking lever, focus, and getting set for the shot. Too bad honeywell went out of the camera business before the Strobonar was allowed to evolve to the level of the Sunpaks and Metzes and such.

Mark Sampson
1-Apr-2018, 20:21
FWIW, there was a variable-power module that plugged into the front of a Vivitar 283. So that might work. Don't know what other Vivitars might have done that, I gave away my 283s and all the accessories 6-7 years back.
And "lots of hand switching"... that's one good reason why MF roll film cameras took over. Rolleis, Hasselblads, Mamiyas, Bronicas... all got the job done easier with a big flash hanging off the side. Even Graflex's move to modernize, the XL, required separate film wind and shutter cocking. Wasn't a sales success, and gone by 1973.

HT Finley
1-Apr-2018, 21:12
[QUOTE=hsandler;1437982]

With hose clamps and ingenuity the Metz can be adapted to the Graflex bracket but I would just screw a Metz type plate to the bracket on the Graflex.

Thank you for the constructive post. The only thing I have against adopting this idea is the obvious parallax of the flash beam to camera angle of view. Seems like you'd have to be at least 10 feet away from your subject to get the flash to cover the negative area.

HT Finley
1-Apr-2018, 21:19
Looks like it's back to the drawing board with my Honeywell 682S. Just no capability for fill flash artisanry. (is that a word?) I think the Strobonars must have been originally designed to replace the Graflite. They don't weigh anything, and pack a wallop, although outmatched on raw power by the Sunpak, but still pretty hot. With that Strobonar on a Super Graphic with its red button operational, and a Grafmatic holder, you could grab shots almost as fast as an F2 with an MD-2. Well, close enough. A Graflex with a Strobonar is not the least bit clumsy and unwieldly. Thanks, folks.

Bob Salomon
2-Apr-2018, 00:26
[QUOTE=Bob Salomon;1437984]

Thank you for the constructive post. The only thing I have against adopting this idea is the obvious parallax of the flash beam to camera angle of view. Seems like you'd have to be at least 10 feet away from your subject to get the flash to cover the negative area.
Why, it should be no different then mounting the Strobonar and the Metz head swivels as well as tilts so aiming it is no problem!

hsandler
2-Apr-2018, 05:44
Just wanted to add that just about any moderate to upscale modern flash from the digital era, like the Nikon Sb600, 800 and Canon equivalents, can be used with simple hot shoe triggering even with off brand cameras. They all have swivel and tilt heads and manually adjustable power in half stop increments. So if you can get a shoe attached to your Super Graphic, or a shoe attached to an accessory handle, you've got a flash solution. Since these flashes usually lack sync cables, I put a hot shoe adapter (about $9 from B&H IIRC) in the cold shoe I mounted on my graflite handle. It's got male and female pc connectors on it, and I then run a pc to pc cable to the shutter.

Bob Salomon
2-Apr-2018, 10:05
“... They don't weigh anything, and pack a wallop, although outmatched on raw power by the Sunpak, but still pretty hot. ”

This is a very deceiving statement as you need to know the angle of coverage of the flash to know if it is really “pretty hot” when compared to other flashes. Some manufacturers boost their stated output by specifying it over a very narrow angle of coverage.
Then you need to know how even that coverage is from edge to edge.

pendennis
2-Apr-2018, 13:49
Looks like it's back to the drawing board with my Honeywell 682S. Just no capability for fill flash artisanry. (is that a word?) I think the Strobonars must have been originally designed to replace the Graflite. They don't weigh anything, and pack a wallop, although outmatched on raw power by the Sunpak, but still pretty hot. With that Strobonar on a Super Graphic with its red button operational, and a Grafmatic holder, you could grab shots almost as fast as an F2 with an MD-2. Well, close enough. A Graflex with a Strobonar is not the least bit clumsy and unwieldly. Thanks, folks.

The Strobonars were a bit overrated when it came to pure power. They always advertised a guide number of 80 (f4@20ft), using Kodachrome 25, but you could guarantee some underexposure at that setting. I worked out my own guide numbers, as did most of the photographers I knew. Of course, part of the problem was with the ni-cads (especially with the 700 series). You could get a ready light before the capacitor was completely charged.

Don't get me wrong, for the size of the package, they provided a ton of light, and one of the main advantages was that the light was slightly warm, providing skin tones that didn't have a pasty look to them.

The sub-C cells in the head (700 series) were notorious for quickly developing a memory, if you didn't run down the batteries before recharging. In fact, my dad built a small assembly which would draw down the batteries to zero charge before I would recharge them.

ic-racer
2-Apr-2018, 14:38
FYI: 3-cell (11.4V nominal) LiPo 850mAh fits in the E36RE handle with simple adapter. Remove to charge, of course.

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