agfa neutol wa formula

[Jack_5762]

Does anyone have the formula for Agfa Neutol WA paper developer?

[paulr]

It's not published, and it seemed to me to be a unique formula among of the shelf developers.

Ansco 135 (ardol) is a published formula with a lot of similar characteristics that might be worth looking at. But it's not the same thing.

[Jay DeFehr]

I don't know the formula for Neutol WA, but results from my Rapid Universal developer are practically indistinguishable. If you're interested in the formula, let me know.

Jay

[paulr]

I'd be interested. I have a friend who really liked neutol.

[tim atherton]

has agfa announced the end of processing chemicals...?

[Merg Ross]

Jack-
I don't have a formula but the ingredients as I recall were Potassium Sulfite, Hydroquinone, Potassium Carbonate and EDTA Sodium Salt. The Ansco 135 that Paul mentions is a Metol formula, considered a warm tone developer. Depending on the paper that you are using it might be worth a try. Good question, Tim.

[Jay DeFehr]

Hi Paul.

Here's the formula:

DRU

distilled water 750ml

Sodium sulfite 36g

Hydroquinone 3.6g

Sodium carbonate 20g

Borax 10g

Phenidone .5g

Sodium ascorbate 4.5g

BZT 1% 10ml

distilled water to 1 liter

For warmer tones, substitute 1g KBR for the BZT.

Jay

[paulr]

just curious ... why both sodium carbonate and borax?

[Jay DeFehr]

Buffering capacity.

J

[Sal Santamaura]

First, an addendum to Merg's list taken from Agfa's Neutol WA MSDS. The EDTA is Tetrasodium salt, and other ingredients include Phenidone and Potassium bromide.

Given that Agfa rates shelf life of the Neutol WA concentrate at 2 years, and considering recurring rumors that conventional photo products from this manufacturer will soon disappear, I'm thinking about purchasing four 1250ml containers of Neutol WA and decanting it into five 1 liter glass bottles. I hope that the developer will keep somewhat longer and tide me over until a permanent darkroom (with facilities better suited to mixing powdered chemicals) and a long-awaited supply of amidol become available.

This leads to a question for those using Neutol WA: what is the batch number on the label of your most recently purchased stock? I'd like to store up from the freshest production available, so thanks in advance for your help.

[Tom Westbrook]

If the batch number is on the back label on the bottle, I have "89500 0" on a bottle I bought yesterday at my local photo shop. No clue how old it is, but there wasn't much dust on the boxes.

[Sal Santamaura]

Mr. Ingolf Marzenski of A&O Group, the firm that purchased AgfaPhoto's minilab and chemical business, just informed me that Neutol WA is among the black and white chemicals they will continue to manufacture.

[Sal Santamaura]

Mr. Ingolf Marzenski of A&O Group, the firm that purchased AgfaPhoto's minilab and chemical business, just informed me that Neutol WA is among the black and white chemicals they will continue to manufacture.And for those in the US who would like to purchase some, I just discovered that it's in stock at Freestyle:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=458

[IanG]

This is the Formula for Neutol WA published in Foto & Labor, 3/ 1996, page 17, the ratios have been ajusted to compare with Ilford ID-78

Neutol WA

Potassium Sulphite 60 g - this is equivalent to 48 g Sodium Sulphite
Hydroquinone 12 g
Phenidone 0.4 g
Potassium Carbonate 12 g
Potassium Hydroxide 4 g
Potassium Bromide 2.67 g
Water to 1 litre

Ilford ID-78 Warm Tone Developer

Sodium Sulphite 50 g
Hydroquinone 12 g
Phenidone 0.5 g
Sodium Carbonate 62 g
Potassium Bromide 4.5 g
Water to 1 litre

Both - Use 1+3

(Carbonate/Sulphite both anhydrous)

They are pretty much interchangeable, Iford use Potassium Carbonate andSodium Hydroxide in commercial liquid developers in place of Sodium Carbonate. ID-78 was available as a Powder developer in the 1960's. Agfa use Potassium sulphite, Potassium salts tend to give slightly warmer tones compared to Sodium salts.

Ian

[Sal Santamaura]

This is the Formula for Neutol WA published in Foto & Labor, 3/ 1996, page 17, the ratios have been ajusted to compare with Ilford ID-78...Ian, what does "...the ratios have been adjusted..." mean? What was the "unadjusted" formula exactly as published in Foto & Labor, 3/1996? Thanks!

[IanG]

Sol, I divided the concentrate quantities by 3.75 to get a comparison with published Ilford & Kodak formulae, and left out the EDTA Na4.

Here's the formula translated from German:

Neutol WA Concentrate

EDTA Na4 10g
Potassium Sulphite 225 g
Hydroquinone 45 g
Phenidone 1.5 g
Potassium Carbonate 45 g
Potassium Hydroxide 15 g
Potassium Bromide 10 g
Water to 1 litre

Use 1+9 (1+7 - 1+14)

Like Ilford ID-78 it has a good shelf life, both give very similar tones.

Ian

[W K Longcor]

Just somthing to add to the mix ------ AND, I'm going from memory - so take everything I say with a grain of salt --

Back in the early 1960's --Neutol was available from Agfa as a box with two packets of dry chemical, which you mixed together in water. It gave some very nice tones. I was working in a local camera store at the time. One day, the Agfa sales rep. (his name was Sam -- that part of my memory is good -- I don't know why) was in the shop. I told him that I was trying the Neutol in my home darkroom - and liked it very much. He asked me which paper I was using. I gave him a list of papers -- including Agfa Portiga Rapid 118. He let me in on a "secret" -- NEVER throw out the Neutol! When done printing - pour the used developer into a large jug, then from a separate bottle ( with the fresh stuff in it) "top off" the jug of used stuff with fresh. I tried it. After several weeks of printing, the developer was VERY dark - you had to develop by time only ( which was like 4 minutes)- you couldn't really see your print in the tray. I also remember that it got a rather strong odor. BUT, the prints - particularly on the Portriga paper took on the most wonderful warm brown tones! I kept that one jug going for over 4 years - and only dumped it when I moved into a different house.

Now, just how much the liquid concentrate mimics the old powder mix, I do not know. Also, you would have to do your "topping off" from a diluted working strength mix.

I realize that this is probably all a bunch of useless information -- just consider it some photo history.:o

[IanG]

Neutol powder developers were slightly different formulae to the Liquid versions, the WA powder version was Metol based and probably used Sodium Sulphite & Carbonate, it would not have contained Hydroxide.

I last bought WA powder in the mid to late 80's it wasn't quite as Warm-toned as the liquid PQ version which is to be expected.

Ian

[W K Longcor]

Neutol powder developers were slightly different formulae to the Liquid versions, the WA powder version was Metol based and probably used Sodium Sulphite & Carbonate, it would not have contained Hydroxide.

I last bought WA powder in the mid to late 80's it wasn't quite as Warm-toned as the liquid PQ version which is to be expected.

Ian

I remember the powdered variety as having some nice characteristics. Using the "never throw it out" method, it gained a wonderful warm tone image. My memory says even warmer than the liquid -- but then again the papers were very different then -- maybe it was more the paper and it's emulsion than just the developer.

[Shen45]

Would anyone have a Metol powder based Neutol WA formula. I have plenty of Metol and no Phenidone. Or could I substitute about 10 times the Metol for the Phenidone?

Steve

[IanG]

Just look at ID20 (MQ)/ID-62(PQ) and the warm tone variant ID-78.

Replace the Phenidone with 3 grams of Metol, you may need to add a gram or two more of Bromide. That is around 10x :D

Use either formula Neutol WA or ID-78 they give virtually identical results, but as Metol is a fraction colder working you may need to add an extra gram of Potassium Bromide.

Ian

[Shen45]

Thanks Ian for the quick reply. I will try that suggestion and see what happens.

Steve

[mohmadkhatab]

Sol, I divided the concentrate quantities by 3.75 to get a comparison with published Ilford & Kodak formulae, and left out the EDTA Na4.

Here's the formula translated from German:

Neutol WA Concentrate

EDTA Na4 10g
Potassium Sulphite 225 g
Hydroquinone 45 g
Phenidone 1.5 g
Potassium Carbonate 45 g
Potassium Hydroxide 15 g
Potassium Bromide 10 g
Water to 1 litre

Use 1+9 (1+7 - 1+14)

Like Ilford ID-78 it has a good shelf life, both give very similar tones.

Ian
Greetings to all .
This formula looks really great.
I have a simple inquiry, please.
Regarding Phenidone, it is actually not available in Egypt, and I had heard here that I can make up for it by using Metol 10 times.
Let me just confirm,
Does this mean that the compensation ratio is as follows:
1.5 x 10 = 15 grams

[mohmadkhatab]

Greetings to all

[peter schrager]

Greetings to all .
This formula looks really great.
I have a simple inquiry, please.
Regarding Phenidone, it is actually not available in Egypt, and I had heard here that I can make up for it by using Metol 10 times.
Let me just confirm,
Does this mean that the compensation ratio is as follows:
1.5 x 10 = 15 grams



can't answer that question but I make a lovely warm tone developer with no exotic ingredients
Ansco D55
water 750ml@ 125 degrees F
metol 2.5 grams
sodium sulfite 37.5 anhydrous
hydroquinone 10 grams
pott bromide 12grams
sodium carbonate anhydrous 37.5
water to make 1L
use 1:2
I've been using this for years and while I really like Neutol WA it has gotten expensive to buy
try this formula you will like it!!

[mohmadkhatab]

can't answer that question but I make a lovely warm tone developer with no exotic ingredients
Ansco D55
water 750ml@ 125 degrees F
metol 2.5 grams
sodium sulfite 37.5 anhydrous
hydroquinone 10 grams
pott bromide 12grams
sodium carbonate anhydrous 37.5
water to make 1L
use 1:2
I've been using this for years and while I really like Neutol WA it has gotten expensive to buy
try this formula you will like it!!
God bless you, my dear teacher.
You are a very nice man
Actually, I remembered sharing now.
I have already prepared (Neutol WA) according to the attached formula:
EDTA Na4 10g
Potassium Sulfite 225 g
Hydroquinone 45 g
Phenidone 1.5 g
Potassium Carbonate 45 g
Potassium Hydroxide 15 g
Potassium Bromide 10 g
Water to 1 liter

But I put the sodium sulfite with a mixture of potassium sulfite and this bothered me a lot and it was difficult to melt but it eventually melted after a lot of effort, and after adding five grams of potassium hydroxide.
I will prepare your description according to your advice next week.
But I have a question, regarding the formula ((Neutol WA)) I do not know what is the appropriate temperature for developing a negative Negative and what is the necessary processing time and the necessary dilution.
Greetings to you, dear sir.

[mohmadkhatab]

Just look at ID20 (MQ)/ID-62(PQ) and the warm tone variant ID-78.

Replace the Phenidone with 3 grams of Metol, you may need to add a gram or two more of Bromide. That is around 10x :D

Use either formula Neutol WA or ID-78 they give virtually identical results, but as Metol is a fraction colder working you may need to add an extra gram of Potassium Bromide.

Ian
Neutol WA Containing (Na4)
EDTA Na4 10g
Potassium Sulfite 225 g ( 225 g sod. sulfie)
Hydroquinone 45 g
Phenidone 1.5 g ((15 g Metol ))
Potassium Carbonate 45 g
Potassium Hydroxide 15 g
Potassium Bromide 10 g
Anti Fog .................1 g
Water to 1 liter

Is this format suitable for film?
How long, how often, and how much is the dilution rate according to the published German formula?

[mohmadkhatab]

First, an addendum to Merg's list taken from Agfa's Neutol WA MSDS. The EDTA is Tetrasodium salt, and other ingredients include Phenidone and Potassium bromide.

Given that Agfa rates shelf life of the Neutol WA concentrate at 2 years, and considering recurring rumors that conventional photo products from this manufacturer will soon disappear, I'm thinking about purchasing four 1250ml containers of Neutol WA and decanting it into five 1 liter glass bottles. I hope that the developer will keep somewhat longer and tide me over until a permanent darkroom (with facilities better suited to mixing powdered chemicals) and a long-awaited supply of amidol become available.

This leads to a question for those using Neutol WA: what is the batch number on the label of your most recently purchased stock? I'd like to store up from the freshest production available, so thanks in advance for your help.

I'm preparing chemistry from scratch.
I never buy any pre-made developers ,,,
- Yes, phendion is not available, but I do add metol (10 times) and a little (CD2). Things are fine.
Storage in a glass container is very important and effective.

[mohmadkhatab]

Just look at ID20 (MQ)/ID-62(PQ) and the warm tone variant ID-78.

Replace the Phenidone with 3 grams of Metol, you may need to add a gram or two more of Bromide. That is around 10x :D

Use either formula Neutol WA or ID-78 they give virtually identical results, but as Metol is a fraction colder working you may need to add an extra gram of Potassium Bromide.

Ian

Allow me a final inquiry
Have you already prepared that formula?
The formula from the German book (containing EDTA)
But I want to use it to treat negative films, not paper.
Do you know what the dilution rate would be if you wanted to develop films?
God bless you

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

I have already prepared (Neutol WA) according to the attached formula:
EDTA Na4 10g
Potassium Sulfite 225 g
Hydroquinone 45 g
Phenidone 1.5 g
Potassium Carbonate 45 g
Potassium Hydroxide 15 g
Potassium Bromide 10 g
Water to 1 liter

..
But I have a question, regarding the formula ((Neutol WA)) I do not know what is the appropriate temperature for developing a negative Negative and what is the necessary processing time and the necessary dilution.


Mohmad, this is a paper developer. Why do you want to use it for film?

[mohmadkhatab]

Mohmad, this is a paper developer. Why do you want to use it for film?

A rather strange question.
But the answer is: Because I am a rather poor man and do not have enough money to prepare another developer (film developer) in light of the complex circumstances the world is currently experiencing?
Thank you

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

A rather strange question.
But the answer is: Because I am a rather poor man and do not have enough money to prepare another developer (film developer) in light of the complex circumstances the world is currently experiencing?
Thank you

Ok, I get it now. This formulation is roughly the same as Kalogen. If its activity is also similar, then you can perhaps start with 1:50 dilution for developing film. Good luck.

[mohmadkhatab]

Ok, I get it now. This formulation is roughly the same as Kalogen. If its activity is also similar, then you can perhaps start with 1:50 dilution for developing film. Good luck.

Hello my respected brother Raghu ...

Dilution is: 1: 50 ,, (Will it be use one shot )?

Okay ,,

What is the temperature and time supposed to be?

From your point of view

God bless you

Greetings to you .

[mohmadkhatab]

I don't currently have test strips ,,
Also, I do not have a large stock of black and white film rolls,
Could you please tell me the time you use most, according to your previous experience and experiences, as a starting point for me.

[mohmadkhatab]

The answer is free from any benefit.
Thank you