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Jack_5762
22-Aug-2005, 08:25
Does anyone have the formula for Agfa Neutol WA paper developer?

paulr
22-Aug-2005, 11:52
It's not published, and it seemed to me to be a unique formula among of the shelf developers.

Ansco 135 (ardol) is a published formula with a lot of similar characteristics that might be worth looking at. But it's not the same thing.

Jay DeFehr
22-Aug-2005, 16:06
I don't know the formula for Neutol WA, but results from my Rapid Universal developer are practically indistinguishable. If you're interested in the formula, let me know.

Jay

paulr
22-Aug-2005, 18:13
I'd be interested. I have a friend who really liked neutol.

tim atherton
22-Aug-2005, 19:05
has agfa announced the end of processing chemicals...?

Merg Ross
22-Aug-2005, 22:49
Jack-
I don't have a formula but the ingredients as I recall were Potassium Sulfite, Hydroquinone, Potassium Carbonate and EDTA Sodium Salt. The Ansco 135 that Paul mentions is a Metol formula, considered a warm tone developer. Depending on the paper that you are using it might be worth a try. Good question, Tim.

Jay DeFehr
22-Aug-2005, 23:05
Hi Paul.

Here's the formula:

DRU

distilled water 750ml

Sodium sulfite 36g

Hydroquinone 3.6g

Sodium carbonate 20g

Borax 10g

Phenidone .5g

Sodium ascorbate 4.5g

BZT 1% 10ml

distilled water to 1 liter

For warmer tones, substitute 1g KBR for the BZT.

Jay

paulr
22-Aug-2005, 23:57
just curious ... why both sodium carbonate and borax?

Jay DeFehr
23-Aug-2005, 00:12
Buffering capacity.

J

Sal Santamaura
6-Sep-2005, 12:54
First, an addendum to Merg's list taken from Agfa's Neutol WA MSDS. The EDTA is Tetrasodium salt, and other ingredients include Phenidone and Potassium bromide.

Given that Agfa rates shelf life of the Neutol WA concentrate at 2 years, and considering recurring rumors that conventional photo products from this manufacturer will soon disappear, I'm thinking about purchasing four 1250ml containers of Neutol WA and decanting it into five 1 liter glass bottles. I hope that the developer will keep somewhat longer and tide me over until a permanent darkroom (with facilities better suited to mixing powdered chemicals) and a long-awaited supply of amidol become available.

This leads to a question for those using Neutol WA: what is the batch number on the label of your most recently purchased stock? I'd like to store up from the freshest production available, so thanks in advance for your help.

Tom Westbrook
11-Sep-2005, 16:40
If the batch number is on the back label on the bottle, I have "89500 0" on a bottle I bought yesterday at my local photo shop. No clue how old it is, but there wasn't much dust on the boxes.

Sal Santamaura
5-Jan-2006, 19:38
Mr. Ingolf Marzenski of A&O Group, the firm that purchased AgfaPhoto's minilab and chemical business, just informed me that Neutol WA is among the black and white chemicals they will continue to manufacture.

Sal Santamaura
6-Mar-2007, 18:48
Mr. Ingolf Marzenski of A&O Group, the firm that purchased AgfaPhoto's minilab and chemical business, just informed me that Neutol WA is among the black and white chemicals they will continue to manufacture.And for those in the US who would like to purchase some, I just discovered that it's in stock at Freestyle:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_prod.php?cat_id=&pid=458

IanG
2-Apr-2009, 05:12
This is the Formula for Neutol WA published in Foto & Labor, 3/ 1996, page 17, the ratios have been ajusted to compare with Ilford ID-78

Neutol WA

Potassium Sulphite 60 g - this is equivalent to 48 g Sodium Sulphite
Hydroquinone 12 g
Phenidone 0.4 g
Potassium Carbonate 12 g
Potassium Hydroxide 4 g
Potassium Bromide 2.67 g
Water to 1 litre

Ilford ID-78 Warm Tone Developer

Sodium Sulphite 50 g
Hydroquinone 12 g
Phenidone 0.5 g
Sodium Carbonate 62 g
Potassium Bromide 4.5 g
Water to 1 litre

Both - Use 1+3

(Carbonate/Sulphite both anhydrous)

They are pretty much interchangeable, Iford use Potassium Carbonate andSodium Hydroxide in commercial liquid developers in place of Sodium Carbonate. ID-78 was available as a Powder developer in the 1960's. Agfa use Potassium sulphite, Potassium salts tend to give slightly warmer tones compared to Sodium salts.

Ian

Sal Santamaura
2-Apr-2009, 07:58
This is the Formula for Neutol WA published in Foto & Labor, 3/ 1996, page 17, the ratios have been ajusted to compare with Ilford ID-78...Ian, what does "...the ratios have been adjusted..." mean? What was the "unadjusted" formula exactly as published in Foto & Labor, 3/1996? Thanks!

IanG
2-Apr-2009, 09:20
Sol, I divided the concentrate quantities by 3.75 to get a comparison with published Ilford & Kodak formulae, and left out the EDTA Na4.

Here's the formula translated from German:

Neutol WA Concentrate

EDTA Na4 10g
Potassium Sulphite 225 g
Hydroquinone 45 g
Phenidone 1.5 g
Potassium Carbonate 45 g
Potassium Hydroxide 15 g
Potassium Bromide 10 g
Water to 1 litre

Use 1+9 (1+7 - 1+14)

Like Ilford ID-78 it has a good shelf life, both give very similar tones.

Ian

W K Longcor
2-Apr-2009, 10:00
Just somthing to add to the mix ------ AND, I'm going from memory - so take everything I say with a grain of salt --

Back in the early 1960's --Neutol was available from Agfa as a box with two packets of dry chemical, which you mixed together in water. It gave some very nice tones. I was working in a local camera store at the time. One day, the Agfa sales rep. (his name was Sam -- that part of my memory is good -- I don't know why) was in the shop. I told him that I was trying the Neutol in my home darkroom - and liked it very much. He asked me which paper I was using. I gave him a list of papers -- including Agfa Portiga Rapid 118. He let me in on a "secret" -- NEVER throw out the Neutol! When done printing - pour the used developer into a large jug, then from a separate bottle ( with the fresh stuff in it) "top off" the jug of used stuff with fresh. I tried it. After several weeks of printing, the developer was VERY dark - you had to develop by time only ( which was like 4 minutes)- you couldn't really see your print in the tray. I also remember that it got a rather strong odor. BUT, the prints - particularly on the Portriga paper took on the most wonderful warm brown tones! I kept that one jug going for over 4 years - and only dumped it when I moved into a different house.

Now, just how much the liquid concentrate mimics the old powder mix, I do not know. Also, you would have to do your "topping off" from a diluted working strength mix.

I realize that this is probably all a bunch of useless information -- just consider it some photo history.:o

IanG
2-Apr-2009, 12:23
Neutol powder developers were slightly different formulae to the Liquid versions, the WA powder version was Metol based and probably used Sodium Sulphite & Carbonate, it would not have contained Hydroxide.

I last bought WA powder in the mid to late 80's it wasn't quite as Warm-toned as the liquid PQ version which is to be expected.

Ian

W K Longcor
2-Apr-2009, 18:42
Neutol powder developers were slightly different formulae to the Liquid versions, the WA powder version was Metol based and probably used Sodium Sulphite & Carbonate, it would not have contained Hydroxide.

I last bought WA powder in the mid to late 80's it wasn't quite as Warm-toned as the liquid PQ version which is to be expected.

Ian

I remember the powdered variety as having some nice characteristics. Using the "never throw it out" method, it gained a wonderful warm tone image. My memory says even warmer than the liquid -- but then again the papers were very different then -- maybe it was more the paper and it's emulsion than just the developer.

Shen45
3-Apr-2009, 05:47
Would anyone have a Metol powder based Neutol WA formula. I have plenty of Metol and no Phenidone. Or could I substitute about 10 times the Metol for the Phenidone?

Steve

IanG
3-Apr-2009, 11:42
Just look at ID20 (MQ)/ID-62(PQ) and the warm tone variant ID-78.

Replace the Phenidone with 3 grams of Metol, you may need to add a gram or two more of Bromide. That is around 10x :D

Use either formula Neutol WA or ID-78 they give virtually identical results, but as Metol is a fraction colder working you may need to add an extra gram of Potassium Bromide.

Ian

Shen45
3-Apr-2009, 18:06
Thanks Ian for the quick reply. I will try that suggestion and see what happens.

Steve